From amech at comcast.net Thu Feb 1 02:05:10 2007 From: amech at comcast.net (Rsetina) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 02:05:10 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 23, Issue 28 In-Reply-To: <20070131192717.52246.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20070131192717.52246.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45C19F36.8030804@comcast.net> Cowen wrote: >Can you trigger the solenoid manually, to confirm it >works? That would help rule out the ECM (I know >you've tested for resistance etc, but what the heck). > >Is it stuck open, or closed? In either case, is there >an engine condition that would cause this (such as say >high coolant temp, loss of ignition signal, I don't >know??). Look for a circuit that's actually supposed >to lock out the solenoid, and if it exists, find out >if/why it's been triggered. > >Any chance the wastegate itself is mechanically >stuck? Excess carbon buildup, corrosion, broken >return spring, gate is loose on shaft (causing binding >in bore)? > >I didn't know they made a 3.1 with turbo. Is that the >DOHC 3.1? > >Duncan > > > >>I have a problem with a 1990 grand prix ste. The >>wastegate solenoid >>won't operate. Its grounded by terminal a 18. The >>tests say it's a bad >>ecm but ive tried 6 different ecms and 2 proms. >>What could possibly >>cause this besides a bad Quad driver? Tested >>solenoid for low resistance >>and current draw tested grounds and power feeds to >>ecm. all is ok. When >>you jump the aldl terminals all the other solenoids >>and relays operate. >> >> > > >**********************END TRANSMISSION********************** > > > >Yes I can ground the wire going to the solenoid and turn it on. This closes the vac/pressure going to the wastegate actuator. It will then get full boost. in fact will go into over boost over 10.5 psi. ecm cuts fuel to protect engine. thats the way it was set up to work. my way around this was cutting the acuator rod threading it to make it adjustable. it works fine and runs good. But I would still like to figure out why the ecm won't ground it. there are no other problems that i can find. as far as i know there are no interlocks for the solenoid. Or are there??? The 3.1 is the pushrod engine they only made it in 89 and 90. This will be the first one I couldn't fix. I know I'm missing something but What? Thanks Bob S. > From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Thu Feb 1 10:03:34 2007 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:03:34 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating Message-ID: The bill is due for WWW hosting for 2007. It's $240, but there's only $178 in the kitty. If every subscriber gave a buck via paypal we'd be set for a couple years, at least. So think about it, there's a link to donate at www.diy-efi.org. Checks are OK also, if you're not setup with paypal. email me and I'll send you a mailing address. I should also mention that I'd welcome someone else taking over the lists and WWW maintenance. Family demands are such that I can't spend very much time on it anymore (any time, really). I've been doing this now for several years and enjoyed it but am ready to hand it off if anyone is willing to step up. The only thing that has to be done is pay the hosting bill (and ask for money when needed). Other than that it can pretty much run on autopilot, although tinkering with the twiki, archive search engine, etc. are all possibilities. regards, --steve ------------------- Steve Ravet ARM steve.ravet at arm.com From mfrels at ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 1 19:08:24 2007 From: mfrels at ix.netcom.com (Mike Frels) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 19:08:24 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating Message-ID: <14797196.1170378505036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks for all you have done Steve. I PayPal'd ya ten earlier today. Mike -----Original Message----- >From: Steve Ravet >Sent: Feb 1, 2007 10:03 AM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org, gmecm at diy-efi.org, efi332 at diy-efi.org, wbo2 at diy-efi.org >Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating > >The bill is due for WWW hosting for 2007. It's $240, but there's only >$178 in the kitty. If every subscriber gave a buck via paypal we'd be >set for a couple years, at least. So think about it, there's a link to >donate at www.diy-efi.org. Checks are OK also, if you're not setup with >paypal. email me and I'll send you a mailing address. > From clair.davis at charter.net Thu Feb 1 20:20:18 2007 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 20:20:18 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam Message-ID: <000b01c74670$af227160$03000004@davis> Now that my engine is running pretty reasonably, it's apparent that it's PIG RICH at idle. I'm about 99% sure this is due to the lower-than-I-hoped idle vacuum reading. When running with a carb, this engine managed about 13-14" of vacuum (44-47kPa if I'm doing the conversion right), now it's 10-12" (34-40kPa). The tune I received from my chip supplier supposedly wanted 15" at idle (51kPa). Since I'm not reaching this level, even after advancing the cam 2*, I think I need to change my idle vacuum level. Going through TPRT, it doesn't appear that this is any kind of one-point setting, and is probably in the tables. Is it reasonable to adjust the table points on the idle end down to where I need them? It might be that I get better vacuum if the mixture is leaner, but I'm thinking that the rich mix is due to the apparent load on the engine, not a quirk in the VE table (yet). Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated... Clair _________________ 67 Cuda Vert (?/833) 68 Sport Fury Vert (NOM 440/727) 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/7730EFI) 74 Dart Swinger (440/727) From JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com Thu Feb 1 21:32:35 2007 From: JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com (JohnsHome) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:32:35 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam In-Reply-To: <000b01c74670$af227160$03000004@davis> Message-ID: I would suggest upping your idle timing a bit to see if that helps. (closed throttle table L81FD-8209) Removing about 40mV from the o2 constants may help as well. They are at L8496 thru L8498 locations. Will get the smell of unburnt fuel to get better as well. Not knowing what cam you are running, although it sounds like its mid 220 range from the description I'm not sure what else to suggest. Hopefully you are running a heated o2. If not, get one for sure. Idle will probably need to be around 700-800 rpm. There is a hard code idle limiter in AUJP if that is what you are running. It can be increased by changing BOTH values to be the same at locations L426C & L4270. these are in the code and will need to be added to your XDF or just done in the hex editor. They are single byte, RPM = 6400/255 = 25 rpm increments. For 1000 RPM max idle you would use a value of $50 These have helped me out with my 224/230 roller 350. My idle is at 58Kpa @ 800 RPM. HTH John > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Clair Davis > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:20 PM > To: For discussion of GM EFI hardware and software > Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > > Now that my engine is running pretty reasonably, it's apparent > that it's PIG > RICH at idle. I'm about 99% sure this is due to the > lower-than-I-hoped idle > vacuum reading. When running with a carb, this engine managed about 13-14" > of vacuum (44-47kPa if I'm doing the conversion right), now it's 10-12" > (34-40kPa). The tune I received from my chip supplier supposedly > wanted 15" > at idle (51kPa). Since I'm not reaching this level, even after > advancing the > cam 2*, I think I need to change my idle vacuum level. > > Going through TPRT, it doesn't appear that this is any kind of one-point > setting, and is probably in the tables. Is it reasonable to > adjust the table > points on the idle end down to where I need them? It might be that I get > better vacuum if the mixture is leaner, but I'm thinking that the rich mix > is due to the apparent load on the engine, not a quirk in the VE table > (yet). > > Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated... > > Clair > _________________ > 67 Cuda Vert (?/833) > 68 Sport Fury Vert (NOM 440/727) > 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/7730EFI) > 74 Dart Swinger (440/727) > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From efi at dyakron.com Thu Feb 1 21:32:52 2007 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:32:52 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam References: <000b01c74670$af227160$03000004@davis> Message-ID: <001001c7467a$d215d8b0$6501a8c0@IBMm> I suck at explanations, but give me credit for effort. Sounds like you have a good idea of what's happening. The ECM is seeing less vacuum at idle speed than expected. With a MAP system, that is usually interperated as a load on the engine, and fuel is added. The pig-rich problem you describe is fairly common after a larger cam is installed. If the fuel table (with its RPM vs MAP values) is suggesting a given amount of fuel, and the O2 sensor is seeing the over-rich condition, the block learn value will be lower than 128. Mine was below 100 after a cam change in my Syclone V6.. As you take fuel out by reducing the values at the lower end of the table, you will see the block learn numbers go back up. If the value goes above 128 by very much, you went too far on the lean-quest and need to add some fuel back in. Some folks have band-aided this cam-swap situation by using a micro switch to determine when the throttle is close, and then jury-rig the MAP value with a pot or resistor, thus lieing to the ECM about the idle vacuum. I prefer the insanity that comes with trying to tweak the tables. I hope I didn't confuse the issue. BTW, I have not worked with the $8D code, so others may have better suggestions. MV > Now that my engine is running pretty reasonably, it's apparent that it's > PIG > RICH at idle. I'm about 99% sure this is due to the lower-than-I-hoped > idle > vacuum reading. When running with a carb, this engine managed about 13-14" > of vacuum (44-47kPa if I'm doing the conversion right), now it's 10-12" > (34-40kPa). The tune I received from my chip supplier supposedly wanted > 15" > at idle (51kPa). Since I'm not reaching this level, even after advancing > the > cam 2*, I think I need to change my idle vacuum level. > > Going through TPRT, it doesn't appear that this is any kind of one-point > setting, and is probably in the tables. Is it reasonable to adjust the > table > points on the idle end down to where I need them? It might be that I get > better vacuum if the mixture is leaner, but I'm thinking that the rich mix > is due to the apparent load on the engine, not a quirk in the VE table > (yet). > > Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated... > > Clair > _________________ > 67 Cuda Vert (?/833) > 68 Sport Fury Vert (NOM 440/727) > 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/7730EFI) > 74 Dart Swinger (440/727) > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From clair.davis at charter.net Thu Feb 1 21:44:23 2007 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 21:44:23 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam References: <000b01c74670$af227160$03000004@davis> <001001c7467a$d215d8b0$6501a8c0@IBMm> Message-ID: <000c01c7467c$6dceb1e0$03000004@davis> Mike, That's what's going on. I did try playing with the MAP signal by hooking a vacuum tester up to the sensor, but it was hard to see if it made a difference, as the idle speed fluctuated some, and of course the MAP didn't change in response. I haven't done any datalogging since I started playing with this particular bin - it's one I burned to correct the cylinder volume and injector size constants that were off in my original tune. It's better now, but still rich. Looks like I need to take a look at the BLM's soon. I just need to do that on a day with a good north wind so I don't fill the house with fumes again... John, the cam is a Crane HMV272, 216* intake, 228* exhaust, on a 112* LCA. I advanced the cam 2* as I said, so I think I *COULD* get a decent vacuum signal from this cam. No heated O2 at this point, just the plain old 1-wire GM unit. I will be using my LM-1 at some point, but just trying to get sorted enough to hit the road for a bit now. Idle speed is 800-850, depending on engine temp, and it does a good job of holding that, now that my IAC is working like it should. 58kPa at idle would be awesome, as I REALLY don't want to recam this critter if I can tune the problem away. Thanks for the input, guys! Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike V" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > I suck at explanations, but give me credit for effort. > Sounds like you have a good idea of what's happening. > The ECM is seeing less vacuum at idle speed than expected. > With a MAP system, that is usually interperated as a load > on the engine, and fuel is added. The pig-rich problem > you describe is fairly common after a larger cam is installed. > If the fuel table (with its RPM vs MAP values) is > suggesting a given amount of fuel, and the O2 sensor is > seeing the over-rich condition, the block learn value > will be lower than 128. Mine was below 100 after a > cam change in my Syclone V6.. As you take fuel > out by reducing the values at the lower end of the > table, you will see the block learn numbers go back up. > If the value goes above 128 by very much, you went > too far on the lean-quest and need to add > some fuel back in. Some folks have band-aided this > cam-swap situation by using a micro switch to determine > when the throttle is close, and then jury-rig the MAP value > with a pot or resistor, thus lieing to the ECM about the > idle vacuum. I prefer the insanity that comes with > trying to tweak the tables. I hope I didn't confuse the issue. > BTW, I have not worked with the $8D code, so others > may have better suggestions. > MV > > > Now that my engine is running pretty reasonably, it's apparent that it's > > PIG > > RICH at idle. I'm about 99% sure this is due to the lower-than-I-hoped > > idle > > vacuum reading. When running with a carb, this engine managed about 13-14" > > of vacuum (44-47kPa if I'm doing the conversion right), now it's 10-12" > > (34-40kPa). The tune I received from my chip supplier supposedly wanted > > 15" > > at idle (51kPa). Since I'm not reaching this level, even after advancing > > the > > cam 2*, I think I need to change my idle vacuum level. > > > > Going through TPRT, it doesn't appear that this is any kind of one-point > > setting, and is probably in the tables. Is it reasonable to adjust the > > table > > points on the idle end down to where I need them? It might be that I get > > better vacuum if the mixture is leaner, but I'm thinking that the rich mix > > is due to the apparent load on the engine, not a quirk in the VE table > > (yet). > > > > Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated... > > > > Clair > > _________________ > > 67 Cuda Vert (?/833) > > 68 Sport Fury Vert (NOM 440/727) > > 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/7730EFI) > > 74 Dart Swinger (440/727) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From darrenfreed at gmail.com Fri Feb 2 06:58:09 2007 From: darrenfreed at gmail.com (Darren Freed) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 12:58:09 +0000 Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating In-Reply-To: <14797196.1170378505036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <14797196.1170378505036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Yes, Steve, thanks for managing this list. you have mail... darren On 2/2/07, Mike Frels wrote: > > Thanks for all you have done Steve. I PayPal'd ya ten earlier today. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Steve Ravet > >Sent: Feb 1, 2007 10:03 AM > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org, gmecm at diy-efi.org, efi332 at diy-efi.org, > wbo2 at diy-efi.org > >Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating > > > >The bill is due for WWW hosting for 2007. It's $240, but there's only > >$178 in the kitty. If every subscriber gave a buck via paypal we'd be > >set for a couple years, at least. So think about it, there's a link to > >donate at www.diy-efi.org. Checks are OK also, if you're not setup with > >paypal. email me and I'll send you a mailing address. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From Terminal_Crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Fri Feb 2 09:36:46 2007 From: Terminal_Crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk (Terminal Crazy) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 15:36:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating In-Reply-To: References: <14797196.1170378505036.JavaMail.root@elwamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4eaee8c9d7Terminal_Crazy@sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk> On 02 Feb, Darren Freed wrote: > Yes, Steve, thanks for managing this list. you have mail... > darren > >On 2/2/07, Mike Frels wrote: > > Thanks for all you have done Steve. I PayPal'd ya ten earlier today. > > Mike Me also. -- Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6 terminal_crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Lancashire England http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/ From dozierhc at aol.com Fri Feb 2 13:00:49 2007 From: dozierhc at aol.com (dozierhc at aol.com) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:00:49 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Looking for Hack of MAF sensor read routine in P4 ECM Message-ID: <8C91513963DAA9C-1E54-1D9F@FWM-M12.sysops.aol.com> Does anyone out there have a section of disassembled P4 code for reading the MAF sensor on a frequency based ECM such as the Buick 1227148 $31T code or such. Want to see if I can graft a modification of it into $8D and $58 code to read a Flex-Fuel sensor... Thanks, Hank ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. From carl-otto at usa.net Fri Feb 2 14:25:19 2007 From: carl-otto at usa.net (CARL-OTTO RUSTAD) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 21:25:19 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating Message-ID: <210LBBuyT6140S27.1170447919@cmsweb27.cms.usa.net> Hei Steve! I left you a mail. Thank you for all you have done keeping the list alive Steve. It is great to speak to people from all over the planet, and in every corner of it. People with a high scientific level of knowledge on almost all topics, no question to dumb to ask, no borders and a common goal to help each other right away. We all love you. Carl. ------ Original Message ------ Received: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 05:12:29 PM CET From: "Steve Ravet" To: , , , Cc: Subject: [Gmecm] please consider donating The bill is due for WWW hosting for 2007. It's $240, but there's only $178 in the kitty. If every subscriber gave a buck via paypal we'd be set for a couple years, at least. So think about it, there's a link to donate at www.diy-efi.org. Checks are OK also, if you're not setup with paypal. email me and I'll send you a mailing address. I should also mention that I'd welcome someone else taking over the lists and WWW maintenance. Family demands are such that I can't spend very much time on it anymore (any time, really). I've been doing this now for several years and enjoyed it but am ready to hand it off if anyone is willing to step up. The only thing that has to be done is pay the hosting bill (and ask for money when needed). Other than that it can pretty much run on autopilot, although tinkering with the twiki, archive search engine, etc. are all possibilities. regards, --steve ------------------- Steve Ravet ARM steve.ravet at arm.com _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From clair.davis at charter.net Fri Feb 2 22:43:40 2007 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 22:43:40 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam References: Message-ID: <000e01c7474d$e0f73620$03000004@davis> John, Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, and 0.52? I haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the idle spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed Throttle vs. RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big bump, and this engine likes idle advance. With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what the BLM's look like as well. On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving versions of bins to help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, so I've been keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll need multiple files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with what has been changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same time. Maybe no biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There must be some tidier ways, though. Thanks again, Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "JohnsHome" To: Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > I would suggest upping your idle timing a bit to see if that helps. (closed > throttle table L81FD-8209) > Removing about 40mV from the o2 constants may help as well. > They are at L8496 thru L8498 locations. Will get the smell of unburnt fuel > to get better as well. > Not knowing what cam you are running, although it sounds like its mid 220 > range from the description I'm not sure what else to suggest. Hopefully you > are running a heated o2. If not, get one for sure. > Idle will probably need to be around 700-800 rpm. > There is a hard code idle limiter in AUJP if that is what you are running. > It can be increased by changing BOTH values to be the same at locations > L426C & L4270. > these are in the code and will need to be added to your XDF or just done in > the hex editor. > They are single byte, RPM = 6400/255 = 25 rpm increments. > For 1000 RPM max idle you would use a value of $50 > These have helped me out with my 224/230 roller 350. My idle is at 58Kpa @ > 800 RPM. > HTH > John > From romans at starstream.net Fri Feb 2 23:25:51 2007 From: romans at starstream.net (Mark Romans) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 21:25:51 -0800 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam References: <000e01c7474d$e0f73620$03000004@davis> Message-ID: <002901c74753$c4e46ab0$6801a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8> Every time you make a change, save the file with a new name and keep a log of what was changed on each file. That way in case you have undesired consequences you can always go back to a known good one. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clair Davis" To: Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > John, > Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... > > In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: > 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) > 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) > 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) > > Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, and 0.52? > I > haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the idle > spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed Throttle > vs. > RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big bump, and this > engine likes idle advance. > > With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what the BLM's > look like as well. > > On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving versions of bins > to > help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, so I've > been > keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll need > multiple > files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with what has been > changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get > ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same time. Maybe no > biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There must be some > tidier ways, though. > > Thanks again, > > Clair > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JohnsHome" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:32 PM > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > >> I would suggest upping your idle timing a bit to see if that helps. > (closed >> throttle table L81FD-8209) >> Removing about 40mV from the o2 constants may help as well. >> They are at L8496 thru L8498 locations. Will get the smell of unburnt >> fuel >> to get better as well. >> Not knowing what cam you are running, although it sounds like its mid 220 >> range from the description I'm not sure what else to suggest. Hopefully > you >> are running a heated o2. If not, get one for sure. >> Idle will probably need to be around 700-800 rpm. >> There is a hard code idle limiter in AUJP if that is what you are >> running. >> It can be increased by changing BOTH values to be the same at locations >> L426C & L4270. >> these are in the code and will need to be added to your XDF or just done > in >> the hex editor. >> They are single byte, RPM = 6400/255 = 25 rpm increments. >> For 1000 RPM max idle you would use a value of $50 >> These have helped me out with my 224/230 roller 350. My idle is at 58Kpa >> @ >> 800 RPM. >> HTH >> John >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com Sat Feb 3 00:06:57 2007 From: JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com (JohnsHome) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 01:06:57 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam In-Reply-To: <000e01c7474d$e0f73620$03000004@davis> Message-ID: Yes, I would start there and see if it responds. My final values that I run now are actually 0.050 lower. I found going farther made matters worse so go in small steps after 0.035 less. You still have the stock settings of AUJP. The numbers at the end are my current values. Cleaned up the idle (mostly) and got rid of the smelly exhaust. > 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) Mine 0.539 ($7C) > 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) Mine 0.539 ($7C) > 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) Mine 0.513 ($74) I still highly recommend getting the 3 wire o2. You could drop out of CL when idling very easily. My closed throttle SA is at 28*, my motor like the advance there. Gets real rough when lower. Check that you have "blended" a bit of that coming off idle with the values in your main table. Could get some stumbles there if the change is too drastic. Wish this snow would go away!!! John > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Clair Davis > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 11:44 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > > John, > Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... > > In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: > 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) 0.539 ($7C) > 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) 0.539 ($7C) > 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) 0.513 ($74) > > Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, > and 0.52? I > haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the idle > spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed > Throttle vs. > RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big bump, and this > engine likes idle advance. > > With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what the BLM's > look like as well. > > On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving versions > of bins to > help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, so > I've been > keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll > need multiple > files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with what has been > changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get > ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same time. Maybe no > biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There must be some > tidier ways, though. > > Thanks again, > > Clair > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JohnsHome" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 9:32 PM > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > > > I would suggest upping your idle timing a bit to see if that helps. > (closed > > throttle table L81FD-8209) > > Removing about 40mV from the o2 constants may help as well. > > They are at L8496 thru L8498 locations. Will get the smell of > unburnt fuel > > to get better as well. > > Not knowing what cam you are running, although it sounds like > its mid 220 > > range from the description I'm not sure what else to suggest. Hopefully > you > > are running a heated o2. If not, get one for sure. > > Idle will probably need to be around 700-800 rpm. > > There is a hard code idle limiter in AUJP if that is what you > are running. > > It can be increased by changing BOTH values to be the same at locations > > L426C & L4270. > > these are in the code and will need to be added to your XDF or just done > in > > the hex editor. > > They are single byte, RPM = 6400/255 = 25 rpm increments. > > For 1000 RPM max idle you would use a value of $50 > > These have helped me out with my 224/230 roller 350. My idle is > at 58Kpa @ > > 800 RPM. > > HTH > > John > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From b.shaw at comcast.net Sat Feb 3 08:38:25 2007 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam In-Reply-To: <000e01c7474d$e0f73620$03000004@davis> References: <000e01c7474d$e0f73620$03000004@davis> Message-ID: <45C49E61.8070606@comcast.net> Hi Clair, Congrats on getting it running. I save into a new file every time I save, keeping a copy of every one I burn, as well as a text file describing each and every single change in each version. I'm up to mybbzb69.bin at the moment, will probably go through a bunch more with the new engine. Disk space is cheap. Bill 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749 Clair Davis wrote: > John, > Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... > > In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: > 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) > 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) > 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) > > Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, and 0.52? I > haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the idle > spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed Throttle vs. > RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big bump, and this > engine likes idle advance. > > With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what the BLM's > look like as well. > > On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving versions of bins to > help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, so I've been > keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll need multiple > files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with what has been > changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get > ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same time. Maybe no > biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There must be some > tidier ways, though. > > Thanks again, > > Clair > From clair.davis at charter.net Sat Feb 3 14:37:41 2007 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 14:37:41 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam References: <000e01c7474d$e0f73620$03000004@davis> <45C49E61.8070606@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004c01c747d3$270ec760$03000004@davis> Well, I guess that's what I'll do, just start with XXX001.bin or something equally random, just so long as there's some sort of sequence. Keeping a text file with the same name will let me keep just one XDF and still have all the changes I've made and when. Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Shaw" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > Hi Clair, > > Congrats on getting it running. I save into a new file every time I > save, keeping a copy of every one I burn, as well as a text file > describing each and every single change in each version. I'm up to > mybbzb69.bin at the moment, will probably go through a bunch more with > the new engine. Disk space is cheap. > > Bill > 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749 > > Clair Davis wrote: > > John, > > Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... > > > > In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: > > 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) > > 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) > > 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) > > > > Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, and 0.52? I > > haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the idle > > spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed Throttle vs. > > RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big bump, and this > > engine likes idle advance. > > > > With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what the BLM's > > look like as well. > > > > On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving versions of bins to > > help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, so I've been > > keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll need multiple > > files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with what has been > > changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get > > ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same time. Maybe no > > biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There must be some > > tidier ways, though. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Clair > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com Sat Feb 3 15:59:17 2007 From: JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com (JohnsHome) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 16:59:17 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam In-Reply-To: <45C49E61.8070606@comcast.net> Message-ID: Clair and Bill, I'm up to around bin#75 myself :) (many sub-versions of 0-F too for use with the 16 switcher) Don't forget you can copy the "****.log" file that TP makes each time you change the bin. Do a "save as.." first, then make the changes you want to try. If you just make changes and then do "save as.." to make a new file and keep the old one intact, You won't get a log file. Keep those with your versions and it will help to see what you did before... Eventually when you have to start over (and you will, Its inevitable) history can get you on the right path again. you shouldn't need to rename your XDF unless you make a "definition" adder or change that you want to be sure you use the most up to date file. Too many files can be problematic too with multiple computers, but rev numbers will help keep your sanity. John > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Shaw [mailto:b.shaw at comcast.net] > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:38 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > > Hi Clair, > > Congrats on getting it running. I save into a new file every time I > save, keeping a copy of every one I burn, as well as a text file > describing each and every single change in each version. I'm up to > mybbzb69.bin at the moment, will probably go through a bunch more with > the new engine. Disk space is cheap. > > Bill > 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749 > > Clair Davis wrote: > > John, > > Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... > > > > In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: > > 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) > > 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) > > 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) > > > > Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, > and 0.52? I > > haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the idle > > spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed > Throttle vs. > > RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big > bump, and this > > engine likes idle advance. > > > > With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what > the BLM's > > look like as well. > > > > On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving > versions of bins to > > help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, > so I've been > > keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll > need multiple > > files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with > what has been > > changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get > > ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same > time. Maybe no > > biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There > must be some > > tidier ways, though. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > Clair > > > > > From clair.davis at charter.net Sat Feb 3 16:18:28 2007 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 16:18:28 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam References: Message-ID: <00cb01c747e1$3b552d00$03000004@davis> With regards to going to a heated (3+ wires) O2, is it simply a matter of running a power wire and ground wire, or is a 7730 capable of running one already? Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "JohnsHome" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 3:59 PM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > Clair and Bill, > I'm up to around bin#75 myself :) (many sub-versions of 0-F too for use > with the 16 switcher) > Don't forget you can copy the "****.log" file that TP makes each time you > change the bin. > Do a "save as.." first, then make the changes you want to try. > If you just make changes and then do "save as.." to make a new file and keep > the old one intact, > You won't get a log file. > Keep those with your versions and it will help to see what you did before... > Eventually when you have to start over (and you will, Its inevitable) > history can get you on the right path again. > you shouldn't need to rename your XDF unless you make a "definition" adder > or change that you want to be sure you use the most up to date file. > Too many files can be problematic too with multiple computers, but rev > numbers will help keep your sanity. > John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill Shaw [mailto:b.shaw at comcast.net] > > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:38 AM > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > > > > > Hi Clair, > > > > Congrats on getting it running. I save into a new file every time I > > save, keeping a copy of every one I burn, as well as a text file > > describing each and every single change in each version. I'm up to > > mybbzb69.bin at the moment, will probably go through a bunch more with > > the new engine. Disk space is cheap. > > > > Bill > > 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749 > > > > Clair Davis wrote: > > > John, > > > Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... > > > > > > In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: > > > 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) > > > 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) > > > 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) > > > > > > Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, > > and 0.52? I > > > haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the idle > > > spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed > > Throttle vs. > > > RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big > > bump, and this > > > engine likes idle advance. > > > > > > With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what > > the BLM's > > > look like as well. > > > > > > On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving > > versions of bins to > > > help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, > > so I've been > > > keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll > > need multiple > > > files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with > > what has been > > > changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get > > > ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same > > time. Maybe no > > > biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There > > must be some > > > tidier ways, though. > > > > > > Thanks again, > > > > > > Clair > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From jay at vessels-clan.com Sat Feb 3 17:29:03 2007 From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:29:03 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam In-Reply-To: <00cb01c747e1$3b552d00$03000004@davis> References: <00cb01c747e1$3b552d00$03000004@davis> Message-ID: <45C51ABF.1030202@vessels-clan.com> Hi there! A heated 3-wire sensor (i.e. AFS-74) looks to the ECM like a single-wire part so no worries there. You supply switched 12V and ground for the heater. The signal wire connects to the ECM just like the single-wire one. The heater is always powered with the ignition key on, so there's no worries about having to control the heater with the ECM. I powered mine from the same circuit that powers my ignition coil, for instance. The heater isn't polarized, so it doesn't matter which wire is power and which is ground. My local GM dealer had both the sensor and a pigtail harness for the 3-wire plug in