[Fwd: BOUNCE diy_efi at diy-efi.org: Approval required:]

[steve ravet]

Approval required? Hah. More like "courage required" on your part.

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:05:21 -0600 steve ravet <sravet at arm.com> writes:

> You understand how it works -- this part must not have been left out 
> of my warm embrace.

On the contrary, you *did* leave it out, and attempt to then whitewash
it
again by saying "Bruce competes if he wants". The point is, if Bruce
*doesn't want*, you smile and say he'll be forced to (and seem to feel
that's just fine & dandy) if he finds the profiteers milking his labors
and objects to that.

> > If such designs are done under GPL, they
> > *will* be commercialized (if there is a market, they sure will be),
and
> > the profits will be whatever the market will bear.
> 
> My embrace included this info also.  Since the hard part (design 
> and
> layout) are done there will be plenty of people servicing this 
> market
> keeping the price low.  How many $25 PIC programmers are there out
> there?  You can buy one built for less than what you'd pay for just 
> the
> parts.

Another fairie tale; you embrace an absurd example like a PIC programmer
or your tiny little PWM project, and think you've covered the reality of
it all. Get real.

> > GPL is good for someone who wants to spawn an idea and see it 
> matured
> > into commercial or widespread existence by others, but doesn't 
> want to be
> > involved with it any further than that, AND doesn't mind others 
> taking
> > their work gratus and making a profit from it. It sucks if you 
> want to
> > keep "bidness" and the "money" out of the whole thing, and 
> especially if
> > you are trying to constrain "users" of your intellectual property 
> to
> > involve themselves in the DIY process, instead of just the BIY 
> process
> > (as in, buy it yourself).
> 
> I'm going to guess that you've never contributed to the free 
> software community.

Quite right, I'm an industrial controls engineer, and am still looking
for an example of anything substantial and valuable that has been
developed *in hardware* under the GPL. Name one.

>Your
> statements regarding GPL have no substance because you've never used 
> it.

Wow, I'm reeling under the force of such trite logic. I don't admire nor
support the GPL for hardware because I understand very well what it
implies. I don't have to *use* axle-grease on my hair in order to
determine it's not fit for such use. Your arguments continue to be
ridiculously and absurdly childish.

>How about if you provide a counterpoint of a real example
> where the GPL has inhibited DIY?

Fine. How about the WB project. You do remember that one, eh? At least
twice in a row, that project has been entangled with the same issue of
people threatening the developers with "as soon as you release it, I'm
going to make them for sale". And *twice* in a row, that *was* objected
to by the developers. Both parties (which anyone can see if they are a
student of the archives) had other things going, perhaps even more
exciting and valuable things they planned for the future to give away,
but instead they basically *left* the group because of lack of
supporting
their simple wishes to avoid commercialization of their work.

Have you looked lately at the posting traffic? Compare BruceP's or
BobR's
recent activity level pre vrs. post DIY-WB. They too have now
essentially
*left* the group. I've corresponded with both of them privately, and
they
are both totally disgusted. How's *that* for "inhibiting DIY"? Those
guys, nobody can deny, were some of the most *major* contributors to
these lists. They don't want to see a license for piracy, which for them
is all the GPL amounts to if applied to their work; they just wanted to
see their work remain non-commercial. They had every right to. They said
so upfront. But now *you* grand "management" guys have decided not only
to honor the thieves, but to codify their attitude in a "law" of the
list, which recognizes *only* the GPL as a bona-fide 'Free' Usage
License. It's only free is you're free to steal it. A thief's concept of
free.

> > The bottom line of this "new policy" of edicting the GPL or else 
> "you're
> > commercial", is to insist that any future DIY project creators 
> *mustn't*
> > care about others profiting from their work. But shoot, if you 
> don't care
> > about entreprenureal parasites like Peter feeding off of your 
> work, be my
> > guest. :)
> 
> I shouldn't have to reproduce the new commercial policy here.  It's
> front and center on the WWW page.  A commercial project isn't 
> banned
> from the list, and WBO2 isn't banned, and commercial doesn't mean 
> that
> you can't give it away if you want.

This is purely subterfuge; we have *just* seen an example of this, where
the list managers did *nothing* to prevent the outright piracy of the
DIY-WB developer's work, AND tried to squelch the objections of the
developers. You & Orin left that parasite General Peter free to post and
defend his "position", but attempted to shut up anyone like myself and
others who came to the defence of the DIY-WB team. Peter should have
been
forever *banned* from the DIY lists for what he did, but instead you've
honored him with an official Peter Policy, namely an effective forced
GPL. You might as well call your move, instituting the "General Peter's
License", GPL for short.

What you have *intentionally* done by edicting this policy is to say,
"if
you want to give a project away with non-commercial restrictions", you
will *not* be allowed to say zip about it if someone openly violates
your
wishes. That's your "management" of the situation?!; shut up the people
rightfully crying foul? But the thief is there, and still able to talk
freely!! You don't obliterate theft by redefining it into a "public
license" to suckup on anyone elses labor. Did you close your eyes and
hide under your bed as a child?

I find your actions completely reprehensible and irresponsible. You've
abrogated your real "management" responsibilities, and instead cowardly
hidden behind a smokescreen called the GPL.

No honor, no respect.

Brian L. Massey
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