Radiator Cap--flow rate through radiator

Michael Skolones michaels at telerobot.com
Wed Oct 15 20:53:47 GMT 1997


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Yes, I agree with you that the temperature differential at the radiator is an 
important consideration.  As another reader pointed out, a full-fledged analysis
of the cooling system is a major undertaking, but without it we run the risk of 
ignoring important details; oversimplification can lead to irrelevant arguments.

However, my point may be better illustrated by considering the following 
simplified system.  Suppose, for the sake of argument of course, that our model 
system consists of an engine block and an infinite supply of coolant at some 
temperature T0, which is being pushed through the engine block at some rate V/t.
 If we assume a steady-state condition (T of block constant, higher than T0), 
then the coolant will remove the thermal energy generated by the combustion at a
steady rate, and the coolant temperature will be some constant value Tf as it 
leaves the block.

Now consider increasing the flow rate.  A given volume of water passing through 
the block will now take in less thermal energy than the same volume of water 
passing through at the slower rate, but since more water flows through per unit 
time the effect will be the same to first order.  A closer look will show that 
the steady-state temperature of the block will be slightly lower if the initial 
coolant temp is the same, but the flow rate is increased.  This is because the 
rate of heat flow from the block into the water is proportional to the logarithm
of the difference of their temperatures; since the average temperature of the 
fast moving water within the block is lower than the average temperature of the 
slow moving water within the block, the block-water temperature difference will 
be less for the same  amount of heat removed.  This makes sense if you consider 
the extremes: as flow goes to zero, clearly the block temperature will rise; as 
we increase flow from zero, the block temperature will drop.

My point here is that the earlier claim that "fast moving water doesn't have 
enough time to soak up the heat" is nonsense.  

As for a real block-thermostat-radiator system, that is much more complicated. 
If we eliminate the thermostat (I haven't decided if this makes it simpler to 
analyze or not), the temperature of the coolant coming out of the radiator is a 
function of the coolant temperature when it enters the radiator, and of the 
efficiency of the radiator.  The radiator efficiency depends on the surface area
and the temperature difference between the coolant and the environment.  For a 
fixed size radiator, peak efficiency is probably found at some particular 
temperature (healthy dose of conjecture here), and so factory cooling systems 
are designed to operate properly with a chosen temperature thermostat, flow rate
and radiator size.

I don't think B&B would sell so many high-volume water pumps for hot-rod Chevy 
350's if they weren't necessary.  Typically when you increase the mechanical 
power output of an engine the thermal ouput increases as well, and so bigger 
radiators and higher-volume water pumps are called for.

mike skolones



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Radiator Cap--flow rate through radiator
Author:  diy_efi at coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu at Internet
Date:    10/15/97 10:40 AM


Don't forget that the amount of heat transfer (both in and out) are 
somewhat dependant on differential temperature.  The greater the 
temperature differential between radiator temperature and ambient, the 
larger the temperature drop within the radiator.  Water moving too fast 
will not sink up as much heat in the heat developing portions of the 
engine AND will not cause as high a temperature differential in the 
radiator (between radiator and ambient), resulting in higher engine 
temperatures, even when the coolant temperature reading is lower.
     
I once had an MG that ran at it's coolest (per the temperature gauge) 
when there was no water in the radiator.  Don't get caught up in coolant 
temperature readings as the sole source of information.
     
     
> ----------
> From:         michaels at telerobot.com[SMTP:michaels at telerobot.com] 
> Sent:         Tuesday, October 14, 1997 10:47 AM
> To:   diy_efi at coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu
> Subject:      Re[2]: Radiator Cap--flow rate through radiator 
> 
> <<File: RFC822 message headers.txt>> 
>      
> 
> 
> ______________________________ Reply Separator 
> _________________________________
> Subject: Re: Radiator Cap
> Author:  diy_efi at coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu at Internet 
> Date:    10/13/97 8:24 PM
> 
> 
> There's a problem with the argument below.  If the water is in contact 
> with the 
> block long enough to pick up some thermal energy (and no matter how 
> small the 
> time of contact is, there _will_ be a thermal transfer if there is a 
> difference 
> in temperature), then it will be in contact with the radiator fins 
> long enough 
> to get rid of the same amount of thermal energy, provided the radiator 
> is 
> properly designed.  Obviously if the radiator is too small, or 
> clogged, or 
> bypassed, or what-have-you, then the temperature of the water will 
> continue to 
> rise as time goes by.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not only does it not absorb enough heat from the engine, it goes 
> through 
> the rad so fast it doesn't release the heat either. Getting the 
> coolant 
> up to a high enough temp  gets the temp difference at the rad higher, 
> allowing the rad to shed more calories or BTUs. This effectively
> removes 
> more heat, even if the operating temp is a bit higher. I know it does 
> not make a lot of sense, but without a restrictor in an engine running 
> 
> without a stat, overheating of the valve area, for instance, with 
> resulting head cracks and/or detonation can be a real problem.
> -- 
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> Remove the R from E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! 
> It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of 
> turkeys-- or stuffed with too much Turkey!! Happy Thanksgiving 
> to all our Canadian Friends!!!!
> 
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Subject: RE: Re[2]: Radiator Cap--flow rate through radiator
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