From ahuxtable at sola.com.au Mon Apr 3 18:01:31 2006 From: ahuxtable at sola.com.au (ahuxtable at sola.com.au) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:31:31 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's Message-ID: Thanks for the extra info Dustin. The misfire is really intermittent. Plug gaps were triple checked and the coil has also been replaced. Along with the misfire there is also a violent act of the tacho dropping down. This leads me more to thing that it could be something like the coil/ignition module losing power (or the ECM altogether). It's a sort of CBF factor as it's ok most of the time. On a slightly different note however - It seems to be *almost* perfect over the last few days while I've had the 10k resister in the ALDL connector (logging or not). Maybe it is the ECM after all...Then again, it could be complete coincidence since the weather here has just taken a bit of a cold snap. Ahh, I love cars... Andrew -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dustin Lof Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 10:49 AM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's Your misfire problem will cause low block learn numbers. Less than 128 the ecm is subrtracting fuel more than 128 it is adding fuel. Just because the cap rotor, wires etc. is all new does not necessarly mean it is good, what is the spark plug gap at every plug, how many kv is the coil able to produce, what is available at the wires. Invest in an adjustable spark tester, one that is marked in kv, and check each wire. Set it to about 20,000 connect it to one wire, start the engine, make sure the spark is jumping the gap of the tester and not somewhere else, shut the engine off and move the tester to the next cylinder and repeat the process. also check the spark plug gaps, maybee one got smashed shut, or to .010 when it should be .035, if one is .010 less than the rest it will idle like a top but under a load at light throttle it will misfire like crazy. especially a small 4 cylinder Dustin Lof --- ahuxtable at sola.com.au wrote: > Thanks for that Gene (and Steve - See further down) > > As for your problem Gene, that was some of the first > things I checked on > this engine because oddly enough, it has a misfire > problem. > > I changed all plugs, leads, Cap, Button ignition > module and ECM and it > still does it. It's not all the time, generally > when hot and I rev over > 4k RPM. It sorta sounds as if I'm hitting rev limit > but I'm not. > > Still trying to find the cause of that one (which is > also partly why I > hooked up the lappy) > > Steve, I get it now. The BLM's being low is not > that it's physically > rich at that point, moreso that it is removing fuel > because it 'was'. > Makes so much more sense now that fuel is getting in > somewhere else (As > Dave mentioned). Will have to play some more. > > Thanks for your help guys! > > Andrew > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of Randy & Gene > Sent: Tuesday, 28 March 2006 11:10 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > Hi Andrew, today I solved a 3 year mystery as > to why my 1993 > Pontiac > Sunbird with a 3.1 V6 did exactly what your engine > is doing. I had taken > it > to a dealer and Mr. Goodwrench charged me close to > $1300 Cdn and > couldn't > fix the problem in 13 hours. I took it to another > fellow who had worked > for > GM and he changed the upper and lower manifold > gaskets citing there was > a > vacuum leak..$500...and another emissions shop > charged me close to $200 > for > telling me it had a vacuum leak near the back of the > engine because when > he > sprayed a liquid in that area the engine sped up a > bit......this car has > a > full body kit installed otherwise I would have towed > it to the wrecking > yard...anyway...I bought a 1992 Sunbird with the > same engine for > $350....bought a manual and laptop from E Bay and > proceeded to swap > parts > out...O2,EGR,TPS,MAP,ECU and even checked every mile > of cable harness > for > resistance...everything including injectors were > swapped, throttle > body.........nothing helped...then I decided to > start over with > basics....a > simple compression test was first.....pulled all of > the spark plug boots > first then took out the 3 front plugs and number one > from the > back....number > 3 was missing....or at least half of it was...part > stuck in the boot and > the > other in the head......compression was good on all > and when I supplied a > plug from my parts car the 3.1 lit up like it was > new..........you can't > imagine my joy........the only code I ever got was a > 45....rich O2...it > had > been replaced...a broken plug........make sure your > basic stuff is in > order > first and good luck.....Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:04 PM > Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > Hi all. I've been trying to work out why for some > reason my car has > been running rich. I just always assumed that it > was the O2 sensor > playing up - Until yesterday that is... > > I logged some data and the highest BLM I saw was > 120. Most being around > 115 so my engine is running fairly rich. So, the > computer thinks that > it's running rich and it actually is = not O2 > sensor. Next I thought it > might be the CTS or MAT sensors but logging them, > it's all normal. CTS > reports running temp of ~85DegC (184DegF) and MAT is > reading as expected > too. > > What else could be forcing the engine to run rich? > > Thanks > Andrew > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From sfeaver at magma.ca Mon Apr 3 22:38:23 2006 From: sfeaver at magma.ca (Scott Feaver) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:38:23 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's References: Message-ID: <002901c65799$3a3dcfa0$0601a8c0@scott> This may not be correct, but the few times I have had a jumping (or dropping) tach, it has been an ignition module problem. Its only been on GM V6 motors with DIS, but have done it with both a 3.1 and a 3.8. Replacing the module has solved my problem. Just food for thought... Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 7:01 PM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > Thanks for the extra info Dustin. > > The misfire is really intermittent. Plug gaps were triple checked and > the coil has also been replaced. > > Along with the misfire there is also a violent act of the tacho dropping > down. This leads me more to thing that it could be something like the > coil/ignition module losing power (or the ECM altogether). It's a sort > of CBF factor as it's ok most of the time. > > On a slightly different note however - It seems to be *almost* perfect > over the last few days while I've had the 10k resister in the ALDL > connector (logging or not). Maybe it is the ECM after all...Then again, > it could be complete coincidence since the weather here has just taken a > bit of a cold snap. > > > Ahh, I love cars... > > Andrew > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of Dustin Lof > Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 10:49 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > Your misfire problem will cause low block learn > numbers. Less than 128 the ecm is subrtracting fuel > more than 128 it is adding fuel. > > Just because the cap rotor, wires etc. is all new does > not necessarly mean it is good, what is the spark plug > gap at every plug, how many kv is the coil able to > produce, what is available at the wires. Invest in an > adjustable spark tester, one that is marked in kv, and > check each wire. Set it to about 20,000 connect it to > one wire, start the engine, make sure the spark is > jumping the gap of the tester and not somewhere else, > shut the engine off and move the tester to the next > cylinder and repeat the process. also check the spark > plug gaps, maybee one got smashed shut, or to .010 > when it should be .035, if one is .010 less than the > rest it will idle like a top but under a load at light > throttle it will misfire like crazy. especially a > small 4 cylinder > > Dustin Lof > > --- ahuxtable at sola.com.au wrote: > > > Thanks for that Gene (and Steve - See further down) > > > > As for your problem Gene, that was some of the first > > things I checked on > > this engine because oddly enough, it has a misfire > > problem. > > > > I changed all plugs, leads, Cap, Button ignition > > module and ECM and it > > still does it. It's not all the time, generally > > when hot and I rev over > > 4k RPM. It sorta sounds as if I'm hitting rev limit > > but I'm not. > > > > Still trying to find the cause of that one (which is > > also partly why I > > hooked up the lappy) > > > > Steve, I get it now. The BLM's being low is not > > that it's physically > > rich at that point, moreso that it is removing fuel > > because it 'was'. > > Makes so much more sense now that fuel is getting in > > somewhere else (As > > Dave mentioned). Will have to play some more. > > > > Thanks for your help guys! > > > > Andrew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > > Behalf Of Randy & Gene > > Sent: Tuesday, 28 March 2006 11:10 AM > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > Hi Andrew, today I solved a 3 year mystery as > > to why my 1993 > > Pontiac > > Sunbird with a 3.1 V6 did exactly what your engine > > is doing. I had taken > > it > > to a dealer and Mr. Goodwrench charged me close to > > $1300 Cdn and > > couldn't > > fix the problem in 13 hours. I took it to another > > fellow who had worked > > for > > GM and he changed the upper and lower manifold > > gaskets citing there was > > a > > vacuum leak..$500...and another emissions shop > > charged me close to $200 > > for > > telling me it had a vacuum leak near the back of the > > engine because when > > he > > sprayed a liquid in that area the engine sped up a > > bit......this car has > > a > > full body kit installed otherwise I would have towed > > it to the wrecking > > yard...anyway...I bought a 1992 Sunbird with the > > same engine for > > $350....bought a manual and laptop from E Bay and > > proceeded to swap > > parts > > out...O2,EGR,TPS,MAP,ECU and even checked every mile > > of cable harness > > for > > resistance...everything including injectors were > > swapped, throttle > > body.........nothing helped...then I decided to > > start over with > > basics....a > > simple compression test was first.....pulled all of > > the spark plug boots > > first then took out the 3 front plugs and number one > > from the > > back....number > > 3 was missing....or at least half of it was...part > > stuck in the boot and > > the > > other in the head......compression was good on all > > and when I supplied a > > plug from my parts car the 3.1 lit up like it was > > new..........you can't > > imagine my joy........the only code I ever got was a > > 45....rich O2...it > > had > > been replaced...a broken plug........make sure your > > basic stuff is in > > order > > first and good luck.....Gene > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 8:04 PM > > Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > > > Hi all. I've been trying to work out why for some > > reason my car has > > been running rich. I just always assumed that it > > was the O2 sensor > > playing up - Until yesterday that is... > > > > I logged some data and the highest BLM I saw was > > 120. Most being around > > 115 so my engine is running fairly rich. So, the > > computer thinks that > > it's running rich and it actually is = not O2 > > sensor. Next I thought it > > might be the CTS or MAT sensors but logging them, > > it's all normal. CTS > > reports running temp of ~85DegC (184DegF) and MAT is > > reading as expected > > too. > > > > What else could be forcing the engine to run rich? > > > > Thanks > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From efi at dyakron.com Tue Apr 4 08:29:50 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 09:29:50 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's In-Reply-To: <002901c65799$3a3dcfa0$0601a8c0@scott> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060404092616.03525cd0@dyakron.com> I had these symptoms with a bad set of ignition wires. The big clue is that it happened under load (higher cylinder pressures). It also occurred more in wet / rainy weather. It would missfire and the tach needle would drop. MV At 11:38 PM 4/3/2006 -0400, you wrote: >This may not be correct, but the few times I have had a jumping (or >dropping) tach, it has been an ignition module problem. Its only been on >GM V6 motors with DIS, but have done it with both a 3.1 and a 3.8. >Replacing the module has solved my problem. Just food for thought... > >Scott >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 7:01 PM >Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > Thanks for the extra info Dustin. > > > > The misfire is really intermittent. Plug gaps were triple checked and > > the coil has also been replaced. > > > > Along with the misfire there is also a violent act of the tacho dropping > > down. This leads me more to thing that it could be something like the > > coil/ignition module losing power (or the ECM altogether). It's a sort > > of CBF factor as it's ok most of the time. > > > > On a slightly different note however - It seems to be *almost* perfect > > over the last few days while I've had the 10k resister in the ALDL > > connector (logging or not). Maybe it is the ECM after all...Then again, > > it could be complete coincidence since the weather here has just taken a > > bit of a cold snap. > > > > > > Ahh, I love cars... > > > > Andrew > > From gene.mcdonald at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 4 08:54:01 2006 From: gene.mcdonald at sympatico.ca (Randy & Gene) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:54:01 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060404092616.03525cd0@dyakron.com> Message-ID: On my 93 Pontiac Sunbird with a 3.1 V6 I found a badly shielded cable between the crank sensor and the electronic ignition module,, tac was all over the place. It's shielded with foil like on a cigarette package that breaks down over time. It took a few hours to remove but after being wrapped with tin foil it works like new and no more tac swing and rough engine. RFI gets into the ECU and interfers with other signals. Good Luck...Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike V" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's I had these symptoms with a bad set of ignition wires. The big clue is that it happened under load (higher cylinder pressures). It also occurred more in wet / rainy weather. It would missfire and the tach needle would drop. MV At 11:38 PM 4/3/2006 -0400, you wrote: >This may not be correct, but the few times I have had a jumping (or >dropping) tach, it has been an ignition module problem. Its only been on >GM V6 motors with DIS, but have done it with both a 3.1 and a 3.8. >Replacing the module has solved my problem. Just food for thought... > >Scott >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 7:01 PM >Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > Thanks for the extra info Dustin. > > > > The misfire is really intermittent. Plug gaps were triple checked and > > the coil has also been replaced. > > > > Along with the misfire there is also a violent act of the tacho dropping > > down. This leads me more to thing that it could be something like the > > coil/ignition module losing power (or the ECM altogether). It's a sort > > of CBF factor as it's ok most of the time. > > > > On a slightly different note however - It seems to be *almost* perfect > > over the last few days while I've had the 10k resister in the ALDL > > connector (logging or not). Maybe it is the ECM after all...Then again, > > it could be complete coincidence since the weather here has just taken a > > bit of a cold snap. > > > > > > Ahh, I love cars... > > > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From rgmecm at yahoo.com Tue Apr 4 21:28:05 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060405022805.75803.qmail@web35908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everone, I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free space. I found some information about the P6 family with dual processors and a 27512 eprom and/or flash memory. Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what I'm really talking about is a P66? At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I know these have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs out there such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented disassemblies??? Maybe more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? Or ANY ECM a few steps above the P4? Thanks, Ryan --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Wed Apr 5 10:18:20 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 10:18:20 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Message-ID: Ryan, are you writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it posted one of these days. --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > Hi everone, > > I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At > the moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free > space. I found some information about the P6 family with > dual processors and a 27512 eprom and/or flash memory. > > Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the > OBDII LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and > what I'm really talking about is a P66? > > At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I > know these have been hacked, or at least enough to create > the programs out there such as LT1edit (?). Are there any > commented disassemblies??? Maybe more importantly, are > there any schematics of these ECMs? Or ANY ECM a few steps > above the P4? > > Thanks, > Ryan > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > ridiculously low rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Wed Apr 5 15:03:56 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:03:56 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Message-ID: <443422AC.80009@highspeedlink.net> What is "modula"? Is there a "family tree" of GM ECMs, from the earliest digital (which was...?) through the modern ones? Will > From: "Steve Ravet" > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > Ryan, are you writing your own code that you've run out of memory and > CPU cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and there > are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package for the 96 and 97 > pickups, and probably others as well. I'm currently working on a USB<-> > VPW cable that can be used for scan tool and reflashing functions on > these computers. > > These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so there won't be > any commented disassemblies. I do have some information on the > internals of these PCMs, I need to get it posted one of these days. > > --steve > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> >> Hi everone, >> >> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At >> the moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >> space. I found some information about the P6 family with >> dual processors and a 27512 eprom and/or flash memory. >> >> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the >> OBDII LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and >> what I'm really talking about is a P66? >> >> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >> know these have been hacked, or at least enough to create >> the programs out there such as LT1edit (?). Are there any >> commented disassemblies??? Maybe more importantly, are >> there any schematics of these ECMs? Or ANY ECM a few steps >> above the P4? >> >> Thanks, >> Ryan From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Wed Apr 5 15:18:05 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:18:05 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Torque converter clutch on 1226869 Message-ID: <443425FD.2080400@highspeedlink.net> I had heard that the '85 Fiero ECM had knock sensing capabilities built in... I hadn't heard that it had boost awareness and wastegate control as well! Dam. I may have to look into that further for a project or two. What ECM was used in the 86-88 Fieros? What code mask does the 6869 have? Will > From: "David Allen" > Subject: [Gmecm] Torque converter clutch on 1226869 > > I'm playing with my 6869-controlled turbo car, and trying to get the ECM > to control the torque converter clutch. It seems there are no numbers I can > put in the calibration which will actuate the TCC output. > I have a test light on the TCC ouptut at the ECM to emiminate any other > external factors. Some things I have verified: > > Scan data shows the trans in "Drive" > Scan data shows coolant is hot. > Scan data indicates vehicle speed; and is reasonably correct. > Scan data indicates TPS is working; and is reasonably accurate. > No DTC's present. > "Automatic Transmission" is selected in the ECM calibration. > Test light does work when manually grouned. > > I have tried putting very "loose" boundaries in the ECM to make it lock up > most of the time but can't get it to illuminate the light. No combination > of road speed and throttle position will make it actuate. The schematic does > not indicate any high gear switch on this ECM. What can I be overlooking? > Thanks in advance, > David > From: "David Allen" > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Torque converter clutch on 1226869 > > Zaphod, the .bin started out as FTX 9349 which is an 85 Fiero 2.8 > automatic. I have selected "2-bar MAP" in the ECM switch table and left > "transmission type" unchecked since "X = manual" Then the spark and fuel > tables have also been tuned somewhat. > Another thing I can't make work no matter what I place in the .bin is the > wastegate bypass control. I am wondering if I need to start out with a > different .bin but there aren't many out there for this ECM. > Thanks, > David From jryan at caminofx.org Wed Apr 5 15:19:59 2006 From: jryan at caminofx.org (Jared Ryan) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:19:59 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: <443422AC.80009@highspeedlink.net> References: <443422AC.80009@highspeedlink.net> Message-ID: Modula is a programming language. I am not familiar with it myself (I am on the list to hopefully learn some things) but I found articules about Modula and Modula-2 on Wikipedia that told me some interesting background on the languages. On Apr 5, 2006, at 3:03 PM, William Lucke wrote: > What is "modula"? > Is there a "family tree" of GM ECMs, from the earliest digital (which > was...?) through the modern ones? > > > Will > > > >> From: "Steve Ravet" >> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> Ryan, are you writing your own code that you've run out of memory and >> CPU cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and >> there >> are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package for the 96 and >> 97 >> pickups, and probably others as well. I'm currently working on a >> USB<-> >> VPW cable that can be used for scan tool and reflashing functions on >> these computers. >> These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so there won't >> be >> any commented disassemblies. I do have some information on the >> internals of these PCMs, I need to get it posted one of these days. >> --steve >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] >>> On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>> Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>> >>> Hi everone, >>> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the >>> moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free space. I >>> found some information about the P6 family with dual processors and >>> a 27512 eprom and/or flash memory. Now as far as I know, these >>> are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII LT1's and other cars. Or >>> maybe I'm all mixed up and what I'm really talking about is a P66? >>> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I know >>> these have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs >>> out there such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented >>> disassemblies??? Maybe more importantly, are there any schematics >>> of these ECMs? Or ANY ECM a few steps above the P4? >>> Thanks, >>> Ryan > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Wed Apr 5 15:20:37 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:20:37 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Olda Aurora DIS unit Message-ID: <44342695.9000503@highspeedlink.net> What are you trying to do with it? One of the subscribers here is running a N* with a 7730. The timing wheel is part of the crank shaft. Will > From: "David Allen" > Subject: [Gmecm] Olda Aurora DIS unit > > Hey, has anyone any experience with the Olds Aurora 4.0 V8 DIS ignition > unit? Accorging to factory docs it provedes the PCM with 4x and 24x > reference, plus cam signal. Has anyone ever tried to adapt it to a simpler > ECM such as a 1227747? As in taking the DIS unit, its sensors and trigger > wheels as a complete set, and adapting the timing signal to a different ECM > that didn't originally use a 24x signal? > Later, > David From doug at chaserace.com Thu Apr 6 10:24:20 2006 From: doug at chaserace.com (Doug Chase) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 08:24:20 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] Torque converter clutch on 1226869 In-Reply-To: <443425FD.2080400@highspeedlink.net> Message-ID: <0IXB00DBA44MK5W0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> '86 - '88 V6 Fieros were 1227170 Doug Chase www.chaserace.com 425-269-5636 -----Original Message----- From: William Lucke I had heard that the '85 Fiero ECM had knock sensing capabilities built in... I hadn't heard that it had boost awareness and wastegate control as well! Dam. I may have to look into that further for a project or two. What ECM was used in the 86-88 Fieros? What code mask does the 6869 have? Will From rgmecm at yahoo.com Thu Apr 6 17:38:55 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 15:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060406223855.46120.