8061 / 8063 op-codes

[Tom Cloud]

 I wrote:
>>
>> I've "found" a list of op-codes for the 8063.  The processor
>> in the eec-iv is supposed to be an 8061 -- don't know the
>> difference --- anybody out there know ?
>>
>> actually, what I have are mnemonics only, no definitions
>> or machine code -- could use some help here ......

 and then Mike wrote:

>
>Um, the 8063 never made it to production as far as I know. Somebody
>snuck that info out of Intel(Toshiba/Motorola) or Ford. I'd be a bit
>wary of using information like that. Ford thought I was and it cost me a
>buttload of money to prove I wasn't. They watch these lists.

to which I respond:

 - first, it is my understanding that the newer Ford ECM's now use
the 8063 instead of the 8061

  (I've also noticed that the mnemonics for the 8061/3 are a good
   bit different from the 8096; the interrupt vectors are different;
   and I understand the pinouts and port designators are different)

 - second, the info I posted I found by being very persistent.
If someone snuck it out of wherever, I didn't do it and I don't
know about it

 - third, I'm not looking to compete or profit by any of this
information ..... I think all or most of us already OWN these
units and we just want to know how they work !!

 - fourth, mnemonics can be copyrighted, but that doesn't
mean that they can't be published -- I just can't use them
to build my own processor (besides, the mnemonics are so
standard, I don't see how they could even be copyrighted,
and "trade secrets" aren't covered by any patent, copyright
or trademark protections)

 - in the same vein as the above, the "Harvard architecture"
can't be copyrighted or patented -- it is the standard architecture
we are familiar with for the confuzers of today -- op-codes,
registers, memory, addressing modes, etc

 - you can't patent or copyright op-codes (i.e. numbers) -- that's
how AMD is able to make the 80486 but can't make a "Pentium"

 - you can't be prevented from "reverse engineering" something
you own (and I don't know the current status of the legal
maneuver that says you're only "leasing" something you bought,
but I suspect it's been thrown out by the courts)

 - you CAN stop someone from using your ideas (that you've
copyrighted, trademarked or patented) "against" you or to
make a profit -- i.e., as I understand, I could build
a copy of an eec-iv or a macintosh computer for myself if
I wanted to (I could not "copy" their software, however,
as it's covered by copyrights -- but if its modified 20% or
more I can)

 - BTW, are you familiar with "Sams PhotoFacts"??  Back in the
forties and fifties, all electronics mfgrs kept their schematics
secret, so no one could work on anything.  Howard W. Sam (think
that was his name) started taking radios and TV sets and reverse
engineering the schematics, parts lists and signal levels so
they could be worked on.  He sold those (still does) to repair
shops.  Don't know if he got sued, but he probably did.  Obviously,
he must've won!  Obviously, it can't be illegal to reverse
engineer schematics (or op-codes) for that matter.  I know
that some companies try to say that it's illegal to reverse
engineer their software -- even put that in their license
agreements, but I don't believe it's enforcable (???).


        **********************

 - and lastly, all the above (and any following) statements
are mine alone and are probably a bunch of uninformed crap  ;-)

        **********************


[I understand why Ford hides its code, but I don't understand
why they keep the data about the hardware secret.  They could
make quite a bundle with people buying eec units to run
their vehicle's engine (why not make them usable as an after-market
sort-of add-on??>) -- and even then, if people cracked
their code, the market shows that that doesn't necessarily
hurt them.  Yeah, it gives the competition access to their
investment in development, but I'll bet the competition
already has their code, and vice-versa.  I can get schematics
for the radio and I can get data on virtually everything
else on the car, so why not the ecu?  How is revealing ALL
the details of the eec going to impact Ford at all?  I guarantee
you GM and the other competitors already have all the data
about it they want -- this is not a new product we're trying
to figure out.  If we're successful, I think it'd actually
make Ford some money (though an insignificant amount in
comparison to their other sales).]

Tom Cloud <cloud at peaches.ph.utexas.edu>