From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net  Tue Jan  2 21:07:23 2007
From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:07:23 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
Message-ID: <459B1DEB.30209@highspeedlink.net>

I have been told that at high RPM many port injection programs fire the 
injectors multiple times per revolution. How compatible would this be 
with throttle body injection hardware? IE, could a '7730 + $8D combo run 
TBI, as long as it used an impedance convertor so that the HiZ drivers 
could handle the LoZ injectors?


Will


From romans at starstream.net  Tue Jan  2 21:14:09 2007
From: romans at starstream.net (Mark Romans)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 19:14:09 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] test, please read
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830180FCAC@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <000601c72ee5$3c5aa370$6801a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>

Got it!  Web site is still up too!
Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Ravet" <Steve.Ravet at arm.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>; <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>; <efi332 at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] test, please read


It seems that the guy that hosts diy-efi.org let the domain expire and
someone else has taken it.  Not sure what the implications are but I
think the lists should still be working.  If you don't get this email,
then that means they aren't working.

--steve

-------------------
Steve Ravet
ARM
steve.ravet at arm.com
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Gmecm at diy-efi.org
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From jonnbell at gmail.com  Mon Jan  1 23:15:15 2007
From: jonnbell at gmail.com (jb)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 22:15:15 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] New paper on 1227749 and 1227727/30 ECMs on GM-ECM Twiki
	site
In-Reply-To: <c22.d66254a.32c493d4@aol.com>
References: <c22.d66254a.32c493d4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <40407c390701012115y3ada3554oe4440b8748e3855e@mail.gmail.com>

am i the only one having trouble with those links?

On 12/27/06, DOZIERHC at aol.com <DOZIERHC at aol.com> wrote:
> I have posted a paper on the 1227749 WWW page.
>
> To get there, navigate to this link:
> _http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/1227749_
> (http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/1227749)
>
> I think this could be of interest to several  people on the mailing list, as
> it shows a coupling association between the  1227730 series and the 1227749
> series ECMs that goes deeper than previously  thought, and opens up some
> additional possibilities for both ECMs.
>
> Hank  Dozier
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jan  2 21:27:00 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:27:00 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] test, please read
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830180FE72@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

Y'all weren't paying enough attention over the holidays...  It expired,
and if you tried diy-efi.org over the last couple days you were treated
to a lovely picture of spring flowers and links to adjustable beds,
kitchen wares, and other nice things.  Looks like the mail queued up and
was delivered, though, so hopefully all is well.

--steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mark Romans
> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:14 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] test, please read
> 
> Got it!  Web site is still up too!
> Mark
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Ravet" <Steve.Ravet at arm.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>; <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>; <efi332 at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:20 PM
> Subject: [Gmecm] test, please read
> 
> 
> It seems that the guy that hosts diy-efi.org let the domain expire and
> someone else has taken it.  Not sure what the implications are but I
> think the lists should still be working.  If you don't get this email,
> then that means they aren't working.
> 
> --steve
> 
> -------------------
> Steve Ravet
> ARM
> steve.ravet at arm.com
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 


From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jan  2 21:28:08 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:28:08 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] New paper on 1227749 and 1227727/30 ECMs on GM-ECM
	Twikisite
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830180FE73@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

They're working now, but if you tried them in the last couple days you
probably couldn't get them.

--steve 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of jb
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 11:15 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] New paper on 1227749 and 1227727/30 ECMs 
> on GM-ECM Twikisite
> 
> am i the only one having trouble with those links?
> 
> On 12/27/06, DOZIERHC at aol.com <DOZIERHC at aol.com> wrote:
> > I have posted a paper on the 1227749 WWW page.
> >
> > To get there, navigate to this link:
> > _http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/1227749_
> > (http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/1227749)
> >
> > I think this could be of interest to several  people on the mailing 
> > list, as it shows a coupling association between the  
> 1227730 series 
> > and the 1227749 series ECMs that goes deeper than 
> previously  thought, 
> > and opens up some additional possibilities for both ECMs.
> >


From red83brick at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  2 22:04:21 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:04:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
In-Reply-To: <459B1DEB.30209@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <392685.78176.qm@web61014.mail.yahoo.com>

You won't have enough fuel under load with the PFI scheme running TBI.

William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net> wrote:  I have been told that at high RPM many port injection programs fire the 
injectors multiple times per revolution. How compatible would this be 
with throttle body injection hardware? IE, could a '7730 + $8D combo run 
TBI, as long as it used an impedance convertor so that the HiZ drivers 
could handle the LoZ injectors?


Will
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From craig.moates at cox.net  Tue Jan  2 23:30:30 2007
From: craig.moates at cox.net (Craig Moates)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 23:30:30 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Schematic drawing program
References: <45980389.4000203@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <004d01c72ef8$488aede0$b800a8c0@antec>

Hi Will,

Might want to look at Cadsoft Eagle www.cadsoft.de I think. It's free up to a certain size, I forget the limitations. Many of the 
schematic features are very nice, although I haven't used many.

Best regards,
Craig Moates


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Lucke" <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] Schematic drawing program


> What would be a good (preferably free) program to draw schematics/circuit diagrams (not necessarily plan a board layout)?
>
> Thx
>
>
> Will
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jan  2 23:50:18 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 23:50:18 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Schematic drawing program
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830180FE80@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

I've tried a few schematic capture programs and my feeling is that for
some reason, people who write schematic capture think they're GUI design
geniuses also.  I think you have to go out of your way to break GUI
conventions in windows, with the API calls all wrapped up in class
libraries and stuff, but somehow they manage to do it.

Eagle is OK, I used it for the USB-VPW project I'm working on.  I plan
on trying winqcad (www.winqcad.com) also. I would have used it for rev2
of the USB-VPW board but it doesn't import Eagle and I didn't feel like
redoing the whole thing.

--steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of William Lucke
> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Gmecm] Schematic drawing program
> 
> What would be a good (preferably free) program to draw 
> schematics/circuit diagrams (not necessarily plan a board layout)?

I've tried a few schematic capture programs and my feeling is that for
some reason, people who write schematic capture think they're GUI design
geniuses also.  I think you have to go out of your way to break GUI
conventions in windows, with the API calls all wrapped up in class
libraries and stuff, but somehow they manage to do it.

Eagle is OK, I used it for the USB-VPW project I'm working on.  I plan
on trying winqcad (www.winqcad.com) also. I would have used it for rev2
of the USB-VPW board but it doesn't import Eagle and I didn't feel like
redoing the whole thing. 


From davida1 at hiwaay.net  Wed Jan  3 07:46:08 2007
From: davida1 at hiwaay.net (David Allen)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:46:08 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: MSD or Delco DIS
References: <45980222.5060903@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <014101c72f3d$b0426400$0700a8c0@yancey.com>

That's my general idea!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Lucke" <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 12:32 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: MSD or Delco DIS


> So you plan to build a controller external to the ECM that would handle 
> the feedback loop to control the VVT actuator so that all the ECM would 
> have to do is output a signal describing where it wanted the cam phasing 
> held and wouldn't have to control the feedback loop itself. Interesting.
>
>
>
> Will
>
>
>> From: "David Allen" <davida1 at hiwaay.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 22, Issue 32
>>
>>   I had planned to fully utilize the VVT - will be another challenge I 
>> look forward to learning from.
>>   Haven't taken it to the track because there are no tracks here that I 
>> know of; and I'm not in the loop of people locally to make such an 
>> outing.  That day will come however.
>>   I'm using a Tech Edge 2B0 datalogger for this car.  Nothing high-tech; 
>> I have to review the data in Excel and adjust the tables manually.
>>   As for the VVT; I can build a controller which will look at cam 
>> reference and crank reference and hold the VVT at whatever position is 
>> commanded. This could take a duty-cycle signal from the ECM.  It could 
>> possible use the PWM output, and table in the BIN originally for EGR to 
>> allow an older ECM to work. Something to think about anyway.
>>   I'd rather not have an MSD system unless it is necessary.  It was 
>> necessary with the distributor but I bet DIS will be strong enough as-is.
>>   Thanks!
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - ---- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "William Lucke" <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net>
>> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 6:59 PM
>> Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 22, Issue 32
>>
>>
>>> That's a cool setup. Have you ever taken it to a drag strip and gotten 
>>> numbers?
>>> The 3900 and '06 3500 both have variable cam phasing. This necessitates 
>>> an advanced ECM. The latest engine that would be compatible with your 
>>> current (or any OBDI) ECM would be an '04-'05 3500. Stock 3400's have 
>>> made over 300 WHP turbocharged.
>>> MSD makes multi-channel boxes with adapters that mount between the DIS 
>>> module and the coils.
>>> Your page mentions an aftermarket datalogging system... what system is 
>>> that?
>>>
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: "David Allen" <davida1 at hiwaay.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: MSD or Delco DIS
>>>>
>>>>> BTW, im curious what type of vehicle this is in. Is is
>>>>> a s10 or camaro or an older front drive car ?
>>>>   It'a an older FWD car - a Buick Century.  Maybe this didn't go 
>>>> through. http://home.hiwaay.net/~davida1/superc.htm shows the car and 
>>>> it has a link to the engine setup.
>>>>   I'm not in this for looks or to be able to say "I have an MSD 
>>>> ignition" to the riceboys.  I just wanted something that works properly 
>>>> with my setup.  A stock 1-coil distributor did NOT work properly... The 
>>>> MSD was a very non-invasive drop-in solution that absolutely _fixed_ 
>>>> the problem.
>>>>   The MSD box works exceptionally well, but my next motor will be a 
>>>> newer one with factory DIS. (maybe even a 3900!)
>>>>   I know the GN guys have a standard DIS and boost 20 PSI with it and 
>>>> have plenty of ignition.
>>>>   Thanks,
>>>> David
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net  Wed Jan  3 10:49:55 2007
From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 11:49:55 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
Message-ID: <459BDEB3.1060000@highspeedlink.net>

Ok...
Why not?


Will


> From: Chris Reynolds <red83brick at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
> 
> You won't have enough fuel under load with the PFI scheme running TBI.
> 
> William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net> wrote:  I have been told that at high RPM many port injection programs fire the 
> injectors multiple times per revolution. How compatible would this be 
> with throttle body injection hardware? IE, could a '7730 + $8D combo run 
> TBI, as long as it used an impedance convertor so that the HiZ drivers 
> could handle the LoZ injectors?
> 
> 
> Will


From dvfagan at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 11:14:34 2007
From: dvfagan at yahoo.com (DV Fagan)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 09:14:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Schematic drawing program
In-Reply-To: <45980389.4000203@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070103171435.37300.qmail@web30311.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Will,
An outfit named Tango produced demo versions of
schematic capture, pcb layout and router programs. 
They allowed small designs to be saved.  The company
was in San Diego.  I still use the pcb and router
programs.
Dennis
--- William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net>
wrote:

> What would be a good (preferably free) program to
> draw 
> schematics/circuit diagrams (not necessarily plan a
> board layout)?
> 
> Thx
> 
> 
> Will
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe:
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 


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From red83brick at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 20:12:40 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:12:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
In-Reply-To: <459BDEB3.1060000@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <999157.29788.qm@web61015.mail.yahoo.com>

Not easily
   
  I could not see the reason for running a 7730 ECM with TBI.    The later model 1993-1996 TBI PCMs are much more advanced than the 1227747 like ECMs.  8192 Baud, transmission controls, PFI compatible, and can even be run with a MAF sensor controlling the fuel. 

William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net> wrote:
  Ok...
Why not?


Will


> From: Chris Reynolds 
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
> 
> You won't have enough fuel under load with the PFI scheme running TBI.
> 
> William Lucke wrote: I have been told that at high RPM many port injection programs fire the 
> injectors multiple times per revolution. How compatible would this be 
> with throttle body injection hardware? IE, could a '7730 + $8D combo run 
> TBI, as long as it used an impedance convertor so that the HiZ drivers 
> could handle the LoZ injectors?
> 
> 
> Will
_______________________________________________
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Gmecm at diy-efi.org
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From red83brick at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  3 20:12:39 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 18:12:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
In-Reply-To: <459BDEB3.1060000@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <7953.13992.qm@web61013.mail.yahoo.com>

Not easily
   
  I could not see the reason for running a 7730 ECM with TBI.    The later model 1993-1996 TBI PCMs are much more advanced than the 1227747 like ECMs.  8192 Baud, transmission controls, PFI compatible, and can even be run with a MAF sensor controlling the fuel. 

William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net> wrote:
  Ok...
Why not?


Will


> From: Chris Reynolds 
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
> 
> You won't have enough fuel under load with the PFI scheme running TBI.
> 
> William Lucke wrote: I have been told that at high RPM many port injection programs fire the 
> injectors multiple times per revolution. How compatible would this be 
> with throttle body injection hardware? IE, could a '7730 + $8D combo run 
> TBI, as long as it used an impedance convertor so that the HiZ drivers 
> could handle the LoZ injectors?
> 
> 
> Will
_______________________________________________
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Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
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From BNRVL at aol.com  Thu Jan  4 14:00:01 2007
From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 15:00:01 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] Schematic drawing program
Message-ID: <cfd.659781e.32ceb6c1@aol.com>



 Hello Craig Moates , can you email me to discuss a  method to TBI conversion 
for my 1933 Dodge ?
 Thank you


Bob Norville


From red83brick at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  4 18:48:08 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:48:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
In-Reply-To: <999157.29788.qm@web61015.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>

Because you are going to alot of trouble to re-invent the wheel so to speak.
   
  The TBI injectors are driven with Peak and Hold drivers, the 7730 lacks this style of driver.   The 165 MAF TPI ECM was however used with TBI in the 4 banger S10s.

Chris Reynolds <red83brick at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Not easily

I could not see the reason for running a 7730 ECM with TBI. The later model 1993-1996 TBI PCMs are much more advanced than the 1227747 like ECMs. 8192 Baud, transmission controls, PFI compatible, and can even be run with a MAF sensor controlling the fuel. 

William Lucke wrote:
Ok...
Why not?


Will


> From: Chris Reynolds 
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
> 
> You won't have enough fuel under load with the PFI scheme running TBI.
> 
> William Lucke wrote: I have been told that at high RPM many port injection programs fire the 
> injectors multiple times per revolution. How compatible would this be 
> with throttle body injection hardware? IE, could a '7730 + $8D combo run 
> TBI, as long as it used an impedance convertor so that the HiZ drivers 
> could handle the LoZ injectors?
> 
> 
> Will
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm


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From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net  Thu Jan  4 21:13:29 2007
From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 22:13:29 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
Message-ID: <459DC259.6010401@highspeedlink.net>

Ok...
Why not?