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available to add some extra features. Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the source code, is there any way around the compiled code? Ryan Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it posted one of these days. --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > Hi everone, > > I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At > the moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free > space. I found some information about the P6 family with > dual processors and a 27512 eprom and/or flash memory. > > Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the > OBDII LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and > what I'm really talking about is a P66? > > At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I > know these have been hacked, or at least enough to create > the programs out there such as LT1edit (?). Are there any > commented disassemblies??? Maybe more importantly, are > there any schematics of these ECMs? Or ANY ECM a few steps > above the P4? > > Thanks, > Ryan > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > ridiculously low rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. From mmansur at hotmail.com Thu Apr 6 18:06:01 2006 From: mmansur at hotmail.com (Mark Mansur) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 16:06:01 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? References: <20060406223855.46120.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds like the following is for you... http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/326987-4kb-nvram-expansion-board.html -Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Hess" To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:38 PM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some extra code space > and processing power. I'd like to be able to experiment a bit... For > instance, I'd like to be able to toggle between batch fire and sequential > to see the differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth it > to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be neat to find > out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do sequential... at least I don't > think so. It appears to be pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some > more I/O available to add some extra features. > > Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the source code, is > there any way around the compiled code? > > Ryan > > Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you writing your own > code that you've run out of memory and > CPU cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and there > are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package for the 96 and 97 > pickups, and probably others as well. I'm currently working on a USB<-> > VPW cable that can be used for scan tool and reflashing functions on > these computers. > > These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so there won't be > any commented disassemblies. I do have some information on the > internals of these PCMs, I need to get it posted one of these days. > > --steve > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> >> Hi everone, >> >> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At >> the moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >> space. I found some information about the P6 family with >> dual processors and a 27512 eprom and/or flash memory. >> >> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the >> OBDII LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and >> what I'm really talking about is a P66? >> >> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >> know these have been hacked, or at least enough to create >> the programs out there such as LT1edit (?). Are there any >> commented disassemblies??? Maybe more importantly, are >> there any schematics of these ECMs? Or ANY ECM a few steps >> above the P4? >> >> Thanks, >> Ryan >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for >> ridiculously low rates. >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy > the information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save > big. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From bubblesjrtwo at yahoo.com Thu Apr 6 21:35:47 2006 From: bubblesjrtwo at yahoo.com (Dustin Lof) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 19:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060407023547.50934.qmail@web53007.mail.yahoo.com> Gene, did the crank sensor harness go over the motor, or under the motor? Gm has released an updated harness for the 2.8 and 3.1 liter engines that gets routed under the motor to avoid electrical interference from the alternator and the plug wires leading to the rear bank. I am not sure what year, but they finally routed it that way on assembly. Dustin Lof --- Randy & Gene wrote: > On my 93 Pontiac Sunbird with a 3.1 V6 I found a > badly shielded cable > between the crank sensor and the electronic > ignition module,, tac was all > over the place. It's shielded with foil like on a > cigarette package that > breaks down over time. It took a few hours to remove > but after being wrapped > with tin foil it works like new and no more tac > swing and rough engine. RFI > gets into the ECU and interfers with other signals. > Good Luck...Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike V" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > I had these symptoms with a bad set of ignition > wires. > The big clue is that it happened under load (higher > cylinder pressures). > It also occurred more in wet / rainy weather. > It would missfire and the tach needle would drop. > MV > > At 11:38 PM 4/3/2006 -0400, you wrote: > >This may not be correct, but the few times I have > had a jumping (or > >dropping) tach, it has been an ignition module > problem. Its only been on > >GM V6 motors with DIS, but have done it with both a > 3.1 and a 3.8. > >Replacing the module has solved my problem. Just > food for thought... > > > >Scott > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: > >Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 7:01 PM > >Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > > > > Thanks for the extra info Dustin. > > > > > > The misfire is really intermittent. Plug gaps > were triple checked and > > > the coil has also been replaced. > > > > > > Along with the misfire there is also a violent > act of the tacho dropping > > > down. This leads me more to thing that it could > be something like the > > > coil/ignition module losing power (or the ECM > altogether). It's a sort > > > of CBF factor as it's ok most of the time. > > > > > > On a slightly different note however - It seems > to be *almost* perfect > > > over the last few days while I've had the 10k > resister in the ALDL > > > connector (logging or not). Maybe it is the ECM > after all...Then again, > > > it could be complete coincidence since the > weather here has just taken a > > > bit of a cold snap. > > > > > > > > > Ahh, I love cars... > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Thu Apr 6 21:38:36 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:38:36 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Message-ID: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder code to speed things up. Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, IAC, linear EGR, etc. I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the CIC and TIO! 730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. regards, --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some > extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able > to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to > toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the > differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth > it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be > neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do > sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be > pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available > to add some extra features. > > Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the > source code, is there any way around the compiled code? > > Ryan > > Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you > writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU > cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and > there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package > for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm > currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for > scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. > > These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so > there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some > information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it > posted one of these days. > > --steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > > > Hi everone, > > > > I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the > > moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free > space. I found > > some information about the P6 family with dual processors > and a 27512 > > eprom and/or flash memory. > > > > Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII > > LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what > I'm really > > talking about is a P66? > > > > At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I > know these > > have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs > out there > > such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented > disassemblies??? Maybe > > more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? > Or ANY ECM > > a few steps above the P4? > > > > Thanks, > > Ryan > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low > > rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any > attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other > person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from > your PC and save big. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From gene.mcdonald at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 6 23:08:35 2006 From: gene.mcdonald at sympatico.ca (Randy & Gene) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:08:35 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's References: <20060407023547.50934.qmail@web53007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ours was over the motor, behind the power steering and alternator..heck of a thing to get off....the foil covering the ground wire and two signal wires was corroded in several locations. Like I said before , the tach was all over the place...sure is nice to have fixed it ourselves......after dropping about $2000 Cdn to garages...it's nice to know GM fixed it...Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dustin Lof" To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's Gene, did the crank sensor harness go over the motor, or under the motor? Gm has released an updated harness for the 2.8 and 3.1 liter engines that gets routed under the motor to avoid electrical interference from the alternator and the plug wires leading to the rear bank. I am not sure what year, but they finally routed it that way on assembly. Dustin Lof --- Randy & Gene wrote: > On my 93 Pontiac Sunbird with a 3.1 V6 I found a > badly shielded cable > between the crank sensor and the electronic > ignition module,, tac was all > over the place. It's shielded with foil like on a > cigarette package that > breaks down over time. It took a few hours to remove > but after being wrapped > with tin foil it works like new and no more tac > swing and rough engine. RFI > gets into the ECU and interfers with other signals. > Good Luck...Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike V" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > I had these symptoms with a bad set of ignition > wires. > The big clue is that it happened under load (higher > cylinder pressures). > It also occurred more in wet / rainy weather. > It would missfire and the tach needle would drop. > MV > > At 11:38 PM 4/3/2006 -0400, you wrote: > >This may not be correct, but the few times I have > had a jumping (or > >dropping) tach, it has been an ignition module > problem. Its only been on > >GM V6 motors with DIS, but have done it with both a > 3.1 and a 3.8. > >Replacing the module has solved my problem. Just > food for thought... > > > >Scott > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: > >Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 7:01 PM > >Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > > > > Thanks for the extra info Dustin. > > > > > > The misfire is really intermittent. Plug gaps > were triple checked and > > > the coil has also been replaced. > > > > > > Along with the misfire there is also a violent > act of the tacho dropping > > > down. This leads me more to thing that it could > be something like the > > > coil/ignition module losing power (or the ECM > altogether). It's a sort > > > of CBF factor as it's ok most of the time. > > > > > > On a slightly different note however - It seems > to be *almost* perfect > > > over the last few days while I've had the 10k > resister in the ALDL > > > connector (logging or not). Maybe it is the ECM > after all...Then again, > > > it could be complete coincidence since the > weather here has just taken a > > > bit of a cold snap. > > > > > > > > > Ahh, I love cars... > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From rgmecm at yahoo.com Thu Apr 6 23:15:00 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060407041500.29552.qmail@web35903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that mean that they're no longer universal? Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've spent their money to make it run an engine in all conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. It seems to me like the LT1 computer with the flash prom would be a good base for an aftermarket type computer. Ryan Steve Ravet wrote: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder code to speed things up. Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, IAC, linear EGR, etc. I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the CIC and TIO! 730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. regards, --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some > extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able > to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to > toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the > differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth > it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be > neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do > sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be > pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available > to add some extra features. > > Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the > source code, is there any way around the compiled code? > > Ryan > > Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you > writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU > cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and > there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package > for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm > currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for > scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. > > These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so > there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some > information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it > posted one of these days. > > --steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > > > Hi everone, > > > > I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the > > moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free > space. I found > > some information about the P6 family with dual processors > and a 27512 > > eprom and/or flash memory. > > > > Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII > > LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what > I'm really > > talking about is a P66? > > > > At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I > know these > > have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs > out there > > such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented > disassemblies??? Maybe > > more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? > Or ANY ECM > > a few steps above the P4? > > > > Thanks, > > Ryan > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low > > rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any > attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other > person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from > your PC and save big. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From rgmecm at yahoo.com Thu Apr 6 23:16:26 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060407041626.39810.qmail@web35909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've seen that. Problem is that only solves part of the problem. I still need more speed and more I/O. Thanks though, Ryan Mark Mansur wrote: Sounds like the following is for you... http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/326987-4kb-nvram-expansion-board.html -Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Hess" To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 3:38 PM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some extra code space > and processing power. I'd like to be able to experiment a bit... For > instance, I'd like to be able to toggle between batch fire and sequential > to see the differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth it > to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be neat to find > out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do sequential... at least I don't > think so. It appears to be pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some > more I/O available to add some extra features. > > Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the source code, is > there any way around the compiled code? > > Ryan > > Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you writing your own > code that you've run out of memory and > CPU cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and there > are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package for the 96 and 97 > pickups, and probably others as well. I'm currently working on a USB<-> > VPW cable that can be used for scan tool and reflashing functions on > these computers. > > These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so there won't be > any commented disassemblies. I do have some information on the > internals of these PCMs, I need to get it posted one of these days. > > --steve > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> >> Hi everone, >> >> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At >> the moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >> space. I found some information about the P6 family with >> dual processors and a 27512 eprom and/or flash memory. >> >> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the >> OBDII LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and >> what I'm really talking about is a P66? >> >> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >> know these have been hacked, or at least enough to create >> the programs out there such as LT1edit (?). Are there any >> commented disassemblies??? Maybe more importantly, are >> there any schematics of these ECMs? Or ANY ECM a few steps >> above the P4? >> >> Thanks, >> Ryan >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for >> ridiculously low rates. >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy > the information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save > big. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Fri Apr 7 08:52:10 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:52:10 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Message-ID: <44366E8A.9090805@highspeedlink.net> I generally agree... GM has invested thousands upon thousands of engineer hours in their code to address all possible operating conditions for the engine. How many aftermarket units can enrich the mixture after a certain amount of time in PE to avoid engine damage due to overheating pistons? How many programmers even know that this is a requirement for an engine that will see long periods of time at WOT? Having played with LT1 stuff, I think the LT1 is one potential piece of the puzzle. The optical can be grafted into the base of an HEI distributor to adapt the computer to any V8 ever built with an HEI. However, precisely because of the optical pickup, it is not as adaptible beyond V8's as other GM computers. I don't know the software intimately, but the pickup (and thus position interpretation routines) are decidedly structured around 8 cylinder operation. Another possibility might be the OBDI Northstar computer. It isn't flash, but is similar to the LT1 computer in capabilities (sequential injection, but single ignition output). The code masks for it also are more readily adaptible as they accept a normal 1 pulse per ignition event triggering signal (in addition to the 6x per ignition stability signal). The code masks are set up for DIS operation. Yet a third possibility would be the Cadillac 4.9 computer. It has sequential injection, but distributor ignition and triggering. The DIY community evolved around the 7730 and related computers because they were common as dirt, not because they were the best module to use. Will > From: Ryan Hess > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that mean that they're no longer universal? > > Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've spent their money to make it run an engine in all conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. > > It seems to me like the LT1 computer with the flash prom would be a good base for an aftermarket type computer. > > Ryan > > Steve Ravet wrote: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than > writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a > living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if > it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it > will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. > Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder > code to speed things up. > > Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics > in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither > the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both > come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and > TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, > sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and > also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a > higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The > asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, > IAC, linear EGR, etc. > > I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but > there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I > think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and > running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO > and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the > CIC and TIO! > > 730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. > > regards, > --steve > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM >> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> >> I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some >> extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able >> to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to >> toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the >> differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth >> it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be >> neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do >> sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be >> pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available >> to add some extra features. >> >> Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the >> source code, is there any way around the compiled code? >> >> Ryan >> >> Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you >> writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU >> cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and >> there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package >> for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm >> currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for >> scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. >> >> These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so >> there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some >> information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it >> posted one of these days. >> >> --steve >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>> Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>> >>> Hi everone, >>> >>> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the >>> moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >> space. I found >>> some information about the P6 family with dual processors >> and a 27512 >>> eprom and/or flash memory. >>> >>> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII >>> LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what >> I'm really >>> talking about is a P66? >>> >>> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >> know these >>> have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs >> out there >>> such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented >> disassemblies??? Maybe >>> more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? >> Or ANY ECM >>> a few steps above the P4? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ryan From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Fri Apr 7 08:56:18 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:56:18 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 14, Issue 5 Message-ID: <44366F82.6040404@highspeedlink.net> I'd like to hear more about the structure of the later computers. In what applications was the 32 bit architecture used? May I assume that when you mention 18x and 3x signals that you're referring to a 6 cylinder configuration? Are the PCM's reconfigurable for different cylinder counts? Will > From: "Steve Ravet" > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than > writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a > living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if > it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it > will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. > Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder > code to speed things up. > > Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics > in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither > the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both > come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and > TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, > sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and > also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a > higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The > asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, > IAC, linear EGR, etc. > > I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but > there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I > think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and > running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO > and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the > CIC and TIO! > > 730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. > > regards, > --steve > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM >> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> >> I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some >> extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able >> to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to >> toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the >> differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth >> it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be >> neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do >> sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be >> pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available >> to add some extra features. >> >> Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the >> source code, is there any way around the compiled code? >> >> Ryan >> >> Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you >> writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU >> cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and >> there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package >> for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm >> currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for >> scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. >> >> These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so >> there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some >> information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it >> posted one of these days. >> >> --steve >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>> Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>> >>> Hi everone, >>> >>> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the >>> moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >> space. I found >>> some information about the P6 family with dual processors >> and a 27512 >>> eprom and/or flash memory. >>> >>> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII >>> LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what >> I'm really >>> talking about is a P66? >>> >>> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >> know these >>> have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs >> out there >>> such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented >> disassemblies??? Maybe >>> more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? >> Or ANY ECM >>> a few steps above the P4? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ryan From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Fri Apr 7 09:17:31 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 09:17:31 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:15 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close > to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, > does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank > reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? > In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the > cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in > the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that > mean that they're no longer universal? It's my understanding that the TIO (which is similar in concept to the CPU32 TPU) has microcode to match the engine configuration. There is an L4 box, a v6 box, and a v8 box. Architecturally I think these boxes are very similar, meaning that code written to run on one will likely run on all of them. > > Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've > spent their money to make it run an engine in all > conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not > what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. There are 2 codebases for efi332 but you're right that they're likely not as sophisticated as the GM code. On the other hand they're well documented unlike GM code, and the high level source code is available. With the GM stuff you're reverse engineering so it's difficult to gain a full understanding of the code, and therefore more tricky to make changes. Certainly there are fans of both approaches. --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Fri Apr 7 09:26:30 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 09:26:30 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 14, Issue 5 Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of William Lucke > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 8:56 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 14, Issue 5 > > I'd like to hear more about the structure of the later > computers. In what applications was the 32 bit architecture used? The particular boxes I'm experimenting with both started production in 1996 with OBD2. I have a '96 v6 computer, and a '98 vortec pickup computer. > > May I assume that when you mention 18x and 3x signals that > you're referring to a 6 cylinder configuration? > > Are the PCM's reconfigurable for different cylinder counts? I don't think so. I mentioned in another post, the TIO chip has microcode that is specific to the engine configuration. But the overall architecture of the boxes I think is similar, it terms of which devices connect to which chip select outputs. So a common set of code could be developed that has a cylinder select, you'd just have to make sure in practice that you ran the code on the proper box. With that said the efi332 code is written to only use the TPU, which is functional on the CPU32 boxes, so you could ignore the CIC/TIO altogether, then the boxes are closer to universal. --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Fri Apr 7 13:25:52 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 03:55:52 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's References: <20060407023547.50934.qmail@web53007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009e01c65a70$b3fff190$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> testing... mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dustin Lof" To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > Gene, did the crank sensor harness go over the motor, > or under the motor? Gm has released an updated > harness for the 2.8 and 3.1 liter engines that gets > routed under the motor to avoid electrical > interference from the alternator and the plug wires > leading to the rear bank. I am not sure what year, > but they finally routed it that way on assembly. > > Dustin Lof > > --- Randy & Gene wrote: > > > On my 93 Pontiac Sunbird with a 3.1 V6 I found a > > badly shielded cable > > between the crank sensor and the electronic > > ignition module,, tac was all > > over the place. It's shielded with foil like on a > > cigarette package that > > breaks down over time. It took a few hours to remove > > but after being wrapped > > with tin foil it works like new and no more tac > > swing and rough engine. RFI > > gets into the ECU and interfers with other signals. > > Good Luck...Gene > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mike V" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > > > I had these symptoms with a bad set of ignition > > wires. > > The big clue is that it happened under load (higher > > cylinder pressures). > > It also occurred more in wet / rainy weather. > > It would missfire and the tach needle would drop. > > MV > > > > At 11:38 PM 4/3/2006 -0400, you wrote: > > >This may not be correct, but the few times I have > > had a jumping (or > > >dropping) tach, it has been an ignition module > > problem. Its only been on > > >GM V6 motors with DIS, but have done it with both a > > 3.1 and a 3.8. > > >Replacing the module has solved my problem. Just > > food for thought... > > > > > >Scott > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: > > >To: > > >Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 7:01 PM > > >Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Help with unusual BLM's > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the extra info Dustin. > > > > > > > > The misfire is really intermittent. Plug gaps > > were triple checked and > > > > the coil has also been replaced. > > > > > > > > Along with the misfire there is also a violent > > act of the tacho dropping > > > > down. This leads me more to thing that it could > > be something like the > > > > coil/ignition module losing power (or the ECM > > altogether). It's a sort > > > > of CBF factor as it's ok most of the time. > > > > > > > > On a slightly different note however - It seems > > to be *almost* perfect > > > > over the last few days while I've had the 10k > > resister in the ALDL > > > > connector (logging or not). Maybe it is the ECM > > after all...Then again, > > > > it could be complete coincidence since the > > weather here has just taken a > > > > bit of a cold snap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahh, I love cars... > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From efi at dyakron.com Fri Apr 7 19:10:50 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 20:10:50 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six In-Reply-To: <009e01c65a70$b3fff190$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> References: <20060407023547.50934.qmail@web53007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060407200639.035e1290@dyakron.com> Does anyone know what sort of signaling the new GM 4200 six cylinder uses on crank & cam? It would be great (read: inexpensive) if you could adapt a 7730 or 7749 to these engines. MV From ttownsley at sprynet.com Fri Apr 7 21:30:53 2006 From: ttownsley at sprynet.com (Tyler Townsley) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 22:30:53 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: <20060407041500.29552.qmail@web35903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060407041500.29552.qmail@web35903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4437205D.3050408@sprynet.com> If you want to take the gm code to the next level look at the 90-91 zr1 corvette ecm and code (sfi, dual injectors, DIS waste spark, add the Lotus carleton version and you have turbo support) The 93-95 was redone to address OBDII but never implemented for complete OBDII., A commented 90 calibration is out there. Tyler Ryan Hess wrote: >It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that mean that they're no longer universal? > > Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've spent their money to make it run an engine in all conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. > > It seems to me like the LT1 computer with the flash prom would be a good base for an aftermarket type computer. > > Ryan > >Steve Ravet wrote: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than >writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a >living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if >it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it >will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. >Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder >code to speed things up. > >Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics >in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither >the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both >come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and >TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, >sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and >also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a >higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The >asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, >IAC, linear EGR, etc. > >I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but >there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I >think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and >running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO >and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the >CIC and TIO! > >730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. > >regards, >--steve > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM >>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> >>I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some >>extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able >>to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to >>toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the >>differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth >>it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be >>neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do >>sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be >>pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available >>to add some extra features. >> >> Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the >>source code, is there any way around the compiled code? >> >> Ryan >> >>Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you >>writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU >>cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and >>there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package >>for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm >>currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for >>scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. >> >>These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so >>there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some >>information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it >>posted one of these days. >> >>--steve >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>>Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >>>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>> >>>Hi everone, >>> >>> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the >>>moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >>> >>> >>space. I found >> >> >>>some information about the P6 family with dual processors >>> >>> >>and a 27512 >> >> >>>eprom and/or flash memory. >>> >>> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII >>>LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what >>> >>> >>I'm really >> >> >>>talking about is a P66? >>> >>> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >>> >>> >>know these >> >> >>>have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs >>> >>> >>out there >> >> >>>such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented >>> >>> >>disassemblies??? Maybe >> >> >>>more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? >>> >>> >>Or ANY ECM >> >> >>>a few steps above the P4? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low >>>rates. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>> >>-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any >>attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If >>you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender >>immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other >>person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the >>information in any medium. Thank you. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from >>your PC and save big. >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > From rgmecm at yahoo.com Fri Apr 7 23:09:28 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 21:09:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: <4437205D.3050408@sprynet.com> Message-ID: <20060408040928.7352.