Smartcoils & other ignition questions

[James Ballenger]

	The old GM "HEI" system that uses a distributor has enourmous
aftermarket support and could be used as such.  You could also use a waste
spark coil and ground one side to do this (if you only wanted one spark).  I
think Rx-7 just has a dumb ignitor, for which you can also find a Bosch
solution and run.  I was also looking into mitusbishi for a while, their
setup is pretty nice from some turbo Galant's and Eclipses.  They appear to
have dumb ignitors matched (but sold separately) with some pretty small but
powerful coils which should do the same thing.

James Ballenger

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
>Behalf Of Bob Wooten
>Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:00 PM
>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subject: RE: Smartcoils & other ignition questions
>
>
>thanks James,
>
>is there a Coil that is similar to the CNP for GM that does 
>not have any
>smarts to it.  just charge it up, drop it to ground & let it 
>rip?  i was
>hoping for something that has a male post so that i can just 
>plug it into
>the existing wires & watch for smoke.  sounds like some of the 
>import cars
>have this (RX7 etc).
>
>Bob Wooten
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: James Ballenger <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
>> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>> Date: 1/15/01 1:38:47 AM
>> Subject: RE: Smartcoils & other ignition questions
>>
>> 	I think the reference is to the new denso coils by GM.  
>I have seen
>> them on some newer apps like suburbans and I think they have 
>been going on
>> vettes for a little while and are now on fbirds and camaros. 
> As far as I
>> can tell they are phasing out the waste spark system.  On 
>this note, I
>only
>> have 2 output channels and 4 cylinders to fire with my 
>Haltech and opted
>to
>> go with some Bosch smart ignitors and GM waste spark 
>coils... WOAH! they
>are
>> powerful compared to the Honda setup.  You could almost tig weld with
>these
>> things.  If I had 4 output channels and didn't have any 
>dwell worries, I
>> would go with the GM Denso coils which have the ignitors 
>built into each
>> coil but I think they are dumb ignitors.
>> 
>> James Ballenger
>> 
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
>> >Behalf Of Bob Wooten
>> >Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 11:20 PM
>> >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> >Subject: Re: Smartcoils & other ignition questions
>> >
>> >
>> >So, my question here is, what coil was Gar talking about?  It 
>> >appears that
>> >this is the LS1 coil, but it was not totally clear to me.  if 
>> >this is the
>> >case then what does smart coil actually mean?  if that means 
>> >coil & driver,
>> >great, go ahead make my life easy.  if not?????  when he said 
>> >"next year"
>> >does that mean model year 2001?  if so are they on the new big 
>> >block trucks
>> >(anyone here work for GM)?  
>> >
>> >thanks 
>> >Bob 
>> >
>> >
>> >> [Original Message]
>> >> From: Jurgen Hartwig <jhartwig at midsouth.rr.com>
>> >> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>> >> Date: 1/13/01 11:23:00 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: Smartcoils & other ignition questions
>> >>
>> >> > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "smartcoils". I'm 
>> >familiar with a
>> >> > setup for the GM V6 that has the module with three wasted 
>> >spark coils
>> >> > bolted directly on top of it. The latest LS-1 V8 has one 
>> >coil per plug,
>> >> > with the coil mounted directly at the spark plug. These 
>> >are not wasted
>> >> > spark, however, requiring eight coils and coil drivers.
>> >> 
>> >> Here's an excerpt of a past post, dated 29 May 1998, by Gar:
>> >> 
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> Oh Man, you don't know the half of it!! A guy in our 
>> >Aviation group that
>> >> works in a GM lab sent me one of these off a decommissioned test
>> >> vehicle, and they are NOT mere IGN coils, they're complete 
>> >single-coil
>> >> IGN "systems". They contain ALL the electronics for dwell control,
>> >> current limiting, etc etc. These coils are DIRECTLY run from the
>> >> ECM/PCM. There is NO module. They have 4 terminals (plus the HV
>> >> terminal, that uses these ratchet style terminals I was 
>tellin bout
>> >> yesterday), two for Bat Gnd, and Bat +12V, and the other 
>two are the
>> >> digital EST signal and it's low-noise gnd return. Not usable 
>> >for ION as
>> >> a transformer-type coil, cuz you cain't get to either the 
>primary or
>> >> secondary on these puppies, but still a VERY elegant 
>setup, indeed.
>> >> That ain't all. The biggest shock is yet to come. Brace 
>> >yerself. They're
>> >> actually CHEAP (and nice and light, too). I couldn't believe 
>> >it when I
>> >> went to check them out further. The GM parts counter LIST 
>> >price is $41
>> >> for each "smart coil", and EVEN the harness for tying four of them
>> >> together is reasonable, list price of $62. You get 4 
>> >connectors for the
>> >> 4 coils, and another larger connector. Not a bad price for 4 GM
>> >> connectors and pigtails (if you decided you couldn't use the 
>> >harness as
>> >> is), at the very least, and you might even be able to get 
>the bigger
>> >> connector from Packard! The shorty coil wires (yes, these 
>DON'T squat
>> >> ontop the coils) have them real nice connectors I mentioned, 
>> >and they as
>> >> well are pretty reasonable, at $11 ea list. My GM pal who 
>must remain
>> >> anonymous says you'll see these exact same LS-1 smartCoils 
>> >appearing on
>> >> all the big block truck and bus engines next year! That's what my
>> >> samples came off of, NOT LS-1 engines. Heh.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> 
>> >> The ones I looked up for the Camaro do indeed have spark 
>> >plug wires, so
>> >> they are not coil on spark plug.  Additionally, since these 
>> >have igniters
>> >> onboard, there is no need for any boxes.  What I am trying 
>> >to determine is
>> >> if my Wolf 3D setup will directly drive two "smart coils" in 
>> >waste spark
>> >> fashion.  The Wolf system cannot do direct ignition, which 
>> >really isn't a
>> >> big deal for me having only a 4 cylinder engine.  I need to 
>> >wait until
>> >> after the holiday to get in touch with Wolf EMS.  I just 
>> >wanted to throw
>> >> out an email to see if anyone has any direct experience with 
>> >these coils.
>> >> 
>> >> My second option is to use dual post coils and igniters 
>from an RX-7.
>> >> They are roughly $30-50US each used and have igniters 
>> >beneath each coil.
>> >> 
>> >> With either setup, I'm not looking at more than $150, and in 
>> >my opinion,
>> >> this package is relatively inexpensive upgrade to simple 
>waste spark
>> >> ignition.
>> >> 
>> >> To anyone who cares, I picked up my Wolf 3D setup for $645US 
>> >used, and it
>> >> uses plain vanilla GM sensors and can be triggered by a 
>> >simple Ford Escort
>> >> magnetic sensor ($18 from NAPA).  With some creativity, I'll 
>> >keep costs
>> >> below $1000, and be able to go with forced induction in the 
>> >near future.
>> >> I just don't have the brute knowledge to cobble together a 
>> >GM setup, so I
>> >> had to trade money for knowledge.
>> >> 
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Jay
>> >> 
>> >>
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>> >> 
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--- Bob Wooten
>> >--- r71chevy at earthlink.net
>> >--- www.r71camaro.homestead.com 
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>>
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>
>
>--- Bob Wooten
>--- r71chevy at earthlink.net
>--- www.r71camaro.homestead.com 
>
>
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