stock, so it was a quick, easy addition. Jay Vessels 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending) Clair Davis wrote: > With regards to going to a heated (3+ wires) O2, is it simply a matter of > running a power wire and ground wire, or is a 7730 capable of running one > already? > > Clair > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JohnsHome" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 3:59 PM > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > >> Clair and Bill, >> I'm up to around bin#75 myself :) (many sub-versions of 0-F too for use >> with the 16 switcher) >> Don't forget you can copy the "****.log" file that TP makes each time you >> change the bin. >> Do a "save as.." first, then make the changes you want to try. >> If you just make changes and then do "save as.." to make a new file and > keep >> the old one intact, >> You won't get a log file. >> Keep those with your versions and it will help to see what you did > before... >> Eventually when you have to start over (and you will, Its inevitable) >> history can get you on the right path again. >> you shouldn't need to rename your XDF unless you make a "definition" adder >> or change that you want to be sure you use the most up to date file. >> Too many files can be problematic too with multiple computers, but rev >> numbers will help keep your sanity. >> John >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Shaw [mailto:b.shaw at comcast.net] >>> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:38 AM >>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam >>> >>> >>> Hi Clair, >>> >>> Congrats on getting it running. I save into a new file every time I >>> save, keeping a copy of every one I burn, as well as a text file >>> describing each and every single change in each version. I'm up to >>> mybbzb69.bin at the moment, will probably go through a bunch more with >>> the new engine. Disk space is cheap. >>> >>> Bill >>> 928s 5 sp. Vortech/749 >>> >>> Clair Davis wrote: >>>> John, >>>> Question regarding the O2 constants you mentioned... >>>> >>>> In the Constants/Scalars section, I've got: >>>> 0.60V at 496 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Threshold Fast) >>>> 0.60V at 497 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Upper) >>>> 0.56V at 498 (Idle O2 Rich/Lean Slow Zero Error Lower) >>>> >>>> Are you saying to knock them all down by 0.04 - to 0.54, 0.54, >>> and 0.52? I >>>> haven't done that yet, but I can before I burn again. I bumped the > idle >>>> spark advance at 800rpm up to 24.96* from 20.04* in the Closed >>> Throttle vs. >>>> RPM table. That's the same as the 1200rpm point, not a big >>> bump, and this >>>> engine likes idle advance. >>>> >>>> With some luck, I'll get to try this out tomorrow, and see what >>> the BLM's >>>> look like as well. >>>> >>>> On a semi-related note, what are some thoughts on saving >>> versions of bins to >>>> help track progress? I've got very few changes at this point, >>> so I've been >>>> keeping essentially a single file so far. I can see how I'll >>> need multiple >>>> files in the very near future, and I'd like to keep up with >>> what has been >>>> changed. I'm thinking date-stamp-type file names, but that can get >>>> ungainly, and the XDF would have to be changed at the same >>> time. Maybe no >>>> biggie, if I keep the date stamp in a directory name. There >>> must be some >>>> tidier ways, though. >>>> >>>> Thanks again, >>>> >>>> Clair >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > > From roblewis at bigriver.net Mon Feb 5 09:58:12 2007 From: roblewis at bigriver.net (Robby) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:58:12 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam References: <00cb01c747e1$3b552d00$03000004@davis> <45C51ABF.1030202@vessels-clan.com> Message-ID: <001901c7493e$70e563f0$0301a8c0@LAPTOP> A lot of people are powering the heater by the fuel pump circuit, that way your heater will only be on when the engine is running... helps your O2 live longer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Vessels" To: Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > Hi there! > > A heated 3-wire sensor (i.e. AFS-74) looks to the ECM like a single-wire > part so no worries there. You supply switched 12V and ground for the > heater. The signal wire connects to the ECM just like the single-wire > one. The heater is always powered with the ignition key on, so there's no > worries about having to control the heater with the ECM. I powered mine > from the same circuit that powers my ignition coil, for instance. The > heater isn't polarized, so it doesn't matter which wire is power and which > is ground. > > My local GM dealer had both the sensor and a pigtail harness for the > 3-wire plug in stock, so it was a quick, easy addition. > > Jay Vessels > 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI > 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending) From mfrels at ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 5 12:01:57 2007 From: mfrels at ix.netcom.com (Mike Frels) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:01:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam Message-ID: <24551872.1170698517414.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> When I added a heated O2 sensor I closed the heater circuit via a relay that was switched in conjunction with the PORT circuit of the A.I.R. system. That way the O2 sensor was only powered when the ECM allowing air into the exhaust manifolds for a while after startup. -----Original Message----- >From: Robby >Sent: Feb 5, 2007 10:58 AM >To: gmecm at diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > >A lot of people are powering the heater by the fuel pump circuit, that way >your heater will only >be on when the engine is running... helps your O2 live longer > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jay Vessels" >To: >Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 5:29 PM >Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Adjusting 7730/$8D for larger cam > > >> Hi there! >> >> A heated 3-wire sensor (i.e. AFS-74) looks to the ECM like a single-wire >> part so no worries there. You supply switched 12V and ground for the >> heater. The signal wire connects to the ECM just like the single-wire >> one. The heater is always powered with the ignition key on, so there's no >> worries about having to control the heater with the ECM. I powered mine >> from the same circuit that powers my ignition coil, for instance. The >> heater isn't polarized, so it doesn't matter which wire is power and which >> is ground. >> >> My local GM dealer had both the sensor and a pigtail harness for the >> 3-wire plug in stock, so it was a quick, easy addition. >> >> Jay Vessels >> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI >> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending) > > >_______________________________________________ >Gmecm mailing list >Gmecm at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From captain_krill at yahoo.com Tue Feb 6 11:05:21 2007 From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 09:05:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems Message-ID: <20070206170521.42097.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello folks,in trying to correct high CO and low mileage from my wife's 1992 Tracker, I've encountered something I didn't expect. Yesterday, while trying to test the O2 sensor with a multimeter (indeciferable readings, will try again tonight), I was running the can with the O2 disconnected. It did not trigger the MIL! Now, the MIL functioned when I disconnected the IAT, so I know the light and wiring are good. How can a sensor as important as the O2 sensor NOT trigger the light? Unfortunately, I was low on time and I didn't try to pull a code last night. Does anyone have an idea why the O2 failure would not trigger the MIL? Insurance runs out Thursday, so I'm getting desperate to find out why it's not running right! To date, I've swapped the ecm, TB, and all sensors except CTS (swapping it tonight) with little effect. Thanks folks, Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL From Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca Tue Feb 6 12:05:46 2007 From: Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Ford, Pat) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:05:46 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems In-Reply-To: <20070206170521.42097.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20070206170521.42097.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B9558@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca> I don't know why it doesn't trip the light either, for me the indicator was the heater wires melted. Mine died from water immersion when hot and I think the heater came apart and did bad stuff before shorting to ground. Pat -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Cowen Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:05 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems Hello folks,in trying to correct high CO and low mileage from my wife's 1992 Tracker, I've encountered something I didn't expect. Yesterday, while trying to test the O2 sensor with a multimeter (indeciferable readings, will try again tonight), I was running the can with the O2 disconnected. It did not trigger the MIL! Now, the MIL functioned when I disconnected the IAT, so I know the light and wiring are good. How can a sensor as important as the O2 sensor NOT trigger the light? Unfortunately, I was low on time and I didn't try to pull a code last night. Does anyone have an idea why the O2 failure would not trigger the MIL? Insurance runs out Thursday, so I'm getting desperate to find out why it's not running right! To date, I've swapped the ecm, TB, and all sensors except CTS (swapping it tonight) with little effect. Thanks folks, Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From rjdrew at adelphia.net Tue Feb 6 12:31:29 2007 From: rjdrew at adelphia.net (Ron Drew) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:31:29 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems References: <20070206170521.42097.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B9558@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca> Message-ID: <000301c74a1d$056d3aa0$6501a8c0@RonHome> Duncan, perhaps someone in the forum could verify if this is correct: I think the ECM does not monitor the health of the 02 readings if the water temp reading remains below the closed loop threshold temp? Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ford, Pat" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 1:05 PM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems I don't know why it doesn't trip the light either, for me the indicator was the heater wires melted. Mine died from water immersion when hot and I think the heater came apart and did bad stuff before shorting to ground. Pat -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Cowen Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:05 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems Hello folks,in trying to correct high CO and low mileage from my wife's 1992 Tracker, I've encountered something I didn't expect. Yesterday, while trying to test the O2 sensor with a multimeter (indeciferable readings, will try again tonight), I was running the can with the O2 disconnected. It did not trigger the MIL! Now, the MIL functioned when I disconnected the IAT, so I know the light and wiring are good. How can a sensor as important as the O2 sensor NOT trigger the light? Unfortunately, I was low on time and I didn't try to pull a code last night. Does anyone have an idea why the O2 failure would not trigger the MIL? Insurance runs out Thursday, so I'm getting desperate to find out why it's not running right! To date, I've swapped the ecm, TB, and all sensors except CTS (swapping it tonight) with little effect. Thanks folks, Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From carl-otto at usa.net Tue Feb 6 14:06:33 2007 From: carl-otto at usa.net (CARL-OTTO RUSTAD) Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 21:06:33 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems Message-ID: <838LBFuFh5356S18.1170792393@uwdvg018.cms.usa.net> Duncan! Be aware when testing the O2 sensor with the multimeter, so you do not by accident measure the resistance. Take only voltage readings. According to some documentation on this, an O2 sensor can possibly not like to be treated that way. I guess you already know that, but anyway.... Regards. Carl. Duncan- Any vehicle takes a while to trip the MIL light with a dead O2 sensor. It may even take a few days. Here's some help: I have seen Hondas with too tight of a valve adjustment flunk the IM test due to a lower than normal intake vacuum. You may want to check the valve adjustment. Andrew --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. From davida1 at hiwaay.net Tue Feb 6 19:26:36 2007 From: davida1 at hiwaay.net (David Allen) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 19:26:36 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems References: <20070206170521.42097.