DIY_EFI Digest V5 #517
DIY_EFI Digest
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Sat Mar 10 16:46:49 GMT 2001
DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, March 3 2001 Volume 05 : Number 517
In this issue:
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DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, March 3 2001 Volume 05 : Number 516
In this issue:
RE: Igniters => DIS
$175 CO meter?
HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
Re: $175 CO meter?
Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
Re: CNP coils
Re: Basic junkyard TBI swap?
Re: CNP coils
Re: Basic junkyard TBI swap?
Re: CDI systems info wanted
Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
RE: Igniters => DIS
RE: CNP coils
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- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 10:44:01 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: Guy Hill <guy at hts.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Igniters => DIS
Hi
I think the chip you are thinking of is the MC3334.
I've uploaded a datasheet for it onto the ftp site
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/mc3334rev0f.pdf
IIRC Motorola have stopped making them, I managed to find some from a
supplier in France, so there's some stock still about.
HTH
Guy
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Bob Wooten wrote:
> Jurgen,
>
> thanks, if you run across the info on the Motorola chip I would be grateful.
> I would go search their site but what site do I search (Motorola, Cheri or
> ON semi)? if you cant come up with it, I'll get over it. maybe first I
> will check the archives for the CNP or was the reference to DIS & Waste
> spark?
>
> I know it is a bunch of work, but it keeps me out of the bars & stimulates
> the mind. I am running a 383, super ram, 700r4 & a 7730/8D. check it our
> if you'd like www.r71camaro.homestead.com
>
> BW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
> Behalf Of Jurgen Hartwig
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:43 AM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS
>
>
> > I have been working on my little DIS project & am counting on the coil
> > charging for a maximum of 3/4 of a rev of the crank. this being the
> case @
> > idle the circuit would have the longest "on" time @ 23.1 mS @ 650 RPM, &
> the
> > shortest time of 1.5 mS @ 10K RPM (yea like my stroker is going to get
> to
> > 10K, God I hope not or I will put small bits of stroker all over the
> road).
> > think that this would be too long @ idle? I am going to mock it up with
> > LED's @ first & the plug the coils in later & see what happens.
> >
>
> Bob, in two pieces of literature I have (Ford FI manual and Wolf 3D
> manual), coil dwell, or charge time, is between 4ms and 6.5ms. I believe
> those are constant dwell times, and if that is true, then 23.1 ms is
> probably too much. There is a Motorola chip that controls dwell.
> However, I forget the number. I can try to find it if you would like, but
> to be honest, fabricating all this sounds like a lot of time.
>
> >
> > if this does happen to be too long a charge time then maybe I will give
> > James a ring & see if I cant get some of those smart igniters from him &
> > skip the IGBT all together. I would much rather pay the $4 each than
> $30
> > each for igniters though. specially if I goto CNP ($30 X 8 = too much)
> >
>
> Bob, if memory serves, those CNP setups already have igniters on board.
> $240 for CNP, or $20 * 4 for GM coils + $30 * 4 for smart igniters. If
> you check the archives (1999) somebody (Gar or Bruce or perhaps Shannen)
> had done a writeup about CNP. I can't remember if they are TTL. If so,
> they might be your cheapest route. I can't remember what setup you were
> running (what fuel injection system? Aftermarket or OE?)
>
> Jay
>
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>
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:16:06 -0500
From: Rodney_L_Wiggins at keybank.com
Subject: $175 CO meter?
I was paging through a Moss Motors (retailers of all sorts of british car
parts and accessories) Catalog yesterday and saw a digital CO meter listed for
$175.00!
It was a green box with a generic name like "gasalyzer" or something. It has a
3-digit readout of % CO. I Couldn't see from the picture what sort of sampling
tube or sensor is used. It runs on 12 volts but I'm not sure if it can be used
for on-road testing. For this price it has to be garbage--- right? Anyone seen
this and can tell me why I'd be wasting my money to buy one? I'm guessing its
a slightly more durably packaged version of the $35 digital home CO meter I use
to keep an eye on my furnace . If it sounds too good....
Thanks,
Rod
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 05:53:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Carter Shore <clshore at yahoo.com>
Subject: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
Arnaud,
> Do you have any pointers to those schematics so I
can study a bit more?