Will


> From: Chris Reynolds <red83brick at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
> 
> Not easily
>    
>   I could not see the reason for running a 7730 ECM with TBI.    The later model 1993-1996 TBI PCMs are much more advanced than the 1227747 like ECMs.  8192 Baud, transmission controls, PFI compatible, and can even be run with a MAF sensor controlling the fuel. 
> 
> William Lucke <william.lucke at highspeedlink.net> wrote:
>   Ok...
> Why not?
> 
> 
> Will
> 
> 
>> From: Chris Reynolds 
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
>>
>> You won't have enough fuel under load with the PFI scheme running TBI.
>>
>> William Lucke wrote: I have been told that at high RPM many port injection programs fire the 
>> injectors multiple times per revolution. How compatible would this be 
>> with throttle body injection hardware? IE, could a '7730 + $8D combo run 
>> TBI, as long as it used an impedance convertor so that the HiZ drivers 
>> could handle the LoZ injectors?
>>
>>
>> Will



From tsokorai at minimania.org  Fri Jan  5 05:19:51 2007
From: tsokorai at minimania.org (Tomas Sokorai)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 8:19:51 -0300
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
In-Reply-To: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ffae2e6298e5c35d594e82ba2b2bfe2c@minimania.org>




On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:48:08 -0800 (PST), Chris Reynolds <red83brick at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Because you are going to alot of trouble to re-invent the wheel so to
> speak.
> 
>   The TBI injectors are driven with Peak and Hold drivers, the 7730 lacks
> this style of driver.   The 165 MAF TPI ECM was however used with TBI in
> the 4 banger S10s.

'730 & '727  *can* drive just one injector in P&H mode. Take a look at the 2.0 TBI app.
So if its a small TBI with one injector, I can't see why a 730/727 can't be used there with no extra HW or hassles.

--
Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.




From aphelion79 at cox.net  Sun Jan  7 17:19:21 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:19:21 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45A17FF9.70007@cox.net>

Is this possible?  I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard with a 
carburetor that sucks.  About 300 bucks for a new one... so I was 
wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 350 and 
TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it will bolt on 
directly without any problems?


*I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a few 
FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the easiest 
looking like everything will bolt right on...)


From jay at vessels-clan.com  Sun Jan  7 17:37:08 2007
From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:37:08 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A17FF9.70007@cox.net>
References: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com> <45A17FF9.70007@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A18424.2000805@vessels-clan.com>

Hi there!

No need to swap heads.  There are several options for the TBI-specific 
intake:

1)  Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on the 
GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.

2)  Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck.  These are 
likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt valve 
cover heads which have a different angle on the four center intake bolts.

3)  Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck (i.e. F 
or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center boltholes.  I've 
done this but do not like it at all.  Getting the bolts drilled right 
isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit under the bolt heads to 
make sure there was enough surface for clamping.  Personally, I would 
not do this again.

4)  Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads.  Holley 300-49 
is a choice.

If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd do #1. 
   I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
Otherwise, I'd do #4.

For TPI, it's a similar issue.  1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to the 
heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt heads. 
These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Is this possible?  I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard with a 
> carburetor that sucks.  About 300 bucks for a new one... so I was 
> wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 350 and 
> TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it will bolt on 
> directly without any problems?
> 
> 
> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a few 
> FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the easiest 
> looking like everything will bolt right on...)



From dennysweet at charter.net  Sun Jan  7 20:39:59 2007
From: dennysweet at charter.net (Denny)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:39:59 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
References: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com> <45A17FF9.70007@cox.net>
	<45A18424.2000805@vessels-clan.com>
Message-ID: <000801c732ce$4ad1e570$2e02a8c0@dennyhuyir5nuj>

I think Jay is right! A bolt on adapter works the easiest and cheapest



From herningg at hotmail.com  Sun Jan  7 20:00:45 2007
From: herningg at hotmail.com (Garrett Herning)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 21:00:45 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <000801c732ce$4ad1e570$2e02a8c0@dennyhuyir5nuj>
Message-ID: <BAY122-F3F84DABEF382874CC909AD9BC0@phx.gbl>

Yea, I'd agree a bolt on is probably the easiest. I did this on my 78 to get 
my feet wet with EFI. Granted I used a MegaSquirt and made my own adapter...

http://www.herningg.com/projects/megasquirt/megasquirt.html

Don't forget you'll need to either put a fuel pump in the tank or make up a 
surge tank like I did.

Garrett



>From: "Denny" <dennysweet at charter.net>
>Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 18:39:59 -0800
>
>I think Jay is right! A bolt on adapter works the easiest and cheapest
>
>_______________________________________________
>Gmecm mailing list
>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm

_________________________________________________________________
Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live 
Messenger now. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview



From aphelion79 at cox.net  Sun Jan  7 21:57:31 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 21:57:31 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A18424.2000805@vessels-clan.com>
References: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com> <45A17FF9.70007@cox.net>
	<45A18424.2000805@vessels-clan.com>
Message-ID: <45A1C12B.30805@cox.net>

Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I can 
find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll probably 
go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 300 miles on 
it... so everything about it is currently in near pristine condition 
last time I checked... 

Jay Vessels wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> No need to swap heads.  There are several options for the TBI-specific 
> intake:
>
> 1)  Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on the 
> GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>
> 2)  Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck.  These are 
> likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt valve 
> cover heads which have a different angle on the four center intake bolts.
>
> 3)  Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck (i.e. 
> F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center boltholes.  
> I've done this but do not like it at all.  Getting the bolts drilled 
> right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit under the bolt 
> heads to make sure there was enough surface for clamping.  Personally, 
> I would not do this again.
>
> 4)  Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads.  Holley 
> 300-49 is a choice.
>
> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd do 
> #1.   I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>
> For TPI, it's a similar issue.  1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to the 
> heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt heads. 
> These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>
> Jay Vessels
> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>
> Aphelion79 wrote:
>> Is this possible?  I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>> with a carburetor that sucks.  About 300 bucks for a new one... so I 
>> was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 
>> 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it will 
>> bolt on directly without any problems?
>>
>>
>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a 
>> few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>> easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From aphelion79 at cox.net  Sun Jan  7 23:31:16 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 23:31:16 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A1C12B.30805@cox.net>
References: <14626.84196.qm@web61025.mail.yahoo.com>
	<45A17FF9.70007@cox.net>	<45A18424.2000805@vessels-clan.com>
	<45A1C12B.30805@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A1D724.70306@cox.net>

Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed truck, 
latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have pictures of 
the differences or is there some big obvious thing I could notice?

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I 
> can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll 
> probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 300 
> miles on it... so everything about it is currently in near pristine 
> condition last time I checked...
> Jay Vessels wrote:
>> Hi there!
>>
>> No need to swap heads.  There are several options for the 
>> TBI-specific intake:
>>
>> 1)  Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on the 
>> GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>
>> 2)  Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck.  These are 
>> likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt valve 
>> cover heads which have a different angle on the four center intake 
>> bolts.
>>
>> 3)  Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck 
>> (i.e. F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center 
>> boltholes.  I've done this but do not like it at all.  Getting the 
>> bolts drilled right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit 
>> under the bolt heads to make sure there was enough surface for 
>> clamping.  Personally, I would not do this again.
>>
>> 4)  Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads.  Holley 
>> 300-49 is a choice.
>>
>> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd do 
>> #1.   I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>
>> For TPI, it's a similar issue.  1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to the 
>> heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt heads. 
>> These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>
>> Jay Vessels
>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>
>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>> Is this possible?  I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>> with a carburetor that sucks.  About 300 bucks for a new one... so I 
>>> was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 
>>> 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it will 
>>> bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>
>>>
>>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a 
>>> few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>>> easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From red83brick at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 00:59:24 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:59:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A1D724.70306@cox.net>
Message-ID: <809969.17080.qm@web61017.mail.yahoo.com>

TBI was not introduced until 1987 on Fullsize trucks with V8s.  That means that all of them had the later style "High Swirl" heads on them.  
   
  You can however often find the 454 TBI adapter used on the early 454s for a song.

Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:
  Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed truck, 
latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have pictures of 
the differences or is there some big obvious thing I could notice?

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I 
> can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll 
> probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 300 
> miles on it... so everything about it is currently in near pristine 
> condition last time I checked...
> Jay Vessels wrote:
>> Hi there!
>>
>> No need to swap heads. There are several options for the 
>> TBI-specific intake:
>>
>> 1) Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on the 
>> GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>
>> 2) Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck. These are 
>> likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt valve 
>> cover heads which have a different angle on the four center intake 
>> bolts.
>>
>> 3) Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck 
>> (i.e. F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center 
>> boltholes. I've done this but do not like it at all. Getting the 
>> bolts drilled right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit 
>> under the bolt heads to make sure there was enough surface for 
>> clamping. Personally, I would not do this again.
>>
>> 4) Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads. Holley 
>> 300-49 is a choice.
>>
>> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd do 
>> #1. I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>
>> For TPI, it's a similar issue. 1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to the 
>> heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt heads. 
>> These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>
>> Jay Vessels
>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>
>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>> Is this possible? I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>> with a carburetor that sucks. About 300 bucks for a new one... so I 
>>> was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 
>>> 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it will 
>>> bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>
>>>
>>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a 
>>> few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>>> easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm


 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From aphelion79 at cox.net  Mon Jan  8 08:22:15 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 08:22:15 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <809969.17080.qm@web61017.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <809969.17080.qm@web61017.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45A25397.7060400@cox.net>

Ok, well I guess it is best to look at adapters then, I'll check the 
website and see if I can find that schematic you spoke of earlier guys....

Chris Reynolds wrote:
> TBI was not introduced until 1987 on Fullsize trucks with V8s.  That means that all of them had the later style "High Swirl" heads on them.  
>    
>   You can however often find the 454 TBI adapter used on the early 454s for a song.
>
> Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:
>   Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed truck, 
> latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have pictures of 
> the differences or is there some big obvious thing I could notice?
>
> Aphelion79 wrote:
>   
>> Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I 
>> can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll 
>> probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 300 
>> miles on it... so everything about it is currently in near pristine 
>> condition last time I checked...
>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>     
>>> Hi there!
>>>
>>> No need to swap heads. There are several options for the 
>>> TBI-specific intake:
>>>
>>> 1) Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>>> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on the 
>>> GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>>
>>> 2) Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck. These are 
>>> likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt valve 
>>> cover heads which have a different angle on the four center intake 
>>> bolts.
>>>
>>> 3) Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck 
>>> (i.e. F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center 
>>> boltholes. I've done this but do not like it at all. Getting the 
>>> bolts drilled right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit 
>>> under the bolt heads to make sure there was enough surface for 
>>> clamping. Personally, I would not do this again.
>>>
>>> 4) Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads. Holley 
>>> 300-49 is a choice.
>>>
>>> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd do 
>>> #1. I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>>> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>>
>>> For TPI, it's a similar issue. 1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to the 
>>> heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt heads. 
>>> These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>>> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>>
>>> Jay Vessels
>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>
>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Is this possible? I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>>> with a carburetor that sucks. About 300 bucks for a new one... so I 
>>>> was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 
>>>> 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it will 
>>>> bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a 
>>>> few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>>>> easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>
>  __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>   


From b.shaw at comcast.net  Mon Jan  8 11:12:05 2007
From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 12:12:05 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] J1850 CRC
Message-ID: <45A27B65.7040507@comcast.net>

Does anyone have a J1850 CRC routine in C that they'd be willing to 
share with the rest of the class?

Thanks,

BIll


From psmith at obdpros.com  Mon Jan  8 11:58:03 2007
From: psmith at obdpros.com (Paul Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:58:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Gmecm] J1850 CRC
In-Reply-To: <45A27B65.7040507@comcast.net>
References: <45A27B65.7040507@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <63473.67.149.75.225.1168279083.squirrel@www.obdpros.com>

Hi Bill,

Here's one implementation of the J1850 CRC routine.

unsigned char crcbitbybit(unsigned char* p, unsigned char len) {

unsigned char crchighbit=0x80;
unsigned char crc=0x7E;
unsigned char polynom=0x1D;
unsigned char order=8;

	// bit by bit algorithm with augmented zero bytes.
	// does not use lookup table, suited for polynom orders between 1...32.

	unsigned char i, j, c, bit;


	for (i=0; i<len; i++) {

		c = (unsigned long)*p++;

		for (j=0x80; j; j>>=1) {

			bit = crc & crchighbit;
			crc<<= 1;
			if (c & j) crc|= 1;
			if (bit) crc^= polynom;
		}
	}

	for (i=0; i<order; i++) {

		bit = crc & crchighbit;
		crc<<= 1;
		if (bit) crc^= polynom;
	}

	crc^= 0xFF;;

	return(crc);
}


> Does anyone have a J1850 CRC routine in C that they'd be willing to
> share with the rest of the class?
>
> Thanks,
>
> BIll
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


-- 
www.obdpros.com
Professional grade scantools


From b.shaw at comcast.net  Mon Jan  8 12:16:06 2007
From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 13:16:06 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] J1850 CRC
In-Reply-To: <63473.67.149.75.225.1168279083.squirrel@www.obdpros.com>
References: <45A27B65.7040507@comcast.net>
	<63473.67.149.75.225.1168279083.squirrel@www.obdpros.com>
Message-ID: <45A28A66.2050109@comcast.net>

Nice!  Thanks Paul!

Bill


Paul Smith wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> Here's one implementation of the J1850 CRC routine.
>
> unsigned char crcbitbybit(unsigned char* p, unsigned char len) {
>
> unsigned char crchighbit=0x80;
> unsigned char crc=0x7E;
> unsigned char polynom=0x1D;
> unsigned char order=8;
>
> 	// bit by bit algorithm with augmented zero bytes.
> 	// does not use lookup table, suited for polynom orders between 1...32.
>
> 	unsigned char i, j, c, bit;
>
>
> 	for (i=0; i<len; i++) {
>
> 		c = (unsigned long)*p++;
>
> 		for (j=0x80; j; j>>=1) {
>
> 			bit = crc & crchighbit;
> 			crc<<= 1;
> 			if (c & j) crc|= 1;
> 			if (bit) crc^= polynom;
> 		}
> 	}
>
> 	for (i=0; i<order; i++) {
>
> 		bit = crc & crchighbit;
> 		crc<<= 1;
> 		if (bit) crc^= polynom;
> 	}
>
> 	crc^= 0xFF;;
>
> 	return(crc);
> }
>
>
>   
>> Does anyone have a J1850 CRC routine in C that they'd be willing to
>> share with the rest of the class?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> BIll
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>     
>
>
>   



From harford at gmail.com  Mon Jan  8 12:20:33 2007
From: harford at gmail.com (Alex Harford)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:20:33 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] J1850 CRC
In-Reply-To: <63473.67.149.75.225.1168279083.squirrel@www.obdpros.com>
References: <45A27B65.7040507@comcast.net>
	<63473.67.149.75.225.1168279083.squirrel@www.obdpros.com>
Message-ID: <f9d2dfc50701081020q40b6c5a2l3a95e8db638a87f@mail.gmail.com>

Paul, do you mind if I put that implementation in the GM ECM wiki?

http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/WebHome

On 1/8/07, Paul Smith <psmith at obdpros.com> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> Here's one implementation of the J1850 CRC routine.