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Reeeeaaaally...... I wonder how hard it would be to locate that commented '90 code. Ooo... I bet anything with "ZR1" on it is going to be expensive though. Ryan Tyler Townsley wrote: If you want to take the gm code to the next level look at the 90-91 zr1 corvette ecm and code (sfi, dual injectors, DIS waste spark, add the Lotus carleton version and you have turbo support) The 93-95 was redone to address OBDII but never implemented for complete OBDII., A commented 90 calibration is out there. Tyler Ryan Hess wrote: >It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that mean that they're no longer universal? > > Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've spent their money to make it run an engine in all conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. > > It seems to me like the LT1 computer with the flash prom would be a good base for an aftermarket type computer. > > Ryan > >Steve Ravet wrote: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than >writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a >living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if >it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it >will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. >Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder >code to speed things up. > >Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics >in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither >the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both >come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and >TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, >sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and >also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a >higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The >asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, >IAC, linear EGR, etc. > >I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but >there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I >think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and >running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO >and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the >CIC and TIO! > >730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. > >regards, >--steve > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM >>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >> >>I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some >>extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able >>to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to >>toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the >>differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth >>it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be >>neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do >>sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be >>pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available >>to add some extra features. >> >> Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the >>source code, is there any way around the compiled code? >> >> Ryan >> >>Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you >>writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU >>cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and >>there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package >>for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm >>currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for >>scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. >> >>These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so >>there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some >>information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it >>posted one of these days. >> >>--steve >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>>Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >>>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>> >>>Hi everone, >>> >>> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the >>>moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >>> >>> >>space. I found >> >> >>>some information about the P6 family with dual processors >>> >>> >>and a 27512 >> >> >>>eprom and/or flash memory. >>> >>> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII >>>LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what >>> >>> >>I'm really >> >> >>>talking about is a P66? >>> >>> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >>> >>> >>know these >> >> >>>have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs >>> >>> >>out there >> >> >>>such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented >>> >>> >>disassemblies??? Maybe >> >> >>>more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? >>> >>> >>Or ANY ECM >> >> >>>a few steps above the P4? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Ryan >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low >>>rates. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>> >>-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any >>attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If >>you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender >>immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other >>person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the >>information in any medium. Thank you. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from >>your PC and save big. >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. From darrenfreed at shaw.ca Sat Apr 8 09:10:19 2006 From: darrenfreed at shaw.ca (Darren Freed) Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 09:10:19 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: <20060408040928.7352.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060408040928.7352.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4437C44B.7070602@shaw.ca> I've commented the $B0 mask, ASXH (Lotus Carlton) - its on my website: home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~umfreedd I'd think that finding one of those pcms would be the hard part... Darren Ryan Hess wrote: > Reeeeaaaally...... I wonder how hard it would be to locate that commented '90 code. Ooo... I bet anything with "ZR1" on it is going to be expensive though. > > Ryan > > Tyler Townsley wrote: If you want to take the gm code to the next level look at the 90-91 zr1 > corvette ecm and code (sfi, dual injectors, DIS waste spark, add the > Lotus carleton version and you have turbo support) The 93-95 was redone > to address OBDII but never implemented for complete OBDII., A commented > 90 calibration is out there. > > Tyler > > Ryan Hess wrote: > > >>It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that mean that they're no longer universal? >> >>Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've spent their money to make it run an engine in all conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. >> >> It seems to me like the LT1 computer with the flash prom would be a good base for an aftermarket type computer. >> >> Ryan >> >>Steve Ravet wrote: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than >>writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a >>living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if >>it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it >>will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. >>Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder >>code to speed things up. >> >>Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics >>in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither >>the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both >>come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and >>TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, >>sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and >>also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a >>higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The >>asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, >>IAC, linear EGR, etc. >> >>I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but >>there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I >>think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and >>running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO >>and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the >>CIC and TIO! >> >>730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. >> >>regards, >>--steve >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM >>>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>> >>>I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some >>>extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able >>>to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to >>>toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the >>>differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth >>>it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be >>>neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do >>>sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be >>>pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available >>>to add some extra features. >>> >>> Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the >>>source code, is there any way around the compiled code? >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>>Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you >>>writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU >>>cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and >>>there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package >>>for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm >>>currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for >>>scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. >>> >>>These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so >>>there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some >>>information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it >>>posted one of these days. >>> >>>--steve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>>>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >>>>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>>Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>>> >>>>Hi everone, >>>> >>>> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the >>>>moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >>>> >>>> >>> >>>space. I found >>> >>> >>> >>>>some information about the P6 family with dual processors >>>> >>>> >>> >>>and a 27512 >>> >>> >>> >>>>eprom and/or flash memory. >>>> >>>> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII >>>>LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what >>>> >>>> >>> >>>I'm really >>> >>> >>> >>>>talking about is a P66? >>>> >>>> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >>>> >>>> >>> >>>know these >>> >>> >>> >>>>have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs >>>> >>>> >>> >>>out there >>> >>> >>> >>>>such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented >>>> >>>> >>> >>>disassemblies??? Maybe >>> >>> >>> >>>>more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? >>>> >>>> >>> >>>Or ANY ECM >>> >>> >>> >>>>a few steps above the P4? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------------------- >>>>Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low >>>>rates. >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Gmecm mailing list >>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any >>>attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If >>>you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender >>>immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other >>>person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the >>>information in any medium. Thank you. >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from >>>your PC and save big. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > From davesnothereman at netscape.net Sun Apr 9 04:47:02 2006 From: davesnothereman at netscape.net (davesnothereman at netscape.net) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 05:47:02 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: <20060407041500.29552.qmail@web35903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C829D1AFEE935A-2BB4-A7A7@mblkn-m09.sysops.aol.com> The code that's commonly used has multiple cylinder options. But there is plenty of code which is dedicated to the engine it was designed for. The breakdown isn't hardware specific. One version of code used with the 7749 is multi-engine friendly, another is dedicated to 4 cylinders only. Same with the 165. It would be neater to see more OBDII stuff. The ZR1 used different part number ecm's and different masks. Finding the ecm for one of these cars probably will be quite tough. ZR1 guys are usually willing to pay good money to have spare parts. Zaphod -----Original Message----- From: Ryan Hess To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 21:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that mean that they're no longer universal? Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've spent their money to make it run an engine in all conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. It seems to me like the LT1 computer with the flash prom would be a good base for an aftermarket type computer. Ryan Steve Ravet wrote: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder code to speed things up. Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, IAC, linear EGR, etc. I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the CIC and TIO! 730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. regards, --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some > extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able > to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to > toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the > differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth > it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be > neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do > sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be > pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available > to add some extra features. > > Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the > source code, is there any way around the compiled code? > > Ryan > > Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you > writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU > cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and > there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package > for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm > currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for > scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. > > These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so > there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some > information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it > posted one of these days. > > --steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? > > > > Hi everone, > > > > I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the > > moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free > space. I found > > some information about the P6 family with dual processors > and a 27512 > > eprom and/or flash memory. > > > > Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII > > LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what > I'm really > > talking about is a P66? > > > > At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I > know these > > have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs > out there > > such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented > disassemblies??? Maybe > > more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? > Or ANY ECM > > a few steps above the P4? > > > > Thanks, > > Ryan > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low > > rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any > attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other > person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from > your PC and save big. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm ___________________________________________________ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com From ttownsley at sprynet.com Sun Apr 9 09:28:57 2006 From: ttownsley at sprynet.com (Tyler Townsley) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 10:28:57 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? In-Reply-To: <20060408040928.7352.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060408040928.7352.qmail@web35910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44391A29.70705@sprynet.com> Since the printout is 1100+ pages its not easily copied for distribution. I bought an extra ecm for $100 the expensive item is the dis module $450 for a good one. Got several bad one, sure wish someone fixed them. Tyler Ryan Hess wrote: >Reeeeaaaally...... I wonder how hard it would be to locate that commented '90 code. Ooo... I bet anything with "ZR1" on it is going to be expensive though. > > Ryan > >Tyler Townsley wrote: If you want to take the gm code to the next level look at the 90-91 zr1 >corvette ecm and code (sfi, dual injectors, DIS waste spark, add the >Lotus carleton version and you have turbo support) The 93-95 was redone >to address OBDII but never implemented for complete OBDII., A commented >90 calibration is out there. > >Tyler > >Ryan Hess wrote: > > > >>It may be better than *writing* assembly, but makes it close to impossible for us to undo their thoughts. On the ASICs, does this mean that we're stuck using whatever crank reluctor and # cylinders they're originally intended for? In otherwords, with the 7730, you can just change the cylinder select and run anything. If the timing logic is in the hardware, and built for one specific app, doesn't that mean that they're no longer universal? >> >>Now here's my deal - I very much like the GM code. They've spent their money to make it run an engine in all conditions. I scanned over the EFI332 stuff, and it's not what I want. It appears to be similar to the megasquirt project. >> >> It seems to me like the LT1 computer with the flash prom would be a good base for an aftermarket type computer. >> >> Ryan >> >>Steve Ravet wrote: I've never used modula so can't comment, but anything is better than >>writing assembly. I say that as a person who does some of that for a >>living. It still comes down to assembler in the end, it's just that if >>it was originally written in a higher level language and compiled it >>will be more difficult to figure out what is actually going on. >>Especially since compilers tend to optimize things away, and reorder >>code to speed things up. >> >>Another thing to keep in mind is that the 32 bit computers have 2 asics >>in them that handle a lot of the fuel and ignition related I/O. Neither >>the ignition outputs nor the fuel outputs are driven by the CPU. Both >>come from the asics, called CIC (configurable ignition controller) and >>TIO (timer I/O). CIC interfaces to the 18x and 3x position sensors, >>sends the data to TIO. TIO acts like a distributor for DIS apps, and >>also schedules fuel delivery. The CPU communicates with these on a >>higher level by programming advance, injector pulsewidth, etc. The >>asics figure out the details. TPU is used for things like evap purge, >>IAC, linear EGR, etc. >> >>I think these boxes are a great starting point for home grown code, but >>there's a lot that needs figuring out, particularly the TIO and CIC. I >>think it'd be fantastic to get the efi332 code bases compiled and >>running on a GM box. Maybe it can be done by ignoring the CIC and TIO >>and just using the TPU. Or maybe you can be the guy who figures out the >>CIC and TIO! >> >>730 won't do sequential because it doesn't have enough drivers. >> >>regards, >>--steve >> >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:39 PM >>>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>Subject: RE: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>> >>>I'm working with the 7730 right now, and would like some >>>extra code space and processing power. I'd like to be able >>>to experiment a bit... For instance, I'd like to be able to >>>toggle between batch fire and sequential to see the >>>differences in fuel economy and idle quality. Is it worth >>>it to an average user? I don't know... I think it would be >>>neat to find out. The 7730 isn't fast enough to do >>>sequential... at least I don't think so. It appears to be >>>pretty bloated as-is. I'd also like some more I/O available >>>to add some extra features. >>> >>> Modula doesn't sound very nice. Aside from getting the >>>source code, is there any way around the compiled code? >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>>Steve Ravet wrote: Ryan, are you >>>writing your own code that you've run out of memory and CPU >>>cycles? The 32 bit computers should have plenty of both, and >>>there are tuners available for them. tunercat has a package >>>for the 96 and 97 pickups, and probably others as well. I'm >>>currently working on a USB<-> VPW cable that can be used for >>>scan tool and reflashing functions on these computers. >>> >>>These computers are programmed in a version of modula, so >>>there won't be any commented disassemblies. I do have some >>>information on the internals of these PCMs, I need to get it >>>posted one of these days. >>> >>>--steve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org >>>>[mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess >>>>Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 9:28 PM >>>>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>>Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? >>>> >>>>Hi everone, >>>> >>>> I'm investigating possible upgrades for my P4 computer. At the >>>>moment it doesn't have enough processor power or free >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>space. I found >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>some information about the P6 family with dual processors >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>and a 27512 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>eprom and/or flash memory. >>>> >>>> Now as far as I know, these are the ECMs you'd find on the OBDII >>>>LT1's and other cars. Or maybe I'm all mixed up and what >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I'm really >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>talking about is a P66? >>>> >>>> At any rate, if the dual processor ECM is the LT1 ECM, I >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>know these >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>have been hacked, or at least enough to create the programs >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>out there >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>such as LT1edit (?). Are there any commented >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>disassemblies??? Maybe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>more importantly, are there any schematics of these ECMs? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Or ANY ECM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>a few steps above the P4? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------------------- >>>>Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low >>>>rates. >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Gmecm mailing list >>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any >>>attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If >>>you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender >>>immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other >>>person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the >>>information in any medium. Thank you. >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------- >>>New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from >>>your PC and save big. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > From jonnbell at gmail.com Sun Apr 9 22:27:02 2006 From: jonnbell at gmail.com (jb) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:27:02 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060407200639.035e1290@dyakron.com> References: <20060407023547.50934.qmail@web53007.mail.yahoo.com> <009e01c65a70$b3fff190$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> <5.1.0.14.0.20060407200639.035e1290@dyakron.com> Message-ID: <40407c390604092027r7170046cnf1f5b264e9a3df72@mail.gmail.com> weve discussed this a few times and im working on that engine myself, but the real problem is the exhaust cam phasing. check out inliners.org for their message board discussion as well On 4/7/06, Mike V wrote: > Does anyone know what sort of signaling > the new GM 4200 six cylinder uses on crank & cam? > It would be great (read: inexpensive) if you could > adapt a 7730 or 7749 to these engines. > MV > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Sun Apr 9 22:56:45 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:56:45 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Message-ID: $450 for a DIS module? Sounds like a market opportunity there. There's nothing from edist or anyone like that that will plug in place of the factory module? --steve ________________________________ From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org on behalf of Tyler Townsley Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 9:28 AM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Since the printout is 1100+ pages its not easily copied for distribution. I bought an extra ecm for $100 the expensive item is the dis module $450 for a good one. Got several bad one, sure wish someone fixed them. Tyler -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From b.shaw at comcast.net Mon Apr 10 06:48:01 2006 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:48:01 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six In-Reply-To: <40407c390604092027r7170046cnf1f5b264e9a3df72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What's the problem with exhaust cam phasing? Does this engine use variable cam timing like the Porsche Variocam to move the exhaust cam at a certain RPM? Is it electronically controlled? Bill '84 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749 '86 944 - http://bill.shaw.gotdns.com/red944/p-944fs.htm (several other 1/2 motor p-cars, too!) > From: jb > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:27:02 -0500 > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six > > weve discussed this a few times and im working on that engine myself, > but the real problem is the exhaust cam phasing. check out > inliners.org for their message board discussion as well > > On 4/7/06, Mike V wrote: >> Does anyone know what sort of signaling >> the new GM 4200 six cylinder uses on crank & cam? >> It would be great (read: inexpensive) if you could >> adapt a 7730 or 7749 to these engines. >> MV >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From efi at dyakron.com Mon Apr 10 07:44:21 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:44:21 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six In-Reply-To: References: <40407c390604092027r7170046cnf1f5b264e9a3df72@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060410083502.0352a690@dyakron.com> Hi Bill, Yes, the exhaust cam timing is altered as much as 25 degrees to maximize torque throughout the RPM range. I've heard of folks using an intake sprocket to simply lock it down. I'd like to do that, and add a 749 and a turbo. I've been looking locally for a damaged engine, just to tear it down and spin the cam and crank while watching signals with a scope. Sooner or later, I will find one. I was hoping someone had been there / done that already. Cheers, Mike V At 07:48 AM 4/10/2006 -0400, you wrote: >What's the problem with exhaust cam phasing? Does this engine use variable >cam timing like the Porsche Variocam to move the exhaust cam at a certain >RPM? Is it electronically controlled? From efi at dyakron.com Mon Apr 10 07:48:58 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:48:58 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six In-Reply-To: <40407c390604092027r7170046cnf1f5b264e9a3df72@mail.gmail.co m> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060407200639.035e1290@dyakron.com> <20060407023547.50934.qmail@web53007.mail.yahoo.com> <009e01c65a70$b3fff190$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> <5.1.0.14.0.20060407200639.035e1290@dyakron.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060410084448.0352a4c0@dyakron.com> Thanks, I will look around. I was thinking of locking the ex cam in a fix timing relationship to crank. I wouldn't mind static cam timing in this case. That is something you can debug later with some MSD parts I bet. Until then, a four valve large displacement aluminum six with static cam timing would be okay in my car Mike V At 10:27 PM 4/9/2006 -0500, you wrote: >weve discussed this a few times and im working on that engine myself, >but the real problem is the exhaust cam phasing. check out >inliners.org for their message board discussion as well From b.shaw at comcast.net Mon Apr 10 07:51:52 2006 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:51:52 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, Google shows me that it is a variable cam problem. Couldn't you use the '749's wastegate output to control the cam? Set it up to have the 'wastegate' come on at 100% duty cycle at 3500 RPM or whatever? All you need for timing for the 749 is one pulse per cylinder and vss. That shouldn't be too hard to come up with. What would you do for the electronic throttle? Bill > From: Bill Shaw > > What's the problem with exhaust cam phasing? Does this engine use variable > cam timing like the Porsche Variocam to move the exhaust cam at a certain > RPM? Is it electronically controlled? > > Bill > '84 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749 > '86 944 - http://bill.shaw.gotdns.com/red944/p-944fs.htm > (several other 1/2 motor p-cars, too!) > >> From: jb >> >> weve discussed this a few times and im working on that engine myself, >> but the real problem is the exhaust cam phasing. check out >> inliners.org for their message board discussion as well >> >> On 4/7/06, Mike V wrote: >>> Does anyone know what sort of signaling >>> the new GM 4200 six cylinder uses on crank & cam? >>> It would be great (read: inexpensive) if you could >>> adapt a 7730 or 7749 to these engines. >>> MV >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gmecm mailing list >>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From efi at dyakron.com Mon Apr 10 07:57:24 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:57:24 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Crank & Cam signals on the 4200 GM six In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060410085613.0352a6d0@dyakron.com> At 08:51 AM 4/10/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, Google shows me that it is a variable cam problem. Couldn't you use >the '749's wastegate output to control the cam? Set it up to have the >'wastegate' come on at 100% duty cycle at 3500 RPM or whatever? > >All you need for timing for the 749 is one pulse per cylinder and vss. That >shouldn't be too hard to come up with. > >What would you do for the electronic throttle? Replace it with some other GM TB from a more "manly" setup Mike V From rgmecm at yahoo.com Tue Apr 11 23:01:45 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Was: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Now: Cadillac ECM info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060412040145.66288.qmail@web35902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just found some info on a relatively common ECM that piqued my interest. Apparently, the 16132240, commonly found on 90s 4.9L cadillac engines is not only sequential, but has tons of RAM and a 512kb chip. Strangely, it's exterior looks a lot like a '7730....... Apparently in caddy style, it uses an idle motor vs an idle stepper, so don't know what it would take to address that. I think it looks promising though. Ryan --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Wed Apr 12 12:13:46 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:13:46 -0400 Subject: Was: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Now: Cadillac ECM info Message-ID: <443D354A.8020701@highspeedlink.net> I was under the impression that fundamentally there wasn't much difference between ISM and IAC operation. IE, both devices are stepper motors. The only big difference is the nose switch in the end of the ISM which closes when the driver lifts off the throttle and tells the computer that it needs to be controlling idle. IOW, an IAC ECM ought to be able to control an ISM engine, but an ISM ECM won't be able to control an IAC engine unless provision is made for a "throttle closed" switch to tell the computer when to operate the idle device. At least, that is my understanding of how the systems work. Will > From: Ryan Hess > Subject: Was: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Now: Cadillac ECM info > > I just found some info on a relatively common ECM that piqued my interest. Apparently, the 16132240, commonly found on 90s 4.9L cadillac engines is not only sequential, but has tons of RAM and a 512kb chip. Strangely, it's exterior looks a lot like a '7730....... Apparently in caddy style, it uses an idle motor vs an idle stepper, so don't know what it would take to address that. I think it looks promising though. > > Ryan From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Wed Apr 12 13:57:37 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:57:37 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Now: Cadillac ECM info Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:02 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Was: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Now: Cadillac ECM info > > > I just found some info on a relatively common ECM that piqued > my interest. Apparently, the 16132240, commonly found on > 90s 4.9L cadillac engines is not only sequential, but has > tons of RAM and a 512kb chip. Strangely, it's exterior > looks a lot like a '7730....... Apparently in caddy style, > it uses an idle motor vs an idle stepper, so don't know what > it would take to address that. I think it looks promising though. > > Ryan I was going to suggest that you go over to thirdgen but I see you've already posted there. That PCM apparently uses a linear actuator to open the throttle plates, rather than an IAC throttling an air bypass path. The 2 solutions I can think of are to adapt the cad throttle motor to your TB, or just use the cad TB. You might be able to hook the motor the the throttle itself, or maybe have it move the pintle. The other solution is electrical. According to that thirdgen thread the cad PCM uses a H bridge output to drive the actuator. An H bridge is a circuit that can drive an electric motor at different speeds by varying the voltage, and also in both directions by changing the polarity. A PIC could digitize this voltage and generate IAC steps in response. I would only pursue this if you can't make it work mechanically. Idle control doesn't have to be on the top of your todo list anyway. Do you know what CPU it uses? BTW the thirdgen thread is here: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/331767-caddy-4-9-crank.html --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From rgmecm at yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 14:16:24 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Now: Cadillac ECM info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060412191624.53113.qmail@web35909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you read some of the responses, like having the caddy computer open the throttle and try to drag the car through a stoplight... You'll see why I don't particularly like the motor idea. To me, it seems like you could use a couple digital outputs for an IAC control a lot simpler than building extra circuits. The IAC/motor problem seems relatively minor... I'm sure something can be done about it. (I also wonder if it keeps an "estimated ISM location", aka the IAC counts in the code...) Considering people have definition files for this computer, and presumably have at least a partial hac, that it would be a nice computer. I would assume that it uses dual 6811's, but don't know for sure. I particularly like the fact that 50% of the pinouts are compatible with the 7730. Repinning a harness is a piece of cake, especially when half of it is done for you :p Ryan Steve Ravet wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:02 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Was: [Gmecm] P6 ECM information? Now: Cadillac ECM info > > > I just found some info on a relatively common ECM that piqued > my interest. Apparently, the 16132240, commonly found on > 90s 4.9L cadillac engines is not only sequential, but has > tons of RAM and a 512kb chip. Strangely, it's exterior > looks a lot like a '7730....... Apparently in caddy style, > it uses an idle motor vs an idle stepper, so don't know what > it would take to address that. I think it looks promising though. > > Ryan I was going to suggest that you go over to thirdgen but I see you've already posted there. That PCM apparently uses a linear actuator to open the throttle plates, rather than an IAC throttling an air bypass path. The 2 solutions I can think of are to adapt the cad throttle motor to your TB, or just use the cad TB. You might be able to hook the motor the the throttle itself, or maybe have it move the pintle. The other solution is electrical. According to that thirdgen thread the cad PCM uses a H bridge output to drive the actuator. An H bridge is a circuit that can drive an electric motor at different speeds by varying the voltage, and also in both directions by changing the polarity. A PIC could digitize this voltage and generate IAC steps in response. I would only pursue this if you can't make it work mechanically. Idle control doesn't have to be on the top of your todo list anyway. Do you know what CPU it uses? BTW the thirdgen thread is here: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/331767-caddy-4-9-crank.html --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2?/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From rgmecm at yahoo.com Sat Apr 15 21:14:20 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 19:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit In-Reply-To: <20060412191624.53113.qmail@web35909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060416021420.32050.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi again, I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. Currently I have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it occasionally. However, I will be upgrading to some better heads soon, which will allow me to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the magic number. After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this far... but want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, after reading about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has anyone ever tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any guesstimates? How does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable of high RPM? (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors with more bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place "speed wise". Ryan --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. From rgmecm at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 18:03:17 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit In-Reply-To: <20060416021420.32050.qmail@web35912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060417230317.16584.qmail@web35904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? Or are you guys always this slow in replying? :-p Ryan Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. Currently I have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it occasionally. However, I will be upgrading to some better heads soon, which will allow me to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the magic number. After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this far... but want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, after reading about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has anyone ever tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any guesstimates? How does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable of high RPM? (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors with more bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place "speed wise". Ryan --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. From b.shaw at comcast.net Mon Apr 17 18:37:28 2006 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:37:28 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit In-Reply-To: <20060417230317.16584.qmail@web35904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my mouth shut!) but I seem to remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. let us know what you find on the bench :-) Bill > From: Ryan Hess > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? Or are you > guys always this slow in replying? :-p > > Ryan > > Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, > > I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. Currently I > have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it occasionally. > However, I will be upgrading to some better heads soon, which will allow me > to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the magic number. > After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this far... but > want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, after reading > about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has anyone ever > tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any guesstimates? How > does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable of high RPM? > (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors with more > bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place "speed wise". > > Ryan > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From rgmecm at yahoo.com Mon Apr 17 18:52:20 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:52:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060417235220.22627.qmail@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Interesting. If that's true, I wonder if I can cut out unnecessary function calls (EGR, CCP, air injection, whatever else I can find) to increase that... What is the failure mode when this limit is reached? Does it just act like a revlimiter, or crash, or ?? Thanks btw... it does help. Ryan Bill Shaw wrote: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my mouth shut!) but I seem to remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. let us know what you find on the bench :-) Bill > From: Ryan Hess > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? Or are you > guys always this slow in replying? :-p > > Ryan > > Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, > > I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. Currently I > have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it occasionally. > However, I will be upgrading to some better heads soon, which will allow me > to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the magic number. > After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this far... but > want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, after reading > about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has anyone ever > tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any guesstimates? How > does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable of high RPM? > (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors with more > bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place "speed wise". > > Ryan > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Tue Apr 18 10:08:03 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:08:03 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] ford tuning? Message-ID: I have a friend with a miata with a mustang 5.0 in it. He's failed his idle emissions (limit 220, he scored 262) test and I'm trying to get him to dive into tuning it himself instead of paying someone. Is there a forum with ford tuning expertise comparable to what this list and thirdgen offer for GM? thanks, --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From rgmecm at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 10:34:19 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:34:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit In-Reply-To: <20060417235220.22627.qmail@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060418153419.61444.qmail@web35908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Welp, I wrote a QBasic program to pulse the parallel port, and hooked my laptop directly to the computer in car. I tried taking some datalogs with tunerpro RT and freescan, and both have confirmed the findings... It appears as though RPM/25 is directly reported via the ALDL stream. It is sent as a single byte, which means that at a maximum of 255, the reported rpm value is 6375. This is where it apparently maxes out. I'm kind of surprised I hadn't noticed this before, but I guess the amount of time I spend above 6375 is minimal and close to my revlimiter, so.... I guess my next question is, how much work (ha!) would it be to turn RPM/25 into a 2 byte value? Or... would it be even simpler to change the rpm/25 measuring routine into an rpm/35 or 40?? What kind of complications am I looking at here? Thanks all, Ryan Ryan Hess wrote: Interesting. If that's true, I wonder if I can cut out unnecessary function calls (EGR, CCP, air injection, whatever else I can find) to increase that... What is the failure mode when this limit is reached? Does it just act like a revlimiter, or crash, or ?? Thanks btw... it does help. Ryan Bill Shaw wrote: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my mouth shut!) but I seem to remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. let us know what you find on the bench :-) Bill > From: Ryan Hess > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? Or are you > guys always this slow in replying? :-p > > Ryan > > Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, > > I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. Currently I > have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it occasionally. > However, I will be upgrading to some better heads soon, which will allow me > to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the magic number. > After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this far... but > want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, after reading > about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has anyone ever > tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any guesstimates? How > does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable of high RPM? > (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors with more > bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place "speed wise". > > Ryan > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to-Phone call rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1???/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. From darrenfreed at shaw.ca Tue Apr 18 18:18:25 2006 From: darrenfreed at shaw.ca (Darren Freed) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:18:25 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit Message-ID: <7da829f7da8651.7da86517da829f@shaw.ca> What, specifically, do you want to do? Extend tables? If simply rev limit, that is based on a 2 byte value (ref period). I've run my 3400DOHC up to 7500 rpm with a '7730 and also with a '6401 (sefi, which, btw, stays sefi all the way up, verified on the pcm bench) with no difficulty - ie the ecm didn't take a big dump. darren ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Hess Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:34 am Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > Welp, I wrote a QBasic program to pulse the parallel port, and > hooked my laptop directly to the computer in car. I tried taking > some datalogs with tunerpro RT and freescan, and both have > confirmed the findings... It appears as though RPM/25 is directly > reported via the ALDL stream. It is sent as a single byte, which > means that at a maximum of 255, the reported rpm value is 6375. > This is where it apparently maxes out. I'm kind of surprised I > hadn't noticed this before, but I guess the amount of time I spend > above 6375 is minimal and close to my revlimiter, so.... > > I guess my next question is, how much work (ha!) would it be to > turn RPM/25 into a 2 byte value? Or... would it be even simpler > to change the rpm/25 measuring routine into an rpm/35 or 40?? > What kind of complications am I looking at here? Thanks all, > > Ryan > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Interesting. If that's true, > I wonder if I can cut out unnecessary function calls (EGR, CCP, > air injection, whatever else I can find) to increase that... What > is the failure mode when this limit is reached? Does it just act > like a revlimiter, or crash, or ?? Thanks btw... it does help. > > Ryan > > Bill Shaw wrote: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my > mouth shut!) but I seem to > remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. > > let us know what you find on the bench :-) > > Bill > > > From: Ryan Hess > > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > > > I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? > Or are you > > guys always this slow in replying? :-p > > > > Ryan > > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, > > > > I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. > Currently I > > have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it > occasionally.