> The simplicity of the schematics would really get me
started :-)
The links that other list members have forwarded are
representative of the genre.
> My idea was instead of discharging a capacitor into
> the primary of the
> coil, directly feeding the primary of the coil with
> an HV AC power
> supply. This would eliminate the ringing of the
capacitor/coil combo
> and
> spark duration would be as long as one feeds the
coil from the power
> supply. It's just an idea of a Mechanical engineer
and I don't know if
> it can be realized due to the power requirements,
maybe the power
> supply
> would be huge.
Hmmm, let me give you a (somewhat clumsy) mechanical
analogy to what goes on in an ignition system:
Visualize a gearset, with one small gear (the primary
winding of the coil) and one large gear (the secondary
winding of the coil). Now, the speed, RPM, in this
analogy represents current flow. The torque represents
voltage. Work done is the product of RPM and torque
(current and voltage). The gearset transforms RPM and
torque based on the geartooth ratio. The amount of
work in and out of the gearset is equal, minus the
frictional losses.
The gearset has some amount of rotational inertia,
based on the size and material of the gears. This
represents the inductance of the coil. It takes some
force, and time, to get the gearset moving, and once
moving, the gearset contains some energy, such that it
also takes some force and time to slow it back down.
We can therefore multiply a small torque (12Volts)
into a large torque (25,000 Volts) through the
gearset.
Assume that the small gear is attached to a torsional
spring (the capacitor). If we slowly turn the small
gear, it will wind up the spring, storing energy into
it. Assume that we have a catch mechanism to hold the
spring and gearset in this 'cocked' position. We could
measure the amount of torque that the spring was
exerting. But no energy is being transferred through
the gearset, because there is no motion. No torque is
being transferred through the gearset, because of the
catch mechanism. When we release the catch mechanism,
the energy in the spring is released and turns the
gearset rapidly. The gearset is initially at rest, and
is accelerated at a rate determined by the rotational
inertia of the gearset, and the amount of torque that
the spring was initially exerting. Any load attached
to the large gear would see the torque exerted on the
small gear, times the gear ratio.
The spring unwinds, and the gearset accelerates up to
some speed. At some point, the spring is fully
unwound. But the gearset is now in motion, and so it
starts to wind the spring in the opposite direction.
As the spring starts to store this energy, the gearset
slows down. Eventually, the gearset stops. But the
spring is now wound some amount in the other
direction, and this force (torque) now starts to
accelerate the gearset in the opposite direction. This
oscillation will continue, at lower amplitude each
time, until all of the initial energy stored in the
spring when we first wound it up is removed from the
system, either through frictional losses, or by doing
some work into a load attached to the large gear.
This is what we want if the load is an application
that requires very high pulse torque, but low RPM,
such as a concrete drill bit.
This analogy is not perfect, but I hope it gives you a
flavor of how most ignition systems work.
Now, your idea seems to be to somehow apply a high
voltage DC pulse to each spark plug, with pulse width
and timing controlled by an ECU.
Essentially, you wish to establish and maintain a DC
arc accross the spark plug gap, like DC welding unit
does.
I believe that this could be accomplished, but not
with a conventional ignition coil. It would be
expensive, as most DC control devices are rated for
hundreds, not tens of thousands of volts. A very high
frequency (100 Khz ?) gated inverter might do the
trick. After the initial arc is established, perhaps a
lower sustaining voltage to keep the arc alive for the
duration of the pulse?
A greater question is whether or not there would be
any advantage to doing so.
Does anyone know of any research, or have experience
with HV DC spark ignition?
Carter Shore
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:39:39 -0000
From: "Rich M" <rsrich at cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: $175 CO meter?
in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the
unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the shop -
we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing it
to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use.
However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different unit.......
Rich
- - -----Original Message-----
From: Rodney_L_Wiggins at keybank.com <Rodney_L_Wiggins at keybank.com>
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Date: 02 March 2001 13:21
Subject: $175 CO meter?
> I was paging through a Moss Motors (retailers of all sorts of british car
>parts and accessories) Catalog yesterday and saw a digital CO meter listed
for
>$175.00!