From psmith at obdpros.com  Mon Jan  8 18:36:20 2007
From: psmith at obdpros.com (Paul Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 18:36:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Gmecm] J1850 CRC
In-Reply-To: <f9d2dfc50701081020q40b6c5a2l3a95e8db638a87f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <45A27B65.7040507@comcast.net>
	<63473.67.149.75.225.1168279083.squirrel@www.obdpros.com>
	<f9d2dfc50701081020q40b6c5a2l3a95e8db638a87f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61176.67.149.75.225.1168302980.squirrel@www.obdpros.com>

No problems.

Paul
-- 
www.obdpros.com
Professional grade scantools

> Paul, do you mind if I put that implementation in the GM ECM wiki?
>
> http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/WebHome
>
> On 1/8/07, Paul Smith <psmith at obdpros.com> wrote:
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Here's one implementation of the J1850 CRC routine.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>




From jay at vessels-clan.com  Mon Jan  8 18:41:59 2007
From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:41:59 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A25397.7060400@cox.net>
References: <809969.17080.qm@web61017.mail.yahoo.com>
	<45A25397.7060400@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A2E4D7.3040608@vessels-clan.com>

Hi there!

Here is the adapter on the FTP site:

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.jpg

Or, if you can handle the file as a drawing:

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.dwg

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Ok, well I guess it is best to look at adapters then, I'll check the 
> website and see if I can find that schematic you spoke of earlier guys....
> 
> Chris Reynolds wrote:
>> TBI was not introduced until 1987 on Fullsize trucks with V8s.  That 
>> means that all of them had the later style "High Swirl" heads on 
>> them.       You can however often find the 454 TBI adapter used on the 
>> early 454s for a song.
>>
>> Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:
>>   Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed 
>> truck, latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have 
>> pictures of the differences or is there some big obvious thing I could 
>> notice?
>>
>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>  
>>> Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I 
>>> can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll 
>>> probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 300 
>>> miles on it... so everything about it is currently in near pristine 
>>> condition last time I checked...
>>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Hi there!
>>>>
>>>> No need to swap heads. There are several options for the 
>>>> TBI-specific intake:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>>>> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on 
>>>> the GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck. These are 
>>>> likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt valve 
>>>> cover heads which have a different angle on the four center intake 
>>>> bolts.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck 
>>>> (i.e. F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center 
>>>> boltholes. I've done this but do not like it at all. Getting the 
>>>> bolts drilled right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit 
>>>> under the bolt heads to make sure there was enough surface for 
>>>> clamping. Personally, I would not do this again.
>>>>
>>>> 4) Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads. Holley 
>>>> 300-49 is a choice.
>>>>
>>>> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd do 
>>>> #1. I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>>>> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>>>
>>>> For TPI, it's a similar issue. 1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to the 
>>>> heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt 
>>>> heads. These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>>>> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>>>
>>>> Jay Vessels
>>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>>
>>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>> Is this possible? I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>>>> with a carburetor that sucks. About 300 bucks for a new one... so I 
>>>>> was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 
>>>>> 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it 
>>>>> will bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a 
>>>>> few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>>>>> easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>>>>         
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>>       
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>     
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>
>>  __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>> http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>   
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 
> 
> 


From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 19:14:08 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:14:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problem solved!
Message-ID: <364306.99807.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello folks!  First let me thank all of you for your
suggestions re: my wife's 1992 Tracker.  To recap, it
was getting poor mileage, failing emissions testing
because CO was spiking off the scale every time the
throttle was increased, and hesitating on
acceleration.

When I asked you guys for advice, I had already
swapped in known good O2, TPS, MAP, cap/wire/rotor,
ECM, plugs.  I had set the valves, confirmed the
timing, cleaned the EGR (which was completely
plugged)and PCV valves, inspected the injector for
spray pattern and leaks, and confirmed the purge
canister worked.

Following your suggestions, I confirmed the fuel
return line to the tank was clear and confirmed the
MAP port on the throttle body was clear.

All of this made no difference.  I finally decided to
do some investigative surgery, so I pulled off the
Thottle Body... and found the gasket to the intake
manifold was disintegrating!  The gasket was coming
apart like wet paper, and the soft chunks were moving
through the throttle body, plugging ports, although
there were no external vacuum leaks.

After installing a new gasket for a whopping $3.28, it
runs perfectly.  I haven't had a chance to emissions
test it, but the difference in driveability is night
and day!

I've never seen a failure of a gasket like that, where
it just started rotting away on an otherwise excellent
engine.  As far as I can tell it was OEM.  Funny
though, I fell into the trap of thinking that if the
car ran poorly, it was likely a failure of some
complex component.  Thinking back with 20/20
hindsight, in my limited GM, Suzuki, and Toyota EFI
experience, I haven't seen a "failure" yet that wasn't
actually a broken hose, gasket, or wire!

Thanks for the advice folks, thought you'd like to
know how it worked out.  

Duncan 

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From aphelion79 at cox.net  Mon Jan  8 19:30:38 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:30:38 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A2E4D7.3040608@vessels-clan.com>
References: <809969.17080.qm@web61017.mail.yahoo.com>	<45A25397.7060400@cox.net>
	<45A2E4D7.3040608@vessels-clan.com>
Message-ID: <45A2F03E.6020205@cox.net>

It shows the
"HOLLY MANIFOLD BOLT PATTERN ONLY
Q-JET MANIFOLD HOLES ARE NARROWER"

Is there a schematic for that or what is the "narrower", and which holes?
I do believe the Chevy does in fact have a QuadraJet...


Jay Vessels wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> Here is the adapter on the FTP site:
>
> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.jpg
>
> Or, if you can handle the file as a drawing:
>
> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.dwg
>
> Jay Vessels
> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>
> Aphelion79 wrote:
>> Ok, well I guess it is best to look at adapters then, I'll check the 
>> website and see if I can find that schematic you spoke of earlier 
>> guys....
>>
>> Chris Reynolds wrote:
>>> TBI was not introduced until 1987 on Fullsize trucks with V8s.  That 
>>> means that all of them had the later style "High Swirl" heads on 
>>> them.       You can however often find the 454 TBI adapter used on 
>>> the early 454s for a song.
>>>
>>> Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>   Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed 
>>> truck, latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have 
>>> pictures of the differences or is there some big obvious thing I 
>>> could notice?
>>>
>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I 
>>>> can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll 
>>>> probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 
>>>> 300 miles on it... so everything about it is currently in near 
>>>> pristine condition last time I checked...
>>>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> Hi there!
>>>>>
>>>>> No need to swap heads. There are several options for the 
>>>>> TBI-specific intake:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>>>>> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on 
>>>>> the GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck. These 
>>>>> are likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt 
>>>>> valve cover heads which have a different angle on the four center 
>>>>> intake bolts.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck 
>>>>> (i.e. F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center 
>>>>> boltholes. I've done this but do not like it at all. Getting the 
>>>>> bolts drilled right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit 
>>>>> under the bolt heads to make sure there was enough surface for 
>>>>> clamping. Personally, I would not do this again.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads. Holley 
>>>>> 300-49 is a choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd 
>>>>> do #1. I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>>>>> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>>>>
>>>>> For TPI, it's a similar issue. 1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to 
>>>>> the heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt 
>>>>> heads. These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>>>>> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jay Vessels
>>>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>>>
>>>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>> Is this possible? I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>>>>> with a carburetor that sucks. About 300 bucks for a new one... so 
>>>>>> I was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck 
>>>>>> with a 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and 
>>>>>> if it will bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done 
>>>>>> a few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>>>>>> easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>>>>>         
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>>     
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>
>>>  __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>>> http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>   
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From jryan at caminofx.org  Mon Jan  8 19:40:17 2007
From: jryan at caminofx.org (Jared Ryan)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:40:17 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A2F03E.6020205@cox.net>
References: <809969.17080.qm@web61017.mail.yahoo.com>	<45A25397.7060400@cox.net>
	<45A2E4D7.3040608@vessels-clan.com> <45A2F03E.6020205@cox.net>
Message-ID: <ced15fbcfb4a1cf3e1d17c9b71b5a05c@caminofx.org>

Hopefully someone will have a better answer, but the QuadraJet is a 
spreadbore carburetor, while the Holley is squarebore.  I *think* the 
holes were closer together at the front than at the back on my 
QuadraJet, but I've had TBI so long (and sold the carburetor) so I 
can't verify it.

On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:30 PM, Aphelion79 wrote:

> It shows the
> "HOLLY MANIFOLD BOLT PATTERN ONLY
> Q-JET MANIFOLD HOLES ARE NARROWER"
>
> Is there a schematic for that or what is the "narrower", and which 
> holes?
> I do believe the Chevy does in fact have a QuadraJet...
>
>
> Jay Vessels wrote:
>> Hi there!
>>
>> Here is the adapter on the FTP site:
>>
>> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.jpg
>>
>> Or, if you can handle the file as a drawing:
>>
>> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.dwg
>>
>> Jay Vessels
>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>
>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>> Ok, well I guess it is best to look at adapters then, I'll check the 
>>> website and see if I can find that schematic you spoke of earlier 
>>> guys....
>>>
>>> Chris Reynolds wrote:
>>>> TBI was not introduced until 1987 on Fullsize trucks with V8s.  
>>>> That means that all of them had the later style "High Swirl" heads 
>>>> on them.       You can however often find the 454 TBI adapter used 
>>>> on the early 454s for a song.
>>>>
>>>> Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>   Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed 
>>>> truck, latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have 
>>>> pictures of the differences or is there some big obvious thing I 
>>>> could notice?
>>>>
>>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if 
>>>>> I can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) 
>>>>> I'll probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less 
>>>>> than 300 miles on it... so everything about it is currently in 
>>>>> near pristine condition last time I checked...
>>>>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi there!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No need to swap heads. There are several options for the 
>>>>>> TBI-specific intake:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>>>>>> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on 
>>>>>> the GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck. These 
>>>>>> are likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt 
>>>>>> valve cover heads which have a different angle on the four center 
>>>>>> intake bolts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck 
>>>>>> (i.e. F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center 
>>>>>> boltholes. I've done this but do not like it at all. Getting the 
>>>>>> bolts drilled right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit 
>>>>>> under the bolt heads to make sure there was enough surface for 
>>>>>> clamping. Personally, I would not do this again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads. Holley 
>>>>>> 300-49 is a choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd 
>>>>>> do #1. I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>>>>>> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For TPI, it's a similar issue. 1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to 
>>>>>> the heads you have, but after that they're designed for 
>>>>>> centerbolt heads. These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>>>>>> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay Vessels
>>>>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this possible? I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>>>>>> with a carburetor that sucks. About 300 bucks for a new one... 
>>>>>>> so I was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model 
>>>>>>> truck with a 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the 
>>>>>>> Junkyard and if it will bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've 
>>>>>>> done a few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to 
>>>>>>> be the easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  __________________________________________________
>>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>



From herningg at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  8 19:44:43 2007
From: herningg at hotmail.com (Garrett Herning)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:44:43 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problem solved!
In-Reply-To: <364306.99807.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY122-F18393C10D2BD258F1ED2ED9B30@phx.gbl>

Hi Duncan,

Glad you solved your problem. I had a probalem with the TBI gasket on my 
K1500. I would notice at idle sometime it would be a bit rough, other times 
not. Kind of bugged me but with the high milage of the vehicle I thought 
that it was just old. I happened to be doing something else and had the air 
cleaner off and was opening the throttle with the engine off and noticed 
something sticking out into one of the bores farther down. Here the gasket 
had cracked and been partially sucked into the bore on the are with the 
largest distance between bolts and least amount of gasket. (on the typ GM 3 
bolt pattern for a TBI). So I had an intermittent vac leak. From the looks 
of it, it had been like that for a while. I popped off the TBI, scrapped off 
the gasket and put a new one on. IIRC, the old gasket was quite hard and 
brittle. I am pretty sure this was the original GM gasket.

Garrett


>From: Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problem solved!
>Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:14:08 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hello folks!  First let me thank all of you for your
>suggestions re: my wife's 1992 Tracker.  To recap, it
>was getting poor mileage, failing emissions testing
>because CO was spiking off the scale every time the
>throttle was increased, and hesitating on
>acceleration.
>
>When I asked you guys for advice, I had already
>swapped in known good O2, TPS, MAP, cap/wire/rotor,
>ECM, plugs.  I had set the valves, confirmed the
>timing, cleaned the EGR (which was completely
>plugged)and PCV valves, inspected the injector for
>spray pattern and leaks, and confirmed the purge
>canister worked.
>
>Following your suggestions, I confirmed the fuel
>return line to the tank was clear and confirmed the
>MAP port on the throttle body was clear.
>
>All of this made no difference.  I finally decided to
>do some investigative surgery, so I pulled off the
>Thottle Body... and found the gasket to the intake
>manifold was disintegrating!  The gasket was coming
>apart like wet paper, and the soft chunks were moving
>through the throttle body, plugging ports, although
>there were no external vacuum leaks.
>
>After installing a new gasket for a whopping $3.28, it
>runs perfectly.  I haven't had a chance to emissions
>test it, but the difference in driveability is night
>and day!
>
>I've never seen a failure of a gasket like that, where
>it just started rotting away on an otherwise excellent
>engine.  As far as I can tell it was OEM.  Funny
>though, I fell into the trap of thinking that if the
>car ran poorly, it was likely a failure of some
>complex component.  Thinking back with 20/20
>hindsight, in my limited GM, Suzuki, and Toyota EFI
>experience, I haven't seen a "failure" yet that wasn't
>actually a broken hose, gasket, or wire!
>
>Thanks for the advice folks, thought you'd like to
>know how it worked out.
>
>Duncan
>
>**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************
>
>__________________________________________________
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From herningg at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  8 19:46:17 2007
From: herningg at hotmail.com (Garrett Herning)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 20:46:17 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <ced15fbcfb4a1cf3e1d17c9b71b5a05c@caminofx.org>
Message-ID: <BAY122-F1B4BB35862F1E161EF9FDD9B30@phx.gbl>

I've got an old quadrajet out in the garage somewhere. I can dig it out and 
measure up the hole pattern if no one knows it off the top of their head.

