Keeping usage agreements

Brian L Massey blocklm at juno.com
Fri Nov 9 01:33:06 GMT 2001


I tidy'd up the subject, as per requested...

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:55:54 -0500 (EST) Stephen Webb
<swebb at netlab.uky.edu> writes:
> Maybe this has been discussed to death, but my $0.02:

It has been, but you don't seem to have bothered following it until now.
That's too bad, because in the least it's going to add to the 'rehash',
and we are *all* sick of this. BUT until Peedie stops issuing further
propaganda trying to justify his very destructive malfeasance, we are
stuck with the issue. I would personally *love* to drop the issue, and do
not *initiate* provocative material , but if Peedie continues to trot out
his excuses, he will be answered. Men of good will say nothing, and
Peedie by default triumphs in his vandalism. That's what he's hoping for.
That isn't going to happen.

> But, I disagree that allowing people to sell it for profit is 
> necessarily
> bad.  I can think of a few reasons or counterexamples.

Nobody said it 'necessarily' was. If *you* want to do a project and put
it under some GPL-style usage agreement, then go ahead. I (and I hope
most others) would respect your wishes. But also respect that if others
do not chose to do that (and the diyWB team chose not to, and made a
different style of agreement instead, one forbidding *any* commercial or
for-profit activity), then if you don't like someone else's style of
usage agreement, you are free to opt out.

> 2.  The GPL is a common license agreement for software.

"The Point" (as in pointy head :) that has now been repeated several
times, is that the diyWB usage agreement was *not* ever intended to model
after the GPL license. That was the diyWB development team's *choice*.
Again, if you don't like what they've chosen to do with their usage
agreement, then you obviously don't 'agree' with them on the terms of
your usage of the info, and are free to pass on by their goodies. Arguing
against their usage agreement terms in public, after it's a done deal,
lends support to those who are now choosing to violate that agreement
(Peter Gargano in particular). The issue of what is the usage agreement
is *OVER* and not open to discussion; you do what you want, and let the
diyWB team do as they have designed. Common courtesy.

The question now simply (and more basically) is, "will this group
resolutely agree to keep whatever agreements that donors to the list
request?" or not. And I'm certainly not trying to stiffle discussion on
forging usage agreements, and the different styles. But you can only do
that productively if you *first* agree on this fundamental ground rule,
that however a group of people wish to manage their charitable donations,
you *will* both respect and seek to follow those wishes as best you can.
Try to lobby for a particular type of agreement all you want, but once
that agreement is chosen by the donors, either you acquiesce to it, or
you decline the use of the goodies being donated. Otherwise you have
anarchy and it is then totally *pointless* to discuss types of
agreements, because they are then meaningless.

Peter was perfectly free to disagree with the ULA accompanying use of the
diyWB info. But then the only honorable thing to have done was to pass on
by the information. Instead, he grabbed it without (and against)
permission from the donors, and further encouraged everyone else to pay
no mind to the usage agreement. As a result, he is attempting to
completely nullify and overthrow the entire *concept* of usage
agreements, making them effectively null and void.

It's about whether or not people will keep to these kinds of gentlemen's
agreements or not. Your choice: yes, we agree, and you have a group
working toward mutual respect and advancement. No, you have no intention
of keeping agreements you don't like, and you have a mob of suckups and
opportunists. Just which option do you think is going to create the most
benefit and success?

Stephen, you must first speak to *this* issue above, before you can even
begin to discuss what types or styles of agreements you prefer and want
to promote. As far as the diyWB usage agreement is concerned, it's a done
deal. Decide first if you have honor enough to respect someone else's
terms and wishes on how their charitable donations are to be used. That
is the issue at hand. Only then can we meaningfully discuss the whys and
wherefores of different styles of agreements. Let's start there, shall
we?

Brian
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