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B9558@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca> Message-ID: <05a201c74a57$0504a870$34cea5a6@yancey.com> Mosty ECM's require the engine to be run for several minutes under load before setting a bad O2 sensor circuit code. It wants to make sure the exhaust is hot enough to operate the sensor before condemning the sensor. A cold sensor and an unplugged sensor look the same to the ECM. My car will not flag an unplugged O2 until it has been driven for 4 or 5 miles. The temp, MAP and TPS sensors have a set, finite range of resistance or voltage values that are acceptable. Anything outside of this range will log a code. These sensors do not depend on the heat of the exhaust therefore any off-scale reading for any amount of time is cause for a code. There are other codes for bad signals which have a time factor or are dependant on other sensor readings but the basic "circuit fault" codes are instant for everything except the O2. Hope this helps!! David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ford, Pat" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems > I don't know why it doesn't trip the light either, for me the indicator > was the heater wires melted. Mine died from water immersion when hot and > I think the heater came apart and did bad stuff before shorting to > ground. > > Pat > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of Cowen > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:05 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] Still Tracker TBI Problems > > Hello folks,in trying to correct high CO and low mileage from my wife's > 1992 Tracker, I've encountered something I didn't expect. Yesterday, > while trying to test the O2 sensor with a multimeter (indeciferable > readings, will try again tonight), I was running the can with the O2 > disconnected. It did not trigger the MIL! > > Now, the MIL functioned when I disconnected the IAT, so I know the light > and wiring are good. How can a sensor as important as the O2 sensor NOT > trigger the light? > > Unfortunately, I was low on time and I didn't try to pull a code last > night. Does anyone have an idea why the O2 failure would not trigger > the MIL? > > Insurance runs out Thursday, so I'm getting desperate to find out why > it's not running right! To date, I've swapped the ecm, TB, and all > sensors except CTS (swapping it tonight) with little effect. > > Thanks folks, > Duncan > > **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____________ > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Wed Feb 7 10:04:45 2007 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:04:45 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Looking for Hack of MAF sensor read routine in P4 ECM Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of dozierhc at aol.com > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:01 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] Looking for Hack of MAF sensor read routine in P4 ECM > > Does anyone out there have a section of disassembled P4 code > for reading the MAF sensor on a frequency based ECM such as > the Buick 1227148 $31T code or such. > Want to see if I can graft a modification of it into $8D and > $58 code to read a Flex-Fuel sensor... > > Thanks, Hank Hank, there's a link to a 165 disassembly on the gmecm page, done by Ward Spoonmore, I believe. Go to the gmecm page, then papers, then the links ECMguys page. Maybe that'll help? --steve From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Wed Feb 7 10:15:16 2007 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:15:16 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] thanks! Message-ID: I think I sent a thank-you to everyone who donated, although a couple bounced back because of full mailboxes. If you didn't get a note from me please accept my apology, there were frankly so many that I may have missed some. More donations are always welcome, but -- the hosting bill should be taken care of for this year and next at least. Some expressed embarrassment at making small donations. The most common donation is around $5, and that's just the way I like it. Lots of people pitching in a little amount each, together adding up to a substantial amount. For those who are relatively new I should explain how the site works. It used to be hosted by volunteers, which always started out well inevitably ran into problems. After the big crash I decided to pay for hosting, but didn't want to foot the bill, and didn't want to hassle with advertising or otherwise trying to generate a profit from the site. So I decided to see how a user supported site would work and I'm happy to report that it works outstandingly well. I got a few offers to help out and I'll be following up on those in the near future. Anyway, give yourself a pat on the back and keep the good technical discussions coming! --steve ------------------- Steve Ravet ARM steve.ravet at arm.com From dozierhc at aol.com Wed Feb 7 13:27:52 2007 From: dozierhc at aol.com (dozierhc at aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 14:27:52 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Looking for Hack of MAF sensor read routine in P4 ECM Message-ID: <8C9190532034159-9C8-1C6E@FWM-M35.sysops.aol.com> Steve... That looks to be what I need. Now need to digest it to see how the Timer IC is accessed in the routine for counts, and to build my own transfer functions for deciphering the pulses. I want to also see if I can measure the pulse WIDTH, as the GM Flex-Fuel sensor puts out a 1 to 4 msec pulse as a function of temperature. Hank Message: 6 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 10:04:45 -0600 From: "Steve Ravet" Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Looking for Hack of MAF sensor read routine in P4 ECM To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"> -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of dozierhc at aol.com > Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:01 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] Looking for Hack of MAF sensor read routine in P4 ECM > > Does anyone out there have a section of disassembled P4 code > for reading the MAF sensor on a frequency based ECM such as > the Buick 1227148 $31T code or such. > Want to see if I can graft a modification of it into $8D and > $58 code to read a Flex-Fuel sensor... > > Thanks, Hank Hank, there's a link to a 165 disassembly on the gmecm page, done by Ward Spoonmore, I believe. Go to the gmecm page, then papers, then the links ECMguys page. Maybe that'll help? --steve ------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. From captain_krill at yahoo.com Thu Feb 8 14:18:15 2007 From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:18:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! Message-ID: <20070208201815.11366.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well! Thanks for all your advice folks, but we were all wrong! I got to be the Guinea pig trying out a brand new SnapOn Mobis scanner on Tuesday, and it confirmed the O2 sensor is showing about 4 crosscounts at 2500 RPM. At the same time, I rechecked the timing, shorting the check connector etc. It turns out it was somewhat advanced, so I retarded the timing to stock. The car ran worse than ever! Ah ha! Something I did had an effect! On the way home, I advanced the timing repeatedly until I was getting preignition under moderate load, then backed it off a bit. It now runs much better, appears to be getting good mileage again, and passed AirCare. In fact, the CO went from 14.3g/km to 10.4g/km. It still think I can just barely percieve a bit of an "unsmoothness" under accel, but maybe I'm paranoid. So, I rechecked the timing. It says it's about 26deg BTDC! Supposed to be around 8deg. I even tried a second timing gun! Apparently the timing mark no longer represents TDC. I can't imagine how that would be... As a final note, I have been playing with three of these cars (Mom's, sister's, wife's) over the last three months, and ALL THREE had dead gaskets in the TB, including chunks missing on two of them! So thanks for your help and suggestions! Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 8 14:56:58 2007 From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 12:56:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! Message-ID: <923226.84951.qm@web80513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So, did you compare the timing on the other 2 cars, is it comparable, or off also? ----- Original Message ---- From: Cowen To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 2:18:15 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! Well! Thanks for all your advice folks, but we were all wrong! I got to be the Guinea pig trying out a brand new SnapOn Mobis scanner on Tuesday, and it confirmed the O2 sensor is showing about 4 crosscounts at 2500 RPM. At the same time, I rechecked the timing, shorting the check connector etc. It turns out it was somewhat advanced, so I retarded the timing to stock. The car ran worse than ever! Ah ha! Something I did had an effect! On the way home, I advanced the timing repeatedly until I was getting preignition under moderate load, then backed it off a bit. It now runs much better, appears to be getting good mileage again, and passed AirCare. In fact, the CO went from 14.3g/km to 10.4g/km. It still think I can just barely percieve a bit of an "unsmoothness" under accel, but maybe I'm paranoid. So, I rechecked the timing. It says it's about 26deg BTDC! Supposed to be around 8deg. I even tried a second timing gun! Apparently the timing mark no longer represents TDC. I can't imagine how that would be... As a final note, I have been playing with three of these cars (Mom's, sister's, wife's) over the last three months, and ALL THREE had dead gaskets in the TB, including chunks missing on two of them! So thanks for your help and suggestions! Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Thu Feb 8 17:25:36 2007 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:25:36 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Cowen > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 2:18 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! > > Well! Thanks for all your advice folks, but we were all wrong! > > I got to be the Guinea pig trying out a brand new SnapOn > Mobis scanner on Tuesday, and it confirmed the > O2 sensor is showing about 4 crosscounts at 2500 RPM. > > At the same time, I rechecked the timing, shorting the check > connector etc. It turns out it was somewhat advanced, so I > retarded the timing to stock. The car ran worse than ever! > Ah ha! Something I did had an effect! > > On the way home, I advanced the timing repeatedly until I was > getting preignition under moderate load, then backed it off a > bit. It now runs much better, appears to be getting good > mileage again, and passed AirCare. In fact, the CO went from > 14.3g/km to 10.4g/km. It still think I can just barely > percieve a bit of an "unsmoothness" under accel, but maybe > I'm paranoid. > > So, I rechecked the timing. It says it's about 26deg BTDC! > Supposed to be around 8deg. I even tried a second timing > gun! Apparently the timing mark no longer represents TDC. I > can't imagine how that would be... Probably the timing gauge hasn't moved, but maybe the timing mark on the balancer has moved, if the rubber is worn out and the outer ring is moving relative to the hub. In that case the balancer probably needs to be replaced. If I can recap, it ran bad, then you cleaned up and replaced some gaskets and it ran better for a while, then ran bad again. If timing is indeed the problem then it has been changing over time as you've been working on it. The mark moving is one thing, but the actual timing changing is something else. I'm not familiar with that engine, can you describe how the ignition timing is done, where the pickups are, is it distributor or ??? I'm not sure the problem is completely solved yet so I'm still curious. --steve From Terminal_Crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Thu Feb 8 17:26:55 2007 From: Terminal_Crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk (Terminal Crazy) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:26:55 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! In-Reply-To: <923226.84951.qm@web80513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <923226.84951.qm@web80513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4eb22ad8d2Terminal_Crazy@sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk> On 08 Feb, Rick McLeod wrote: > So, I rechecked the timing. It says it's about 26deg BTDC! Supposed to > be around 8deg. I even tried a second timing gun! Apparently the > timing mark no longer represents TDC. I can't imagine how that would > be... I don't know TBI models but how are they timed ?. Are the hubs fixed with a key like Gen1 Chevy motors or just bolted on like the Gen2's appear to be? Could the hub have slipped or the rubber part between the hub/damper ? Thoughts anyone ! -- Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6 terminal_crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Lancashire England http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/ From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 8 18:07:40 2007 From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:07:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! Message-ID: <119821.80725.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> these questions are kinda my point, steve put it well: I'm not sure the problem is completely solved yet so I'm still curious. so, having one to compare would be a great start, and IIRC isn't the tracker a Suzuki in disguise in that vintage, for those not knowing the engine well? If it's a dizzy based, and the timing pickup were off a crank sensor somehow, that would wreak havoc to no end if the sensor is reading flux off the damper and it slipped. not only timing but relation to rotor position would be affected also, but sounds like if you can adjust timing it is a dizzy pickup, so unless something is wierd in the dizzy then possibly the indicators are broken and functionally if you add the proper offset for the bad timing indicator that explains it. Bottom line, if it's a mechanical issue in the timing reference to the ignition and broken, then the problem will return and probably sooner than you desire. good luck, interesting thread, and appreciate hte continued feedback! ----- Original Message ---- From: Terminal Crazy To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 5:26:55 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! On 08 Feb, Rick McLeod wrote: > So, I rechecked the timing. It says it's about 26deg BTDC! Supposed to > be around 8deg. I even tried a second timing gun! Apparently the > timing mark no longer represents TDC. I can't imagine how that would > be... I don't know TBI models but how are they timed ?. Are the hubs fixed with a key like Gen1 Chevy motors or just bolted on like the Gen2's appear to be? Could the hub have slipped or the rubber part between the hub/damper ? Thoughts anyone ! -- Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6 terminal_crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Lancashire England http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/ From lwester at lincsat.com Thu Feb 8 19:26:07 2007 From: lwester at lincsat.com (Programmer) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 18:26:07 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! References: <20070208201815.11366.