>It was a green box with a generic name like "gasalyzer" or something. It
has a
>3-digit readout of % CO. I Couldn't see from the picture what sort of
sampling
>tube or sensor is used. It runs on 12 volts but I'm not sure if it can be
used
>for on-road testing. For this price it has to be garbage--- right? Anyone
seen
>this and can tell me why I'd be wasting my money to buy one? I'm guessing
its
>a slightly more durably packaged version of the $35 digital home CO meter I
use
>to keep an eye on my furnace . If it sounds too good....
>Thanks,
>Rod
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:54:24 +0100
From: Arnaud Westenberg <arnaud at casema.net>
Subject: Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
Carter Shore wrote:
> Hmmm, let me give you a (somewhat clumsy) mechanical
> analogy to what goes on in an ignition system:
<snipping of a great analogy!>
> Now, your idea seems to be to somehow apply a high
> voltage DC pulse to each spark plug, with pulse width
> and timing controlled by an ECU.
No, not DC high voltage but AC high voltage. If the power supply would
be AC this would resamble the capacitor/coil ringing and the spark would
be alternating as well, or am I missing something here? This would
simply use the coil as a power transformer with the sparkplug sparking
as long as the primary of the coil is connected to the power supply.
The time that the power supply feeds the primary of the coil hence the
spark duration could simply be controlled with a controller
dis/connecting the supply.
Hope I've explained it better now :-))
Arnaud
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:41:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Carter Shore <clshore at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
Ahh,
yes I see what you mean now.
Sure, I'd drive the coil with a push-pull DC switching
circuit, an H bridge driver. There are already power
IC's to do this, for controlling DC motors and such.
You would need to calculate the frequency of the
pulses (and perhaps still use one of those pesky
capacitors) to match the coil and configuration. The
output of the coil would be a sinusoid (approximately)
of constant peak voltage, though it would be clipped
to the arc over voltage of the plug at each firing.
The number of pulses delivered would be controlled by
the ECU 'gating' signal.
There would still be some energy left in the system at
gate OFF time, so you might need to absorb that
somehow. But it might be OK to just let it dissipate
naturally, or perhaps short the primary through a
shunt resistor.
One circuit for each spark plug. Sounds like a CNP
module.(!?)
Go for it!
Carter
- - --- Arnaud Westenberg <arnaud at casema.net> wrote:
> No, not DC high voltage but AC high voltage. If the
> power supply would
> be AC this would resamble the capacitor/coil ringing
> and the spark would
> be alternating as well, or am I missing something
> here? This would
> simply use the coil as a power transformer with the
> sparkplug sparking
> as long as the primary of the coil is connected to
> the power supply.
>
> The time that the power supply feeds the primary of
> the coil hence the
> spark duration could simply be controlled with a
> controller
> dis/connecting the supply.
>
> Hope I've explained it better now :-))
>
> Arnaud
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 11:19:36 -0600
From: "Jurgen Hartwig" <jhartwig at midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: CNP coils
> this one came off of a 99 Camaro. there was also a 98 TA (the tag on
the
> car reads "600hp TA", believe it, I saw the dyno sheet, blower &
squeeze)
> there that had the exact same setup. the part number on the coils (all
16)
> was 12558948 (top line, p/n?), 09T29-0200 (bottom line, Date code?)
>
Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification. Hopefully,
someone can assist.
However, I did do some rudimentary searching for the coils. The cheapest
factory coils were $28.17 for the coils you have now, 12558948, and $37.53
for the 2000 Suburban coils, 5.3L. These prices were quoted from
www.gmpartsdirect.com. They were quite a bit cheaper than all the other
vendors.
Now, as you already know, the coil-on-plug setup on the V8s is not
physically coil on each plug. There is a spark plug wire. Apparently,
the reason for this setup is to keep the exhaust manifolds from damaging
the coils. However, there are some COP (coil-on-plug) setups which
physically sit atop the spark plug and are bolted to a bracket for
support. From what I have seen, some Toyotas and Isuzus may utilize this
coil. This would likely be preferably to the GM coils for those not
driving V8.
GM also installs the COP on their Lincoln line, including LS and the SUV,
I believe. I wonder if GM installs COP on every V8, or only a handful.
