TBI, TPI, Radical Engines, (Todd)
Todd....!!
atc347 at c-com.net
Tue Oct 26 14:49:59 GMT 1999
Have a question that may be a bit tangent to the main topic goal of this
list but here goes anywho...
Anyone know the TENSILE, SHEAR, and COMPRESSION strength of an average
forged connecting rod? Say for a big block?
This is for a twin turbo B.B. EFI project.... for calculating the limit
of torque application to the rod, rod cap, and rod bolts before
failure...
Piston strength specs are already acquired.
Cyl wall strength (thickness and material makeup) is last on the list to
calc out.
Will be using minimum strength spec, of course, to be safe rather than
sorry when it comes down to the nitty gritty(REAL LIFE HAMMER TIME)...
Thnx for any input!!
Sincerely!,
Todd....
P.S. - FRED B., what caused your T.T. EFI B.B. Mopar B block(Stroker 400
- 4.34? bore X 3.75 stroke) to expire? I don't remember the specifics?
Was it just a lean condition causing critical predetonation leading to
holes in the pistons or cracked rings? or did ya actually throw(i.e.
break!?) a forged Mopar connecting rod? or what?
Just awonderin.....
-----------
Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
>
> Todd and others interested in long rambling messages :)
>
> Well, you said "Money is the issue here", which I'd take to mean "not to
> expensive". It all depends on what you consider expensive, and do you
> factor in your time to make it work.
>
> Before I go through all this, I will say that its CHEAPER and FASTER to
> skip EFI and run your engine (at least as we discussed it) with a
> turbo'd predator carb, or a suitable well-adjusted Holley, etc. Out of
> the box you produce power, its easy(er) to fabricate parts, and a
> screwdriver can adjust things to make it run right.
>
> If you are dead set on EFI, you might consider the Holley or Edelbrock
> TBI system upon your own manifold, because mechanically its easier to
> attach to your twin-turbo mopar stroker engine. Trust me on that one
> :) Almost plug and play, and the aftermarket EFI stuff is adjustable
> with kludgy software that gives you a basic map to start the engine
> with. From there you can tweek until your fingertips are sore. If you
> insist on going the TPI GM ECM fangle on your twin turbo mopar stroker,
> consider that a junkyard EFI system might run you about 300-350 bucks by
> the time you include research, gaskets, parts, wiring changes,
> documentation, dyno test time, gas, travel, etc. TBI or not. How much
> is your time worth, and will you absolutely succeed? True, Bruce and
> the Cone Shaped Hat Committee have done tremendous research and
> documented tons of stuff, TONS! But still, its their work, you can't
> read their minds, and are ya gonna get it right the first time? With
> twin-turbos like we've been talking offline? On a Mopar stroker
> engine? Maybe, maybe not. There are a lot of variables here. Its a
> lot more difficult than it seems, so I found out. While I didn't expect
> it to be a "snap", it wasn't that far from "this sucks and I wanna kick
> the wall 200 times" either!
>
> The main advantage of the Holley 4D/4DI and other EFI systems of any
> flavour, is the likelihood of it working (more or less) out of the box
> is singificantly higher than with a junkyard system, unless its a
> straight swap - meaning Chevy TBI from a 350cid to a carb'd 350cid
> engine, tossing the carb of course. The more intricate you make your
> conversion, the more time, more dollars, and more screaming it will take
> to get it going. You're doing what we did, twin turbo EFI mopar stroker
> "B" block, so its not really a straight swap :) No my friend, not at
> all :) I've outlined below more or less what it cost me. There were
> many hours spent headscratching as well as calling suppliers and chasing
> parts and details, which I did not include below. Also, a lot of
> incidentals listed below I lumped together, like "sandblast intake" also
> means "sandblast throttle bodies, intake, bungs, brackets, etc". Didn't
> see the need to make a 5000 line post when in fact a 4000 line post
> would do ::smile::
>
> Anyhoo...
>
> For our SyTy ECM (7749) to Mopar twin-turbo, we spent an enormous amount
> of time on the project, didn't get it running right, and still blew it
> up. Take II coming soon with the 400cid mopar "B", non stroked, non
> turbo'd to start. Hours are manhours, not necessarily my own. "Expert"
> friends (at least compared to me) were very much involved. Costs
> indicate something was purchased, either the item itself, or maybe
> gasket goo, brackets, bolts, etc. All the blockwork and machining was
> done at the shop, by my friends, who have a clue and did me a HUGE
> favor. Expect machining costs if your engine needs it and you don't
> have access to friends with a lot of expensive engine machining toys
> sitting around. I know a ton of stuff is missing, as usual, half my
> notes are here and half my notes are floating around the body shop. If
> you work full time, consider that you may or may not have oh, about 15
> hours a week to mess around with this? That would be about 15-16 weeks
> from start to finish, and if you had the luck we had, it won't run, but
> blow up instead ::grin:: Hopefully for you, you won't have access to a
> free defective dyno with moronic operator (me!).