Garrett



>From: Jared Ryan <jryan at caminofx.org>
>Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:40:17 -0600
>
>Hopefully someone will have a better answer, but the QuadraJet is a 
>spreadbore carburetor, while the Holley is squarebore.  I *think* the holes 
>were closer together at the front than at the back on my QuadraJet, but 
>I've had TBI so long (and sold the carburetor) so I can't verify it.
>
>On Jan 8, 2007, at 7:30 PM, Aphelion79 wrote:
>
>>It shows the
>>"HOLLY MANIFOLD BOLT PATTERN ONLY
>>Q-JET MANIFOLD HOLES ARE NARROWER"
>>
>>Is there a schematic for that or what is the "narrower", and which holes?
>>I do believe the Chevy does in fact have a QuadraJet...
>>
>>
>>Jay Vessels wrote:
>>>Hi there!
>>>
>>>Here is the adapter on the FTP site:
>>>
>>>ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.jpg
>>>
>>>Or, if you can handle the file as a drawing:
>>>
>>>ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.dwg
>>>
>>>Jay Vessels
>>>1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>
>>>Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>Ok, well I guess it is best to look at adapters then, I'll check the 
>>>>website and see if I can find that schematic you spoke of earlier 
>>>>guys....
>>>>
>>>>Chris Reynolds wrote:
>>>>>TBI was not introduced until 1987 on Fullsize trucks with V8s.  That 
>>>>>means that all of them had the later style "High Swirl" heads on them.  
>>>>>      You can however often find the 454 TBI adapter used on the early 
>>>>>454s for a song.
>>>>>
>>>>>Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>   Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed 
>>>>>truck, latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have 
>>>>>pictures of the differences or is there some big obvious thing I could 
>>>>>notice?
>>>>>
>>>>>Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I 
>>>>>>can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll 
>>>>>>probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 300 
>>>>>>miles on it... so everything about it is currently in near pristine 
>>>>>>condition last time I checked...
>>>>>>Jay Vessels wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi there!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No need to swap heads. There are several options for the TBI-specific 
>>>>>>>intake:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1) Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>>>>>>>Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on the 
>>>>>>>GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2) Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck. These are 
>>>>>>>likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt valve 
>>>>>>>cover heads which have a different angle on the four center intake 
>>>>>>>bolts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>3) Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck (i.e. 
>>>>>>>F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center boltholes. 
>>>>>>>I've done this but do not like it at all. Getting the bolts drilled 
>>>>>>>right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit under the bolt 
>>>>>>>heads to make sure there was enough surface for clamping. Personally, 
>>>>>>>I would not do this again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>4) Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads. Holley 300-49 
>>>>>>>is a choice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd do 
>>>>>>>#1. I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>>>>>>>Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For TPI, it's a similar issue. 1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to the 
>>>>>>>heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt heads. 
>>>>>>>These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>>>>>>>runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jay Vessels
>>>>>>>1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>>>>>1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is this possible? I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>>>>>>>with a carburetor that sucks. About 300 bucks for a new one... so I 
>>>>>>>>was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck with a 
>>>>>>>>350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and if it will 
>>>>>>>>bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>*I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done a 
>>>>>>>>few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>>>>>>>>easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Gmecm mailing list
>>>>>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>>>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>>>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Gmecm mailing list
>>>>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Gmecm mailing list
>>>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  __________________________________________________
>>>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>>>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>>>>>http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________
>>>>>Gmecm mailing list
>>>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Gmecm mailing list
>>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Gmecm mailing list
>>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Gmecm mailing list
>>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
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From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Mon Jan  8 21:28:07 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 21:28:07 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] OBD2 trace?
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830187770F@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

Anyone got some sample traces of OBD2 traffic I could take a look at?
Hopefully something simple like request VIN or MAP or something like
that?  I'm just starting to write some host side OBD2 software and could
use some examples.

thanks,
--steve


-------------------
Steve Ravet
ARM
steve.ravet at arm.com

-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.




From jktucker at usamedia.tv  Mon Jan  8 22:15:35 2007
From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Jake Tucker)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 20:15:35 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A2F03E.6020205@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000001c733a4$da288450$0200a8c0@office>

	The most obvious difference between a square bore and a spread
bore manifold and carburetor is that the secondaries (rear two barrels)
are much bigger than the primaries (front two barrels).  The front-back
bolt spacing is the same on both, but the width is smaller on the
quadrajet.  When I bought the Holley pro-jection system several years
ago, it came with two adapters, one for a square bore and one for a
spread bore, so they are both available.
	I don't believe they ever made a TBI manifold that would bolt up
to the '86 and earlier heads.  I agree with Jay below that you can
re-drill the middle holes to make it work (I've used such a manifold),
but it's ugly and requires extra silicon to keep it from leaking.  I've
also heard that those manifolds are prone to cracking.
	You really don't want to convert to the '87-95 heads either,
because they aren't very good for performance.

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Aphelion79
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:31 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?

It shows the
"HOLLY MANIFOLD BOLT PATTERN ONLY
Q-JET MANIFOLD HOLES ARE NARROWER"

Is there a schematic for that or what is the "narrower", and which
holes?
I do believe the Chevy does in fact have a QuadraJet...


Jay Vessels wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> Here is the adapter on the FTP site:
>
> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.jpg
>
> Or, if you can handle the file as a drawing:
>
> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/uploads/tbiadapter.dwg
>
> Jay Vessels
> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>
> Aphelion79 wrote:
>> Ok, well I guess it is best to look at adapters then, I'll check the 
>> website and see if I can find that schematic you spoke of earlier 
>> guys....
>>
>> Chris Reynolds wrote:
>>> TBI was not introduced until 1987 on Fullsize trucks with V8s.  That

>>> means that all of them had the later style "High Swirl" heads on 
>>> them.       You can however often find the 454 TBI adapter used on 
>>> the early 454s for a song.
>>>
>>> Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>   Whoops, to finish that... so at the Junkyard look for a TBI'ed 
>>> truck, latest model being a '86, for the whole setup... anyone have 
>>> pictures of the differences or is there some big obvious thing I 
>>> could notice?
>>>
>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Yeah, depending on prices of the adapters (compared to prices, if I

>>>> can find any, of some junkyard intakes for the correct years) I'll 
>>>> probably go that route... The engine is brand new with less than 
>>>> 300 miles on it... so everything about it is currently in near 
>>>> pristine condition last time I checked...
>>>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> Hi there!
>>>>>
>>>>> No need to swap heads. There are several options for the 
>>>>> TBI-specific intake:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Grab an adapter to bolt the TBI to an existing 4bbl. intake. 
>>>>> Holley, etc. make them, or make your own -- there is a drawing on 
>>>>> the GMECM website's incoming directory somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Grab a stock TBI intake from a mid-80s fullsize truck. These 
>>>>> are likely to be hard to find, since by '87 GM went to centerbolt 
>>>>> valve cover heads which have a different angle on the four center 
>>>>> intake bolts.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) Grab an intake from a newer ('87-, but not Vortec) car/truck 
>>>>> (i.e. F or B body, or fullsize truck) and redrill the center 
>>>>> boltholes. I've done this but do not like it at all. Getting the 
>>>>> bolts drilled right isn't fun, and I made special washers to sit 
>>>>> under the bolt heads to make sure there was enough surface for 
>>>>> clamping. Personally, I would not do this again.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) Buy an aftermarket intake for a TBI and older heads. Holley 
>>>>> 300-49 is a choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I was on a tight budget or if I had a really nice intake, I'd 
>>>>> do #1. I might do #2 if I got really lucky in the salvage yards. 
>>>>> Otherwise, I'd do #4.
>>>>>
>>>>> For TPI, it's a similar issue. 1985-1986 baseplates will bolt to 
>>>>> the heads you have, but after that they're designed for centerbolt

>>>>> heads. These may be easier to modify, or mix-and-match 
>>>>> runners/plenum/baseplates based on what you dig up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jay Vessels
>>>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>>>
>>>>> Aphelion79 wrote:
>>>>>     
>>>>>> Is this possible? I have a 79' Chevy C20 sitting in my back yard 
>>>>>> with a carburetor that sucks. About 300 bucks for a new one... so

>>>>>> I was wondering can I take the head off of a newer model truck 
>>>>>> with a 350 and TBI (or off a car with TPI) from the Junkyard and 
>>>>>> if it will bolt on directly without any problems?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I realize I also need the wiring harness and computer (I've done

>>>>>> a few FI swaps on vehicles already, but this one seems to be the 
>>>>>> easiest looking like everything will bolt right on...)
>>>>>>         
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>>     
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>
>>>  __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>   
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
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Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From bcroe at juno.com  Mon Jan  8 23:28:51 2007
From: bcroe at juno.com (bcroe at juno.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 23:28:51 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problem solved!
Message-ID: <20070108.233334.860.2.bcroe@juno.com>

I'm betting, a Wide Band OX sensor monitor would 
have showed this lean condition immediately.  Can't 
have too many gauges.

Bruce Roe

8 Jan 07 Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com> writes:
> Hello folks!  First let me thank all of you for your
> suggestions re: my wife's 1992 Tracker.  To recap, it
> was getting poor mileage, failing emissions testing
> because CO was spiking off the scale every time the
> throttle was increased, and hesitating on
> acceleration.

>  I pulled off the
> Thottle Body... and found the gasket to the intake
> manifold was disintegrating!  The gasket was coming
> apart like wet paper, and the soft chunks were moving
> through the throttle body, plugging ports, although
> there were no external vacuum leaks.


From red83brick at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  8 23:42:01 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 21:42:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI problem solved!
In-Reply-To: <20070108.233334.860.2.bcroe@juno.com>
Message-ID: <279338.25206.qm@web61015.mail.yahoo.com>

I doubt the vacuum leak would have shown up as a lean codition on a MAP based EFI system.   The almost always show up as an over-rich mixture.  Atleast in my experience with GM TBI vehicles.

bcroe at juno.com wrote:  I'm betting, a Wide Band OX sensor monitor would 
have showed this lean condition immediately. Can't 
have too many gauges.

Bruce Roe

8 Jan 07 Cowen writes:
> Hello folks! First let me thank all of you for your
> suggestions re: my wife's 1992 Tracker. To recap, it
> was getting poor mileage, failing emissions testing
> because CO was spiking off the scale every time the
> throttle was increased, and hesitating on
> acceleration.

> I pulled off the
> Thottle Body... and found the gasket to the intake
> manifold was disintegrating! The gasket was coming
> apart like wet paper, and the soft chunks were moving
> through the throttle body, plugging ports, although
> there were no external vacuum leaks.
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm


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From BNRVL at aol.com  Tue Jan  9 13:45:07 2007
From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:45:07 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
Message-ID: <d1a.25dfcea.32d54ac3@aol.com>



 Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??

 thanks
 Bob Norville


From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 18:33:07 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:33:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI problem solved!
Message-ID: <20070110003307.63777.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


> I'm betting, a Wide Band OX sensor monitor would 
> have showed this lean condition immediately.  Can't 
> have too many gauges.
> 
> Bruce Roe

Actually, I don't know if it had an internal vacuum
leak or simply a plugged port or two.  The section of
the gasket "most" dissolved only partially covers a
trough in the throttle body.  It made such a mess
coming off, I had trouble with forensic detective work
on the failure!

Either way, as another poster guessed, it was running
rich (failing emissions with off the scale CO) anytime
the throttle was increased.  After only a moment of
constant throttle, the emissions trace cleaned up, so
I guess it was properly in closed loop and
compensating.

You're right about having lots of guages though!

By the way, as part of my research into what the
problem might have been, I came across the story of
leaking electrolytic capacitors from Rubycon Electric
in Taiwan destroying Mitsubishi-built ECMs (in some
Honda, Dodge, Mitsubishi, and Suzuki cars).  I changed
all three caps (one had just started to leak) for $3,
and I still have enough for 4 more ECMs! If you have a
Mitsubishi-built ECM (or TV, or VCR, or motherboard),
consider checking yours for leaks before traces are
wrecked.

ECM Photos I found here:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,22273.0.html

Duncan

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************

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From jktucker at usamedia.tv  Tue Jan  9 20:36:02 2007
From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Jake Tucker)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:36:02 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <d1a.25dfcea.32d54ac3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000001c73460$18f2f970$0200a8c0@office>

Bob,
	The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley.  As a matter of
fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
(although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs).  Holley, and others,
do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
quadrajets were all square bores.

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?



 Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??

 thanks
 Bob Norville
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From doug at chaserace.com  Tue Jan  9 21:06:10 2007
From: doug at chaserace.com (Doug Chase)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 19:06:10 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI problem solved!
In-Reply-To: <20070110003307.63777.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <010d01c73464$54f64c70$2f01a8c0@desk>

Although I wasn't part of helping solve this problem I want to tell you
thanks for posting the resolution to the list.  It helps us all learn.

Doug Chase
www.chaserace.com
425-269-5636
 

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Cowen
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:33 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI problem solved!


> I'm betting, a Wide Band OX sensor monitor would have showed this lean 
> condition immediately.  Can't have too many gauges.
> 
> Bruce Roe

Actually, I don't know if it had an internal vacuum leak or simply a plugged
port or two.  The section of the gasket "most" dissolved only partially
covers a trough in the throttle body.  It made such a mess coming off, I had
trouble with forensic detective work on the failure!

Either way, as another poster guessed, it was running rich (failing
emissions with off the scale CO) anytime the throttle was increased.  After
only a moment of constant throttle, the emissions trace cleaned up, so I
guess it was properly in closed loop and compensating.

You're right about having lots of guages though!

By the way, as part of my research into what the problem might have been, I
came across the story of leaking electrolytic capacitors from Rubycon
Electric in Taiwan destroying Mitsubishi-built ECMs (in some Honda, Dodge,
Mitsubishi, and Suzuki cars).  I changed all three caps (one had just
started to leak) for $3, and I still have enough for 4 more ECMs! If you
have a Mitsubishi-built ECM (or TV, or VCR, or motherboard), consider
checking yours for leaks before traces are wrecked.

ECM Photos I found here:

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,22273.0.html

Duncan

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************

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From red83brick at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  9 22:31:49 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:31:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <000001c73460$18f2f970$0200a8c0@office>
Message-ID: <521106.19976.qm@web61015.mail.yahoo.com>

The Thermoquad was a spread bore carb as was one Autolite that I forget the number to.  The Carter/Edelbrock is technically a spread bore carb, but has a square bore flange.

Jake Tucker <jktucker at usamedia.tv> wrote:  Bob,
The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley. As a matter of
fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
(although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs). Holley, and others,
do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
quadrajets were all square bores.

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?



Hello , what is the bolt pattern for 69 Corvette Carter carb. ??

thanks
Bob Norville
_______________________________________________
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Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
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 __________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From sonoma at shaw.ca  Wed Jan 10 05:08:53 2007
From: sonoma at shaw.ca (Mike)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:08:53 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
Message-ID: <007101c734a7$b9df4b30$6401a8c0@duron4569bdb85>

Hi

 

When I installed a throttle body on my friends old Chevy 350 we used an adapter. 

I didn't like the look of the adapter so I was going to use the TBI intake and modify the center bolt holes for my pre-87 engine.

 

After reading some of the messages here it sounds like there has been some problems using the TBI intake on the earlier engines.

