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Subj: DIY_EFI Digest V1 #195
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The text of your failed mail message follows:
DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, 11 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 195
In this issue:
Jim Conforti, are you out there?
Re: Jim Conforti, are you out there?
Re: GM Mass Airflow Sensor
Re: Bosch ECU Schematics
Bosch Motronic AFM Spring Tension - Further Comments
Re: cypress FPGA tools
GM Mass Airflow Sensor - Donde Esta?
Re: GM Mass Airflow Sensor
Re: Bosch ECU Schematics
Re: GM Mass Airflow Sensor - Donde Esta?
Looking for info on GM ECMs
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the
DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Donald Whisnant <dewhisna at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:05:54 -0400
Subject: Jim Conforti, are you out there?
Jim Conforti... Are you out there on the list? Several other
DIY_EFI members said you might could answer some of my questions.
I've been trying your email address as posted in the archives,
but with no success (it keeps telling me "unknown user")... If
you are out there, please email me...
Donald Whisnant
dewhisna at ix.netcom.com
------------------------------
From: Land Shark <lndshrk at xmission.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 09:04:49 -0600
Subject: Re: Jim Conforti, are you out there?
At 10:05 AM 7/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Jim Conforti... Are you out there on the list?
Sure am .. address is ..
lndshrk at xmission.com ..
Note .. that is LNDSHRK .. as in LAND SHARK
:)
Jim
------------------------------
From: jimmy staton <staton at icon.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 17:02:49 -0500
Subject: Re: GM Mass Airflow Sensor
RABBITT_Andrew at mv8.orbeng.com.au wrote:
>
> >>>I'm curious if anybody has a clue as to the upper (frequency
> output) limit of the currently used GM mass-airflow sensor.<<<
>
> does 9600 Hz make any sense?
the GM manual I have has the freq listed as 30HZ-150HZ unless that has
changed, last 1 I checked was out of an 1982 Firebird and that was
right.
------------------------------
From: michael glidewell <glide at shore.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 18:09:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Bosch ECU Schematics
At 02:31 PM 6/11/96 +0000, you wrote:
>I am looking for Bosch ECU Schematics for the following cars:
>
>BMW 530i, 1978
>Datsun 280Z, 1975-1978
>Datsun/Nissan 280ZX, 1979-1983 (incl. turbo).
>
>If anyone has any schematics for the ECUs for these cars, any or all
>of them, in any format, please let me know. Also, if anyone knows of
>any good source of information on these systems, I'd love to see it.
>
>Thanks.
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>Josh Karnes joshk at tanisys.com
>Renaissance Man http://www.tanisys.com/~joshk/home.htm
>Tanisys Technology http://www.tanisys.com
>Austin, Texas '78 BMW 530i | '72 Datsun 240Z | IZCC #308
>_____________________________________________________________________________
> *** opinions expressed herein are MINE, ALL MINE!! ***
>
Josh: Did you ever find a source for schematics?? I'm looking too.
- ----------------------------------------------
Michael Glidewell Boston, Massachusetts glide at shore.net
KE1CP BMW 528i BMWCCA http://www.shore.net/~glide/
------------------------------
From: Brad Anesi <BANESI at novell.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:28:21 -0600
Subject: Bosch Motronic AFM Spring Tension - Further Comments
Herewith the opinion of Don (ex-Alfa, now Fiat R&D):
The EFI discussion is difficult: one must first know if the system is
analog or digital and to which degree of autoadaptivity is provided.
Example: Fiat uses/has used _many_ executions of Bosch Motronic
alone, many L-Jet, Monotronic, Weber-Marelli, Rochester, Hitachi....
Maybe this will help:
1. Forget that the closed loop O2 sensor function will correct, in the
end, any minor changes upstream. It will, but that does not seem to be
the issue. We talk open loop.
2. Spring tension makes a difference only during _transient_ movement
and will enrichen until steady state, where it has no effect. There is no
effect at WOT as you are already using the longest pulse found in the
look-up table (MAP) for that set of parameters.
