[Diy_efi] EMS inputs/output?

Kent Martin kentmartin at froggy.com.au
Thu Jul 25 05:57:52 GMT 2002


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C233EA.CC721E70
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good points there, but I'd just like to throw my two cents and say you =
should think=20
about water injection as a method of knock control and build it into =
your system.
You would only require 1 PWM or analogue voltage out to control a pump =
and this=20
is a very effective method of preventing knock, especially in turbo =
cars.
Oh and as for the micro, you'd be best off finding a new one, the ones =
from '92 will be=20
dated and slow. You can get many these days that are fast and have good =
development
tools. Look through the emails on this site and you'll find a number =
that people use.

Kent.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Joe Beninca=20
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] EMS inputs/output?


    To Alex,

    My name is Tony & me & partner build a EMS for 3rd/4th year project =
in 91/92.  We had 2 uP system (1=3Dengine calcs,2=3Dfuel/ign hardware =
control).
    Had
    Manifold,Baro(Sep sensors),A/F,Air,Water,Throttle,Ext =
output(On/Off),fuel pump relay,Crank,Cam(as sequential),8 injectors + 4 =
ign.
    Had 3D ign,fuel,sequential,dwell+accel pumps,thr or pressure =
mapped,1..8 cylinders & all programmed via laptop which had lot of =
assembler as ran on old XT laptop+had 16 live parameters at better then =
10 updates per sec.  Could down/upload files & tune in real time with no =
hickups.  Data logging was inside PC.  Even had bar graph for A/F ratio =
(Which was a big thing in 1992, well I thought so)
    Removed ECU from brothers car,found connector to adapt to standard =
wiring+added extra wires for sequential+cam sensor(Car was alfa TS 2 =
valve) &  plugged in my ECU, mapped on dyno, drove in to RMIT & showed =
my lecturer who basically did not understand so was not impressed.

    Hints:
    We used a intel 196KC development board & connected our hardware to =
this.  This gave us good debugging.  Without a debugger you are wasting =
your time as will never get software working.  So as a student you =
compromise uP performance for best debugging tools.

    I SAY GO BIG OR GO HOME.  GO ALL THE WAY MAN.

    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: huw scourfield=20
    To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
    Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2002 9:37 AM
    Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] EMS inputs/output?


    Alex, I did just what you're doing, my advice would be to keep it =
simple, forget lambda - go open loop, if using manifold pressure, forget =
throttle position. Forget "ping" sensor too, this is really involved.The =
injector timing will be in the 1-8 mS region, no real need to use Pwm =
outputs, but I suppose it could be used. As for ign, I would suggest =
using a remote module (bosch), as these take care of dwell interally.
        Start small, if you have time later, then add the goodies.
        Huw=20
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: alex averbuch=20
      To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
      Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 2:36 AM
      Subject: [Diy_efi] EMS inputs/output?


      I'm on my final year of an Engineering degree and as part of my =
course I have to do a research paper.  Engine Management Systems have =
always interested me so I'm going to try building one, only problem is I =
know very little about the input and output signals that an EMS =
requires.
      Listed below are all the inputs/outputs that I KNOW are used.  If =
anyone knows of anymore then could you please tell me and include what =
the function of the input/output is.
      INPUTS
        Water Temp: Used for cold start.
        Manifold Air Pressure: Used to measure Engine Load.
        RPM
        LAMBDA:  Measures Air/Fuel mixtures in exhaust.
        Throttle Position: Used to control boost or for Fueling =
compensations.
        Ping Sensor: Detects detonation.
        Crank Angle: Used a trigger for firing each spark plug? NOT TOO =
SURE ABOUT THIS
      OUTPUTS
        Injector Timing: PWM output? NOT TOO SURE ABOUT THIS EITHER
        Ignition: I have know Idea what this output signal is or where =
it is sent. :(


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
      MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: =
Click Here
      _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing =
list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi

------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C233EA.CC721E70
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good points there, but I'd just like to =
throw my=20
two cents and say you should think </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>about water injection as a method of =
knock control=20
and build it into your system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You would only require 1 PWM or =
analogue voltage=20
out to control a pump and this </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is a very effective method of =
preventing knock,=20
especially in turbo cars.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh and as for the micro, you'd be best =
off finding=20
a new one, the ones from '92 will be </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>dated and slow. You can get many these =
days that=20
are fast and have good development</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>tools. Look through the emails on this =
site and=20
you'll find a number that people use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kent.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:beninca at ains.net.au" title=3Dbeninca at ains.net.au>Joe =
Beninca</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org"=20
  title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org>diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 25, 2002 =
11:21=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Diy_efi] EMS=20
  inputs/output?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>To Alex,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>My name is Tony &amp; =
me &amp;=20
    partner build a EMS for 3rd/4th year project in 91/92.&nbsp; We had =
2 uP=20
    system (1=3Dengine calcs,2=3Dfuel/ign hardware =
control).</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>Had</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>Manifold,Baro(Sep=20
    sensors),A/F,Air,Water,Throttle,Ext output(On/Off),fuel pump=20
    relay,Crank,Cam(as sequential),8 injectors + 4 ign.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>Had 3D=20
    ign,fuel,sequential,dwell+accel pumps,thr or&nbsp;pressure =
mapped,1..8=20
    cylinders &amp; all programmed via laptop which had lot of assembler =
as ran=20
    on old XT laptop+had 16 live parameters at better then 10 updates =
per=20
    sec.&nbsp; Could down/upload files &amp; tune in real time with no=20
    hickups.&nbsp; Data logging was inside PC.&nbsp; Even had bar graph =
for A/F=20
    ratio (Which was a big thing in 1992, well I thought =
so)</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>Removed ECU =
from&nbsp;brothers=20
    car,found connector to adapt to standard wiring+added extra wires=20
    for&nbsp;sequential+cam sensor(Car was alfa TS 2 =
valve)&nbsp;&amp;&nbsp;=20
    plugged in my ECU, mapped on dyno, drove in to RMIT &amp; showed my =
lecturer=20
    who&nbsp;basically did not understand so was not =
impressed.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>Hints:</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3>We used a intel 196KC =
development=20
    board &amp; connected our hardware to this.&nbsp; This gave us good=20
    debugging.&nbsp; Without a debugger you are wasting your time as =
will never=20
    get software working.&nbsp; So as a student you compromise uP =
performance=20
    for&nbsp;best&nbsp;debugging tools.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT size=3D3><STRONG>I SAY GO BIG =
OR GO=20
    HOME.&nbsp; GO ALL THE WAY MAN.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A href=3D"mailto:huw.scourfield at lineone.net"=20
    title=3Dhuw.scourfield at lineone.net>huw scourfield</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org"=20
    title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org>diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 25 July 2002 =
9:37=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Diy_efi] EMS=20
    inputs/output?</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Alex, I did just what you're doing, =
my advice=20
    would be to keep it simple, forget lambda - go open loop, if using =
manifold=20
    pressure, forget throttle position. Forget "ping" sensor too, this =
is really=20
    involved.The injector timing will be in the 1-8 mS region, no real =
need to=20
    use Pwm outputs, but I suppose it could be used. As for ign, I would =
suggest=20
    using a remote module (bosch), as these take care of dwell=20
    interally.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Start small, if =
you have=20
    time later, then add the goodies.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Huw</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A href=3D"mailto:averchoob at hotmail.com" =
title=3Daverchoob at hotmail.com>alex=20
      averbuch</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org"=20
      title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org>diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 24, =
2002 2:36=20
      AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Diy_efi] EMS=20
      inputs/output?</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>I'm on&nbsp;my final year of an Engineering degree and as =
part of my=20
      course I have to do a research paper.&nbsp; Engine Management =
Systems have=20
      always interested me so I'm going to try building one, only =
problem is I=20
      know very little about the input and output signals that an EMS=20
      requires.</DIV>
      <DIV>Listed below&nbsp;are all the inputs/outputs that I KNOW are=20
      used.&nbsp;&nbsp;If anyone knows of anymore then could you please =
tell me=20
      and include what the function of the input/output is.</DIV>
      <DIV>INPUTS</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; Water Temp: Used for cold start.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; Manifold Air Pressure: Used to measure Engine =
Load.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; RPM</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; LAMBDA:&nbsp; Measures Air/Fuel mixtures in =
exhaust.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; Throttle Position: Used to control boost or for =
Fueling=20
      compensations.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; Ping Sensor: Detects detonation.</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; Crank Angle: Used a trigger for firing each spark =
plug? NOT=20
      TOO SURE ABOUT THIS</DIV>
      <DIV>OUTPUTS</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; Injector Timing: PWM output? NOT TOO SURE ABOUT THIS=20
      EITHER</DIV>
      <DIV>&nbsp; Ignition: I have know Idea what this output signal is =
or where=20
      it is sent. :(</DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
      <HR>
      MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <A=20
      href=3D"http://g.msn.com/1HM1ENNZ/c156??PI=3D44352">Click=20
      Here</A><BR>_______________________________________________ =
Diy_efi=20
      mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
      =
http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C233EA.CC721E70--



_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi



More information about the Diy_efi mailing list