 

What is your experience using this intake on an older small block chevy??

Also I was curious which heads are better 80-86 or 87-91 truck heads or are they about the same??

 


From jryan at caminofx.org  Wed Jan 10 07:36:11 2007
From: jryan at caminofx.org (jryan at caminofx.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:36:11 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
In-Reply-To: <007101c734a7$b9df4b30$6401a8c0@duron4569bdb85>
References: <007101c734a7$b9df4b30$6401a8c0@duron4569bdb85>
Message-ID: <20070110073611.r2x5xz9lw4ow4w4o@webmail.caminofx.org>

Redrilling the holes works, but it's ugly.  Without making special  
washers, you can't get much clamping force on the four center bolts  
(next to the carburetor/TBI mounting pad).  I drilled a TBI manifold  
to fit an '84 305, but I wouldn't do it again.  When I got a 350, I  
got an '87-later-style block and a new TBI manifold and bolted it on.

The bolt angle was changed to make it easier to put a wrench on those  
bolt heads.  It makes a huge difference.

TBI high-swirl heads are meant for high fuel economy and low-end  
torque.  I have them, and I am getting 20 mpg from a 350 in a 3500-lb.  
car that is not very streamlined.  Mine is a daily driver, though, so  
low-end torque and fuel economy are more important to me than top-end  
performance.

For what it's worth, I get the same gas mileage from a 350 with TBI  
high-swirl heads and 9.2:1 static compression as I did from a worn out  
305 with 8.6:1 compression.  Same car, same transmission and rear  
axle, same ECM, only the engine and PROM changed.

Quoting Mike <sonoma at shaw.ca>:

> Hi
>
>
>
> When I installed a throttle body on my friends old Chevy 350 we used  
>  an adapter.
>
> I didn't like the look of the adapter so I was going to use the TBI   
> intake and modify the center bolt holes for my pre-87 engine.
>
>
>
> After reading some of the messages here it sounds like there has   
> been some problems using the TBI intake on the earlier engines.
>
>
>
> What is your experience using this intake on an older small block chevy??
>
> Also I was curious which heads are better 80-86 or 87-91 truck heads  
>  or are they about the same??
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>





From ne14roxcj at gmail.com  Wed Jan 10 10:01:11 2007
From: ne14roxcj at gmail.com (Beau Blankenship)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:01:11 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
In-Reply-To: <20070110073611.r2x5xz9lw4ow4w4o@webmail.caminofx.org>
Message-ID: <45a50dcd.005601a1.2f53.05d0@mx.google.com>

Another option (that would look good and perform better) would be an
aftermarket manifold from Edel, or Hly. You would have to have the intake
off to drill the holes anyway, so why not just stick a new intake on there
that was designed to fit right. Is it worth the extra cash? How much is your
time worth when you have to chase a vacuum leak or change the intake gaskets
because your "modified" intake is giving you problems. 

As for the heads, I would try to get some of the EFI heads from 87&up. 80-86
was a big "smog control era". The smog heads weren't good for much. I use
mine for mock-ups. The castings were too thin in the bowl areas for any
porting (as if that would help any), and on the "deck" for re-surfacing.
Most performance engine builders will warn you away from those "smog"
castings. The EFI heads were good for drivability, and can be lightly ported
to improve flow a little bit. For high RPM power, look to the older stuff.
Muscle car heads. Double-humps, etc. There is a great book by David Vizard
about selecting and modifying SBC heads. It's one of the PowerPro Series
books. Pick up a copy of that, a die-grinder, some burr-bits, and some
polishing stones, and make a weekend of it. Best to do this with some heads
that already need a rebuild, since they will when you get done.

Beau


-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of jryan at caminofx.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:36 AM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???

Redrilling the holes works, but it's ugly.  Without making special  
washers, you can't get much clamping force on the four center bolts  
(next to the carburetor/TBI mounting pad).  I drilled a TBI manifold  
to fit an '84 305, but I wouldn't do it again.  When I got a 350, I  
got an '87-later-style block and a new TBI manifold and bolted it on.

The bolt angle was changed to make it easier to put a wrench on those  
bolt heads.  It makes a huge difference.

TBI high-swirl heads are meant for high fuel economy and low-end  
torque.  I have them, and I am getting 20 mpg from a 350 in a 3500-lb.  
car that is not very streamlined.  Mine is a daily driver, though, so  
low-end torque and fuel economy are more important to me than top-end  
performance.

For what it's worth, I get the same gas mileage from a 350 with TBI  
high-swirl heads and 9.2:1 static compression as I did from a worn out  
305 with 8.6:1 compression.  Same car, same transmission and rear  
axle, same ECM, only the engine and PROM changed.

Quoting Mike <sonoma at shaw.ca>:

> Hi
>
>
>
> When I installed a throttle body on my friends old Chevy 350 we used  
>  an adapter.
>
> I didn't like the look of the adapter so I was going to use the TBI   
> intake and modify the center bolt holes for my pre-87 engine.
>
>
>
> After reading some of the messages here it sounds like there has   
> been some problems using the TBI intake on the earlier engines.
>
>
>
> What is your experience using this intake on an older small block chevy??
>
> Also I was curious which heads are better 80-86 or 87-91 truck heads  
>  or are they about the same??
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>



_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From kenneth.zink at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 10 10:29:30 2007
From: kenneth.zink at hotmail.com (kenneth.zink at hotmail.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:29:30 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
Message-ID: <BAY117-DAV7967A1ECAC0F5288232CC80B20@phx.gbl>

I will be needing to install my SyTy speedo soon into my S10 blazer but need to calibrate it for a V8 first.  Can anybody tell me which resistors I need to change and what they need to be?

Thanks,

Kenneth R Zink II
Kenneth.Zink at hotmail.com
http://hellcatracing.kicks-ass.net

From sonoma at shaw.ca  Wed Jan 10 13:05:11 2007
From: sonoma at shaw.ca (Mike)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:05:11 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
References: <45a50dcd.005601a1.2f53.05d0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002201c734ea$42912ab0$6401a8c0@duron4569bdb85>

I haven't come across a TBI intake which will bolt on to 86 and earlier 
engines without modification.
Tried Edelbrocks website no luck any idea where to find one? P/N
Are 87-91 heads a direct fit to the 80-86 engine?  or do I have to machine 
or change out push rods

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Beau Blankenship" <ne14roxcj at gmail.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???


> Another option (that would look good and perform better) would be an
> aftermarket manifold from Edel, or Hly. You would have to have the intake
> off to drill the holes anyway, so why not just stick a new intake on there
> that was designed to fit right. Is it worth the extra cash? How much is 
> your
> time worth when you have to chase a vacuum leak or change the intake 
> gaskets
> because your "modified" intake is giving you problems.
>
> As for the heads, I would try to get some of the EFI heads from 87&up. 
> 80-86
> was a big "smog control era". The smog heads weren't good for much. I use
> mine for mock-ups. The castings were too thin in the bowl areas for any
> porting (as if that would help any), and on the "deck" for re-surfacing.
> Most performance engine builders will warn you away from those "smog"
> castings. The EFI heads were good for drivability, and can be lightly 
> ported
> to improve flow a little bit. For high RPM power, look to the older stuff.
> Muscle car heads. Double-humps, etc. There is a great book by David Vizard
> about selecting and modifying SBC heads. It's one of the PowerPro Series
> books. Pick up a copy of that, a die-grinder, some burr-bits, and some
> polishing stones, and make a weekend of it. Best to do this with some 
> heads
> that already need a rebuild, since they will when you get done.
>
> Beau
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of jryan at caminofx.org
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:36 AM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
>
> Redrilling the holes works, but it's ugly.  Without making special
> washers, you can't get much clamping force on the four center bolts
> (next to the carburetor/TBI mounting pad).  I drilled a TBI manifold
> to fit an '84 305, but I wouldn't do it again.  When I got a 350, I
> got an '87-later-style block and a new TBI manifold and bolted it on.
>
> The bolt angle was changed to make it easier to put a wrench on those
> bolt heads.  It makes a huge difference.
>
> TBI high-swirl heads are meant for high fuel economy and low-end
> torque.  I have them, and I am getting 20 mpg from a 350 in a 3500-lb.
> car that is not very streamlined.  Mine is a daily driver, though, so
> low-end torque and fuel economy are more important to me than top-end
> performance.
>
> For what it's worth, I get the same gas mileage from a 350 with TBI
> high-swirl heads and 9.2:1 static compression as I did from a worn out
> 305 with 8.6:1 compression.  Same car, same transmission and rear
> axle, same ECM, only the engine and PROM changed.
>
> Quoting Mike <sonoma at shaw.ca>:
>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>>
>> When I installed a throttle body on my friends old Chevy 350 we used
>>  an adapter.
>>
>> I didn't like the look of the adapter so I was going to use the TBI
>> intake and modify the center bolt holes for my pre-87 engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> After reading some of the messages here it sounds like there has
>> been some problems using the TBI intake on the earlier engines.
>>
>>
>>
>> What is your experience using this intake on an older small block chevy??
>>
>> Also I was curious which heads are better 80-86 or 87-91 truck heads
>>  or are they about the same??
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm 



From aphelion79 at cox.net  Wed Jan 10 17:15:21 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:15:21 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
In-Reply-To: <002201c734ea$42912ab0$6401a8c0@duron4569bdb85>
References: <45a50dcd.005601a1.2f53.05d0@mx.google.com>
	<002201c734ea$42912ab0$6401a8c0@duron4569bdb85>
Message-ID: <45A57389.7030802@cox.net>

Is there anyone who makes a adapter for a TBI to a Quadrajet intake?  Or 
can I use a Quadrajet to Holly converter plate, then use a Holly to TBI 
converter plate and stack 'em like that?

Mike wrote:
> I haven't come across a TBI intake which will bolt on to 86 and 
> earlier engines without modification.
> Tried Edelbrocks website no luck any idea where to find one? P/N
> Are 87-91 heads a direct fit to the 80-86 engine?  or do I have to 
> machine or change out push rods
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beau Blankenship" <ne14roxcj at gmail.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
>
>
>> Another option (that would look good and perform better) would be an
>> aftermarket manifold from Edel, or Hly. You would have to have the 
>> intake
>> off to drill the holes anyway, so why not just stick a new intake on 
>> there
>> that was designed to fit right. Is it worth the extra cash? How much 
>> is your
>> time worth when you have to chase a vacuum leak or change the intake 
>> gaskets
>> because your "modified" intake is giving you problems.
>>
>> As for the heads, I would try to get some of the EFI heads from 
>> 87&up. 80-86
>> was a big "smog control era". The smog heads weren't good for much. I 
>> use
>> mine for mock-ups. The castings were too thin in the bowl areas for any
>> porting (as if that would help any), and on the "deck" for re-surfacing.
>> Most performance engine builders will warn you away from those "smog"
>> castings. The EFI heads were good for drivability, and can be lightly 
>> ported
>> to improve flow a little bit. For high RPM power, look to the older 
>> stuff.
>> Muscle car heads. Double-humps, etc. There is a great book by David 
>> Vizard
>> about selecting and modifying SBC heads. It's one of the PowerPro Series
>> books. Pick up a copy of that, a die-grinder, some burr-bits, and some
>> polishing stones, and make a weekend of it. Best to do this with some 
>> heads
>> that already need a rebuild, since they will when you get done.
>>
>> Beau
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of jryan at caminofx.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:36 AM
>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
>>
>> Redrilling the holes works, but it's ugly.  Without making special
>> washers, you can't get much clamping force on the four center bolts
>> (next to the carburetor/TBI mounting pad).  I drilled a TBI manifold
>> to fit an '84 305, but I wouldn't do it again.  When I got a 350, I
>> got an '87-later-style block and a new TBI manifold and bolted it on.
>>
>> The bolt angle was changed to make it easier to put a wrench on those
>> bolt heads.  It makes a huge difference.
>>
>> TBI high-swirl heads are meant for high fuel economy and low-end
>> torque.  I have them, and I am getting 20 mpg from a 350 in a 3500-lb.
>> car that is not very streamlined.  Mine is a daily driver, though, so
>> low-end torque and fuel economy are more important to me than top-end
>> performance.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I get the same gas mileage from a 350 with TBI
>> high-swirl heads and 9.2:1 static compression as I did from a worn out
>> 305 with 8.6:1 compression.  Same car, same transmission and rear
>> axle, same ECM, only the engine and PROM changed.
>>
>> Quoting Mike <sonoma at shaw.ca>:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I installed a throttle body on my friends old Chevy 350 we used
>>>  an adapter.
>>>
>>> I didn't like the look of the adapter so I was going to use the TBI
>>> intake and modify the center bolt holes for my pre-87 engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After reading some of the messages here it sounds like there has
>>> been some problems using the TBI intake on the earlier engines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is your experience using this intake on an older small block 
>>> chevy??
>>>
>>> Also I was curious which heads are better 80-86 or 87-91 truck heads
>>>  or are they about the same??
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From tsm1 at tmcom.com  Wed Jan 10 17:18:49 2007
From: tsm1 at tmcom.com (Tom Mandera)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:18:49 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
In-Reply-To: <45A57389.7030802@cox.net>
References: <45a50dcd.005601a1.2f53.05d0@mx.google.com>	<002201c734ea$42912ab0$6401a8c0@duron4569bdb85>
	<45A57389.7030802@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A57459.9090401@tmcom.com>

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Is there anyone who makes a adapter for a TBI to a Quadrajet intake?  
> Or can I use a Quadrajet to Holly converter plate, then use a Holly to 
> TBI converter plate and stack 'em like that?
There's a spreadbore adapter out there - if nothing else, the old Holley 
ProJection systems used them.



From jktucker at usamedia.tv  Wed Jan 10 19:30:03 2007
From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Kim Tucker)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:30:03 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
In-Reply-To: <45A57389.7030802@cox.net>
Message-ID: <001301c73520$0bd67c60$0200a8c0@office>

Yes, there is a spread-bore adapter plate that Holley makes.  If you
bought a Pro-jection system from Holley several years ago, it would have
come with both.

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Aphelion79
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:15 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???


Is there anyone who makes a adapter for a TBI to a Quadrajet intake?  Or

can I use a Quadrajet to Holly converter plate, then use a Holly to TBI 
converter plate and stack 'em like that?