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201c74be9$4cf92cd0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> Hmmm....have you checked the cam/crank synch (belt). That'd almost compute to a tooth -- and it'll still run. Sorry I missed out on the 'donating' drama, Steve...just got back from the Yucatan and the chicken pizza pyramids...Do we prepay things to keep the i-net guys happy for a few more years ? Lyndon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cowen" To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:18 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! > Well! Thanks for all your advice folks, but we were > all wrong! > > I got to be the Guinea pig trying out a brand new > SnapOn Mobis scanner on Tuesday, and it confirmed the > O2 sensor is showing about 4 crosscounts at 2500 RPM. > > At the same time, I rechecked the timing, shorting the > check connector etc. It turns out it was somewhat > advanced, so I retarded the timing to stock. The car > ran worse than ever! Ah ha! Something I did had an > effect! > > On the way home, I advanced the timing repeatedly > until I was getting preignition under moderate load, > then backed it off a bit. It now runs much better, > appears to be getting good mileage again, and passed > AirCare. In fact, the CO went from 14.3g/km to > 10.4g/km. It still think I can just barely percieve a > bit of an "unsmoothness" under accel, but maybe I'm > paranoid. > > So, I rechecked the timing. It says it's about 26deg > BTDC! Supposed to be around 8deg. I even tried a > second timing gun! Apparently the timing mark no > longer represents TDC. I can't imagine how that would > be... > > As a final note, I have been playing with three of > these cars (Mom's, sister's, wife's) over the last > three months, and ALL THREE had dead gaskets in the > TB, including chunks missing on two of them! > > So thanks for your help and suggestions! > > Duncan > > > **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091 > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca Fri Feb 9 08:28:53 2007 From: Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Ford, Pat) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:28:53 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! In-Reply-To: <119821.80725.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <119821.80725.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B9566@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca> Dizzy based, ecm controled, but they run well with just about any cam timing. Tracker, sidekick , pontiac sunrunner, asunna something, GM and szuki did a joint venture and were very promicous. Pat -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Rick McLeod Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 7:08 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! these questions are kinda my point, steve put it well: I'm not sure the problem is completely solved yet so I'm still curious. so, having one to compare would be a great start, and IIRC isn't the tracker a Suzuki in disguise in that vintage, for those not knowing the engine well? If it's a dizzy based, and the timing pickup were off a crank sensor somehow, that would wreak havoc to no end if the sensor is reading flux off the damper and it slipped. not only timing but relation to rotor position would be affected also, but sounds like if you can adjust timing it is a dizzy pickup, so unless something is wierd in the dizzy then possibly the indicators are broken and functionally if you add the proper offset for the bad timing indicator that explains it. Bottom line, if it's a mechanical issue in the timing reference to the ignition and broken, then the problem will return and probably sooner than you desire. good luck, interesting thread, and appreciate hte continued feedback! ----- Original Message ---- From: Terminal Crazy To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2007 5:26:55 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! On 08 Feb, Rick McLeod wrote: > So, I rechecked the timing. It says it's about 26deg BTDC! Supposed > to be around 8deg. I even tried a second timing gun! Apparently the > timing mark no longer represents TDC. I can't imagine how that would > be... I don't know TBI models but how are they timed ?. Are the hubs fixed with a key like Gen1 Chevy motors or just bolted on like the Gen2's appear to be? Could the hub have slipped or the rubber part between the hub/damper ? Thoughts anyone ! -- Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6 terminal_crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk Lancashire England http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/ _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From rwhughe at oplink.net Fri Feb 9 12:20:39 2007 From: rwhughe at oplink.net (Robert W Hughes) Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:20:39 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! In-Reply-To: <20070209180059.1F07028E90@mail.oplnk.net> References: <20070209180059.1F07028E90@mail.oplnk.net> Message-ID: <45CCBB77.3020702@oplink.net> Does the timing change when you speed up the engine? A possibility would be that whatever controls the timing is not working and you have been running with fixed timing. The extra static advance would compensate partially for this. -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering 29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen" rwhughe at oplink.net From captain_krill at yahoo.com Fri Feb 9 16:14:18 2007 From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:14:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problems Message-ID: <20070209221419.33208.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'll answer as many questions as I can from the posts: 1. Yes, has a dizzy, but no mechanical or vacuum advance. 2. Has a "cam Position Sensor" inside dizzy, no Crank Position Sensor. 3. I've swapped in another "known good" dizzy, no changes good or bad. 4. Has a timing belt, I changed it about 4 years ago. No other engine work of any kind done/needed. 5. Haven't checked cam timing, but would it really run as well as it does if it had jumped a tooth? I thought of this early on, but discarded the idea as unlikely. Maybe I should tear it apart and look! If I think it through though, that would not explain timing problem, because strobe would still flash around the correct TDC mark (because dizzy can be adjusted independantly of cam). 6. Yes Steve it did seem to run well after a pile of work, but it was for only a few days. Still, strange that the problem shows variability. 7. Crank pully is bolted to crank, 4 small bolts. Keyed too? Don't remember. 8. Even if harmonic balancer had shifted, there are no sensors there, so that cannot change timing - only position of timing mark. Therefore, could not have causes this problem, only made it more confusing to fix (as timing appears different than it is). Thanks again for the ideas, and now I'm really wondering about the cam jumping a tooth somehow!! Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 From turbotuneusltd at triad.rr.com Fri Feb 9 16:39:45 2007 From: turbotuneusltd at triad.rr.com (Mark Riley) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:39:45 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problems In-Reply-To: <20070209221419.33208.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000401c74c9b$33050f80$6401a8c0@marke4979cvtme> I would wonder if it has chewed out the keyway on the crank sprocket to allow the cam and timing to advance and retard. Have seen it happen on 1.5l Mitsubishi engines in Hyundai's. Like to drove me to drink till I saw the timing change with just a rev up of the engine. Then checked the cam timing and it was off where it had been correct earlier that day. Powered medal crank sprocket wasn't hard enough and would kinda go away. Mark -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Cowen Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 5:14 PM To: Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problems I'll answer as many questions as I can from the posts: 1. Yes, has a dizzy, but no mechanical or vacuum advance. 2. Has a "cam Position Sensor" inside dizzy, no Crank Position Sensor. 3. I've swapped in another "known good" dizzy, no changes good or bad. 4. Has a timing belt, I changed it about 4 years ago. No other engine work of any kind done/needed. 5. Haven't checked cam timing, but would it really run as well as it does if it had jumped a tooth? I thought of this early on, but discarded the idea as unlikely. Maybe I should tear it apart and look! If I think it through though, that would not explain timing problem, because strobe would still flash around the correct TDC mark (because dizzy can be adjusted independantly of cam). 6. Yes Steve it did seem to run well after a pile of work, but it was for only a few days. Still, strange that the problem shows variability. 7. Crank pully is bolted to crank, 4 small bolts. Keyed too? Don't remember. 8. Even if harmonic balancer had shifted, there are no sensors there, so that cannot change timing - only position of timing mark. Therefore, could not have causes this problem, only made it more confusing to fix (as timing appears different than it is). Thanks again for the ideas, and now I'm really wondering about the cam jumping a tooth somehow!! Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 9 18:50:10 2007 From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 16:50:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problems Message-ID: <486349.93256.qm@web80510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Are you sure the dizzy adjust separate of cam, I'd bet it's driven off the cam, not the crank, and therefore a delta of cam timing would cause a delta of crank<>spark timing in addition to a delta of crank<>valve timing food for thought, we're all trying to help (pronounced learn) so keep posting ----- Original Message ---- From: Cowen To: Gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Friday, February 9, 2007 4:14:18 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problems I'll answer as many questions as I can from the posts: 1. Yes, has a dizzy, but no mechanical or vacuum advance. 2. Has a "cam Position Sensor" inside dizzy, no Crank Position Sensor. 3. I've swapped in another "known good" dizzy, no changes good or bad. 4. Has a timing belt, I changed it about 4 years ago. No other engine work of any kind done/needed. 5. Haven't checked cam timing, but would it really run as well as it does if it had jumped a tooth? I thought of this early on, but discarded the idea as unlikely. Maybe I should tear it apart and look! If I think it through though, that would not explain timing problem, because strobe would still flash around the correct TDC mark (because dizzy can be adjusted independantly of cam). 6. Yes Steve it did seem to run well after a pile of work, but it was for only a few days. Still, strange that the problem shows variability. 7. Crank pully is bolted to crank, 4 small bolts. Keyed too? Don't remember. 8. Even if harmonic balancer had shifted, there are no sensors there, so that cannot change timing - only position of timing mark. Therefore, could not have causes this problem, only made it more confusing to fix (as timing appears different than it is). Thanks again for the ideas, and now I'm really wondering about the cam jumping a tooth somehow!! Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From Joel.Eck at hp.com Mon Feb 12 08:51:18 2007 From: Joel.Eck at hp.com (Eck, Joel (GCC ISS Engineer)) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:51:18 -0000 Subject: [Gmecm] RE: Tracker TBI problems In-Reply-To: <20070210182226.E50DD331BE@ccerelrim03.cce.hp.com> Message-ID: My personal experience with #5 - 90 civic with 1500 or 1600 engine - cam off 1 tooth either direction still ran pretty well. One direction, it became a bunch torquier (I know, not a real word) but had some ping problems; the other direction, it idled a little rough, but otherwise ran pretty good. It depends on how many teeth the cam gear has, as that will translate to how many degrees off the cam will be if it is off by one tooth. In regards to #8 - True enough, that would not have caused the timing to shift all on its own, but it would have caused the timing to be set incorrectly in the past, say, before the problem was known. If the outer ring of the balancer is shifting each and every time the engine is run, then you can never get an accurate reading, because it will always be off by some unknown value. May be worth your while to just tear into it and check it out. If nothing else, it can then be eliminated as a contributing factor. It's been while since the problem was first mentioned, but was the timing adjusted before the faulty TBI gaskets were discovered? Perhaps the timing was fine previously, and then adjusted to what appeared to be good. The problem didn't go away, bad gaskets were replaced, but then the incorrect timing lived on beyond the original cause of the problem?? Just a thought.. Thanks, Joel -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of gmecm-request at diy-efi.org Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 12:22 To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Gmecm Digest, Vol 24, Issue 10 I'll answer as many questions as I can from the posts: 1. Yes, has a dizzy, but no mechanical or vacuum advance. 