[Diy_efi] was tiny inj: now supercharger

Sat Jun 29 01:27:36 GMT 2002

It wants passwords and usernames at the links
Bruce


----- Original Message -----
From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:38 PM
Subject: [Diy_efi] was tiny inj: now supercharger


> I've got an Accel single plane EFI manifold which has a Holley 750 carb
> bored out to 1.6 bores to make what should be an 900 or so cfm progressive
> four barrel throttle body.
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/2002-04-15%2073.
> bmp
> On top of that will reside the secondary intercooler, The soon to be shiny
> cap for it will stick through the hood.
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/air%20to%20water
> .JPG The charge air will flow through what would normally be the ambient
> side with either freon or 32 degree water flowing inside it. The air to
air
> intercooler will be in front of the radiator.
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/air%20to%20air.J
> PG It is the larger of the three pictured. All the piping is 3", including
> the mandrel bent 90 degree elbows. It is 90% installed at this point but
> there is still a lot of work left.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercharger/files/elcamino73/engine.JPG  As
> you can see it uses a 12 rib serpentine drive belt dedicated to the
blower.
> I've got access to a machinist who can dice up a set of cog pulleys if the
> serps slip. Which according to some one I trust more than ATI says will
> indeed happen at 15psi. If I go that route I'll step up the blower speed
to
> 65,000 RPM and try and pull 18 psi. I've got the fuel and air to do it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Blown 407
> ElCamino
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
>
>
> > Is youre throttlebody upstream or downstream of the "blower" ? and what
> sort
> > of intake manifold, and how are you hooking the whole thing up?
> >
> >
> > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > >Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 05:17:35 -0400
> > >
> > >got ya! None of that applies to what I'm doing except the too expensive
> > >thing. They wanted $175 for a choke pull off tied to a 1 inch butterfly
> > >valve that leaked like a bitch when in the off position. I believe they
> > >thought it was a blow off valve. Right back at them with that one.
> > >
> > >
> > >Blown 407
> > >ElCamino
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > >Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 5:29 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > >
> > >
> > > > Whoa, hold on a minute. What I got started on here was building a
> > > > Centrifugal supercharger for a "tiny" engine. I was talking a few
> cubes.
> > > > That can be done with a vaccum cleaner impeller and custom housing
> real
> > > > inexpensive and simple. The plumbing could be done real straight
> forward
> > > > with the butterfly upstream of the impeller with NO bypass or
anything
> > >like
> > > > that.
> > > >
> > > > A car setup is ALOT different. The other poster here seems to have
> alot
> > >of
> > > > experience in the R&D area of centrifugals, so he may be better
> > >qualified
> > > > for alot of this.
> > > > I was just saying that doing a "tiny" engine didnt have to be done
> like
> > >a
> > > > late model EFI car like what MOST of these seem to be targeted at.
> > > > I installed Vortech, ATI, Paxton/Novi systems on 4th gen
> F-body's(mostly
> > > > LT-1's). Most were inetrcooled(one brand likes to call it
AFTERCOOLED)
> > >with
> > > > air-air(ATI) or water-air(Vortech). In all honesty I dont think they
> > >could
> > > > have done very much different with their basic kit designs
considering
> > >the
> > > > design criteria these things had to meet. I'm talking about the
> plumbing
> > >of
> > > > the system, NOT the design of the blower itself.
> > > > The engine compartments are TIGHT! the hose bends are TIGHT, The
> > >clearence
> > > > between the steering shaft and the "blower" inlet in some cases is
> REAL
> > > > CLOSE. The inlet hose has to make a 180 right at the blower and is a
> > >REAL
> > > > BITCH to put on in some cases. The hoses have a bad tendancy to slip
> or
> > >blow
> > > > off at the worst times.
> > > > The T-REX "booster " pump idea dont work very well(I took 2 of them
> off
> > >on
> > > > the dyno because they werent making any difference). The belt's tend
> to
> > >slip
> > > > alot, or the tensioners fall apart(ATI). I asked if anybody used cog
> > >belts
> > > > and was told that there tended to be alot of alignment problems.
> > > > But here's the thing, on THOSE cars I dont see how you could do it
> much
> > > > different given the space, and requirement to leave most of the
stock
> > > > components alone.