Mike wrote:
> I haven't come across a TBI intake which will bolt on to 86 and
> earlier engines without modification.
> Tried Edelbrocks website no luck any idea where to find one? P/N
> Are 87-91 heads a direct fit to the 80-86 engine?  or do I have to 
> machine or change out push rods
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beau Blankenship" <ne14roxcj at gmail.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 8:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
>
>
>> Another option (that would look good and perform better) would be an 
>> aftermarket manifold from Edel, or Hly. You would have to have the 
>> intake off to drill the holes anyway, so why not just stick a new 
>> intake on there
>> that was designed to fit right. Is it worth the extra cash? How much 
>> is your
>> time worth when you have to chase a vacuum leak or change the intake 
>> gaskets
>> because your "modified" intake is giving you problems.
>>
>> As for the heads, I would try to get some of the EFI heads from
>> 87&up. 80-86
>> was a big "smog control era". The smog heads weren't good for much. I

>> use
>> mine for mock-ups. The castings were too thin in the bowl areas for
any
>> porting (as if that would help any), and on the "deck" for
re-surfacing.
>> Most performance engine builders will warn you away from those "smog"
>> castings. The EFI heads were good for drivability, and can be lightly

>> ported
>> to improve flow a little bit. For high RPM power, look to the older 
>> stuff.
>> Muscle car heads. Double-humps, etc. There is a great book by David 
>> Vizard
>> about selecting and modifying SBC heads. It's one of the PowerPro
Series
>> books. Pick up a copy of that, a die-grinder, some burr-bits, and
some
>> polishing stones, and make a weekend of it. Best to do this with some

>> heads
>> that already need a rebuild, since they will when you get done.
>>
>> Beau
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of jryan at caminofx.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:36 AM
>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
>>
>> Redrilling the holes works, but it's ugly.  Without making special 
>> washers, you can't get much clamping force on the four center bolts 
>> (next to the carburetor/TBI mounting pad).  I drilled a TBI manifold 
>> to fit an '84 305, but I wouldn't do it again.  When I got a 350, I 
>> got an '87-later-style block and a new TBI manifold and bolted it on.
>>
>> The bolt angle was changed to make it easier to put a wrench on those

>> bolt heads.  It makes a huge difference.
>>
>> TBI high-swirl heads are meant for high fuel economy and low-end 
>> torque.  I have them, and I am getting 20 mpg from a 350 in a 
>> 3500-lb. car that is not very streamlined.  Mine is a daily driver, 
>> though, so low-end torque and fuel economy are more important to me 
>> than top-end performance.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I get the same gas mileage from a 350 with TBI 
>> high-swirl heads and 9.2:1 static compression as I did from a worn 
>> out 305 with 8.6:1 compression.  Same car, same transmission and rear

>> axle, same ECM, only the engine and PROM changed.
>>
>> Quoting Mike <sonoma at shaw.ca>:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I installed a throttle body on my friends old Chevy 350 we used

>>> an adapter.
>>>
>>> I didn't like the look of the adapter so I was going to use the TBI 
>>> intake and modify the center bolt holes for my pre-87 engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After reading some of the messages here it sounds like there has 
>>> been some problems using the TBI intake on the earlier engines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is your experience using this intake on an older small block
>>> chevy??
>>>
>>> Also I was curious which heads are better 80-86 or 87-91 truck heads

>>> or are they about the same??
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From aphelion79 at cox.net  Wed Jan 10 23:46:03 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:46:03 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <000001c73460$18f2f970$0200a8c0@office>
References: <000001c73460$18f2f970$0200a8c0@office>
Message-ID: <45A5CF1B.5080601@cox.net>

Ok another couple of questions I have for the setup:

I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were fuel 
only, or did they control timing as well? 

On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance, 
I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to the 
crankshaft)  I also know of other types of engines using complete timing 
control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock sensor 
is used...

Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the engine? 
(Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have one exhaust 
manifold! =D )


Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't 
start up until 1996?  (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some 
reason it comes to mind, lol.)

Thanks for the support everyone!

Jake Tucker wrote:
> Bob,
> 	The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley.  As a matter of
> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs).  Holley, and others,
> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
> quadrajets were all square bores.
>
> Jake
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>
>
>
>  Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??
>
>  thanks
>  Bob Norville
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>   


From jay at vessels-clan.com  Thu Jan 11 06:28:01 2007
From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 07:28:01 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A5CF1B.5080601@cox.net>
References: <000001c73460$18f2f970$0200a8c0@office> <45A5CF1B.5080601@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A62D51.3020503@vessels-clan.com>

Hi there!

> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were fuel 
> only, or did they control timing as well?

They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition module.

> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance, 
> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to the 
> crankshaft)

The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does have 
relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set at a 
particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that.  Since it 
is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where 
the crank is.

   I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock sensor 
> is used...

Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM.  The 
ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
doesn't need it.

> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the engine? 
> (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have one exhaust 
> manifold! =D )

For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.

> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't 
> start up until 1996?  (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some 
> reason it comes to mind, lol.)

Right on both counts.

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)


> Thanks for the support everyone!
> 
> Jake Tucker wrote:
>> Bob,
>>     The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley.  As a matter of
>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs).  Holley, and others,
>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>
>> Jake
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>
>>
>>
>>  Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??
>>
>>  thanks
>>  Bob Norville



From BNRVL at aol.com  Thu Jan 11 10:23:15 2007
From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:23:15 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] SBC TBI intake to 86 and earlier ???
Message-ID: <c05.d9219d5.32d7be73@aol.com>



  Hello Jake , did GM make a spacer that will work on my Carter 4 Bbl Carb, 
or will I have to find a pattern for the Carter intake and a spacer block ? 

 Will I have to make a pattern from the bottom of the Carter  carb, from a 
Carter Gasket for the hole layout ,  and a pattern for the bottom of the  GM TBI 
to be used in my system , to make a spacer so they will both line up when 
installed on the Corvette Alum intake ?
 I do not know what is out there in patterns , and really don't know how to 
find them .
 this way I can use my present intake manifold , do you think this wikll work 
on my 69 Corvette 350 CI engine ??

 Thank you very Much
  Bob Norville


From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net  Thu Jan 11 11:03:36 2007
From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:03:36 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
Message-ID: <45A66DE8.3040601@highspeedlink.net>

I know that the 730 can't drive more than one and that it would need 
external drivers to run multiple LoZ injectors. I was just wonndering if 
there was anything associated with the way the ECM calculates pulse 
width and fires the injectors that wouldn't work with TBI injectors.

Common sense tells me that as long as the PCM is programmed with the 
correct injector flow rate and the VE tables are dialed in that there 
shouldn't be a problem.
The one person who's told me otherwise seems content to be demagogic and 
not bother to explain himself so I have to assume that he's wrong and my 
common sense evaluation is correct.



Will


> From: Tomas Sokorai <tsokorai at minimania.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:48:08 -0800 (PST), Chris Reynolds <red83brick at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Because you are going to alot of trouble to re-invent the wheel so to
>> speak.
>>
>>   The TBI injectors are driven with Peak and Hold drivers, the 7730 lacks
>> this style of driver.   The 165 MAF TPI ECM was however used with TBI in
>> the 4 banger S10s.
> 
> '730 & '727  *can* drive just one injector in P&H mode. Take a look at the 2.0 TBI app.
> So if its a small TBI with one injector, I can't see why a 730/727 can't be used there with no extra HW or hassles.
> 
> --
> Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.



From jlg-sep at comcast.net  Thu Jan 11 11:56:46 2007
From: jlg-sep at comcast.net (Scott Peitzsch)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:56:46 +0000
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
Message-ID: <011120071756.2418.45A67A5D000DE6380000097222069997359F0A9CD3090406@comcast.net>

> I know that the 730 can't drive more than one and that it would need 
> external drivers to run multiple LoZ injectors. I was just wonndering if 
> there was anything associated with the way the ECM calculates pulse 
> width and fires the injectors that wouldn't work with TBI injectors.


I can't speak to the ECM calculations, but there's no reason a '730
can't be used to run (2) TBI injectors in parallel, provided you're willing
to perform the injector driver upgrade shown on Bill's page:

http://p-928.home.comcast.net/749mods.html

If you upgrade the driver and drop the sense resistor's value to half
the original, the '730 ECMs single injector driver will run two TBI injectors
correctly.  This same change would also allow it to run (4) port type
PnH injectors.

-Scott


From gary at garyandliz.com  Thu Jan 11 12:54:05 2007
From: gary at garyandliz.com (Gary Evans)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:54:05 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
In-Reply-To: <45A66DE8.3040601@highspeedlink.net>
References: <45A66DE8.3040601@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <0FDE8782-457D-4D38-B78A-89B8FBDFE418@garyandliz.com>

The fueling strategies for a dry vs. wet manifold system are going to  
be very different. True, basic steady state VE theory will be the  
same, and you could probably get such a setup to run.

But AE, DE, cold start, warm soak restart, cranking fuel and PE  
(among other things) are going to be very different to account for  
the presence of fuel in the manifold under a variety of conditions. I  
doubt such a TBI/TPI hack job would ever run good enough to be  
mistaken for a factory tune.

That's what my common sense tells me... I could be wrong.

As evidence for this I would point out that GM felt it was necessary  
to write entire new calibrations for TBI vs TPI applications, not  
just change injector and VE constants.

If you are talking about running a 'TPI ecm' with a modified TBI cal,  
then yeah, I can see that working just fine. I am not aware of  
anything in the ECM hardware that would absolutely prevent it from  
being adapted to a TBI setup with proper electrical accommodations.  
But I think an '730 + $8D + TBI combo would pretty much suck for  
drivability no matter how much you tweaked the VE table.

Having said all that, you really should go ahead and try it and let  
us know how it works out. Seriously! Until someone gives it a go, we  
may never know. If you try it and report the results (good or bad)  
then we will all have learned something.

-Gary


On Jan 11, 2007, at 9:03 AM, William Lucke wrote:

> I know that the 730 can't drive more than one and that it would  
> need external drivers to run multiple LoZ injectors. I was just  
> wonndering if there was anything associated with the way the ECM  
> calculates pulse width and fires the injectors that wouldn't work  
> with TBI injectors.
>
> Common sense tells me that as long as the PCM is programmed with  
> the correct injector flow rate and the VE tables are dialed in that  
> there shouldn't be a problem.
> The one person who's told me otherwise seems content to be  
> demagogic and not bother to explain himself so I have to assume  
> that he's wrong and my common sense evaluation is correct.
>
>
>
> Will
>
>
>> From: Tomas Sokorai <tsokorai at minimania.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: TBI injector schema vs. port injector schema
>> On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:48:08 -0800 (PST), Chris Reynolds  
>> <red83brick at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Because you are going to alot of trouble to re-invent the wheel  
>>> so to
>>> speak.
>>>
>>>   The TBI injectors are driven with Peak and Hold drivers, the  
>>> 7730 lacks
>>> this style of driver.   The 165 MAF TPI ECM was however used with  
>>> TBI in
>>> the 4 banger S10s.
>> '730 & '727  *can* drive just one injector in P&H mode. Take a  
>> look at the 2.0 TBI app.
>> So if its a small TBI with one injector, I can't see why a 730/727  
>> can't be used there with no extra HW or hassles.
>> --
>> Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From aphelion79 at cox.net  Thu Jan 11 18:13:19 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:13:19 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A62D51.3020503@vessels-clan.com>
References: <000001c73460$18f2f970$0200a8c0@office> <45A5CF1B.5080601@cox.net>
	<45A62D51.3020503@vessels-clan.com>
Message-ID: <45A6D29F.6060706@cox.net>

Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull 
the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as well 
right?

Also one more thing I've thought of...
How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor?  Does it 
have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI?  
I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never worried 
about autos! =)

Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
problems/concerns about!

Jay Vessels wrote:
> Hi there!
>
>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>
> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
> module.
>
>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance, 
>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to the 
>> crankshaft)
>
> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does have 
> relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set at a 
> particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that.  Since it 
> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where 
> the crank is.
>
>   I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>> sensor is used...
>
> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM.  The 
> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
> doesn't need it.
>
>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>
> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>
>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't 
>> start up until 1996?  (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some 
>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>
> Right on both counts.
>
> Jay Vessels
> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>
>
>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>
>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>>     The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley.  As a matter of
>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs).  Holley, and others,
>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>
>>> Jake
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??
>>>
>>>  thanks
>>>  Bob Norville
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From jay at vessels-clan.com  Thu Jan 11 18:55:15 2007
From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A6D29F.6060706@cox.net>
References: <000001c73460$18f2f970$0200a8c0@office>
	<45A5CF1B.5080601@cox.net>	<45A62D51.3020503@vessels-clan.com>
	<45A6D29F.6060706@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A6DC73.9090403@vessels-clan.com>

Hi there!

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull 
> the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as well 
> right?

Yes.  Get the distributor too.

> Also one more thing I've thought of...
> How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor? 

There is a switch on the carburetor linkage.  I haven't tried to connect 
it to an ECM, but it's possible.  For simplicity, I'd adapt the existing 
wiring / switch arrangement to the TBI setup.

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)



From jktucker at usamedia.tv  Thu Jan 11 19:18:07 2007
From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Jake Tucker)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:18:07 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A6D29F.6060706@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000001c735e7$9215acc0$0200a8c0@office>

Bob,
    If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
a TH400.  If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago.  The
TH400 uses an electric solenoid for the kick-down on the transmission.
On a carb, this is activated by a simple switch that is below the gas
pedal and senses full throttle.  On a TBI system, it is controlled by
the computer, which allows you to change the set point.  You can
probably re-pin a harness that doesn't have this wire, but that's a
little more difficult.  Look for an orange wire that is by itself, near
the firewall on the drivers side.  The TH350 and manual trans versions
of the TBI system will not have this wire.  The TH350 uses a mechanical
cable for the kickdown, and obviously the manual trans doesn't do
anything.

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Aphelion79
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:13 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?

Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull

the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as well 
right?

Also one more thing I've thought of...
How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor?  Does it

have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI?  
I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never worried

about autos! =)

Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
problems/concerns about!

Jay Vessels wrote:
> Hi there!
>
>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>
> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
> module.
>
>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance,

>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to the 
>> crankshaft)
>
> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does have 
> relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set at a 
> particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that.  Since it

> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where

> the crank is.
>
>   I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>> sensor is used...
>
> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM.  The 
> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
> doesn't need it.
>
>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>
> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>
>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't

>> start up until 1996?  (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some

>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>
> Right on both counts.
>
> Jay Vessels
> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>
>
>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>
>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>> Bob,
>>>     The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley.  As a matter of
>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs).  Holley, and
others,
>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>
>>> Jake
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On
>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??
>>>
>>>  thanks
>>>  Bob Norville
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From aphelion79 at cox.net  Thu Jan 11 21:49:57 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:49:57 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <000001c735e7$9215acc0$0200a8c0@office>
References: <000001c735e7$9215acc0$0200a8c0@office>
Message-ID: <45A70565.1030107@cox.net>

Not to sound ignorant, however much I may be on the topic, what exactly 
is a CAL?

