[Diy_efi] False knock?

Wed Nov 6 17:51:58 GMT 2002

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Grant,

Any way you can take the knock sensor out of the equation?  Somehow tell the
computer no knocking is happening and see if you still get the power loss?

Maybe your car really likes a rich mixture?  Try going even richer and see
if you loose power too.  Maybe you’re really right at the optimum with 10.7
A/F?

Another question, does it only pull spark with the leaner mixture?

Good luck.

Daniel R. Nicoson
Equipment Exchange Company
Phone:  (814) 774-0888
Fax:      (814) 774-0880

-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org]On Behalf
Of Grant Beaty
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:12 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Diy_efi] False knock?

I re-did the repair manuals knock sensors tests and both check out ok,
.123ms period at 4k RPMs. Timing advance still plummets when the car is
leaned out past 10.8:1 or so, at boost levels from 14 to 19 psi. This has
been verified by 3 different wideband O2s. The car's compression is perfect,
172-175 across the board, no visible blow-by anyways, and it burns no oil.
The car actually lost power going from 10.7 to 12.0 a/f on the dyno, 450
rwhp to 445 (although it picked up some torque before it pulled ~4 degrees
of timing). All other Supras I've heard of pick up some power when leaned
out, even on pump gas, and even past 12.5:1, as long as its only for one
dyno pull.

Does anyone have any experience with false knock associated with a/f ratios?
Is it possible that my car simply makes more knock-noise than others?
Unfortunately I don't have access to other Supras to experiment on w/ a
digital scope. It doesn't seem likely that the ECU would pick up false knock
only when the car is leaned out, but given that the compression is so good
(59k miles of HARD driving, lots of long highway pulls, and quite a few road
course miles too) thats the only thing I can think of. A plug chop on the
dyno revealed no noticable cylinder imbalance. Coolant temps make no
difference, even as low as 160F.

A few people have told me the squish area or the quality of valve seat
installation could have a large effect on knock threashold. However, given
that I have good compression and the plugs have never showed signs of det
(even when it pulls 8 degrees of timing), it doesn't seem likely to me. I'm
all out of things to try though, except for trying another ECU which should
be coming in the mail.

Thanks for any help,
Grant Beaty
'97 T66 Supra TT 6-speed
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Beaty < gbeaty at ufl.edu <mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu> >
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org>  < diy_efi at diy-efi.org
<mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org> >
Date: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q
I just measured the 1st knock sensor's frequency with my ghetto-o-scope (
http://polly.phys.msu.su/~zeld/oscill.html ), and it appeared to have a
period of about .08ms at 4k RPMs, whereas the repair manual states it should
have a frequency of .123ms. Does anyone know if this is a signifant
difference? (I know there is virtually no chance of anyone have any idea,
but hey, it worth a try since sensors are $130 a pop).

Thanks for any help?
Grant
-----Original Message-----
From: Grant Beaty < gbeaty at ufl.edu <mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu> >
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org>  < diy_efi at diy-efi.org
<mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org> >
Date: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q
It read the same as another FJO they had at the dyno, and the same as a
friend's FJO, and the same as another friend's FJO, etc.

Grant
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Starkey @ VMP < justinv6 at bellsouth.net
<mailto:justinv6 at bellsouth.net> >
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org>  < diy_efi at diy-efi.org
<mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org> >
Date: Monday, October 28, 2002 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q
I can't help you with the Knock sensor.  How accurate was yor FJO WB? I
haven't had a chance to test mine against any others.
Justin Starkey
www.VelocityMustangPerformance.com
<http://www.VelocityMustangPerformance.com>
**Quote Original E-Mail In Reply**
----- Original Message -----
From: Grant Beaty <mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu>
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:22 PM
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q

Has anyone ever seen a knock sensor, or even a ECU, go bad & trigger knock
sooner than others?

My car actually makes peak power with an a/f of about 10.5:1 on pump gas. It
doesn't matter if the boost is 15 or 19, it just pulls too much timing.
Leaning out from mid-high 10s to 12.0: lost 5rwhp, and its even worse in the
1/4 mi, where it at WOT longer (2-3 mph would be lost with a similar tuning
change).

I've done a plug chop on the dyno, and it didn't show any cylinder
imbalance. Compression is 172-175 in all cylinders. My FJO WB has been
verified against others. Carbon build up isn't possible with my driving
style. So the only thing left to check is the electronics, and new knock
sensors aren't cheap, so I'm asking here first.

Thanks for any help,
Grant Beaty
'97 Toyota Supra T66 6-speed

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Grant,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Any way you =
can take the
knock sensor out of the equation?<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp; </span>Somehow
tell the computer no knocking is happening and see if you still get the =
power
loss?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Maybe your car =
really
likes a rich mixture?<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>Try =
going
even richer and see if you loose power too.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>Maybe you&#8217;re really right at the optimum with =
10.7 A/F?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Another =
question, does it
only pull spark with the leaner =
mixture?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Good =
luck.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle17><font=20
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></font></span><![endif]--><f=
ont
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'>Daniel R. =
Nicoson</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Equipment Exchange =
Company</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Phone:<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>(814) 774-0888</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Fax:<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>(814) =
774-0880</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org
[mailto:diy_efi-admin at diy-efi.org]<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf
Of </span></b>Grant Beaty<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, November =
05, 2002
9:12 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
diy_efi at diy-efi.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Diy_efi] False =
knock?</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

I =
re-did the
repair manuals knock sensors tests and both check out ok, .123ms period =
at 4k
RPMs. Timing advance still plummets when the car is leaned out past =
10.8:1 or
so, at boost levels from 14 to 19 psi. This has been verified by 3 =
different
wideband O2s. The car's compression is perfect, 172-175 across the =
board, no
visible blow-by anyways, and it burns no oil. The car actually lost =
power going
from 10.7 to 12.0 a/f on the dyno, 450 rwhp to 445 (although it picked =
up some
torque before it pulled ~4 degrees of timing). All other Supras I've =
heard of
pick up some power when leaned out, even on pump gas, and even past =
12.5:1, as
long as its only for one dyno pull.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

Does anyone
have any experience with false knock associated with a/f ratios? Is it =
possible
that my car simply makes more knock-noise than others? Unfortunately I =
don't
have access to other Supras to experiment on w/ a digital scope. It =
doesn't
seem likely that the ECU would pick up false knock only when the car is =
leaned
out, but given that the compression is so good (59k miles of HARD =
driving, lots
of long highway pulls, and quite a few road course miles too) thats the =
only
thing I can think of. A plug chop on the dyno revealed no noticable =
cylinder
imbalance. Coolant temps make no difference, even as low as =
160F.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

A =
few people
have told me the squish area or the quality of valve seat installation =
could
have a large effect on knock threashold. However, given that I have good
compression and the plugs have never showed signs of det (even when it =
pulls 8
degrees of timing), it doesn't seem likely to me. I'm all out of things =
to try
though, except for trying another ECU which should be coming in the =
mail.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Thanks for
any help,</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Grant Beaty</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>'97 T66 Supra
TT 6-speed</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black =
1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>-----Original Message-----</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From: </span></b>Grant Beaty &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu">gbeaty at ufl.edu</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b><a
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</a> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Saturday, November =
02, 2002
12:01 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [Diy_efi] =
Knock
sensor Q</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=

auto;margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black =
1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>I =
just
measured the 1st knock sensor's frequency with my ghetto-o-scope ( <a
href=3D"http://polly.phys.msu.su/~zeld/oscill.html">http://polly.phys.msu=
.su/~zeld/oscill.html</a>
), and it appeared to have a period of about .08ms at 4k RPMs, whereas =
the
repair manual states it should have a frequency of .123ms. Does anyone =
know if
this is a signifant difference? (I know there is virtually no chance of =
anyone
have any idea, but hey, it worth a try since sensors are $130 a =
pop).<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=

auto;margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black =
1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=

auto;margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black =
1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Thanks for
any help?</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:=

auto;margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black =
1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Grant</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:s=
olid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>-----Original Message-----</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From: </span></b>Grant Beaty &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu">gbeaty at ufl.edu</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b><a
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</a> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Tuesday, October =
29, 2002
2:20 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [Diy_efi] =
Knock
sensor Q</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>It
read the same as another FJO they had at the dyno, and the same as a =
friend's
FJO, and the same as another friend's FJO, etc.</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.0in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Grant</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:47.25pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:=
solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>-----Original Message-----</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From: </span></b>Justin Starkey @ =
VMP &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:justinv6 at bellsouth.net">justinv6 at bellsouth.net</a>&gt;<br>=

<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To: </span></b><a
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</a> &lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Date: </span></b>Monday, October 28, =
2002
12:05 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject: </span></b>Re: [Diy_efi] =
Knock
sensor Q</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:win=
dowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:47.25pt;border:none;mso-border-lef=
t-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>I can't help you with the Knock sensor.&nbsp; How accurate =
was yor
FJO WB? I haven't had a chance to test mine against any =
others.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:47.25pt;border:none;mso-border-lef=
t-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Justin
Starkey<br>
<a =
href=3D"http://www.VelocityMustangPerformance.com">www.VelocityMustangPer=
formance.com</a><br>
**Quote Original E-Mail In Reply**</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

</div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:n=
one;
mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in =
0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>

<div style=3D'font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href=3D"mailto:gbeaty at ufl.edu" title=3D"gbeaty at ufl.edu">Grant Beaty</a> =
</span></font></div>

<font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org" =
title=3D"diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</a>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span=
></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>
Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:22 PM</span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt'><b><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> [Diy_efi] Knock sensor Q</span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Has
anyone ever seen a knock sensor, or even a ECU, go bad &amp; trigger =
knock
sooner than others?</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>My
car actually makes peak power with an a/f of about 10.5:1 on pump gas. =
It
doesn't matter if the boost is 15 or 19, it just pulls too much timing. =
Leaning
out from mid-high 10s to 12.0: lost 5rwhp, and its even worse in the 1/4 =
mi,
where it at WOT longer (2-3 mph would be lost with a similar tuning =
change).</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>I've
done a plug chop on the dyno, and it didn't show any cylinder imbalance.
Compression is 172-175 in all cylinders. My FJO WB has been verified =
against
others. Carbon build up isn't possible with my driving style. So the =
only thing
left to check is the electronics, and new knock sensors aren't cheap, so =
I'm
asking here first.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Thanks
for any help,</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Grant
Beaty</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:1.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:51.0pt;border:none;mso-border-left=
-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>'97
Toyota Supra T66 6-speed</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:
black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

</body>

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