When I am in town sometime, I will make a point to stop at some junkyards
and probe around.
Jay
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 13:00:36 -0500
From: Matt Cramer <mac9 at po.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: Basic junkyard TBI swap?
At 09:09 PM 2/28/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>In order...
>
>Yes
>Speed shop.. Holley sells them
>All of the sensors the ECU is looking for
>Possibly, depends on how close your engine is to the one the system was
>designed for
>
>Search the links on the DIY-EFI page, you will find all your answers and
>more. This swap has been done many times before and has been well
>documented
>
>Rob_O
>
I've been trying to find this on the DIY_EFI page - unfortunately, the
archives aren't searchable anymore, and I haven't had much of any luck in
either the links on the website or by using search engines. Would anyone
happen to know where I can find any web sites on this topic?
Matt
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:59:59 -0600
From: David C Gregory <DCG1174 at tntech.edu>
Subject: Re: CNP coils
Hi guys-
Just some info you might not have. The 92-94 Nissan Maxima SE (VE30DE) had
a distributorless ignition system with one coil for each plug.
I checked www.car-parts.com and you can get them for about $30 used. I have
no idea how much they would cost new. However, I have been in the maxima
scene for a while, and never heard anyone mention a coil failure. (my own
93 max was still running strong with 150K when it was totalled).
If you are interested, you should know that the right bank setups are almost
twice as long as the left bank because they went through the intake
manifold.
I have no evidence for this assumption, but it seems likely to me that the
were triggered by a TTL signal and have built in ignitors.
HTH
David Gregory
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:44:38 -0600
From: steve ravet <sravet at arm.com>
Subject: Re: Basic junkyard TBI swap?
Actually you want the gmecm list, WWW page, and archive. All available
at www.diy-efi.org/gmecm. Look for tuning tips, programming 101, and a
link to the archive. You'll have to download the archive as a zipped
file, unzip it, and search it yourself. As far as sensors, you'll want
all of them that connect to the ECM. www.jagsthatrun.com or
www.speedometershop.com can help with a VSS sensor in your cable driven
setup. Get the helm service manual for whatever donor your ECM came
from and that'll help with wiring and sensor info.
- - --steve
Matt Cramer wrote:
>
> At 09:09 PM 2/28/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >In order...
> >
> >Yes
> >Speed shop.. Holley sells them
> >All of the sensors the ECU is looking for
> >Possibly, depends on how close your engine is to the one the system was
> >designed for
> >
> >Search the links on the DIY-EFI page, you will find all your answers and
> >more. This swap has been done many times before and has been well
> >documented
> >
> >Rob_O
> >
>
> I've been trying to find this on the DIY_EFI page - unfortunately, the
> archives aren't searchable anymore, and I haven't had much of any luck in
> either the links on the website or by using search engines. Would anyone
> happen to know where I can find any web sites on this topic?
>
> Matt
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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- - --
Steve Ravet
steve.ravet at arm.com
ARM,Inc.
www.arm.com
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 18:41:24 -0600
From: "Robert W. Hughes" <rwhughe at ev1.net>
Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted
> My idea was instead of discharging a capacitor into the primary of the
> coil, directly feeding the primary of the coil with an HV AC power
> supply. This would eliminate the ringing of the capacitor/coil combo and
> spark duration would be as long as one feeds the coil from the power
> supply. It's just an idea of a Mechanical engineer and I don't know if
> it can be realized due to the power requirements, maybe the power supply
> would be huge.
Shades of the Model T. The FCC would probably have some comments to make
about a 500-1000watt source in the middle of the broadcast band riding
around under your hood too.
- - --
Robert W. Hughes (Bob)
BackYard Engineering
29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W
Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen"
rwhughe at ev1.net
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- ------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:54:25 +1100
From: "Warwick Anderson" <racingfit at goconnect.net>
Subject: Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
try looking at this link, it may be of some help to some one, I read it and
didn't understand much, but it looked useful.
waddyareackon?
http://www.atlasf1.com/99/oct06/burckmyer.html
- - ----- Original Message -----
From: "Carter Shore" <clshore at yahoo.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 12:53 AM
Subject: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...)
> Arnaud,
>
> > Do you have any pointers to those schematics so I
> can study a bit more?