> > > > On something where you have alot of room and can position and plumb
> the
> > > > blower FIRST then place the accesories and evrything else AFTERWARDS
> you
> > > > could do alot better than those late model bolt on kits.
> > > >
> > > > I also happen to think that the "kits" are WAY WAY overpriced!! I
> > >wouldnt
> > > > bitch so much about the quality if I thought the quality matched the
> > >price.
> > > > But of course their typical customer is used to paying a fortune for
> the
> > > > parts on the late model "muscle cars".
> > > > For example: On MY prefered type of "hot rod"(late 60's muscle cars)
I
> > >have
> > > > been used to paying about $110-150 for an inexpensive seto of
headers,
> > >or
> > > > about 250-300 for a REAL NICE set of headers. On a 4th gen F-body
with
> > >an
> > > > LS-1 a good set of headders will set you back 600-900 bucks
depending
> on
> > > > which kind(TTS are nice). They sure as hell aint made better than
the
> > > > 250-300 dollar classic muscle car headders I use.They dont leak
less,
> > >they
> > > > dont flow better, they wouldnt make more HP on the dyno(with
evrything
> > >else
> > > > equal), The exhaust sure dont bolt up easier, they dont have 2-3
times
> > >more
> > > > material in them to justify the price. Its all a bunch of marketing
> > >CRAP!
> > > > Try this, lookup the price for a cam from Comp cams for an LS-1,
it'll
> > >be
> > >a
> > > > HYD roller. Now look the price for a HYD roller Comp Cam for a
> > >traditional
> > > > american V8. The LS-1 cam may cost over twice as much as the others,
> but
> > >do
> > > > you believe it costs twice as much to make?? HELL NO!! Sure maby the
> > >first
> > > > few batches while the tooling was being perfected(but most of it is
> done
> > >by
> > > > CNC anyhow).
> > > > This is one of My biggest gripes I have with these latemodel
> centrifugal
> > > > supercharger kits. Its rediculous, but I guess as long as guys line
up
> > >to
> > > > plop down their money they'll keep on sellin 'em.
> > > >
> > > > OKAY, FLAME AWAY!!! :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > >Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 18:44:45 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >You've got my attention. I have built a system from scratch and it
is
> > >not
> > > > >finished yet.
> > > > >D1 Procharger, Accel single plane manifold, custom 4 barrel
throttle
> > >body,
> > > > >large air to air I/C and second I/C to be figured out yet.
> > > > >Stop being so darn general and tell me what you don't like about
> "these
> > > > >systems".
> > > > >.
> > > > >
> > > > >Blown 407
> > > > >ElCamino
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "The Punisher" <punisher454 at hotmail.com>
> > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > >Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 2:47 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > THOSE systems are designed to be "bolt on's" without changing
the
> > > > > > intake/throttlebody/etc...
> > > > > > They work okay for what they are, but there are ALOT of design
> > > > >compromises
> > > > > > made so they can fit in the crowded engine compartments of late
> > >model
> > > > >EFI
> > > > > > cars. The majority of their customers dont like to modify
things.
> > >Based
> > > > >on
> > > > > > the criteria they are designed to meet, they just dont have much
> > >choice
> > > > >in
> > > > > > the design.
> > > > > > But if you were designing something from scratch, and it didnt
> have
> > >to
> > > > >fit
> > > > > > and look a certian way then there is alot of room for
improvment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "elcamino73" <elcamino73 at mindspring.com>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > > > >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] tiny injection
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:01:16 -0400
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Full size car centrifugals like Vortech, ATI, Paxton/NOVI
and
> > >the
> > > > >like
> > > > > > > > expose the compressor to full atmospheric pressure at all
> times
> > >and
> > > > >have
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > have a "bypass" system open most of the time, This wastes
> energy
> > > > >during
> > > > > > > > normal driving(its done this way to make the kits "bolt
> on's").
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Is that to say that there is a better way to do this or is it
> just
> > >what
> > > > > > >needs to
> > > > > > >  be done by virtue of the design?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > >Diy_efi mailing list
> > > > > > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > > > >http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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