>
> Totals EFI 85 hours $ 380
> Totals Non-EFI 154 hours $2015
> TOTALS ALL 239 hours $2395
>
> <--- non-interested parties of details press delete here --->
>
> Step 1. - Research and Part Collection
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Research 383/400 stroker 25 hours $ 0
> Obtain 383 engine 7 hours $ 350
> Obtain Streetmaster 383 Intake 2 hours $ 25
> Determine ECM Choices 5 hours $ 0
> Research Wiring Harness Issue 11 hours $ 0
> Pull 1227749 out of 87 olds 1 hour $ 0
> Pull Wiring Harness from same 3 hours $ 0
> Pull GM Sensors, two throttles 2 hours $ 0
> Buy Harness & ECM 0 hours $ 75
> Buy Sensors/Throttles 0 hours $ 50
> Pull Ford Injectors (2 tbirds) 1 hours $ 0
> Buy Injectors 0 hours $ 60
> -----------------------------------------------------
> TOTALS STEP 1 57 hours $ 560
>
> Step 2. - EFI Configuration
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Rewire wiring harness for syty 20 hours $ 0
> Stick in Ford Inj Connectors 2 hours $ 0
> Buy Aluminum Rod for Inj Bungs 1 hours $ 25
> Buy www.durafix.com 0 hours $ 35
> Mill Intake for Inj Bungs 2 hours $ 0
> Test fit inj bungs, repeat above 1 hours $ 0
> Measure, make, test fuel rails 4 hours $ 0
> Milling machine bit 0 hours $ 15
> Braze inj bungs, fuel rails 4 hours $ 0
> Sandblast intake w/bungs 1 hours $ 20
> Paint aluminum intake 1 hours $ 15
> -----------------------------------------------------
> TOTALS STEP 2 36 hours $ 110
>
> Step 3. - Engine Assembly
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Disassemble Engine 3 hours $ 0
> All Block Machine Work 11 hours $ 0
> Port Heads 10 hours $ 0
> Two dremel tips 0 hours $ 10
> Turn Down 440 crank 4 hours $ 0
> Buy 440 rods (used) 9 hours $ 120
> Wiseco Pistons (measure/buy) 5 hours $ 640
> New Oil Pump, etc 1 hours $ 135
> RV Cam 0 hours $ 80
> New Bearings, etc 2 hours $ 80
> Install Cam, assemble engine 12 hours $ 0
> Gasket Set 0 hours $ 65
> -----------------------------------------------------
> TOTALS STEP 3 48 hours $1130
>
> Step 4 - Turbocharging
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Pull Two TO3 turbos 3 hours $ 150
> Fabricate Stainless Headers 22 hours $ 120
> Fabricate Intake Plenum 5 hours $ 35
> Pull Volvo Intercooler 1 hours $ 40
> Intercooler into Plenum 3 hours $ 0
> Igloo cooler, bilge pump, hoses 3 hours $ 0
> Rebuild Turbos 11 hours $ 120
> -----------------------------------------------------
> TOTALS STEP 4 48 hours $ 465
>
> Step 5. - Final Stages, Testing
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Assemble Intake to Engine 1 hours $ 0
> Drive to Dyno location 2 hours $ 10
> Mount Engine on Dyno 1 hours $ 0
> Fill Dyno Fuel Tank 0 hours $ 45
> Test Dyno Operations 1 hours $ 0
> Install headers/turbos/hoses 2 hours $ 0
> Attach wiring harness & sensors 5 hours $ 50
> Test 1 (no start) 1 hours $ 0
> Test 2 (no start) 1 hours $ 0
> Test 3 (sputter) 1 hours $ 0
> Play with Sy/Ty Code 3 hours $ 0
> Test 4 (worse sputter) 1 hours $ 0
> Replace Dyno Throttle cbl 1 hours $ 0
> Test 5 (start, runs rough) 1 hours $ 0
> Install Wieland tunnel Ram 1 hours $ 0
> Install two Predator carbs 1 hours $ 0
> Fabricate "Y" throttle cbl 1 hours $ 0
> Fabricate new Plenum 4 hours $ 25
> Install, test new plenum 1 hours $ 0
> Test 6 1 hours $ 0
> Run motor 1900 RPM 2 hours $ 0
> Replace weiland/carbs w/efi 3 hours $ 0
> Test 7 (runs rough) 1 hours $ 0
> Play with Sy/Ty Code 3 hours $ 0
> Test 8 (runs rough) 1 hours $ 0
> Play with Sy/Ty Code 3 hours $ 0
> Test 9 (runs rough) 1 hours $ 0
> Play with Sy/Ty Code 3 hours $ 0
> Install Wieland tunnel Ram 1 hours $ 0
> Install two Predator carbs 1 hours $ 0
> FULL WOT TEST 1 hours $ 0
> -----------------------------------------------------
> TOTALS STEP 5 50 hours $ 130
>
> Totals EFI 85 hours $ 380
> Totals Non-EFI 154 hours $2015
> TOTALS ALL 239 hours $2395
>
> --
>
> Frederic Breitwieser
> Xephic Technology
> 769 Sylvan Ave #9
> Bridgeport CT 06606
>
> Tele: (203) 372-2707
> Fax: (603) 372-1147
> Web: http://xephic.dynip.com/
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