> > The simplicity of the schematics would really get me
> started :-)
>
> The links that other list members have forwarded are
> representative of the genre.
>
> > My idea was instead of discharging a capacitor into
> > the primary of the
> > coil, directly feeding the primary of the coil with
> > an HV AC power
> > supply. This would eliminate the ringing of the
> capacitor/coil combo
> > and
> > spark duration would be as long as one feeds the
> coil from the power
> > supply. It's just an idea of a Mechanical engineer
> and I don't know if
> > it can be realized due to the power requirements,
> maybe the power
> > supply
> > would be huge.
>
> Hmmm, let me give you a (somewhat clumsy) mechanical
> analogy to what goes on in an ignition system:
>
> Visualize a gearset, with one small gear (the primary
> winding of the coil) and one large gear (the secondary
> winding of the coil). Now, the speed, RPM, in this
> analogy represents current flow. The torque represents
> voltage. Work done is the product of RPM and torque
> (current and voltage). The gearset transforms RPM and
> torque based on the geartooth ratio. The amount of
> work in and out of the gearset is equal, minus the
> frictional losses.
>
> The gearset has some amount of rotational inertia,
> based on the size and material of the gears. This
> represents the inductance of the coil. It takes some
> force, and time, to get the gearset moving, and once
> moving, the gearset contains some energy, such that it
> also takes some force and time to slow it back down.
>
> We can therefore multiply a small torque (12Volts)
> into a large torque (25,000 Volts) through the
> gearset.
>
> Assume that the small gear is attached to a torsional
> spring (the capacitor). If we slowly turn the small
> gear, it will wind up the spring, storing energy into
> it. Assume that we have a catch mechanism to hold the
> spring and gearset in this 'cocked' position. We could
> measure the amount of torque that the spring was
> exerting. But no energy is being transferred through
> the gearset, because there is no motion. No torque is
> being transferred through the gearset, because of the
> catch mechanism. When we release the catch mechanism,
> the energy in the spring is released and turns the
> gearset rapidly. The gearset is initially at rest, and
> is accelerated at a rate determined by the rotational
> inertia of the gearset, and the amount of torque that
> the spring was initially exerting. Any load attached
> to the large gear would see the torque exerted on the
> small gear, times the gear ratio.
> The spring unwinds, and the gearset accelerates up to
> some speed. At some point, the spring is fully
> unwound. But the gearset is now in motion, and so it
> starts to wind the spring in the opposite direction.
> As the spring starts to store this energy, the gearset
> slows down. Eventually, the gearset stops. But the
> spring is now wound some amount in the other
> direction, and this force (torque) now starts to
> accelerate the gearset in the opposite direction. This
> oscillation will continue, at lower amplitude each
> time, until all of the initial energy stored in the
> spring when we first wound it up is removed from the
> system, either through frictional losses, or by doing
> some work into a load attached to the large gear.
>
> This is what we want if the load is an application
> that requires very high pulse torque, but low RPM,
> such as a concrete drill bit.
>
> This analogy is not perfect, but I hope it gives you a
> flavor of how most ignition systems work.
>
> Now, your idea seems to be to somehow apply a high
> voltage DC pulse to each spark plug, with pulse width
> and timing controlled by an ECU.
>
> Essentially, you wish to establish and maintain a DC
> arc accross the spark plug gap, like DC welding unit
> does.
>
> I believe that this could be accomplished, but not
> with a conventional ignition coil. It would be
> expensive, as most DC control devices are rated for
> hundreds, not tens of thousands of volts. A very high
> frequency (100 Khz ?) gated inverter might do the
> trick. After the initial arc is established, perhaps a
> lower sustaining voltage to keep the arc alive for the
> duration of the pulse?
>
> A greater question is whether or not there would be
> any advantage to doing so.
>
> Does anyone know of any research, or have experience
> with HV DC spark ignition?
>
> Carter Shore
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:49:39 -0800
From: "Bob Wooten" <r71chevy at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Igniters => DIS
thanks, I had downloaded it when you posted it but my confuser died since.
thanks for the refresher & the data.