3. Remember, electrons are faster than air!
4. The base calibration is not always based on vane position: depends
on system.
5. Even open-loop, later generations use autoadaptivity, which further
permits default corrections for components operating outside their spec.
ranges, within the ROM map.
6. Aside from AFM vs inputs to controller, this signal is further
corrected by rpm, load, temps, etc., always cross-checking table for
correct fuel delivery before the O2 sensor.
7. To see the effects, get a J.C. Whitney A/F checker.
8. In systems with separate ignition controllers, more benefits can be had
by changing the spark map.
9. Significant changes cannot be made by DIY, nor without a dyno.
10. Perceptions and stop-watch times do not always concur.
11. There are other ways of increasing fuel delivery such as raising rail
pressure, larger nozzles, with larger AFM. But the intake runners and
valves have to be sized accordingly.
12. Our experiences with DIY modified EFI systems do not yield
measurable differences.
Conclusion: for DIY, it seems more cost effective to use carburetors and
a modern ignition system, leaving original EFI system intact for use later
at resale.
------------------------------
From: Darrell Norquay <dnorquay at awinc.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 96 21:40 PDT
Subject: Re: cypress FPGA tools
At 01:20 PM 7/8/96 CDT, Steve Ravet wrote:
>I just got v4.0 of the VHDL compiler. I haven't used it much, but it
>appears to be.... A VHDL compiler. :-) It supports all the Cypress
>chips, including PALs, CPLDs, and FPGAs. I think you need additional
>software to really do your own FPGAs, though (like floorplanning and timing
>analysis). But for CPLDs it's a complete package including simulator.
Don't you mean Warp2? Warp4 is the full enchilada, timing simulator and
all, and it sells for US$5000! I know, 'cause I just took a Cypress VHDL
seminar last week, and got a copy of Warp2, along with a CD full of
libraries, Warp2 for several platforms including the MAC and Sun, the VHDL
text, and a 1 day intensive VHDL course for CDN$99.
>The download cable/software wasn't available at the time, although it
>should be now. I need to call back and see. The download cable/software
>works with all of the Cypress "ISR" chips (in system reprogrammable).
The guys at the seminar gave me the impression that they haven't released
their ISP devices yet, due out in August, I think. They didn't mention the
download cable + software. Warp2 just generates JEDEC files which you need
a pricey device programmer to use.
>I'd recommend this package to anyone interested, esp. since the price is
>reasonable. It was about $116 US with shipping, and it includes a textbook
>published by Addison Wesley about VHDL on programmable logic. The download
>software and cable is another $100, and only runs on PC type platforms.
>The WARP software itself is available for PCs or several workstations.
Yeah, I'd second that, especially if ya got a buddy with a programmer like I
do. Now I just have to sit down and really get into the VHDL coding, which
may take a while... Should save a bagfull of glue logic on my next 'HC11
project.
regards
dn
------------------------------
From: Darrell Norquay <dnorquay at awinc.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 96 21:40 PDT
Subject: GM Mass Airflow Sensor - Donde Esta?
Yo All:
I'm frantically (well, not really frantic yet) trying to locate part
numbers, years, makes, and models of GM's that used the frequency output MAF
sensors. I'm trying to scare one up out of a boneyard, so far no luck. The
bigger the list I can come up with, the better my chances of finding one.
Some of the models I've tried are:
94-96 Camaro
96 Vortech engines
84-85 Buick Turbo 3.8L V6
Some of these are newer vehicles, they are scarce in the local boneyards, as
are the Turbo units. Something mid-80'ish would be nice. Someone just
mentioned the 82 Firebird as having this unit, but no luck there either. I
assume from recent threads on this list that this is relatively common in
GM's, I was under the impression that GM's mostly used analog output MAF's.
If you can't supply model info directly, any reference materials which
supply the info or aftermarket replacement PN's would also be greatly
appreciated.
regards
dn
BTW, I'm not really limited to GM's, anything suitable for a 300-400HP 350
cu in V8 (500-700 CFM flow capability) would work. Small V6's or 4 cyl
units probably would not be suitable.
------------------------------
From: John Dammeyer <johnd at islandnet.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 96 23:33 PDT
Subject: Re: GM Mass Airflow Sensor
At 05:02 PM 10/07/1996 -0500, you wrote:
>RABBITT_Andrew at mv8.orbeng.com.au wrote:
>>
>> >>>I'm curious if anybody has a clue as to the upper (frequency
>> output) limit of the currently used GM mass-airflow sensor.<<<
>>
>> does 9600 Hz make any sense?
>
>the GM manual I have has the freq listed as 30HZ-150HZ unless that has
>changed, last 1 I checked was out of an 1982 Firebird and that was
>right.
I always thought that a Mass Flow Sensor used a hot wire type aneomometer
which would just result in a voltage output to be measured by an A/D
convertor. What type puts out a frequency?
Thanks,
John.
Pioneers are the ones, face down in the mud,
with arrows in their backs.
Automation Artisans Inc. Ph. 604-544-4950
6468 Loganberry Place Fax 604-544-4954
Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 7E6
------------------------------
From: John Dammeyer <johnd at islandnet.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 96 23:33 PDT
Subject: Re: Bosch ECU Schematics
At 06:09 PM 10/07/1996 -0400, you wrote:
>At 02:31 PM 6/11/96 +0000, you wrote:
>>I am looking for Bosch ECU Schematics for the following cars:
>>
>>BMW 530i, 1978
>>Datsun 280Z, 1975-1978
>>Datsun/Nissan 280ZX, 1979-1983 (incl. turbo).
>>
>>If anyone has any schematics for the ECUs for these cars, any or all
>>of them, in any format, please let me know. Also, if anyone knows of
>>any good source of information on these systems, I'd love to see it.
>>
As I understand it the Bosch uses the CAN bus for communications. Your
first step in reverse engineering or even monitoring the system would be to
determine which two wires make up RT+ and RT-. Then attach a suitable CAN
card monitor and eavesdrop. Coupled with logging other real time info such
as engine RPM there is a likelyhood that you would be able to determine
which messages say what. But.... other than reporting some sort of status
or replacing completely a particular module I'm not sure what you'd do with it.
John.
Pioneers are the ones, face down in the mud,
with arrows in their backs.
Automation Artisans Inc. Ph. 604-544-4950
6468 Loganberry Place Fax 604-544-4954
Victoria BC CANADA V8Z 7E6
------------------------------
From: peter paul fenske <pfenske at direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 22:41:03 -0700
Subject: Re: GM Mass Airflow Sensor - Donde Esta?
>
>regards
>dn
>
>BTW, I'm not really limited to GM's, anything suitable for a 300-400HP 350
>cu in V8 (500-700 CFM flow capability) would work. Small V6's or 4 cyl
>units probably would not be suitable.
>
>
>**************************************************************************
Hi:
Try fords hitachi based MAF. I believe they have a var freq output good
to about 300 HP. Stocks are cheap. And aftermarket in 200$ range. Hp good
to 400.
GL: peter
------------------------------
From: "Oliver Scholz" <SOZ at iis.fhg.de>
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:55:06 +0200
Subject: Looking for info on GM ECMs
Hello group,
I am new to this list, and I hope to gain useful information
from it and maybe provide some as well.
I am looking for information on GM ECUs used in the
Pontiac Fiero. As far as I know there are 3 different ECUs used:
* one for the 1985-1988 V6
* one for the 1984-1986 L4
* one for the 1987/1988 L4 with DIS
Does anyone have information on the datastream generated by these?
I would be particularly interested in the 1987/88 datastream?
I am also curious as to the content of the PROM. Does anyone know
what is in those and at what locations?
Thank you.
Best regards,
- -Oliver
------------------------------
End of DIY_EFI Digest V1 #195
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