2. Has a "cam Position Sensor" inside dizzy, no Crank Position Sensor. 3. I've swapped in another "known good" dizzy, no changes good or bad. 4. Has a timing belt, I changed it about 4 years ago. No other engine work of any kind done/needed. 5. Haven't checked cam timing, but would it really run as well as it does if it had jumped a tooth? I thought of this early on, but discarded the idea as unlikely. Maybe I should tear it apart and look! If I think it through though, that would not explain timing problem, because strobe would still flash around the correct TDC mark (because dizzy can be adjusted independantly of cam). 6. Yes Steve it did seem to run well after a pile of work, but it was for only a few days. Still, strange that the problem shows variability. 7. Crank pully is bolted to crank, 4 small bolts. Keyed too? Don't remember. 8. Even if harmonic balancer had shifted, there are no sensors there, so that cannot change timing - only position of timing mark. Therefore, could not have causes this problem, only made it more confusing to fix (as timing appears different than it is). Thanks again for the ideas, and now I'm really wondering about the cam jumping a tooth somehow!! Duncan From captain_krill at yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 17:11:41 2007 From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 15:11:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11 Message-ID: <20070212231141.82541.qmail@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > It's been while since the problem was first > mentioned, but was the > timing adjusted before the faulty TBI gaskets were > discovered? Perhaps > the timing was fine previously, and then adjusted to > what appeared to be > good. The problem didn't go away, bad gaskets were > replaced, but then > the incorrect timing lived on beyond the original > cause of the problem?? > Just a thought.. Joel, Thanks for the info about the Civic. Makes me think the belt is more and more likely to be a culprit. WHY it would have jumped a tooth, after 3.5 years of happy operation, would be the new mystery. Even if the timing belt has jumped though, the timing thing is another matter! Yes, the timing WAS adjusted before the gaskets. I replaced a weeping O-ring on the distributor adapter sometime last summer. That would have required retiming an otherwise fine engine. Unfortunately, I don't keep a logbook, and if the problem with driveability started exactly when I retimed it in the summer, I failed to notice! I know I have checked the timing a long time ago and it was fine, so whatever this problem is, it's definitely less than 6 years old (we've had the car that long). Tonight I will compare readings with another identical Tracker. I will also check both to see that the timing changes when the check connector is shorted, and when the RPMS increase. I'll post the results. Thanks everyone! Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________________ Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html From mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net Tue Feb 13 10:51:23 2007 From: mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net (Scott Pearson) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:51:23 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! References: <20070208201815.11366.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001201c74be9$4cf92cd0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> Message-ID: <004b01c74f8f$37350e10$6401a8c0@DELL3G> > Sorry I missed out on the 'donating' drama, Steve...just got back from the > Yucatan and the chicken pizza pyramids...Do we prepay things to keep the > i-net guys happy for a few more years ? > > Lyndon. Yucatan, huh? Nice place to be in the middle of the winter! Where'd ya go? We did Cancun in 03 and Playa del Carmen in 04. Nice time down there. Just got back from Panama City, FL last week, not as warm as Yucatan, but sure better than -15dF in Iowa! Scott Pearson The Auto Shop www.theautoshop.net Phone: 563.886.2821 Fax: 563.886.6127 From captain_krill at yahoo.com Tue Feb 13 18:24:51 2007 From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:24:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Ignition mystery Message-ID: <20070214002451.38086.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For anyone still guessing: I checked the timing of my mother's car yesterday, set the same way (by hand, no light, advance until it pinged under light throttle, then back it off until it stops.) It matched my wife's car. BOTH of them are reading about 20deg BTDC at idle, check connector shorted. (It should be about 8deg) The check connector does indeed influence timing, so that's working. Also, "blipping" the throttle results in a momentary spark retard (as it should when MAP increases), followed by spark advance (as it should when RPMs increase). Idle RPM is about 750, factory calls for 800. Sometime in the future I'll confirm the cam timing, and I'll mechanically check that the TDC mark actually lines up where it should, although I can't believe both cars would've suffered the same failure though (and to the same degree). I give up. Two different people checking, two different guns, two different cars, and ignition seems to function flawlessly on both of them - except for irrationally high amount of advance! The car still has a very minor driveability issue, so I still think there's a problem outside of my technique. Thanks for all your advice folks, this has changed from what I thought was an EFI problem to an unsolved mystery. I appreciate the patience and help from those on the list who tune in purely for injection and programming discussion. There used to be (still is?) a radio program on NPR called "Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers" hosted by Tom and Ray Mariozzi (sp?). The premise was that people called in to have their car problems diagnosed. At about this point in a difficult diagnosis, one of the "brothers" would ask the car owner "What colour is the car?" Whatever the response, a learned "Ah ha!" (and a flurry of chuckles) would burst forth, as though that explained everything! So, in case you're wondering, it's blue. They both are. Duncan **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ From lwester at lincsat.com Tue Feb 13 18:40:07 2007 From: lwester at lincsat.com (Programmer) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:40:07 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! References: <20070208201815.11366.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001201c74be9$4cf92cd0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> <004b01c74f8f$37350e10$6401a8c0@DELL3G> Message-ID: <001e01c74fd0$c112b8d0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> We were closer to Playa Del Carmen (about 5-6 minutes), 45 minutes if you walk the beach...makes for a nice walk. Santos Caracol was the resort--huge place, over 2000 guests...don't know if I'd got back though. Internet is pretty critical now for what we do, and I really need to have access. (Imagine two computers and a couple thousand people ?) How was your holiday ? Yes--it had to beat -15 !! Lyndon. www.ecmprogrammer.com Westers Garage 218 Centre Street Tilley, Alberta T0J 3K0 1-888-937-8371 403-377-CARS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Pearson" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! >> Sorry I missed out on the 'donating' drama, Steve...just got back from >> the Yucatan and the chicken pizza pyramids...Do we prepay things to keep >> the i-net guys happy for a few more years ? >> >> Lyndon. > > Yucatan, huh? Nice place to be in the middle of the winter! Where'd ya go? > > We did Cancun in 03 and Playa del Carmen in 04. Nice time down there. Just > got back from Panama City, FL last week, not as warm as Yucatan, but sure > better than -15dF in Iowa! > > Scott Pearson > The Auto Shop > www.theautoshop.net > Phone: 563.886.2821 > Fax: 563.886.6127 > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From lwester at lincsat.com Tue Feb 13 18:40:35 2007 From: lwester at lincsat.com (Programmer) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 17:40:35 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Ignition mystery References: <20070214002451.38086.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c74fd0$d792ea30$0200a8c0@WESTER2> Kinda figured it was blue... Lyndon ; ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cowen" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:24 PM Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Ignition mystery > For anyone still guessing: > > I checked the timing of my mother's car yesterday, set > the same way (by hand, no light, advance until it > pinged under light throttle, then back it off until it > stops.) It matched my wife's car. BOTH of them are > reading about 20deg BTDC at idle, check connector > shorted. (It should be about 8deg) > > The check connector does indeed influence timing, so > that's working. Also, "blipping" the throttle results > in a momentary spark retard (as it should when MAP > increases), followed by spark advance (as it should > when RPMs increase). > > Idle RPM is about 750, factory calls for 800. > > Sometime in the future I'll confirm the cam timing, > and I'll mechanically check that the TDC mark actually > lines up where it should, although I can't believe > both cars would've suffered the same failure though > (and to the same degree). > > I give up. Two different people checking, two > different guns, two different cars, and ignition seems > to function flawlessly on both of them - except for > irrationally high amount of advance! The car still > has a very minor driveability issue, so I still think > there's a problem outside of my technique. > > Thanks for all your advice folks, this has changed > from what I thought was an EFI problem to an unsolved > mystery. I appreciate the patience and help from > those on the list who tune in purely for injection and > programming discussion. > > There used to be (still is?) a radio program on NPR > called "Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers" hosted > by Tom and Ray Mariozzi (sp?). The premise was that > people called in to have their car problems diagnosed. > At about this point in a difficult diagnosis, one of > the "brothers" would ask the car owner "What colour is > the car?" Whatever the response, a learned "Ah ha!" > (and a flurry of chuckles) would burst forth, as > though that explained everything! > > So, in case you're wondering, it's blue. They both > are. > > Duncan > > **********************END TRANSMISSION********************** > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss an email again! > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From burntkat at sc.rr.com Tue Feb 13 20:14:11 2007 From: burntkat at sc.rr.com (burntkat) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:14:11 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! In-Reply-To: <001e01c74fd0$c112b8d0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> References: <20070208201815.11366.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001201c74be9$4cf92cd0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> <004b01c74f8f$37350e10$6401a8c0@DELL3G> <001e01c74fd0$c112b8d0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> Message-ID: <45D27073.3030007@sc.rr.com> if you guys are going to claim this is offlist, how about take it OFF the darned list. Programmer wrote: > We were closer to Playa Del Carmen (about 5-6 minutes), 45 minutes if > you walk the beach...makes for a nice walk. > Santos Caracol was the resort--huge place, over 2000 guests...don't > know if I'd got back though. Internet is pretty critical now for what > we do, and I really need to have access. (Imagine two computers and a > couple thousand people ?) > > How was your holiday ? Yes--it had to beat -15 !! > > Lyndon. > www.ecmprogrammer.com > Westers Garage > 218 Centre Street > Tilley, Alberta T0J 3K0 > 1-888-937-8371 > 403-377-CARS > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Pearson" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:51 AM > Subject: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! > > >>> Sorry I missed out on the 'donating' drama, Steve...just got back >>> from the Yucatan and the chicken pizza pyramids...Do we prepay >>> things to keep the i-net guys happy for a few more years ? >>> >>> Lyndon. >> >> Yucatan, huh? Nice place to be in the middle of the winter! Where'd >> ya go? >> >> We did Cancun in 03 and Playa del Carmen in 04. Nice time down there. >> Just got back from Panama City, FL last week, not as warm as Yucatan, >> but sure better than -15dF in Iowa! >> >> Scott Pearson >> The Auto Shop >> www.theautoshop.net >> Phone: 563.886.2821 >> Fax: 563.886.6127 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From lwester at lincsat.com Wed Feb 14 09:26:07 2007 From: lwester at lincsat.com (Programmer) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:26:07 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! References: <20070208201815.11366.