BW
- - -----Original Message-----
From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
Behalf Of Guy Hill
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 2:44 AM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: Igniters => DIS
Hi
I think the chip you are thinking of is the MC3334.
I've uploaded a datasheet for it onto the ftp site
ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/mc3334rev0f.pdf
IIRC Motorola have stopped making them, I managed to find some from a
supplier in France, so there's some stock still about.
HTH
Guy
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Bob Wooten wrote:
> Jurgen,
>
> thanks, if you run across the info on the Motorola chip I would be
grateful.
> I would go search their site but what site do I search (Motorola, Cheri or
> ON semi)? if you cant come up with it, I'll get over it. maybe first I
> will check the archives for the CNP or was the reference to DIS & Waste
> spark?
>
> I know it is a bunch of work, but it keeps me out of the bars & stimulates
> the mind. I am running a 383, super ram, 700r4 & a 7730/8D. check it our
> if you'd like www.r71camaro.homestead.com
>
> BW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
> Behalf Of Jurgen Hartwig
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:43 AM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS
>
>
> > I have been working on my little DIS project & am counting on the coil
> > charging for a maximum of 3/4 of a rev of the crank. this being the
> case @
> > idle the circuit would have the longest "on" time @ 23.1 mS @ 650 RPM, &
> the
> > shortest time of 1.5 mS @ 10K RPM (yea like my stroker is going to get
> to
> > 10K, God I hope not or I will put small bits of stroker all over the
> road).
> > think that this would be too long @ idle? I am going to mock it up with
> > LED's @ first & the plug the coils in later & see what happens.
> >
>
> Bob, in two pieces of literature I have (Ford FI manual and Wolf 3D
> manual), coil dwell, or charge time, is between 4ms and 6.5ms. I believe
> those are constant dwell times, and if that is true, then 23.1 ms is
> probably too much. There is a Motorola chip that controls dwell.
> However, I forget the number. I can try to find it if you would like, but
> to be honest, fabricating all this sounds like a lot of time.
>
> >
> > if this does happen to be too long a charge time then maybe I will give
> > James a ring & see if I cant get some of those smart igniters from him &
> > skip the IGBT all together. I would much rather pay the $4 each than
> $30
> > each for igniters though. specially if I goto CNP ($30 X 8 = too much)
> >
>
> Bob, if memory serves, those CNP setups already have igniters on board.
> $240 for CNP, or $20 * 4 for GM coils + $30 * 4 for smart igniters. If
> you check the archives (1999) somebody (Gar or Bruce or perhaps Shannen)
> had done a writeup about CNP. I can't remember if they are TTL. If so,
> they might be your cheapest route. I can't remember what setup you were
> running (what fuel injection system? Aftermarket or OE?)
>
> Jay
>
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- ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:03:27 -0800
From: "Bob Wooten" <r71chevy at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: CNP coils
thanks for the info. personally I think that the COP setups can not make as
much power as the CNP coils, it is in the design of the Laminate that makes
the ELAM coil better than any round I shaped coil could ever be.
I am hoping that someone can help me out with the pin out, I don't know when
I am going to get a chance to play with that TA. He is waiting on ARP to
make some head bolts that wont stretch off of the motor @ boost.
anyone have any ideas about the pinout of the coils?
thanks
BW
Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification. Hopefully,
someone can assist.
However, I did do some rudimentary searching for the coils. The cheapest
factory coils were $28.17 for the coils you have now, 12558948, and $37.53
for the 2000 Suburban coils, 5.3L. These prices were quoted from
www.gmpartsdirect.com. They were quite a bit cheaper than all the other
vendors.
Now, as you already know, the coil-on-plug setup on the V8s is not
physically coil on each plug. There is a spark plug wire. Apparently,
the reason for this setup is to keep the exhaust manifolds from damaging
the coils. However, there are some COP (coil-on-plug) setups which
physically sit atop the spark plug and are bolted to a bracket for
support. From what I have seen, some Toyotas and Isuzus may utilize this
coil. This would likely be preferably to the GM coils for those not
driving V8.
GM also installs the COP on their Lincoln line, including LS and the SUV,
I believe. I wonder if GM installs COP on every V8, or only a handful.
When I am in town sometime, I will make a point to stop at some junkyards
and probe around.
Jay
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