Jake Tucker wrote:
> Bob,
>     If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
> a TH400.  If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago.  The
> TH400 uses an electric solenoid for the kick-down on the transmission.
> On a carb, this is activated by a simple switch that is below the gas
> pedal and senses full throttle.  On a TBI system, it is controlled by
> the computer, which allows you to change the set point.  You can
> probably re-pin a harness that doesn't have this wire, but that's a
> little more difficult.  Look for an orange wire that is by itself, near
> the firewall on the drivers side.  The TH350 and manual trans versions
> of the TBI system will not have this wire.  The TH350 uses a mechanical
> cable for the kickdown, and obviously the manual trans doesn't do
> anything.
>
> Jake
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
> Behalf Of Aphelion79
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:13 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>
> Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull
>
> the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as well 
> right?
>
> Also one more thing I've thought of...
> How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor?  Does it
>
> have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI?  
> I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never worried
>
> about autos! =)
>
> Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
> problems/concerns about!
>
> Jay Vessels wrote:
>   
>> Hi there!
>>
>>     
>>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>>>       
>> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
>> module.
>>
>>     
>>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance,
>>>       
>
>   
>>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to the 
>>> crankshaft)
>>>       
>> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does have 
>> relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set at a 
>> particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that.  Since it
>>     
>
>   
>> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
>> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where
>>     
>
>   
>> the crank is.
>>
>>   I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>>     
>>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>>> sensor is used...
>>>       
>> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM.  The 
>> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
>> doesn't need it.
>>
>>     
>>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>>>       
>> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>>
>>     
>>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't
>>>       
>
>   
>>> start up until 1996?  (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some
>>>       
>
>   
>>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>>>       
>> Right on both counts.
>>
>> Jay Vessels
>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>>
>>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Bob,
>>>>     The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley.  As a matter of
>>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs).  Holley, and
>>>>         
> others,
>   
>>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>>
>>>> Jake
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]
>>>>         
> On
>   
>>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??
>>>>
>>>>  thanks
>>>>  Bob Norville
>>>>         
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>   


From aphelion79 at cox.net  Thu Jan 11 21:56:45 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:56:45 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A70565.1030107@cox.net>
References: <000001c735e7$9215acc0$0200a8c0@office> <45A70565.1030107@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A706FD.8030308@cox.net>

Also,
http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%20950%20and%20Pro-Jection%20TBI%20Service%20Parts.asp


    Part #: 17-41


    Commander 950 and Pro?Jection TBI Service Parts
    <http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%5F950%5Fand%5FPro%2DJection%5FTBI%5FService%5FParts.asp>

Is this the correct one for a Chevy 350?

Also, I have a 4-barrel carburetor on there... I see that Holly makes a 
4bbl TBI... is this "normal" (i.e. stock? more power than the 
carburetor?) I also don't see an adapter for the 4bbl TBI... Although if 
2bbl is stock and is what I'm going to find at the Junkyard, please let 
me know not to worry about the TBI being 4bbl or 2bbl!

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Not to sound ignorant, however much I may be on the topic, what 
> exactly is a CAL?
>
> Jake Tucker wrote:
>> Bob,
>> If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
>> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
>> a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
>> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago. The
>> TH400 uses an electric solenoid for the kick-down on the transmission.
>> On a carb, this is activated by a simple switch that is below the gas
>> pedal and senses full throttle. On a TBI system, it is controlled by
>> the computer, which allows you to change the set point. You can
>> probably re-pin a harness that doesn't have this wire, but that's a
>> little more difficult. Look for an orange wire that is by itself, near
>> the firewall on the drivers side. The TH350 and manual trans versions
>> of the TBI system will not have this wire. The TH350 uses a mechanical
>> cable for the kickdown, and obviously the manual trans doesn't do
>> anything.
>>
>> Jake
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
>> Behalf Of Aphelion79
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:13 PM
>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>
>> Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull
>>
>> the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as 
>> well right?
>>
>> Also one more thing I've thought of...
>> How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor? Does it
>>
>> have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI? 
>> I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never worried
>>
>> about autos! =)
>>
>> Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
>> problems/concerns about!
>>
>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>> Hi there!
>>>
>>>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>>>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>>> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
>>> module.
>>>
>>>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>>>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance,
>>
>>>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to 
>>>> the crankshaft)
>>> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does 
>>> have relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set 
>>> at a particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that. 
>>> Since it
>>
>>> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
>>> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where
>>
>>> the crank is.
>>>
>>> I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>>>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>>>> sensor is used...
>>> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM. The 
>>> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
>>> doesn't need it.
>>>
>>>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>>>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>>>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>>> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>>>
>>>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't
>>
>>>> start up until 1996? (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some
>>
>>>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>>> Right on both counts.
>>>
>>> Jay Vessels
>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>>>> Bob,
>>>>> The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley. As a matter of
>>>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs). Holley, and
>> others,
>>>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jake
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]
>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello , what is the bolt pattern for 69 Corvette Carter carb. ??
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> Bob Norville
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From darrenfreed at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 10:13:43 2007
From: darrenfreed at gmail.com (Darren Freed)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:13:43 +0000
Subject: [Gmecm] OBD2 trace?
In-Reply-To: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830187770F@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830187770F@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <f61eb5c30701120813m9dbaf89q603ff8dde1d27598@mail.gmail.com>

Steve,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to your request.  Here is some traffic
(I got this from Loyde at fastfieros):

Tool request for data block 1 (first 4 digits of VIN):
6C 10 F1 3C 01
PCM response:
6C F1 10 7C 01 00 31 47 34 48 50

Tool request for data block 2 (next 4 digits of VIN):
6C 10 F1 3C 02
PCM response:
6C F1 10 7C 02 35 34 4B 30 59 34

Tool request for data block 3 (last 4 digits of VIN):
6C 10 F1 3C 03
PCM response:
6C F1 10 7C 03 31 37 39 31 38 30

Tool request for data block $A (Operational Software Part Number)
6C 10 F1 3C 0A
PCM response:
6C F1 10 7C 0A 00 8F 39 2E

Tool request for data block 8 (End Model P/N)
6C 10 F1 3C 08
PCM response:
6C F1 10 7C 08 00 8F 39 40

I've got some more things if you're interested.

Darren



On 1/9/07, Steve Ravet <Steve.Ravet at arm.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone got some sample traces of OBD2 traffic I could take a look at?
> Hopefully something simple like request VIN or MAP or something like
> that?  I'm just starting to write some host side OBD2 software and could
> use some examples.
>
> thanks,
> --steve
>
>
> -------------------
> Steve Ravet
> ARM
> steve.ravet at arm.com
>
> --
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From ne14roxcj at gmail.com  Fri Jan 12 11:51:00 2007
From: ne14roxcj at gmail.com (Beau Blankenship)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:51:00 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A706FD.8030308@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45a7ca94.4d4ed86e.1bb1.ffff9ae5@mx.google.com>

 The 17-41 adapter is what I used on my Edel. Performer intake to adapt the
TBI. The bores are 2" (Big-block/ProJection size). The stock TBI has smaller
bores. Not a problem, but something to be aware of if you are considering an
upgrade later (or even now if you find a 454 TB in the parts-yard). But,
then if you found one of those, you could get its adapter (which is heated).
The 4-bbl was a Holley thing. I'm sure someone here has tried adapting it to
a GM ECM, but it is a bit more work than sticking a stock TBI on there. More
tuning, wiring, possibly a different ECM, injector drivers, etc. Don't worry
about finding one of those in a parts-yard. You probably won't.

Beau

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Aphelion79
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:57 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?

Also,
http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%20950%20and%20Pro-Jection%20TBI%20Serv
ice%20Parts.asp


    Part #: 17-41


    Commander 950 and Pro-Jection TBI Service Parts
 
<http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%5F950%5Fand%5FPro%2DJection%5FTBI%5FS
ervice%5FParts.asp>

Is this the correct one for a Chevy 350?

Also, I have a 4-barrel carburetor on there... I see that Holly makes a 
4bbl TBI... is this "normal" (i.e. stock? more power than the 
carburetor?) I also don't see an adapter for the 4bbl TBI... Although if 
2bbl is stock and is what I'm going to find at the Junkyard, please let 
me know not to worry about the TBI being 4bbl or 2bbl!

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Not to sound ignorant, however much I may be on the topic, what 
> exactly is a CAL?
>
> Jake Tucker wrote:
>> Bob,
>> If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
>> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
>> a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
>> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago. The
>> TH400 uses an electric solenoid for the kick-down on the transmission.
>> On a carb, this is activated by a simple switch that is below the gas
>> pedal and senses full throttle. On a TBI system, it is controlled by
>> the computer, which allows you to change the set point. You can
>> probably re-pin a harness that doesn't have this wire, but that's a
>> little more difficult. Look for an orange wire that is by itself, near
>> the firewall on the drivers side. The TH350 and manual trans versions
>> of the TBI system will not have this wire. The TH350 uses a mechanical
>> cable for the kickdown, and obviously the manual trans doesn't do
>> anything.
>>
>> Jake
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
>> Behalf Of Aphelion79
>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:13 PM
>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>
>> Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull
>>
>> the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as 
>> well right?
>>
>> Also one more thing I've thought of...
>> How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor? Does it
>>
>> have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI? 
>> I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never worried
>>
>> about autos! =)
>>
>> Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
>> problems/concerns about!
>>
>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>> Hi there!
>>>
>>>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>>>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>>> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
>>> module.
>>>
>>>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>>>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance,
>>
>>>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to 
>>>> the crankshaft)
>>> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does 
>>> have relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set 
>>> at a particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that. 
>>> Since it
>>
>>> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
>>> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where
>>
>>> the crank is.
>>>
>>> I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>>>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>>>> sensor is used...
>>> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM. The 
>>> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
>>> doesn't need it.
>>>
>>>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>>>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>>>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>>> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>>>
>>>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't
>>
>>>> start up until 1996? (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some
>>
>>>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>>> Right on both counts.
>>>
>>> Jay Vessels
>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>>>> Bob,
>>>>> The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley. As a matter of
>>>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs). Holley, and
>> others,
>>>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jake
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]
>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello , what is the bolt pattern for 69 Corvette Carter carb. ??
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks
>>>>> Bob Norville
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From craig.moates at cox.net  Fri Jan 12 23:05:22 2007
From: craig.moates at cox.net (Craig Moates)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:05:22 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Virtual Com Port VPW Board
In-Reply-To: <45A66DE8.3040601@highspeedlink.net>
Message-ID: <20070113050617.JMHY15326.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>

Folks,

I've got a couple (4) of those first-run VirtualComVPW boards coming next
week if anyone is interested in playing around. No firmware yet or even
initial troubleshooting shakedown, but it's pretty straightforward and so
should work barring any unforeseen torpedoes of ignorance.

If anyone wants to get involved in the firmware / software side, feel free
to join in the fray. I'll be making at least one iteration of this design
for use with some legacy software apps, but the bulk of it will be public
domain.

If you're set up with an Atmel ISP and want to play with C++/ASM code
combos, along with J1850/1979/68HC58 code, then this would be an ideal toy
for you to grind away a couple of days digging into.

http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/VirtualComVPW

Best regards,
Craig Moates
 



From aphelion79 at cox.net  Fri Jan 12 23:42:32 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:42:32 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45a7ca94.4d4ed86e.1bb1.ffff9ae5@mx.google.com>
References: <45a7ca94.4d4ed86e.1bb1.ffff9ae5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <45A87148.1070302@cox.net>

Oh okay so the 2bbl TBI was stock, that clears that up... :)  I figured 
the 4bbl was some fancy thing by Holly... thanks for all the information 
everyone, I'm still lost as to what a "CAL" is when I was asking about 
the Transmission earlier:

"If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find

a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago."


Beau Blankenship wrote:
>  The 17-41 adapter is what I used on my Edel. Performer intake to adapt the
> TBI. The bores are 2" (Big-block/ProJection size). The stock TBI has smaller
> bores. Not a problem, but something to be aware of if you are considering an
> upgrade later (or even now if you find a 454 TB in the parts-yard). But,
> then if you found one of those, you could get its adapter (which is heated).
> The 4-bbl was a Holley thing. I'm sure someone here has tried adapting it to
> a GM ECM, but it is a bit more work than sticking a stock TBI on there. More
> tuning, wiring, possibly a different ECM, injector drivers, etc. Don't worry
> about finding one of those in a parts-yard. You probably won't.
>
> Beau
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
> Of Aphelion79
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:57 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>
> Also,
> http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%20950%20and%20Pro-Jection%20TBI%20Serv
> ice%20Parts.asp
>
>
>     Part #: 17-41
>
>
>     Commander 950 and Pro-Jection TBI Service Parts
>  
> <http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%5F950%5Fand%5FPro%2DJection%5FTBI%5FS
> ervice%5FParts.asp>
>
> Is this the correct one for a Chevy 350?
>
> Also, I have a 4-barrel carburetor on there... I see that Holly makes a 
> 4bbl TBI... is this "normal" (i.e. stock? more power than the 
> carburetor?) I also don't see an adapter for the 4bbl TBI... Although if 
> 2bbl is stock and is what I'm going to find at the Junkyard, please let 
> me know not to worry about the TBI being 4bbl or 2bbl!
>
> Aphelion79 wrote:
>   
>> Not to sound ignorant, however much I may be on the topic, what 
>> exactly is a CAL?
>>
>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>     
>>> Bob,
>>> If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
>>> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
>>> a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
>>> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago. The
>>> TH400 uses an electric solenoid for the kick-down on the transmission.
>>> On a carb, this is activated by a simple switch that is below the gas
>>> pedal and senses full throttle. On a TBI system, it is controlled by
>>> the computer, which allows you to change the set point. You can
>>> probably re-pin a harness that doesn't have this wire, but that's a
>>> little more difficult. Look for an orange wire that is by itself, near
>>> the firewall on the drivers side. The TH350 and manual trans versions
>>> of the TBI system will not have this wire. The TH350 uses a mechanical
>>> cable for the kickdown, and obviously the manual trans doesn't do
>>> anything.
>>>
>>> Jake
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Aphelion79
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:13 PM
>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>
>>> Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull
>>>
>>> the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as 
>>> well right?
>>>
>>> Also one more thing I've thought of...
>>> How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor? Does it
>>>
>>> have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI? 
>>> I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never worried
>>>
>>> about autos! =)
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
>>> problems/concerns about!
>>>
>>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hi there!
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>>>>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>>>>>           
>>>> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
>>>> module.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>>>>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance,
>>>>>           
>>>>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to 
>>>>> the crankshaft)
>>>>>           
>>>> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does 
>>>> have relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set 
>>>> at a particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that. 
>>>> Since it
>>>>         
>>>> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
>>>> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where
>>>>         
>>>> the crank is.
>>>>
>>>> I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>>>>         
>>>>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>>>>> sensor is used...
>>>>>           
>>>> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM. The 
>>>> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
>>>> doesn't need it.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>>>>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>>>>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>>>>>           
>>>> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't
>>>>>           
>>>>> start up until 1996? (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some
>>>>>           
>>>>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>>>>>           
>>>> Right on both counts.
>>>>
>>>> Jay Vessels
>>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>> The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley. As a matter of
>>>>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>>>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs). Holley, and
>>>>>>             
>>> others,
>>>       
>>>>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>>>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jake
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]
>>>>>>             
>>> On
>>>       
>>>>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>>>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello , what is the bolt pattern for 69 Corvette Carter carb. ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>> Bob Norville
>>>>>>             
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>   


From red83brick at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 12 23:53:46 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:53:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A87148.1070302@cox.net>
Message-ID: <659881.10141.qm@web61014.mail.yahoo.com>

Cal = Calibration or the Prom Chip.

