[Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore
Karl Walter
krw at efn.org
Tue Feb 22 16:55:12 GMT 2005
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Dan, Thanks for the succinct description of WB o2 sensor vs. lambda. =
Basically for stock applications, never running very rich or lean, a =
simple lambda monitor will do for tuning, but when you want to run out =
of the range of a standard o2 i.e. lean burn like the Honda these o2 =
sensors come from, or rich like a turbo'ed engine or long duration =
cam'ed engine, the WB is the only way to measure the mixture, other than =
power output measurements. A side note: In aircraft, the engine runs =
steady state at 85% power or more. You simply pull the mixture control =
until the engine slows slightly, and then richen it up a hair. This =
would be great in a car, exept were can you run almost wide open for 20 =
min at a time, besides a dyno? Too bad there aren't more dry lakes =
around...
the Real question... has anybody had luck finding and using a WB sensor =
from a lean burn Civic in the wrecking yard?
--Karl
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel Nicoson=20
To: A list for Do-It-Yourself EFI=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore
Jim,
Steve wants the WB so he can tune more accurately. The WB allows him =
to have an accurate AFR anywhere between AFR=3D10 and AFR=3D20. The =
narrow band are optimized for the AFR=3D14.7 ratio that is ideal for =
emissions compliance, any extrapolation of their response curve beyond =
that narrow range is inaccurate. The narrow band 02 is only used by the =
factory ECU during closed loop - low power use. During WOT the WB rules =
because you can adjust your fuel tables to achieve whatever AFR the =
engine combo likes.
He's trying to incorporate the NB operation also to let the factory =
ECU work normally during low power. Some of the store-bought units do =
that NB operation also.
Steve,
Some of the store bought units have really come down in price, I think =
$350 is the low end.
Another thought, for $6 and some welding you can add a third bung and =
run the factory NB in their stock location, put any WB in the third bung =
and tune away. That's what I do. I have a DIY-WB permanently installed =
and let the factory NB stay in their usual location.
Dan Nicoson
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org =
[mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Jim Butterfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:47 AM
To: A list for Do-It-Yourself EFI
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore
Pardon me for just jumping in here... whats the problem with NB O2 =
sensors and why would you want WB O2's????
steve broski <sjbroski at msn.com> wrote:=20
i want to replace both NBO2's in my S/C3800 GM with WBO2's. i =
found the=20
schematics and info at the WB-DIY site for using the L1H1 UEGOS. i =
thought=20
with some additions for another 0-1V out for PCM to control from, =
it would=20
work pretty well. however the cost of that sensor is a little. . =
.steep. the=20
bosch LSU4 can be had for about $40. much more doable. it seems =
the above=20
mentioned control circuit won't work. i can find no sources for =
specs on=20
LSU4. anybody have any info that might help? that would be really =
fantastic.=20
i have my eye on a sanner/tuner for my car that has 3 additional =
A/I's(2 for=20
WB and 1 for whatever i want)so i can do some tuning. thanks for =
any and all=20
help. steve
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan, Thanks for the succinct =
description of=20
WB o2 sensor vs. lambda. Basically for stock applications, never running =
very=20
rich or lean, a simple lambda monitor will do for tuning, but when =
you want=20
to run out of the range of a standard o2 i.e. lean burn like the =
Honda=20
these o2 sensors come from, or rich like a turbo'ed engine or long =
duration=20
cam'ed engine, the WB is the only way to measure the mixture, other than =
power=20
output measurements. A side note: In aircraft, the engine runs =
steady=20
state at 85% power or more. You simply pull the mixture control =
until the=20
engine slows slightly, and then richen it up a hair. This would be =
great=20
in a car, exept were can you run almost wide open for 20 min at a time, =
besides=20
a dyno? Too bad there aren't more dry lakes around...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the Real question... has anybody had =
luck finding=20
and using a WB sensor from a lean burn Civic in the wrecking =
yard?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--Karl</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DA6intruder at adelphia.net =
href=3D"mailto:A6intruder at adelphia.net">Daniel=20
Nicoson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">A list for Do-It-Yourself EFI</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 22, =
2005 6:38=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Diy_efi] wbo2 =
questions=20
galore</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Jim,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Steve wants the WB so he can tune more accurately. The =
WB allows=20
him to have an accurate AFR anywhere between AFR=3D10 and =
AFR=3D20. The=20
narrow band are optimized for the AFR=3D14.7 ratio that is ideal for =
emissions=20
compliance, any extrapolation of their response curve beyond that =
narrow range=20
is inaccurate. The narrow band 02 is only used by the factory =
ECU during=20
closed loop - low power use. During WOT the WB rules because you =
can=20
adjust your fuel tables to achieve whatever AFR the engine combo=20
likes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>He's=20
trying to incorporate the NB operation also to let the factory =
ECU work=20
normally during low power. Some of the store-bought units do =
that NB=20
operation also.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Some=20
of the store bought units have really come down in price, I think $350 =
is the=20
low end.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Another thought, for $6 and some welding you can add a third =
bung and=20
run the factory NB in their stock location, put any WB in the third =
bung and=20
tune away. That's what I do. I have a DIY-WB permanently =
installed=20
and let the factory NB stay in their usual =
location.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dan Nicoson<BR> </FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org =
[mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]<B>On Behalf=20
Of </B>Jim Butterfield<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 22, 2005 =
7:47=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> A list for Do-It-Yourself EFI<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
[Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Pardon me for just jumping in here... whats the problem with NB =
O2=20
sensors and why would you want WB O2's????<BR><BR><B><I>steve broski =
<sjbroski at msn.com></I></B> wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff =
2px solid">i=20
want to replace both NBO2's in my S/C3800 GM with WBO2's. i found =
the=20
<BR>schematics and info at the WB-DIY site for using the L1H1 =
UEGOS. i=20
thought <BR>with some additions for another 0-1V out for PCM to =
control=20
from, it would <BR>work pretty well. however the cost of that =
sensor is a=20
little. . .steep. the <BR>bosch LSU4 can be had for about $40. =
much more=20
doable. it seems the above <BR>mentioned control circuit won't =
work. i can=20
find no sources for specs on <BR>LSU4. anybody have any info that =
might=20
help? that would be really fantastic. <BR>i have my eye on a =
sanner/tuner=20
for my car that has 3 additional A/I's(2 for <BR>WB and 1 for =
whatever i=20
want)so i can do some tuning. thanks for any and all <BR>help.=20
=
steve<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>diy_e=
fi=20
mailing=20
=
list<BR>diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/=
diy_efi<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Search presents - <A=20
=
href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D30648/*http://movies.yahoo.com/movie=
s/feature/jibjabinaugural.html">Jib=20
Jab's 'Second Term'</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>diy_efi =
mailing=20
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