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001201c74be9$4cf92cd0$0200a8c0@WESTER2><004b01c74f8f$37350e10$6401a8c0@DELL3G><001e01c74fd0$c112b8d0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> <45D27073.3030007@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <003a01c7504c$7e7a9d90$0200a8c0@WESTER2> Look what you started Scott... Sorry, smokinfeline...didn't notice the incorrect header. Lyndon ----- Original Message ----- From: "burntkat" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! From andrewsharyn at yahoo.com Thu Feb 15 18:22:53 2007 From: andrewsharyn at yahoo.com (Andrew Gibson) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 16:22:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Ignition mystery Message-ID: <170682.16703.qm@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> Here's a thought: Since ignition timing is in reference to the crankshaft position it cannot be the timing belt being off a tooth (or two). Here's another thought: I have seen many harmonic dampners with the rubber ring on them spin the outer ring thereby giving a false timing reading. It may be worth checking the indexing of the dampner. You can do this by pulling the #1 spark plug out, dropping a long screwdriver down the hole (I said LONG mind you) and rotate the engine by hand (ONLY BY HAND!!!!!) until the cylinder tops out as evidenced by the screwdriver movement. This should give you a pretty good indication as to where the timing mark is. Here's a scary thought: If the harmonic dampner bolt was left loose the crank gear can roll the woodruff key over and wipe out the crank. I really hope you don't have this problem. But it's possible. --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. From efi at dyakron.com Thu Feb 15 20:13:19 2007 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 21:13:19 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] in need of Engine diagram help References: <170682.16703.qm@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000d01c75170$0716a4e0$6501a8c0@IBMm> Hi all, The parts store closed 5 minutes ago, and I just pulled a mystery hose off of the 3400 engine in my wife's 2001 Chevy Venture Van. One end connect near the MAF sensor in the rubber intake boot. The engine is up under a cowl, and of couse this plastic hose connects on the rearward side somewhere. I've been trying the brail method with no luck. Too tight to even get a small mirror back in there. I really need a drawing or a diagram of the top side of the 3400 60* V6. One end of the hose connects to the flexible rubber boot that connects to the MAF and air filter box. I think the other end connects to crankcase air somewhere, but I can't see back there to connect it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA MV From galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 15 21:45:42 2007 From: galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net (Jason M.) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 22:45:42 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] in need of Engine diagram help References: <170682.16703.qm@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> <000d01c75170$0716a4e0$6501a8c0@IBMm> Message-ID: <001d01c7517c$f06d54c0$6a01a8c0@BILLYBOB> Not familiar with that application, if it's something like a 3/8'' hose It probably runs down to the rocker arm cover and some sort of a gromet, or the pcv valve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike V" To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:13 PM Subject: [Gmecm] in need of Engine diagram help > Hi all, > The parts store closed 5 minutes ago, and I just pulled a mystery hose off > of the 3400 engine in my wife's 2001 Chevy Venture Van. > One end connect near the MAF sensor in the rubber intake boot. > The engine is up under a cowl, and of couse this > plastic hose connects on the rearward side somewhere. I've been trying > the brail method > with no luck. Too tight to even get a small > mirror back in there. I really need a drawing > or a diagram of the top side of the 3400 60* V6. One end of the hose > connects to the flexible rubber boot that connects to the MAF and air > filter box. I think the other end > connects to crankcase air somewhere, but I can't see back there to connect > it. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > TIA MV > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From efi at dyakron.com Thu Feb 15 22:26:37 2007 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:26:37 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] in need of Engine diagram help References: <170682.16703.qm@web60814.mail.yahoo.com><000d01c75170$0716a4e0$6501a8c0@IBMm> <001d01c7517c$f06d54c0$6a01a8c0@BILLYBOB> Message-ID: <001501c75182$a652efc0$6501a8c0@IBMm> Thanks for the reply Jason. It _did_ go to the valve cover. It was tough to reach. I got it after removing some other parts and using imaginative words. mv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason M." To: Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] in need of Engine diagram help > Not familiar with that application, if it's something like a 3/8'' hose It > probably runs down to the rocker arm cover and some sort of a gromet, or > the pcv valve. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike V" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:13 PM > Subject: [Gmecm] in need of Engine diagram help > > >> Hi all, >> The parts store closed 5 minutes ago, and I just pulled a mystery hose >> off of the 3400 engine in my wife's 2001 Chevy Venture Van. >> One end connect near the MAF sensor in the rubber intake boot. >> The engine is up under a cowl, and of couse this >> plastic hose connects on the rearward side somewhere. I've been trying >> the brail method >> with no luck. Too tight to even get a small >> mirror back in there. I really need a drawing >> or a diagram of the top side of the 3400 60* V6. One end of the hose >> connects to the flexible rubber boot that connects to the MAF and air >> filter box. I think the other end >> connects to crankcase air somewhere, but I can't see back there to >> connect it. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> TIA MV >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net Sat Feb 17 10:21:42 2007 From: mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net (Scott Pearson) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:21:42 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! References: <20070208201815.11366.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001201c74be9$4cf92cd0$0200a8c0@WESTER2><004b01c74f8f$37350e10$6401a8c0@DELL3G><001e01c74fd0$c112b8d0$0200a8c0@WESTER2> <45D27073.3030007@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <023901c752af$b5c4b370$6401a8c0@DELL3G> Sorry 'bout that! Gotta remember to change the address... Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "burntkat" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] OFFLIST: Re: [G m ecm] Tracker TBI Problems overcome! > if you guys are going to claim this is offlist, how about take it OFF the > darned list. From leroy at sunflower.com Wed Feb 21 11:07:10 2007 From: leroy at sunflower.com (Jim Sloan) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:07:10 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] 88999196 ECM Message-ID: <001201c755da$b9faa070$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Is anyone familiar with the 88999196 ecm? Is it a newer part number for a 7730? Thanks. Jim From efi at dyakron.com Thu Feb 22 08:12:14 2007 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:12:14 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 88999196 ECM References: <001201c755da$b9faa070$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Message-ID: <005701c7568b$73d106f0$6501a8c0@IBMm> Howday Jim, Without a year and model vehicle, I don't have a way of looking up your ECM. But, my paper books show the only numbers superceeding the 7730 are: 16196344 16198262 The list of cars for that ECM is long. HTH mv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sloan" To: "Gmecm at Diy-Efi. Org" Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:07 PM Subject: [Gmecm] 88999196 ECM > Is anyone familiar with the 88999196 ecm? Is it a newer part number for a > 7730? > > Thanks. > Jim > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From leroy at sunflower.com Thu Feb 22 09:26:54 2007 From: leroy at sunflower.com (Jim Sloan) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:26:54 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] 88999196 ECM In-Reply-To: <005701c7568b$73d106f0$6501a8c0@IBMm> References: <001201c755da$b9faa070$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> <005701c7568b$73d106f0$6501a8c0@IBMm> Message-ID: <000501c75695$e260a990$6401a8c0@james0uw35t2hd> Mike, It's a 66 Nova junkyard hybrid. I believe the engine is a 5.7L from a ~91 Camaro. An acquaintance built it, and is looking for some tuning help. I'll take a closer look in a couple of weeks. It looks like the 88999196 is an AC Delco number for the 7730. Thanks. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mike V > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:12 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 88999196 ECM > > Howday Jim, > Without a year and model vehicle, I don't have a way of > looking up your ECM. > But, my paper books show the only numbers superceeding the 7730 are: > > 16196344 > 16198262 > > The list of cars for that ECM is long. > HTH > mv > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Sloan" > To: "Gmecm at Diy-Efi. Org" > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:07 PM > Subject: [Gmecm] 88999196 ECM > > > > Is anyone familiar with the 88999196 ecm? Is it a newer > part number for a > > 7730? > > > > Thanks. > > Jim > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gmecm mailing list > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > From b.shaw at comcast.net Mon Feb 26 17:28:20 2007 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:28:20 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 749 Shift light output Message-ID: <45E36D14.5000609@comcast.net> I've just obtained a 32 valve 5.0L engine for my 928. This should give me about 90 hp more than my 16V 4.7L before I add the forced induction. One issue I have to address with the 32V is the flappy valve in the intake. This is an intake resonance device that is normally triggered to open at about 4000 rpm by the Bosch LH ecu. I'm thinking about controlling it with the shift light output on my '749, but it needs to be modified a bit so that it triggers just on RPM, not engine load or anything else. Has anyone modified the shift light output on a '749 to be just an RPM trigger? TIA, Bill 928s 4.7L 5 sp. Vortech/749 (soon to be 5.0L 32V!) From efi at dyakron.com Mon Feb 26 22:31:09 2007 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:31:09 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 749 Shift light output References: <45E36D14.5000609@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000401c75a28$1af6ebd0$6501a8c0@IBMm> Hi Bill. If that doesn't work out, let me tempt you with an RPM activated switch. The basic MSD 8950 is the simpler of their offerings. All appear to be under $100us. Here is the PDF manual for it. http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/FRM23778-PN%208950.pdf Here's the jegs page listing it. http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product2_10001_10002_747866_-1 Thanks for the web pages of your adventures. MV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Shaw" To: Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:28 PM Subject: [Gmecm] 749 Shift light output > I've just obtained a 32 valve 5.0L engine for my 928. This should give me > about 90 hp more than my 16V 4.7L before I add the forced induction. One > issue I have to address with the 32V is the flappy valve in the intake. > This is an intake resonance device that is normally triggered to open at > about 4000 rpm by the Bosch LH ecu. > > I'm thinking about controlling it with the shift light output on my '749, > but it needs to be modified a bit so that it triggers just on RPM, not > engine load or anything else. Has anyone modified the shift light output > on a '749 to be just an RPM trigger? > > TIA, > > Bill > 928s 4.7L 5 sp. Vortech/749 (soon to be 5.0L 32V!) > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From davesnothereman at netscape.net Wed Feb 28 19:05:32 2007 From: davesnothereman at netscape.net (davesnothereman at netscape.net) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:05:32 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] 749 Shift light output In-Reply-To: <45E36D14.5000609@comcast.net> References: <45E36D14.5000609@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8C929B4D86045B9-928-2A34@FWM-M41.sysops.aol.com> Bill, I think the easiest way is to look for the location in code which uses the variable 0x013E KRPMAX RPM Over Which Shift Light is Always On If you can reverse the logic of this short section of code, you could create a variable equal to "rpm below which shift light always off." and use the two for control of the intake tuning valve. Maybe I'll post more if I have time. Zaphod -----Original Message----- From: b.shaw at comcast.net To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 6:28 PM Subject: [Gmecm] 749 Shift light output I've just obtained a 32 valve 5.0L engine for my 928. This should give me about 90 hp more than my 16V 4.7L before I add the forced induction. One issue I have to address with the 32V is the flappy valve in the intake. This is an intake resonance device that is normally triggered to open at about 4000 rpm by the Bosch LH ecu. I'm thinking about controlling it with the shift light output on my '749, but it needs to be modified a bit so that it triggers just on RPM, not engine load or anything else. Has anyone modified the shift light output on a '749 to be just an RPM trigger? TIA, Bill 928s 4.7L 5 sp. Vortech/749 (soon to be 5.0L 32V!) _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.