[Diy_efi] Megasquirt

[wds]

OK, let's see if I can irritate as many people as I once could... since 
I am almost one of them.
First, the disclaimers:
1. I wouldn't know Bruce Bowling if he brought his dog over to wet my leg.
2. I do not own any of his products nor do I participate in any of his 
forums.

    My intended project has been on hold for way too long but I keep 
looking and learning in whatever ways I find. I am a dropout. I haven't 
kept up with automotive developments since 1973.  Although way behind on 
many things, I still consider myself trainable even if I am slow and old.
  I have loosely monitored this list for whatever I could learn.
Frankly, it wasn't much. Most of the topics were outside my area of 
interest and those that weren't wore usually over my head.  Eventually, 
I was dropped from the list due to bounced emails (No idea why.) and 
ignored the requests to rejoin.  Somehow, I got back on the list anyway.

Over the years, I have dropped off a number of lists for exactly the 
reasons Mr. Bowling lists. Most lists quickly develop a group of 
"regulars" who soon become elitist sounding and unhospitable to mere 
mortals. One example is a list I quit because of a reply to an 
"introduction post"  from a 15 year old kid. He said he was into 
robotics and wanted a small vertical CNC mill to make some of his parts. 
He went on to say he had a little over $1K  saved up and was looking at 
a short list of candidates.
    He was overwhelmed with other ideas but none of them offered any 
help or encouragement.  Don't waste your money. Go buy XXXX for about 
$2K to $3K, spend $2k modernizing and repairing and $10K for software 
may make the adviser feel like a big shot but they don't do much for a 
high school kid.
    Please don't see this as anything other than my most honest view on 
the state of discussion groups in general.  I have a pretty thick skin 
but I also think people should be honest with each other at times.  I 
have no idea how I got to this list the first time and have never seen a 
statement of purpose.
   That's fine with me... BUT,
Some groups do have a purpose and, at times, a narrow purpose. If there 
is a stated purpose, stick to it, even if you have to change the purpose 
statement to reflect whatever has been added, deleted or changed. I 
realize this is a big world with enough people it  may not matter who we 
insult or belittle, but I still believe common decency is a necessary 
inconvenience.
That in mind, I'm happy to hear Mr. MegaSquirt is sticking to purpose.  
I hope the forums there can avoid the lure of the Elite Internet Expert 
because some of us can't tell real from fake until long after a series 
of very expensive fake- expert-advice based disasters.  I'm too old and 
poor for that.
W. Dale Smith


.



On 2/20/2011 9:13 AM, Bruce A Bowling wrote:
>
>     I can't say I like the heavy handed discrimination against all
>     things non-MS on their forums, but if they did the work, they can
>     make the rules.  I wondered why people would pay what they were
>     asking for obsolete hardware kits instead of buying other cheap
>     (~$50 at the time) assembled and tested Motorola based SBCs and
>     running the code there.  Found out that trying to discuss such a
>     thing will reportedly get you banned from the forums.  Again
>     though, if B&G wrote it, it's their call what they do with it and
>     no hard feelings about it.
>
> John,
> Good post, and I, too agree that it appears that some MS forums 
> are very restrictive. In fact, people being "banished" from the forum 
> is the reason for the "Crush MegaSquirt" campaign that we have 
> all been waiting years and years for to actually happen.
> Here is the reason why we focus on only specific MS topics on specific 
> forums. Every day we have brand new users come online using MS 
> controllers for their vehicles, engines, etc. They are already 
> intimidated to the extreme, having no clue of what any of this is or 
> does. They come to the forum wanting specific questions on how to 
> implement their MS on their setup. We try our level best to have an 
> environment for them that is simple and focused on getting their MS 
> installed. Having posts on subjects outside of getting a MS running on 
> their setup is not helpful to someone who has the simple goal of 
> getting their engine running on MS. And, unmanaged forums quickly 
> degenerate, especially when they are a goal-oriented forum set out to 
> accomplish a task. So we try to keep the geek-talk, rants/raves, and 
> off-topic posts off of the MS working forum.
> Now, once that person has obtained the knowledge and the 
> experience/confidence to get MS installed, there are many, many other 
> forums all over the place that they can go to to ask any question that 
> they want, do product comparisons, ask about implementing code on 
> different platforms, etc. For example - this very forum right here, 
> people can ask and talk about anything they want.
> So, the intent is not to be constrictive or oppresive (and I do 
> apologize to you if this was your experience there), but we have a 
> obligation to a new user to provide them with the best tools and 
> methods, and to discuss topics that will get them to be successful 
> with their installation. Part of the blame may be on us to not be 
> clear enough on this point (and that we *actually* exercise moderation 
> on the forum), its something we need to improve.
> - Bruce
>
>
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