F1, trickle-down, etc.

[James Montebello]

On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, Eric Bryant wrote:
> This is all true, but you're missing an very important point - every
> four-stroke racebike nowadays is based upon a streetbike (with the lone
> exception of the Harley-Davidson VR1000).  While the typical Superbike rules
> are pretty loose, they still need to run factory head castings, crankcases,
> and use stock internal dimensions.

Not missing that point at all.  First, not *all* 4-stroke racebikes are
based on streetbikes.  The bikes used by the front-line teams at the
Suzuka 8-hours are NOT streetbikes.  The rules are unique, and these are
essentially 4-stroke GP bikes.  The first actual 4-stroke GP bikes are
being developed around these bikes.  Second, anyone who really thinks
there's much shared between the front-line Superbikes and what's on
the showroom floor needs to wise up (all due respect).  Case in point:
no Kawasaki streetbike uses gear-driven cams, but the last Kawasaki
superbike did.

 
> Honda's RC45 bike made about 185 HP with 750 cc of displacement, which isn't
> bad for production-based technology:)

No, not bad.  Still well below the F1 engines in specific output,
however (245hp/liter v. 280hp/liter).  I'd still quibble with how
"production-based" the front-line engines really are, however.  Just using
factory castings isn't much of a hinderance to wild experimentation.  Note
the earlier comment about how BMW used to use production castings to build
their 1200bhp turbo F1 engines in the early 80s.  This is 10x what the
same block was subjected to in stock form.  

 
>>On street bikes, fuel injection has only very recently become commonplace,
>>and still isn't universal on even the best-selling sporting machines.
> 
> Sportbikes are rapidly turning to EFI.  There's been a lack of acceptance on
> behalf of customers until recently (because some of the first attempts at

Rapidly, but the bulk of the models for sale still have carbs.  I still
contend that bikes are well behind cars in the tech stakes, which was the
original point.


> Ducati and Honda both spend about $30 million a year on their Superbike
> efforts (and Honda probably throws nearly that much at their two-stroke GP
> effort).  I'm convinced that the sponsorship money is there to allow some
> serious technology in four-stroke GP racing.

$30M for Honda, $200M for Ferrari.  That's a big difference to make up.
No one really knows how much Honda spends on its F1 engine program, but
it's absolutely over $100M per year. 

 
> If nothing else, at least bikes make for better racing than F1 cars, because
> there's actually room to pass on modern tracks.  Additionally, the equipment
> is a smaller part of the equation in bike racing 

A completely separate point entirely (and one I won't argue with).

james montebello

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