> However, I will be upgrading to some better heads > soon, which will allow me > > to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the > magic number. > > After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this > far... but > > want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, > after reading > > about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has > anyone ever > > tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any > guesstimates? How > > does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable > of high RPM? > > (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors > with more > > bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place > "speed wise". > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call > > rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1???/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From bubblesjrtwo at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 19:06:04 2006 From: bubblesjrtwo at yahoo.com (Dustin Lof) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] ford tuning? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060419000604.11504.qmail@web53007.mail.yahoo.com> Steve I have no experience tuning a Ford but I have looked into it somewhat, here is what I have found http://eectuning.org/forums/ I found this link at http://www.moates.net/links.php?lPath=1 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rgmecm at yahoo.com Tue Apr 18 20:01:50 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit In-Reply-To: <7da829f7da8651.7da86517da829f@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20060419010150.20148.qmail@web35903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeah, I found the ref period in the code. Looks like it recognizes speeds above 6375, it just doesn't report them via the ALDL. For tuning, having the engine speed reported is of critical importance. Additionally, when running 7500 or 8500 rpm, having the tables cover that extra RPM would be of benefit. VE and PE would probably be the biggest ones here, since spark shouldn't change much anyways. Ryan Darren Freed wrote: What, specifically, do you want to do? Extend tables? If simply rev limit, that is based on a 2 byte value (ref period). I've run my 3400DOHC up to 7500 rpm with a '7730 and also with a '6401 (sefi, which, btw, stays sefi all the way up, verified on the pcm bench) with no difficulty - ie the ecm didn't take a big dump. darren ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Hess Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:34 am Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > Welp, I wrote a QBasic program to pulse the parallel port, and > hooked my laptop directly to the computer in car. I tried taking > some datalogs with tunerpro RT and freescan, and both have > confirmed the findings... It appears as though RPM/25 is directly > reported via the ALDL stream. It is sent as a single byte, which > means that at a maximum of 255, the reported rpm value is 6375. > This is where it apparently maxes out. I'm kind of surprised I > hadn't noticed this before, but I guess the amount of time I spend > above 6375 is minimal and close to my revlimiter, so.... > > I guess my next question is, how much work (ha!) would it be to > turn RPM/25 into a 2 byte value? Or... would it be even simpler > to change the rpm/25 measuring routine into an rpm/35 or 40?? > What kind of complications am I looking at here? Thanks all, > > Ryan > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Interesting. If that's true, > I wonder if I can cut out unnecessary function calls (EGR, CCP, > air injection, whatever else I can find) to increase that... What > is the failure mode when this limit is reached? Does it just act > like a revlimiter, or crash, or ?? Thanks btw... it does help. > > Ryan > > Bill Shaw wrote: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my > mouth shut!) but I seem to > remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. > > let us know what you find on the bench :-) > > Bill > > > From: Ryan Hess > > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > > > I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? > Or are you > > guys always this slow in replying? :-p > > > > Ryan > > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, > > > > I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. > Currently I > > have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it > occasionally.> However, I will be upgrading to some better heads > soon, which will allow me > > to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the > magic number. > > After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this > far... but > > want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, > after reading > > about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has > anyone ever > > tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any > guesstimates? How > > does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable > of high RPM? > > (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors > with more > > bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place > "speed wise". > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call > > rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1???/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. From robert.sjodin at scania.com Wed Apr 19 06:57:06 2006 From: robert.sjodin at scania.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Sj=F6din_Robert?=) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:57:06 +0200 Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit Message-ID: <02A3C863F485574985DC489CE97DA40CB7BC6E@sesoexmb02.scania.se> Actually in datastream A100 I think you find it in byte 12 NEWRFPER TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (MSB) 13 NEWRFPER+1 TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (LSB) uSEC = ([N13]*256 + [N14])*15.26 I think it is used for ABS etc where higher accuracy (about 1 rpm) is needed. I think RPM/25 is for less critical stuff such as display purposes only. Rob -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess Sent: den 19 april 2006 03:02 To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit Yeah, I found the ref period in the code. Looks like it recognizes speeds above 6375, it just doesn't report them via the ALDL. For tuning, having the engine speed reported is of critical importance. Additionally, when running 7500 or 8500 rpm, having the tables cover that extra RPM would be of benefit. VE and PE would probably be the biggest ones here, since spark shouldn't change much anyways. Ryan Darren Freed wrote: What, specifically, do you want to do? Extend tables? If simply rev limit, that is based on a 2 byte value (ref period). I've run my 3400DOHC up to 7500 rpm with a '7730 and also with a '6401 (sefi, which, btw, stays sefi all the way up, verified on the pcm bench) with no difficulty - ie the ecm didn't take a big dump. darren ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Hess Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:34 am Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > Welp, I wrote a QBasic program to pulse the parallel port, and > hooked my laptop directly to the computer in car. I tried taking > some datalogs with tunerpro RT and freescan, and both have > confirmed the findings... It appears as though RPM/25 is directly > reported via the ALDL stream. It is sent as a single byte, which > means that at a maximum of 255, the reported rpm value is 6375. > This is where it apparently maxes out. I'm kind of surprised I > hadn't noticed this before, but I guess the amount of time I spend > above 6375 is minimal and close to my revlimiter, so.... > > I guess my next question is, how much work (ha!) would it be to > turn RPM/25 into a 2 byte value? Or... would it be even simpler > to change the rpm/25 measuring routine into an rpm/35 or 40?? > What kind of complications am I looking at here? Thanks all, > > Ryan > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Interesting. If that's true, > I wonder if I can cut out unnecessary function calls (EGR, CCP, > air injection, whatever else I can find) to increase that... What > is the failure mode when this limit is reached? Does it just act > like a revlimiter, or crash, or ?? Thanks btw... it does help. > > Ryan > > Bill Shaw wrote: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my > mouth shut!) but I seem to > remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. > > let us know what you find on the bench :-) > > Bill > > > From: Ryan Hess > > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > > > I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? > Or are you > > guys always this slow in replying? :-p > > > > Ryan > > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, > > > > I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. > Currently I > > have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it > occasionally.> However, I will be upgrading to some better heads > soon, which will allow me > > to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the > magic number. > > After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this > far... but > > want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, > after reading > > about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has > anyone ever > > tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any > guesstimates? How > > does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable > of high RPM? > > (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors > with more > > bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place > "speed wise". > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call > > rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1???/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From tl34ru at yahoo.com Wed Apr 19 07:38:43 2006 From: tl34ru at yahoo.com (terry) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] ford tuning? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060419123843.48688.qmail@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Have him check out the Tweecer or the Tweecer RT it has data logging.There are some helpful guys on that list. Terry --- Steve Ravet wrote: > I have a friend with a miata with a mustang 5.0 in > it. He's failed his > idle emissions (limit 220, he scored 262) test and > I'm trying to get him > to dive into tuning it himself instead of paying > someone. Is there a > forum with ford tuning expertise comparable to what > this list and > thirdgen offer for GM? > > thanks, > --steve > > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and > any attachments are confidential and may also be > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, > please notify the sender immediately and do not > disclose the contents to any other person, use it > for any purpose, or store or copy the information in > any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Thu Apr 20 15:05:55 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:05:55 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 14, Issue 14 Message-ID: <4447E9A3.1040207@highspeedlink.net> And as far as limitations go, the number of counts in a reference pulse goes DOWN as RPM goes UP, so the limit might be processor speed related... whether or not it can get all the necessary instructions completed before the next reference pulse occurs. Will > From: Sj?din Robert > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > Actually in datastream A100 I think you find it in byte > > 12 NEWRFPER TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (MSB) > 13 NEWRFPER+1 TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (LSB) > uSEC = ([N13]*256 + [N14])*15.26 > > I think it is used for ABS etc where higher accuracy (about 1 rpm) is needed. I think RPM/25 is for less critical stuff such as display purposes only. > > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess > Sent: den 19 april 2006 03:02 > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > > Yeah, I found the ref period in the code. Looks like it recognizes speeds above 6375, it just doesn't report them via the ALDL. For tuning, having the engine speed reported is of critical importance. Additionally, when running 7500 or 8500 rpm, having the tables cover that extra RPM would be of benefit. VE and PE would probably be the biggest ones here, since spark shouldn't change much anyways. > > Ryan > > Darren Freed wrote: What, specifically, do you want to do? Extend tables? If simply rev limit, that is based on a 2 byte value (ref period). I've run my 3400DOHC up to 7500 rpm with a '7730 and also with a '6401 (sefi, which, btw, stays sefi all the way up, verified on the pcm bench) with no difficulty - ie the ecm didn't take a big dump. > > darren > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ryan Hess > Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:34 am > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > >> Welp, I wrote a QBasic program to pulse the parallel port, and >> hooked my laptop directly to the computer in car. I tried taking >> some datalogs with tunerpro RT and freescan, and both have >> confirmed the findings... It appears as though RPM/25 is directly >> reported via the ALDL stream. It is sent as a single byte, which >> means that at a maximum of 255, the reported rpm value is 6375. >> This is where it apparently maxes out. I'm kind of surprised I >> hadn't noticed this before, but I guess the amount of time I spend >> above 6375 is minimal and close to my revlimiter, so.... >> >> I guess my next question is, how much work (ha!) would it be to >> turn RPM/25 into a 2 byte value? Or... would it be even simpler >> to change the rpm/25 measuring routine into an rpm/35 or 40?? >> What kind of complications am I looking at here? Thanks all, >> >> Ryan >> >> >> Ryan Hess wrote: Interesting. If that's true, >> I wonder if I can cut out unnecessary function calls (EGR, CCP, >> air injection, whatever else I can find) to increase that... What >> is the failure mode when this limit is reached? Does it just act >> like a revlimiter, or crash, or ?? Thanks btw... it does help. >> >> Ryan >> >> Bill Shaw wrote: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my >> mouth shut!) but I seem to >> remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. >> >> let us know what you find on the bench :-) >> >> Bill >> >>> From: Ryan Hess >>> Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) >>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit >>> >>> I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? >> Or are you >>> guys always this slow in replying? :-p >>> >>> Ryan >>> >>> Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, >>> >>> I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. >> Currently I >>> have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it >> occasionally.> However, I will be upgrading to some better heads >> soon, which will allow me >>> to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the >> magic number. >>> After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this >> far... but >>> want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, >> after reading >>> about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has >> anyone ever >>> tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any >> guesstimates? How >>> does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable >> of high RPM? >>> (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors >> with more >>> bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place >> "speed wise". >>> Ryan From rgmecm at yahoo.com Thu Apr 20 17:20:32 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit In-Reply-To: <02A3C863F485574985DC489CE97DA40CB7BC6E@sesoexmb02.scania.se> Message-ID: <20060420222032.67499.qmail@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Okay, I've decided to insert an additional VE and PE table, and use the stock 2D lookup routines. Because of the 16 step interpolation, I figured having an rpm/35 variable wouldn't be wise, since the minimum rpm step would then be 560. So, I need to create an offset RPM variable that starts at 6400. Any ideas on how to do this? I'm still grappling with how the registers work. The stock RPM/25 routine takes the DRP count, multiplies it by 2 (through a logic shift left of the DRP count in the D register), and divides 307 by that value. Thanks, Ryan Sj?din Robert wrote: Actually in datastream A100 I think you find it in byte 12 NEWRFPER TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (MSB) 13 NEWRFPER+1 TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (LSB) uSEC = ([N13]*256 + [N14])*15.26 I think it is used for ABS etc where higher accuracy (about 1 rpm) is needed. I think RPM/25 is for less critical stuff such as display purposes only. Rob -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hess Sent: den 19 april 2006 03:02 To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit Yeah, I found the ref period in the code. Looks like it recognizes speeds above 6375, it just doesn't report them via the ALDL. For tuning, having the engine speed reported is of critical importance. Additionally, when running 7500 or 8500 rpm, having the tables cover that extra RPM would be of benefit. VE and PE would probably be the biggest ones here, since spark shouldn't change much anyways. Ryan Darren Freed wrote: What, specifically, do you want to do? Extend tables? If simply rev limit, that is based on a 2 byte value (ref period). I've run my 3400DOHC up to 7500 rpm with a '7730 and also with a '6401 (sefi, which, btw, stays sefi all the way up, verified on the pcm bench) with no difficulty - ie the ecm didn't take a big dump. darren ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Hess Date: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:34 am Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > Welp, I wrote a QBasic program to pulse the parallel port, and > hooked my laptop directly to the computer in car. I tried taking > some datalogs with tunerpro RT and freescan, and both have > confirmed the findings... It appears as though RPM/25 is directly > reported via the ALDL stream. It is sent as a single byte, which > means that at a maximum of 255, the reported rpm value is 6375. > This is where it apparently maxes out. I'm kind of surprised I > hadn't noticed this before, but I guess the amount of time I spend > above 6375 is minimal and close to my revlimiter, so.... > > I guess my next question is, how much work (ha!) would it be to > turn RPM/25 into a 2 byte value? Or... would it be even simpler > to change the rpm/25 measuring routine into an rpm/35 or 40?? > What kind of complications am I looking at here? Thanks all, > > Ryan > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Interesting. If that's true, > I wonder if I can cut out unnecessary function calls (EGR, CCP, > air injection, whatever else I can find) to increase that... What > is the failure mode when this limit is reached? Does it just act > like a revlimiter, or crash, or ?? Thanks btw... it does help. > > Ryan > > Bill Shaw wrote: Don't know for sure (which is why I kept my > mouth shut!) but I seem to > remember reading about 7300 being the limit due to processing speed. > > let us know what you find on the bench :-) > > Bill > > > From: Ryan Hess > > Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 7730 Maximum RPM limit > > > > I guess I'll have to build a test bench and find out myself, eh? > Or are you > > guys always this slow in replying? :-p > > > > Ryan > > > > Ryan Hess wrote: Hi again, > > > > I'm currently running a northstar on a 7730, using the DIS $a1. > Currently I > > have the revlimit set to 6500, and it works great, I've hit it > occasionally.> However, I will be upgrading to some better heads > soon, which will allow me > > to rev even higher without valve float. 7500 seems to be the > magic number. > > After a rebuilt bottom end (I don't know for sure if I'd go this > far... but > > want to leave my options open), 8500 would be possible. Now, > after reading > > about LT1 computers hiccupping at high rpm, my question is- has > anyone ever > > tested the "max rpm" the 7730 can handle and/or have any > guesstimates? How > > does processor speed compare to other aftermarket ECM's capable > of high RPM? > > (eg holley, haltec, etc) I assume they run faster processors > with more > > bloated compiled code, so I wonder if they're in the same place > "speed wise". > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call > > rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger???s low PC-to- > Phone call rates. > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1???/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously > low rates. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From rgmecm at yahoo.com Sat Apr 22 23:44:27 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] VE error in $A1 hac? In-Reply-To: <20060420222032.67499.qmail@web35906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060423044427.95848.qmail@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm a n00b when it comes to assembly, but I was reading the 3d VE lookup tables in the $a1 hac, and it appears to me that if the RPM <800, it gets multiplied by 2, and 400rpm is subtracted. Wouldn't that mean the last cell would be 400 rpm? Someone check me... If so I need to change my definition file. (there's no way this is going to come out formatted right...) B893 LB893:cmpa #0x20 ;800 RPM B895 bhi LB89F ;BRANCH IF > 800 RPM, ELSE B897 lsla ;MULT * 2 B898 suba #0x30 ;(RPM*2)-48 B89A bcc LB89D ;BRANCH IF NO UNDERFLOW, ELSE B89C clra ;CLEAR A B89D LB89D:bra LB8A1 ;BRANCH B89F LB89F:suba #0x10 ;RPM - 400 RPM B8A1 LB8A1:ldx #0x8772 ;MAIN VE TABLE ... MAP stuff B8B5 LB8B5:bra LB8C3 ;GO DO TABLE LOOKUP B8B7 LB8B7:psha ;SAVE RPM ON STACK Ryan --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. From gary at garyandliz.com Sun Apr 23 02:43:01 2006 From: gary at garyandliz.com (Gary Evans) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 00:43:01 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] VE error in $A1 hac? In-Reply-To: <20060423044427.95848.qmail@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060423044427.95848.qmail@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Ryan, It looks to me like the calculation bottoms out at 600 rpm. The only error I see is here: B898 suba #0x30 ;(RPM*2)-48 Should be: B898 suba #0x30 ;(RPM*2)-1200 RPM If the engine RPM is 800 or higher, the code will jump to B89F, subtract 400, and do a table lookup on the location RPM-400. If, for example, the rpm is 799, the code will multiply by two (1598), subtract 1200 (398), and do the lookup on that result. Any input lower than 600 is treated as 600, because 600*2-1200 = 0. If the RPM is 599 or less, line B89C sets the result back to zero after the subtraction yields a negative number. The code you are looking at is only used to scale the actual RPM value for the purposes of performing the table lookup. Below 800 rpm, the table scaling is 1/2 that of the rest of the table. So where the rest of the table has 400 RPM jumps between columns, the the first column would only be a 200 RPM jump (since the lookup index is RPM*2). Hence, I believe the label of 600 RPM for the first column is correct. This assumption is backed up by the fact that the code will not allow a lookup below 600 RPM anyway. -Gary On Apr 22, 2006, at 9:44 PM, Ryan Hess wrote: > I'm a n00b when it comes to assembly, but I was reading the 3d VE > lookup tables in the $a1 hac, and it appears to me that if the RPM > <800, it gets multiplied by 2, and 400rpm is subtracted. Wouldn't > that mean the last cell would be 400 rpm? Someone check me... If > so I need to change my definition file. > > (there's no way this is going to come out formatted right...) > B893 LB893:cmpa > #0x20 ;800 RPM > B895 bhi LB89F ;BRANCH IF > 800 RPM, > ELSE > B897 lsla ;MULT * 2 > B898 suba #0x30 ;(RPM*2)-48 > B89A bcc LB89D ;BRANCH IF NO > UNDERFLOW, ELSE > B89C clra ;CLEAR A > B89D LB89D:bra LB8A1 ;BRANCH > B89F LB89F:suba #0x10 ;RPM - 400 RPM > B8A1 LB8A1:ldx #0x8772 ;MAIN VE TABLE > ... MAP stuff > > B8B5 LB8B5:bra LB8C3 ;GO DO TABLE LOOKUP > B8B7 LB8B7:psha ;SAVE RPM ON STACK > > > Ryan > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From rgmecm at yahoo.com Sun Apr 23 09:36:42 2006 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] VE error in $A1 hac? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060423143642.58463.qmail@web35909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for the correction Gary. It was late and I thought I had something. Guess not. :) Ryan Gary Evans wrote: Hi Ryan, It looks to me like the calculation bottoms out at 600 rpm. The only error I see is here: B898 suba #0x30 ;(RPM*2)-48 Should be: B898 suba #0x30 ;(RPM*2)-1200 RPM If the engine RPM is 800 or higher, the code will jump to B89F, subtract 400, and do a table lookup on the location RPM-400. If, for example, the rpm is 799, the code will multiply by two (1598), subtract 1200 (398), and do the lookup on that result. Any input lower than 600 is treated as 600, because 600*2-1200 = 0. If the RPM is 599 or less, line B89C sets the result back to zero after the subtraction yields a negative number. The code you are looking at is only used to scale the actual RPM value for the purposes of performing the table lookup. Below 800 rpm, the table scaling is 1/2 that of the rest of the table. So where the rest of the table has 400 RPM jumps between columns, the the first column would only be a 200 RPM jump (since the lookup index is RPM*2). Hence, I believe the label of 600 RPM for the first column is correct. This assumption is backed up by the fact that the code will not allow a lookup below 600 RPM anyway. -Gary On Apr 22, 2006, at 9:44 PM, Ryan Hess wrote: > I'm a n00b when it comes to assembly, but I was reading the 3d VE > lookup tables in the $a1 hac, and it appears to me that if the RPM > <800, it gets multiplied by 2, and 400rpm is subtracted. Wouldn't > that mean the last cell would be 400 rpm? Someone check me... If > so I need to change my definition file. > > (there's no way this is going to come out formatted right...) > B893 LB893:cmpa > #0x20 ;800 RPM > B895 bhi LB89F ;BRANCH IF > 800 RPM, > ELSE > B897 lsla ;MULT * 2 > B898 suba #0x30 ;(RPM*2)-48 > B89A bcc LB89D ;BRANCH IF NO > UNDERFLOW, ELSE > B89C clra ;CLEAR A > B89D LB89D:bra LB8A1 ;BRANCH > B89F LB89F:suba #0x10 ;RPM - 400 RPM > B8A1 LB8A1:ldx #0x8772 ;MAIN VE TABLE > ... MAP stuff > > B8B5 LB8B5:bra LB8C3 ;GO DO TABLE LOOKUP > B8B7 LB8B7:psha ;SAVE RPM ON STACK > > > Ryan > > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1??/min. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Tue Apr 25 18:37:57 2006 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Handley) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:37:57 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring References: <20060423143642.58463.qmail@web35909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01a601c668c1$48e853c0$020101c0@gandalf> It's been quite a while since I posted, so apologies if this is a really dumb question to return with: I've been using ANHT in a 1227727 to control the ignition on my 4 cylinder engine for a couple of years now. I'm using a reluctor trigger in a distributor to provide the trigger inputs via an 8 pin HEI. I'm now starting to think about fuel injection, with one injector per port. Using my distributor trigger, the ECM doesn't know which cylinder is triggering at any time, but this isn't a problem for ignition as the rotor arm sorts it out. But what happens with injection? I can only think that all the injectors must fire at every trigger event - 'batch' injection. The on-line wiring diagrams for the 1227727 show one injector pin for cylinders 2, 4, 6, 8 and another for 1, 3, 5, 7. As ANHT is intended for an 8 cylinder engine this suggests that more information is available to the ECM than my distributor trigger can provide. Is this right - I can't see another sensor in the wiring diagrams? Could somebody please explain to me when these two banks are fired, and how I should wire these pins up to my (only) 4 port injectors, given that I'm using a distributor trigger? Robin From cmoore440 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 25 19:18:04 2006 From: cmoore440 at yahoo.com (Curtis W. Moore) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring In-Reply-To: <01a601c668c1$48e853c0$020101c0@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060426001804.58087.qmail@web53715.mail.yahoo.com> Robin, This is my first post. I've been hanging for awhile just reading. I'm am interested in your post, and hope others chime in. I too am interested in using a 1227727 to run a 4 cyl port engine. Here is some of the high points as I have learned. Hopefully learned right. :) 1227727 uses low-Z injectors. You will most likely be running high-Z. I don't think this will be a problem. See what everyone else says. 1227727 pulses the injectors every other ignition event. That should be 4 times for 2 revolutions of the crankshaft. (8-cyl) Factory 8-cyl engines use what I think is called a "split plane" manifold. One injector will feed 2-cyl on left bank, and 2-cyl on the right. One pin would not feed one bank, and the other another bank. One pin would feed half the engine, and one pin the other half. I would have to see a manifold to tell you exactly what cyl are being fed. I think I will wait for others at this point. This should be enough to start out with. If I haven't explained myself very good, I will be happy to elaborate further. Curtis --- Robin Handley wrote: > It's been quite a while since I posted, so apologies if this is a > really > dumb question to return with: > > I've been using ANHT in a 1227727 to control the ignition on my 4 > cylinder > engine for a couple of years now. I'm using a reluctor trigger in a > distributor to provide the trigger inputs via an 8 pin HEI. > > I'm now starting to think about fuel injection, with one injector per > port. > Using my distributor trigger, the ECM doesn't know which cylinder is > triggering at any time, but this isn't a problem for ignition as the > rotor > arm sorts it out. But what happens with injection? I can only think > that all > the injectors must fire at every trigger event - 'batch' injection. > The > on-line wiring diagrams for the 1227727 show one injector pin for > cylinders > 2, 4, 6, 8 and another for 1, 3, 5, 7. As ANHT is intended for an 8 > cylinder > engine this suggests that more information is available to the ECM > than my > distributor trigger can provide. Is this right - I can't see another > sensor > in the wiring diagrams? Could somebody please explain to me when > these two > banks are fired, and how I should wire these pins up to my (only) 4 > port > injectors, given that I'm using a distributor trigger? > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jryan at caminofx.org Tue Apr 25 19:37:50 2006 From: jryan at caminofx.org (Jared Ryan) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:37:50 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring In-Reply-To: <20060426001804.58087.qmail@web53715.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060426001804.58087.qmail@web53715.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The firing order on a Chevy small block is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, so cylinders 1, 4, 6 and 7 are on one plane, and cylinders 8, 3, 5 and 2 are on the other plane. At least, that is how it is on a carburetor or TBI manifold. It works out that each succeeding cylinder gets its charge from the opposite plane from the one that fed the preceeding cylinder. In other words, the planes alternate in having an intake charge drawn through them. ---> Jared Ryan <--- jryan at caminofx.org | http://www.caminofx.org On Apr 25, 2006, at 7:18 PM, Curtis W. Moore wrote: > One > pin would feed half the engine, and one pin the other half. I would > have to see a manifold to tell you exactly what cyl are being fed. From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 26 03:18:23 2006 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Handley) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:18:23 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring References: <20060426001804.58087.qmail@web53715.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01b901c66909$feb0a750$020101c0@gandalf> Curtis, You've worried me! The information that I've been using - a printout of http:///www.customefis.com/GMEFIDIY.html (which isn't there anymore as it is now a pay site) says that the 1227730 and 1227727 are port EFI ECMs, that 'port EFI ECMs fire all 8 injectors once every revolution (usually)', and that 'port ECMs use saturated, or high impedance injectors'. So, I'm still confused as to how to wire up my 4 port injectors (which, as you guessed, are high impedance Bosch ones). Thanks, Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis W. Moore" To: Sent: 26 April 2006 01:18 Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring > Robin, > > This is my first post. I've been hanging for awhile just reading. I'm > am interested in your post, and hope others chime in. I too am > interested in using a 1227727 to run a 4 cyl port engine. Here is some > of the high points as I have learned. Hopefully learned right. :) > > 1227727 uses low-Z injectors. You will most likely be running high-Z. I > don't think this will be a problem. See what everyone else says. > > 1227727 pulses the injectors every other ignition event. That should be > 4 times for 2 revolutions of the crankshaft. (8-cyl) > > Factory 8-cyl engines use what I think is called a "split plane" > manifold. One injector will feed 2-cyl on left bank, and 2-cyl on the > right. One pin would not feed one bank, and the other another bank. One > pin would feed half the engine, and one pin the other half. I would > have to see a manifold to tell you exactly what cyl are being fed. > > I think I will wait for others at this point. This should be enough to > start out with. If I haven't explained myself very good, I will be > happy to elaborate further. > > Curtis From cmoore440 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 26 04:00:29 2006 From: cmoore440 at yahoo.com (Curtis W. Moore) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:00:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring In-Reply-To: <01b901c66909$feb0a750$020101c0@gandalf> Message-ID: <20060426090029.76411.qmail@web53713.mail.yahoo.com> Opps. Sorry. :( I was actually thinking about the 1227747. You can disregard my post. Curtis --- Robin Handley wrote: > Curtis, > > You've worried me! The information that I've been using - a printout > of > http:///www.customefis.com/GMEFIDIY.html (which isn't there anymore > as it is > now a pay site) says that the 1227730 and 1227727 are port EFI ECMs, > that > 'port EFI ECMs fire all 8 injectors once every revolution (usually)', > and > that 'port ECMs use saturated, or high impedance injectors'. > > So, I'm still confused as to how to wire up my 4 port injectors > (which, as > you guessed, are high impedance Bosch ones). > > Thanks, > > Robin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curtis W. Moore" > To: > Sent: 26 April 2006 01:18 > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring > > > > Robin, > > > > This is my first post. I've been hanging for awhile just reading. > I'm > > am interested in your post, and hope others chime in. I too am > > interested in using a 1227727 to run a 4 cyl port engine. Here is > some > > of the high points as I have learned. Hopefully learned right. :) > > > > 1227727 uses low-Z injectors. You will most likely be running > high-Z. I > > don't think this will be a problem. See what everyone else says. > > > > 1227727 pulses the injectors every other ignition event. That > should be > > 4 times for 2 revolutions of the crankshaft. (8-cyl) > > > > Factory 8-cyl engines use what I think is called a "split plane" > > manifold. One injector will feed 2-cyl on left bank, and 2-cyl on > the > > right. One pin would not feed one bank, and the other another bank. > One > > pin would feed half the engine, and one pin the other half. I would > > have to see a manifold to tell you exactly what cyl are being fed. > > > > I think I will wait for others at this point. This should be enough > to > > start out with. If I haven't explained myself very good, I will be > > happy to elaborate further. > > > > Curtis > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 26 09:38:58 2006 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Handley) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:38:58 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring References: <20060423143642.58463.qmail@web35909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <01a601c668c1$48e853c0$020101c0@gandalf> Message-ID: <039301c6693f$28c96060$020101c0@gandalf> Looking back in my list archive, given that the 1227730 and 1227727 have identical internals (I believe) then both have 2 wires but are driven from the same driver. So, my next electronics novice question is: Will I upset anything if I just connect all my 4 high impedance Bosch injectors to one line? Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Handley" To: Sent: 26 April 2006 00:37 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring > It's been quite a while since I posted, so apologies if this is a really > dumb question to return with: > > I've been using ANHT in a 1227727 to control the ignition on my 4 cylinder > engine for a couple of years now. I'm using a reluctor trigger in a > distributor to provide the trigger inputs via an 8 pin HEI. > > I'm now starting to think about fuel injection, with one injector per port. > Using my distributor trigger, the ECM doesn't know which cylinder is > triggering at any time, but this isn't a problem for ignition as the rotor > arm sorts it out. But what happens with injection? I can only think that all > the injectors must fire at every trigger event - 'batch' injection. The > on-line wiring diagrams for the 1227727 show one injector pin for cylinders > 2, 4, 6, 8 and another for 1, 3, 5, 7. As ANHT is intended for an 8 cylinder > engine this suggests that more information is available to the ECM than my > distributor trigger can provide. Is this right - I can't see another sensor > in the wiring diagrams? Could somebody please explain to me when these two > banks are fired, and how I should wire these pins up to my (only) 4 port > injectors, given that I'm using a distributor trigger? > > Robin From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Wed Apr 26 10:24:41 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:24:41 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Robin Handley > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:39 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring > > Looking back in my list archive, given that the 1227730 and > 1227727 have identical internals (I believe) then both have 2 > wires but are driven from the same driver. > > So, my next electronics novice question is: Will I upset > anything if I just connect all my 4 high impedance Bosch > injectors to one line? > > Robin That's the way the factory has them wired, so no problem. I would think you would have some serious tuning to do to get a v8 cal to run your 4 cyl. --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From efi at dyakron.com Wed Apr 26 10:32:34 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:32:34 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060426113158.0351fa80@dyakron.com> At 10:24 AM 4/26/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > So, my next electronics novice question is: Will I upset > > anything if I just connect all my 4 high impedance Bosch > > injectors to one line? > > > > Robin > >That's the way the factory has them wired, so no problem. I would think >you would have some serious tuning to do to get a v8 cal to run your 4 >cyl. Steve, that is wired in parallel, correct? Mike V From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 26 11:04:11 2006 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Handley) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:04:11 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring References: Message-ID: <03a601c6694b$0fba9e70$020101c0@gandalf> > That's the way the factory has them wired, so no problem. True, but the factory has 4 injectors on each line and I was worrying that, if both lines are internally joined, then I would be loading the driver transistor with just 4 injectors in parallel instead of 8. Is this ok? I was also a little surprised to see that the injectors aren't just wired between the signal and ground pins - the diagrams that I have show power into one pin of the injector, and the other pin of the injector connected to the ECM signal pin. Then the dedicated injector ground pin connected to engine/battery ground. Is this right for a 1227727/1227730? Should I keep the dedicated injector ground pins separate from other ground lines? > I would think you would have some serious tuning to do to get a v8 cal to run your 4 cyl. You could be right! I will have a WBO2 to help me, though, and I have devised a way of modifying tables via ALDL while the engine is running. I just hope there's nothing in ANHT/$8D to bite me... like running over 6375RPM, and/or not having half the sensors connected that the original installation had. (I have TPS, MAP and CTS only ATM.) I have managed w/o a VSS on my ignition only setup, but I'm not clear yet whether I'll have to fit one or mod the code for injection to be happy. The other 2 sensors that I don't have yet are the MAT and the lambda. I guess the MAT is essential for the speed density calculations, but I guess I could run open loop, if I were confident about my tuning! I think my best tuning approach has got to be to set all the fuel correction arrays to zero, and just work on the main VE table. I'm open to ideas, though! Thanks, Robin From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Wed Apr 26 12:11:29 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:11:29 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Robin Handley > Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:04 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring > > > That's the way the factory has them wired, so no problem. > > True, but the factory has 4 injectors on each line and I was > worrying that, if both lines are internally joined, then I > would be loading the driver transistor with just 4 injectors > in parallel instead of 8. Is this ok? It's fine. Adding things in parallel reduces the overall resistance, increasing the current demand, and putting more load onto the driver. Having 4 injectors instead of 8 means half the load on the driver. It'll be fine that way. > > I was also a little surprised to see that the injectors > aren't just wired between the signal and ground pins - the > diagrams that I have show power into one pin of the injector, > and the other pin of the injector connected to the ECM signal > pin. Then the dedicated injector ground pin connected to > engine/battery ground. Is this right for a 1227727/1227730? > Should I keep the dedicated injector ground pins separate > from other ground lines? transistor drivers usually switch the ground connection rather than the power connection. As far as grounding goes, if you have the schematic then duplicate it as much as possible. I don't think the injector grounds need to be kept separate. > > > I would think you would have some serious tuning to do to > get a v8 cal > > to > run your 4 cyl. > > You could be right! I will have a WBO2 to help me, though, > and I have devised a way of modifying tables via ALDL while Isn't there a port 4 cyl box/calibration you could start with? --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From efi at dyakron.com Wed Apr 26 13:58:07 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:58:07 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060426145405.03520590@dyakron.com> At 12:11 PM 4/26/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > I would think you would have some serious tuning to do to > > get a v8 cal > > > to > > run your 4 cyl. > > > > You could be right! I will have a WBO2 to help me, though, > > and I have devised a way of modifying tables via ALDL while > >Isn't there a port 4 cyl box/calibration you could start with? The Syclone code was originally the 87-90 Turbo Sunbird Code. It's fully hacked already. It used a 128 Kbit chip. You'd need to load it in the last half of the 256K chip for 730 & 727, or just load it twice. mv From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 26 14:10:19 2006 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Handley) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:10:19 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring References: Message-ID: <03bd01c66965$322ef770$020101c0@gandalf> It's fine. Adding things in parallel reduces the overall resistance, increasing the current demand, and putting more load onto the driver. Having 4 injectors instead of 8 means half the load on the driver. It'll be fine that way. Thanks. :-) transistor drivers usually switch the ground connection rather than the power connection. As far as grounding goes, if you have the schematic then duplicate it as much as possible. I don't think the injector grounds need to be kept separate. Thanks again. > Isn't there a port 4 cyl box/calibration you could start with? Changing code now might set me back a bit as I've modified it and got ALDL monitoring going and other stuff. Robin From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Wed Apr 26 14:13:58 2006 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Robin Handley) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:13:58 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Port injector wiring References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060426145405.03520590@dyakron.com> Message-ID: <03be01c66965$939f45a0$020101c0@gandalf> > >Isn't there a port 4 cyl box/calibration you could start with? > > The Syclone code was originally the 87-90 Turbo Sunbird Code. > It's fully hacked already. It used a 128 Kbit chip. > You'd need to load it in the last half of the 256K > chip for 730 & 727, or just load it twice. > mv Does this run directly on 730/727 hardware without any changes? I used to have a link to a website with code hacks on it, but can't find it ATM. Could you give me a pointer to a source of the Turbo Sunbird code hack? Thanks, Robin From mrfun71 at chartermi.net Wed Apr 26 19:58:15 2006 From: mrfun71 at chartermi.net (Mrfun71) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:58:15 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Corvette ECM 1226026 Message-ID: <001e01c66995$aab80cb0$9900a8c0@DellLaptop> Hello everybody, got a question for the group. I have been doing some searching and can't find much on the 1226026. It's out off an early eighties corvette with dual TBI. I've seen some people have done some ECM conversions to the 747 and the 8625, which I have in my 93 blazer. I've checked the Tunercat and Datamaster sites to find nobody has anything. Does anybody know of anything on this ECM to help me get it programmed. Thanks! Andy mrfun71 at chartermi.net From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net Thu Apr 27 12:55:16 2006 From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:55:16 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Corvette ECM 1226026 Message-ID: <44510584.3090100@highspeedlink.net> I don't know about the ECM, but I happened upon this a while back: http://www.x-ram.com/ Performance manifold for Crossfire injection. Will > From: "Mrfun71" > Subject: [Gmecm] Corvette ECM 1226026 > > Hello everybody, got a question for the group. I have been doing some searching and can't find much on the 1226026. It's out off an early eighties corvette with dual TBI. I've seen some people have done some ECM conversions to the 747 and the 8625, which I have in my 93 blazer. I've checked the Tunercat and Datamaster sites to find nobody has anything. Does anybody know of anything on this ECM to help me get it programmed. > > Thanks! > Andy > mrfun71 at chartermi.net From mrgrimes1 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 21:43:32 2006 From: mrgrimes1 at yahoo.com (Darrin Garrett) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] Delphi ECU partnumber for newer than 1997 ECUs Message-ID: <20060428024332.76785.qmail@web33415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On this board I can only find the part numbers to ECUs that are 1997 and older. Does anyone know where Delphi hides the info pertaining to 1998 and newer ECUs, specifically their part numbers and which vehicles they can be found on? Darrin --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Thu Apr 27 22:13:55 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:13:55 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Delphi ECU partnumber for newer than 1997 ECUs Message-ID: gmpartsdirect.com has an "alternative catalog" (partsvoice?) that is OK for looking up part numbers. I find what I'm looking for about 50% of the time, and it shows some amount of application data. I can tell you the '98 pickup VCM service number is 16250279. Did you take a look at the reflashing via BDM article? Do you think it'll work? --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Darrin Garrett > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:44 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] Delphi ECU partnumber for newer than 1997 ECUs > > On this board I can only find the part numbers to ECUs that > are 1997 and older. Does anyone know where Delphi hides the > info pertaining to 1998 and newer ECUs, specifically their > part numbers and which vehicles they can be found on? > > Darrin > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US > (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From aphelion79 at cox.net Thu Apr 27 23:02:38 2006 From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:02:38 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- Message-ID: <445193DE.2050708@cox.net> Ah yes, I am back! Remember me doing that crazy fuel injection conversion to my Jeep with the Iron Duke 151? Well it runs now! Kinda.. lol... Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you know how to set the timing on this thing? Do I jump a connector, unplug something, etc? From ahuxtable at sola.com.au Thu Apr 27 23:20:48 2006 From: ahuxtable at sola.com.au (ahuxtable at sola.com.au) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:50:48 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Message-ID: Hi people, where is a good place to buy looming tape here in aus? Possibly even Adelaide? I'm rewiring a car and no one seems to even know about the stuff, let alone sell it. Any leads greatly appreciated Andrew From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Thu Apr 27 23:26:19 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:56:19 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus References: Message-ID: <000701c66a7b$e81108f0$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> hi , u mean the plastic curly stuff or the insulation type sticky stuff ? mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Hi people, where is a good place to buy looming tape here in aus? Possibly even Adelaide? I'm rewiring a car and no one seems to even know about the stuff, let alone sell it. Any leads greatly appreciated Andrew _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Thu Apr 27 23:38:58 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:08:58 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus References: Message-ID: <001901c66a7d$aafe8120$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> hi, found this, but it s in england .. http://www.autosparks.co.uk/store/catalogue/list.asp?l=67 i just use black quality insulation tape e.g nitto. mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Hi people, where is a good place to buy looming tape here in aus? Possibly even Adelaide? I'm rewiring a car and no one seems to even know about the stuff, let alone sell it. Any leads greatly appreciated Andrew _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Thu Apr 27 23:42:07 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:12:07 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus References: Message-ID: <000701c66a7e$1d637a40$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> or try this : http://www.autronic.com/page_files/silicon_tape.htm mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Hi people, where is a good place to buy looming tape here in aus? Possibly even Adelaide? I'm rewiring a car and no one seems to even know about the stuff, let alone sell it. Any leads greatly appreciated Andrew _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From ahuxtable at sola.com.au Thu Apr 27 23:41:32 2006 From: ahuxtable at sola.com.au (ahuxtable at sola.com.au) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:11:32 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Message-ID: I mean the REAL looming tape. Much like insulation tape but no where near as sticky and it doesn't go all disgusting after 1 week in the aus summer heat. It's barely sticky at all. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of mark krawczuk Sent: Friday, 28 April 2006 1:56 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus hi , u mean the plastic curly stuff or the insulation type sticky stuff ? mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Hi people, where is a good place to buy looming tape here in aus? Possibly even Adelaide? I'm rewiring a car and no one seems to even know about the stuff, let alone sell it. Any leads greatly appreciated Andrew _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From ahuxtable at sola.com.au Thu Apr 27 23:45:35 2006 From: ahuxtable at sola.com.au (ahuxtable at sola.com.au) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:15:35 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Message-ID: Yeah, I imagine the 'harness' tape is the stuff I'm after - Now, just to find someone in AU that stocks it.... -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of mark krawczuk Sent: Friday, 28 April 2006 2:12 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus or try this : http://www.autronic.com/page_files/silicon_tape.htm mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus Hi people, where is a good place to buy looming tape here in aus? Possibly even Adelaide? I'm rewiring a car and no one seems to even know about the stuff, let alone sell it. Any leads greatly appreciated Andrew _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From mrgrimes1 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 28 01:09:19 2006 From: mrgrimes1 at yahoo.com (Darrin Garrett) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 23:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] Delphi ECU partnumber for newer than 1997 ECUs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060428060919.45936.qmail@web33402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My BDM software (PandE Microsystems) is dos based and I do not have a dos machine, the DLLs will not work on XP. I think the GMWPX that I was working on was also used in the 97 thru 03 vette, part number 12200411. I thought it was also used in one of the pickups but each platform as a completely different PN even though the ECU hardware might be the same. Darrin Steve Ravet wrote: gmpartsdirect.com has an "alternative catalog" (partsvoice?) that is OK for looking up part numbers. I find what I'm looking for about 50% of the time, and it shows some amount of application data. I can tell you the '98 pickup VCM service number is 16250279. Did you take a look at the reflashing via BDM article? Do you think it'll work? --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Darrin Garrett > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:44 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] Delphi ECU partnumber for newer than 1997 ECUs > > On this board I can only find the part numbers to ECUs that > are 1997 and older. Does anyone know where Delphi hides the > info pertaining to 1998 and newer ECUs, specifically their > part numbers and which vehicles they can be found on? > > Darrin > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US > (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1?/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From hoptona at gmail.com Fri Apr 28 05:36:31 2006 From: hoptona at gmail.com (Andrew Hopton) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:06:31 +0930 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4451F02F.6090606@gmail.com> ahuxtable at sola.com.au wrote: > Yeah, I imagine the 'harness' tape is the stuff I'm after - Now, just to > find someone in AU that stocks it.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of mark krawczuk > Sent: Friday, 28 April 2006 2:12 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus > > or try this : > > http://www.autronic.com/page_files/silicon_tape.htm > > > > mark k > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:50 PM > Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus > > > Hi people, where is a good place to buy looming tape here in aus? > Possibly even Adelaide? > > > > I'm rewiring a car and no one seems to even know about the stuff, let > alone sell it. > > > > Any leads greatly appreciated > > > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Jaycar electronics (In Adelaide) have self-amalgamating tape of this type. But its not cheap. Cheers. From aphelion79 at cox.net Fri Apr 28 16:54:28 2006 From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:54:28 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- In-Reply-To: <445193DE.2050708@cox.net> References: <445193DE.2050708@cox.net> Message-ID: <44528F14.1040708@cox.net> Well... from what I understand various dealers telling me about the S-10, is there is a brown/tan wire with a white stripe that you need to disconnect to disable the ECM timing control... then set the timing from there... however... I very well may have spliced it out and capped it off as it most likely appeared to go to nothing when I redid the wiring harness... so... if anyone could point me in the direction of a wiring diagram for it I would be greatly appreciative! =) -Matt Aphelion79 wrote: > Ah yes, I am back! Remember me doing that crazy fuel injection > conversion to my Jeep with the Iron Duke 151? Well it runs now! > Kinda.. lol... > > Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you know how to set the timing on this > thing? Do I jump a connector, unplug something, etc? > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From cfrederick at new.rr.com Fri Apr 28 18:08:59 2006 From: cfrederick at new.rr.com (C. J. Frederick) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:08:59 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Where to buy Looming tape in aus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200604282305.k3SN5GfW001055@ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com> How about this stuff... https://www.casperselectronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Produ ct_Code=103010&Category_Code=conn Caspers Electronics. CJ >I mean the REAL looming tape. Much like insulation tape but no where >near as sticky and it doesn't go all disgusting after 1 week in the aus >summer heat. It's barely sticky at all. > >Andrew > From jay at vessels-clan.com Fri Apr 28 19:44:22 2006 From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:44:22 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- In-Reply-To: <44528F14.1040708@cox.net> References: <445193DE.2050708@cox.net> <44528F14.1040708@cox.net> Message-ID: <4452B6E6.7090509@vessels-clan.com> Hi there! The wire they're talking about is EST Bypass, and it goes to the ignition module. I doubt you spliced it out, though its location in your harness may be a bit of a hunt... Jay Vessels 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending) Aphelion79 wrote: > Well... from what I understand various dealers telling me about the > S-10, is there is a brown/tan wire with a white stripe that you need to > disconnect to disable the ECM timing control... then set the timing from > there... however... I very well may have spliced it out and capped it > off as it most likely appeared to go to nothing when I redid the wiring > harness... so... if anyone could point me in the direction of a wiring > diagram for it I would be greatly appreciative! =) > > -Matt > > Aphelion79 wrote: > >> Ah yes, I am back! Remember me doing that crazy fuel injection >> conversion to my Jeep with the Iron Duke 151? Well it runs now! >> Kinda.. lol... >> >> Anyway, I'm wondering if any of you know how to set the timing on this >> thing? Do I jump a connector, unplug something, etc? From GuitarCrazyJim at aol.com Fri Apr 28 20:16:38 2006 From: GuitarCrazyJim at aol.com (GuitarCrazyJim at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:16:38 EDT Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- Message-ID: <2d0.7f0ec65.31841876@aol.com> I'm not familiar with the S 10 but on 80s & early 90s Camaros the tan wire you are looking for is in the harness high on the firewall near the passenger's side. You have to open the wire protection tubing to get to it. On Camaros the wire has a black connector to make disconnecting and reconnecting possible for setting the base timing. From dennysweet at charter.net Fri Apr 28 22:40:22 2006 From: dennysweet at charter.net (Denny) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:40:22 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- References: <2d0.7f0ec65.31841876@aol.com> Message-ID: <001a01c66b3e$a5a22850$1c02a8c0@dennyhuyir5nuj> Early S-10's the disconnect is under the heater in the passenger side floor board. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- > I'm not familiar with the S 10 but on 80s & early 90s Camaros the tan wire > you are looking for is in the harness high on the firewall near the > passenger's > side. You have to open the wire protection tubing to get to it. On > Camaros > the wire has a black connector to make disconnecting and reconnecting > possible > for setting the base timing. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From aphelion79 at cox.net Fri Apr 28 23:04:16 2006 From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 23:04:16 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- In-Reply-To: <001a01c66b3e$a5a22850$1c02a8c0@dennyhuyir5nuj> References: <2d0.7f0ec65.31841876@aol.com> <001a01c66b3e$a5a22850$1c02a8c0@dennyhuyir5nuj> Message-ID: <4452E5C0.1010405@cox.net> Right what the dealerships etc. have been telling me, but I don't HAVE an S-10. I just have the wiring and the ECM + TBI etc. from one. Does anyone have any more specific info?? I may have cut off the connector and need to know how it works with the ECM. I'm guessing it comes out of say, A1, and has the splice connector and then goes into something like A2? Does anyone know of any diagrams or info on where to look for a diagram etc? I can get ECM numbers etc. later, if they're needed and the year etc. isn't enough. Thanks for the continued support! -Matt Denny wrote: > Early S-10's the disconnect is under the heater in the passenger side > floor board. > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion > on Jeep- > > >> I'm not familiar with the S 10 but on 80s & early 90s Camaros the tan >> wire >> you are looking for is in the harness high on the firewall near the >> passenger's >> side. You have to open the wire protection tubing to get to it. On >> Camaros >> the wire has a black connector to make disconnecting and reconnecting >> possible >> for setting the base timing. >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > From jktucker at usamedia.tv Fri Apr 28 23:15:10 2006 From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Jake Tucker) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:15:10 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- In-Reply-To: <4452E5C0.1010405@cox.net> Message-ID: <000001c66b43$82a9ba20$0300a8c0@office> Matt, If you look at the GMECM FTP site, under /pub/manuals/1227747 you'll find some scanned in wiring diagrams. From the first pic (747ecm6.jpg), the EST bypass wire is shown connected to D5 of the 32 pin connector. On the 6th pic (747ecm6.jpg) that wire is shown going directly to the distributor on pin B. Jake -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Aphelion79 Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:04 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- Right what the dealerships etc. have been telling me, but I don't HAVE an S-10. I just have the wiring and the ECM + TBI etc. from one. Does anyone have any more specific info?? I may have cut off the connector and need to know how it works with the ECM. I'm guessing it comes out of say, A1, and has the splice connector and then goes into something like A2? Does anyone know of any diagrams or info on where to look for a diagram etc? I can get ECM numbers etc. later, if they're needed and the year etc. isn't enough. Thanks for the continued support! -Matt Denny wrote: > Early S-10's the disconnect is under the heater in the passenger side > floor board. > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion > on Jeep- > > >> I'm not familiar with the S 10 but on 80s & early 90s Camaros the tan >> wire >> you are looking for is in the harness high on the firewall near the >> passenger's >> side. You have to open the wire protection tubing to get to it. On >> Camaros >> the wire has a black connector to make disconnecting and reconnecting >> possible >> for setting the base timing. >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm From aphelion79 at cox.net Sat Apr 29 08:04:57 2006 From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:04:57 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- In-Reply-To: <000001c66b43$82a9ba20$0300a8c0@office> References: <000001c66b43$82a9ba20$0300a8c0@office> Message-ID: <44536479.6020607@cox.net> Ah, I will look into that... thanks a bunch! I'll dig into the wires sometime in the near future (its going to be pouring outside for the next few days it seems like) and let you know what I find! -Matt Jake Tucker wrote: >Matt, > If you look at the GMECM FTP site, under /pub/manuals/1227747 >you'll find some scanned in wiring diagrams. From the first pic >(747ecm6.jpg), the EST bypass wire is shown connected to D5 of the 32 >pin connector. On the 6th pic (747ecm6.jpg) that wire is shown going >directly to the distributor on pin B. > >Jake > >-----Original Message----- >From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On >Behalf Of Aphelion79 >Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:04 PM >To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on >Jeep- > >Right what the dealerships etc. have been telling me, but I don't HAVE >an S-10. I just have the wiring and the ECM + TBI etc. from one. Does >anyone have any more specific info?? I may have cut off the connector >and need to know how it works with the ECM. I'm guessing it comes out >of say, A1, and has the splice connector and then goes into something >like A2? Does anyone know of any diagrams or info on where to look for > >a diagram etc? I can get ECM numbers etc. later, if they're needed and >the year etc. isn't enough. > >Thanks for the continued support! >-Matt > >Denny wrote: > > > >>Early S-10's the disconnect is under the heater in the passenger side >>floor board. >>----- Original Message ----- From: >>To: >>Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:16 PM >>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion >>on Jeep- >> >> >> >> >>>I'm not familiar with the S 10 but on 80s & early 90s Camaros the tan >>> >>> > > > >>>wire >>>you are looking for is in the harness high on the firewall near the >>>passenger's >>>side. You have to open the wire protection tubing to get to it. On >>>Camaros >>>the wire has a black connector to make disconnecting and reconnecting >>> >>> > > > >>>possible >>>for setting the base timing. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > From ne14roxcj at gmail.com Sat Apr 29 11:59:04 2006 From: ne14roxcj at gmail.com (Beau Blankenship) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:59:04 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on Jeep- In-Reply-To: <44536479.6020607@cox.net> Message-ID: <44539b60.6b6fa4e9.3d7e.51f9@mx.gmail.com> I would almost guess that you are somewhere near me (Benton/Little Rock, AR), but looking at the radar screen today, it looks like that description pretty much applies to most of the country. If you had cut that wire, I don't think you would have computer timing control. It looks like it goes from D5 of the big ECM connector to pin B of the ignition module. If that wire is not connected, the ECM will not control spark advance (so that you can adjust the base timing.) <Matt, > If you look at the GMECM FTP site, under /pub/manuals/1227747 >you'll find some scanned in wiring diagrams. From the first pic >(747ecm6.jpg), the EST bypass wire is shown connected to D5 of the 32 >pin connector. On the 6th pic (747ecm6.jpg) that wire is shown going >directly to the distributor on pin B. > >Jake > >-----Original Message----- >From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On >Behalf Of Aphelion79 >Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:04 PM >To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion on >Jeep- > >Right what the dealerships etc. have been telling me, but I don't HAVE >an S-10. I just have the wiring and the ECM + TBI etc. from one. Does >anyone have any more specific info?? I may have cut off the connector >and need to know how it works with the ECM. I'm guessing it comes out >of say, A1, and has the splice connector and then goes into something >like A2? Does anyone know of any diagrams or info on where to look for > >a diagram etc? I can get ECM numbers etc. later, if they're needed and >the year etc. isn't enough. > >Thanks for the continued support! >-Matt > >Denny wrote: > > > >>Early S-10's the disconnect is under the heater in the passenger side >>floor board. >>----- Original Message ----- From: >>To: >>Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 6:16 PM >>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88 Chevy S-10 Pickup -Fuel Injection Conversion >>on Jeep- >> >> >> >> >>>I'm not familiar with the S 10 but on 80s & early 90s Camaros the tan >>> >>> > > > >>>wire >>>you are looking for is in the harness high on the firewall near the >>>passenger's >>>side. You have to open the wire protection tubing to get to it. On >>>Camaros >>>the wire has a black connector to make disconnecting and reconnecting >>> >>> > > > >>>possible >>>for setting the base timing. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Gmecm mailing list >>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Gmecm mailing list >>Gmecm at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm