Reality of Fuel Consumption

[barry coleman]

Tom,
   I didn't mean to strike a chord, it was just that what you described 
sounded VERY familiar. I've worked on these systems for several years 
now and they are as easy as a carb to work on.  I agree with you in 
that, I don't like the idea of using the General's (GM, not that five 
letter swear word) hardware, but then that is why we are on the EEC-IV 
list.  Ford couldn't make a TBI system to save its life, I'm just glad 
that they did an good job on the EEC-IV (if only they were a little more 
open about it).    

>  How easy are these systems to modify to different
>  engines and then to program/re-program ??  And then what
>  kinda bucks are we talking ??

      The T-body could be made to bolt to just about any carb intake by 
redrilling the bolt holes in the intake, or a simple spacer.  The rest 
of the system just bolts to the intake or firewall.  The system runs off 
of low (@14psi) fuel pressure (lines go directly to T-body), the PROM is 
removable and well documented (as compared to the EEC).  
      The Turbo Regal link that was mentioned on the list a few days ago 
had a complete system to modify the GM computer's PROM for around 
$350-400.  I know that they are  TPI computers, but then how much 
different could they be...it could only be easier to modify TBI PROMs. A 
net search I know would bring up even better links. Sorry that I don't 
have more info, but then I've just worked on them.  
     I agree that pre-burnt chips are kind of like consulting a psycic, 
but for anyone who didn't want to spend the time/effort burning the 
chips...  Not to mention the quality of a chip depends on the 
description given of the setup.  
     I COMPLETELY agree with you in that an aftermarket TBI EFI system  
should cost around $300.  The kit should consist of a modified ECM, 
software, ALDL cable and TB adapter (all else would be stock GM).  Go to 
Edelbrock's site, and check out their TB EFI.  Then go and look at a GM 
setup  (IDENTICAL! , save that the ECM has a few pots).   



>  I'm real leery of 'chips'  ....  how can someone make
>  a chip for my app that's perzact ??  Seems to me that
>  the best they can do is make a best guess and then intentionally
> err on the conservative side as there's too many variables
>  to consider.  And then, what if you change tire sizes or
>  diff ratio or intake or exhaust or cam or .....  do you
>  gotta buy a new chip ??
>
>  And then, you're talking chevy .... how's that going to
> retrofit to a 'real' car (read FORD  8^)   If this is
>  a TBI, then *should* be no prob .... but if it's TPI
>  seems to me we're in deep doo-doo.

>  where's this place on the web that has programmers for
>  *any* price ... do they give out necessary info to make
>  major changes ??
>
>  What I'd love to see (wouldn't we all) is a flexible,
>  expandable system that has a hand-held, CHEAP programmer
>  that will do a bang-up job and then a port for a lap-top
>  for those that want that extra 1/100 hp and .05 mpg  ;-)
>
>  I'd think a reasonable price for a complete efi system
>  using TBI would be $300 -- including a hand-held analyzer/
>  controller that works sorta like the old dwell/tach test
>  sets except with the ability to vary some basic parameters
>  (e.g. fuel vs TPS, MAP and RPM) with a readout showing how
>  much correction was being made to correct to EGO stoich
>   -- and if it was out of range (and which way).  This would
>  yield a fantastic device that would satisfy virtually all
>  our demands (I'll bet).  The "kit" would have some nomograms
>  that would allow the selection of injector and TB sizes before
>  the purchase.  The addition of MAF would make it more self-tuning
>  but I think it would be totally unnecessary as one wouldn't
>  need MAF if the SD system were easy enough to program.
>
>  With such a system as above, one could install it on
>  his standard carb-style manifold or even on a TPI manifold,
>  since the basic tuning parameters wouldn't change (i.e.
>  the fuel vs. RPM, TPS, MAP, etc).  That way, if one already
>  had TPI he could still use this system.  With what I'm
>  suggesting, one could "probably" pass all emissions tests
>  **and** have a bad motor-scooter at the same time (probably
>  a w*t dream).   
>
>  Tom Cloud
 


Sorry for such a long winded reply guys.  

Barry Coleman        a 351C w/SEFI...why didn't Ford think of that? 
fvoho at hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com