Aphelion79 <aphelion79 at cox.net> wrote:  Oh okay so the 2bbl TBI was stock, that clears that up... :) I figured 
the 4bbl was some fancy thing by Holly... thanks for all the information 
everyone, I'm still lost as to what a "CAL" is when I was asking about 
the Transmission earlier:

"If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find

a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago."


Beau Blankenship wrote:
> The 17-41 adapter is what I used on my Edel. Performer intake to adapt the
> TBI. The bores are 2" (Big-block/ProJection size). The stock TBI has smaller
> bores. Not a problem, but something to be aware of if you are considering an
> upgrade later (or even now if you find a 454 TB in the parts-yard). But,
> then if you found one of those, you could get its adapter (which is heated).
> The 4-bbl was a Holley thing. I'm sure someone here has tried adapting it to
> a GM ECM, but it is a bit more work than sticking a stock TBI on there. More
> tuning, wiring, possibly a different ECM, injector drivers, etc. Don't worry
> about finding one of those in a parts-yard. You probably won't.
>
> Beau
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
> Of Aphelion79
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:57 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>
> Also,
> http://www.holley.com/types/Commander%20950%20and%20Pro-Jection%20TBI%20Serv
> ice%20Parts.asp
>
>
> Part #: 17-41
>
>
> Commander 950 and Pro-Jection TBI Service Parts
> 
> > ervice%5FParts.asp>
>
> Is this the correct one for a Chevy 350?
>
> Also, I have a 4-barrel carburetor on there... I see that Holly makes a 
> 4bbl TBI... is this "normal" (i.e. stock? more power than the 
> carburetor?) I also don't see an adapter for the 4bbl TBI... Although if 
> 2bbl is stock and is what I'm going to find at the Junkyard, please let 
> me know not to worry about the TBI being 4bbl or 2bbl!
>
> Aphelion79 wrote:
> 
>> Not to sound ignorant, however much I may be on the topic, what 
>> exactly is a CAL?
>>
>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>> 
>>> Bob,
>>> If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
>>> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
>>> a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
>>> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago. The
>>> TH400 uses an electric solenoid for the kick-down on the transmission.
>>> On a carb, this is activated by a simple switch that is below the gas
>>> pedal and senses full throttle. On a TBI system, it is controlled by
>>> the computer, which allows you to change the set point. You can
>>> probably re-pin a harness that doesn't have this wire, but that's a
>>> little more difficult. Look for an orange wire that is by itself, near
>>> the firewall on the drivers side. The TH350 and manual trans versions
>>> of the TBI system will not have this wire. The TH350 uses a mechanical
>>> cable for the kickdown, and obviously the manual trans doesn't do
>>> anything.
>>>
>>> Jake
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Aphelion79
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:13 PM
>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>
>>> Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I pull
>>>
>>> the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as 
>>> well right?
>>>
>>> Also one more thing I've thought of...
>>> How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor? Does it
>>>
>>> have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI? 
>>> I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never worried
>>>
>>> about autos! =)
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
>>> problems/concerns about!
>>>
>>> Jay Vessels wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi there!
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>>>>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>>>>> 
>>>> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
>>>> module.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>>>>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum advance,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to 
>>>>> the crankshaft)
>>>>> 
>>>> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does 
>>>> have relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set 
>>>> at a particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that. 
>>>> Since it
>>>> 
>>>> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
>>>> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly where
>>>> 
>>>> the crank is.
>>>>
>>>> I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>>>> 
>>>>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>>>>> sensor is used...
>>>>> 
>>>> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM. The 
>>>> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
>>>> doesn't need it.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>>>>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>>>>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>>>>> 
>>>> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII didn't
>>>>> 
>>>>> start up until 1996? (Dunno where I got that year from, but for some
>>>>> 
>>>>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>>>>> 
>>>> Right on both counts.
>>>>
>>>> Jay Vessels
>>>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>>>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bob,
>>>>>> The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley. As a matter of
>>>>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>>>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs). Holley, and
>>>>>> 
>>> others,
>>> 
>>>>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>>>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jake
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]
>>>>>> 
>>> On
>>> 
>>>>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>>>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello , what is the bolt pattern for 69 Corvette Carter carb. ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>> Bob Norville
>>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gmecm mailing list
>>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>>
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> 
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm


 
---------------------------------
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From jay at vessels-clan.com  Sat Jan 13 08:09:10 2007
From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 09:09:10 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A87148.1070302@cox.net>
References: <45a7ca94.4d4ed86e.1bb1.ffff9ae5@mx.google.com>
	<45A87148.1070302@cox.net>
Message-ID: <45A8E806.5080801@vessels-clan.com>

Hi there!

The advice was to change the MEM-CAL

CAL is shorthand for MEM-CAL (or calibration, depending on who you ask). 
   Many people call them "chips".  It's the replaceable memory (EPROM) 
in the ECM that for the TBI ECMs we're discussing is located behind a 
small removable panel on the ECM.

These parts are referenced by their "broadcast code" or BCC.  This is 
the 3 or 4 letter designation given to identify a specific cal.

Does anyone have a specific BCC in mind for a TBI 350/TH400?  It sounds 
like there's one on the server, which you could just burn into an EPROM 
(2732) yourself.  If you go this route, and need help, just let us know.

Another choice is to try your GM dealer and buy a replacement cal for a 
vehicle that is the closest to what you've got.  You'll need to do some 
digging to find the right vehicle so you'll know what to ask for (i.e. 
"1988 fullsize truck, 2WD 350V8 3-speed auto with Federal emissions" 
That's just an example -- I don't know if that particular truck even 
exists so don't use my example to try to buy anything).  A *good* GM 
dealer parts counter will work with you on this a bit to help you find 
the right part but you should go in there with a decent idea of what 
you're after.

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)

Aphelion79 wrote:
> Oh okay so the 2bbl TBI was stock, that clears that up... :)  I figured 
> the 4bbl was some fancy thing by Holly... thanks for all the information 
> everyone, I'm still lost as to what a "CAL" is when I was asking about 
> the Transmission earlier:
> 
> "If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
> 
> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
> a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago."



From jktucker at usamedia.tv  Sat Jan 13 08:52:47 2007
From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Jake Tucker)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 06:52:47 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <45A70565.1030107@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000001c73722$83d5c870$0200a8c0@office>

Bob,
	As others have noted, the CAL I was referring to is basically
the program on the PROM chip.  With the right hardware, you can burn
your own chip and tune the engine as necessary.  If you are starting
with a 350 and a TH400 transmission, you will want to use as close a
program as you can find.  The CAL I used was ACSK.  I couldn't find it
on the server anymore, so I uploaded it again.  It is at:

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming 

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Aphelion79
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 7:50 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?

Not to sound ignorant, however much I may be on the topic, what exactly 
is a CAL?

Jake Tucker wrote:
> Bob,
>     If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to
find
> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL
from
> a TH400.  If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago.  The
> TH400 uses an electric solenoid for the kick-down on the transmission.
> On a carb, this is activated by a simple switch that is below the gas
> pedal and senses full throttle.  On a TBI system, it is controlled by
> the computer, which allows you to change the set point.  You can
> probably re-pin a harness that doesn't have this wire, but that's a
> little more difficult.  Look for an orange wire that is by itself,
near
> the firewall on the drivers side.  The TH350 and manual trans versions
> of the TBI system will not have this wire.  The TH350 uses a
mechanical
> cable for the kickdown, and obviously the manual trans doesn't do
> anything.
>
> Jake
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
> Behalf Of Aphelion79
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:13 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>
> Ok, so that means I will need the distributor from the truck that I
pull
>
> the TBI, harness, and ECM out of (and all accompanying sensors) as
well 
> right?
>
> Also one more thing I've thought of...
> How does the TH400 transmission work with the stock carburetor?  Does
it
>
> have anything to do with it? If so, how does this work with the TBI?  
> I've only messed with manual transmissions in my lifetime, never
worried
>
> about autos! =)
>
> Thanks for all the help, thats about all I can think of that I'd have 
> problems/concerns about!
>
> Jay Vessels wrote:
>   
>> Hi there!
>>
>>     
>>> I was wondering if the TBI systems used on the '87+ Truck 350s were 
>>> fuel only, or did they control timing as well?
>>>       
>> They controlled the timing as well, through the distributor ignition 
>> module.
>>
>>     
>>> On the GM 151 4cyls I've had experience with they used a computer 
>>> controlled timing curve (basically the same idea as a vacuum
advance,
>>>       
>
>   
>>> I.E. the computer has NO idea where the timing is in relation to the

>>> crankshaft)
>>>       
>> The ECM doesn't have absolute position of the crank, but it does have

>> relative position in that it trusts that the distributor is set at a 
>> particular static timing position, and it adjusts from that.  Since
it
>>     
>
>   
>> is not doing individual cylinder timing adjustments and is not doing 
>> sequential fuel injector firing it does not need to know exactly
where
>>     
>
>   
>> the crank is.
>>
>>   I also know of other types of engines using complete timing
>>     
>>> control where the use of a crankshaft positioning sensor / knock 
>>> sensor is used...
>>>       
>> Many GM DIS systems don't provide crank position to the ECM.  The 
>> ignition module has that data but doesn't pass it on since the ECM 
>> doesn't need it.
>>
>>     
>>> Also, for an O2 sensor, do you need one for each "side" of the 
>>> engine? (Where as my previous knowledge is I4 and I6's, I only have 
>>> one exhaust manifold! =D )
>>>       
>> For this system (older TBI) there is only one sensor.
>>
>>     
>>> Also these systems are all OBDI, because to my knowledge OBDII
didn't
>>>       
>
>   
>>> start up until 1996?  (Dunno where I got that year from, but for
some
>>>       
>
>   
>>> reason it comes to mind, lol.)
>>>       
>> Right on both counts.
>>
>> Jay Vessels
>> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
>> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Thanks for the support everyone!
>>>
>>> Jake Tucker wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Bob,
>>>>     The Carter is a square bore, just like a Holley.  As a matter
of
>>>> fact, I believe the only stock spread bore carb was a quadrajet
>>>> (although that was almost all GM 4 barrel carbs).  Holley, and
>>>>         
> others,
>   
>>>> do make a spread bore replacement, but the OEM carbs that weren't
>>>> quadrajets were all square bores.
>>>>
>>>> Jake
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]
>>>>         
> On
>   
>>>> Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:45 AM
>>>> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hello , what is the bolt pattern for  69 Corvette Carter carb.  ??
>>>>
>>>>  thanks
>>>>  Bob Norville
>>>>         
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
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>
>   
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From knight002 at go2.pl  Sat Jan 13 10:57:09 2007
From: knight002 at go2.pl (Lukasz Warzecha)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:57:09 +0100
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
References: <45a7ca94.4d4ed86e.1bb1.ffff9ae5@mx.google.com><45A87148.1070302@cox.net>
	<45A8E806.5080801@vessels-clan.com>
Message-ID: <000401c73733$dfa794b0$2405100a@actina>

Maybe this will help somehow:
http://www.usol.com/~okfoz/88/promcodes.htm

Regards

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jay Vessels" <jay at vessels-clan.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?


> Hi there!
>
> The advice was to change the MEM-CAL
>
> CAL is shorthand for MEM-CAL (or calibration, depending on who you ask). 
> Many people call them "chips".  It's the replaceable memory (EPROM) in the 
> ECM that for the TBI ECMs we're discussing is located behind a small 
> removable panel on the ECM.
>
> These parts are referenced by their "broadcast code" or BCC.  This is the 
> 3 or 4 letter designation given to identify a specific cal.
>
> Does anyone have a specific BCC in mind for a TBI 350/TH400?  It sounds 
> like there's one on the server, which you could just burn into an EPROM 
> (2732) yourself.  If you go this route, and need help, just let us know.
>
> Another choice is to try your GM dealer and buy a replacement cal for a 
> vehicle that is the closest to what you've got.  You'll need to do some 
> digging to find the right vehicle so you'll know what to ask for (i.e. 
> "1988 fullsize truck, 2WD 350V8 3-speed auto with Federal emissions" 
> That's just an example -- I don't know if that particular truck even 
> exists so don't use my example to try to buy anything).  A *good* GM 
> dealer parts counter will work with you on this a bit to help you find the 
> right part but you should go in there with a decent idea of what you're 
> after.
>
> Jay Vessels
> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)
>
> Aphelion79 wrote:
>> Oh okay so the 2bbl TBI was stock, that clears that up... :)  I figured 
>> the 4bbl was some fancy thing by Holly... thanks for all the information 
>> everyone, I'm still lost as to what a "CAL" is when I was asking about 
>> the Transmission earlier:
>>
>> "If you are going to use a TH400 transmission, you will want to find
>>
>> a wiring harness from a truck equipped with the TH400 and use a CAL from
>> a TH400. If you can't find the CAL, let me know and I can tell you
>> which one I used that I uploaded to the server several years ago."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> 




From BNRVL at aol.com  Sat Jan 13 11:26:17 2007
From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:26:17 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
Message-ID: <c88.7fc4180.32da7039@aol.com>



 Hello Jake , I will use the 350 auto presently in my 33 Dodge truck , as it 
only has some   3-5,000  since rebuild an works OK . Eventually I will add a 
700 R4 ,with a lock-up torque converter , and another rear ratio , as the 
present Duster 2:46:1 will not hndle the OD trans. , as I would have to get up to 
75 for it to kick in , so that's no good in the City driving  scenerio .

  I want to try and use the 69 corvette intake , if possible with an adaptor 
for the TBI . Do you think this will work ??
 I will begin to look for a  1988-92 GM an or Pick-up truck for a donor 
vehicle  . Pull all parts needed and transfer them to my  33 Dodge Truck . Do you 
think that Walter Chjrysler will object to ELECTRIONICS on a 33 Dodge Pick-em 
up ??  WOW what a great time we all live in today , now if we could just 
resolve the crazy Iraq situation and bring our Guys and Gals back home to America  
.Such a gross loss of  Lives for those poeple who have never known where they 
are going or been .

  have a nice week-end , and thank you very much for your kind help to this 
Old Man  .

 Do you know of a road map for TBI conversion online ??

 Thanks

 Bob Norville



From red83brick at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 13 16:12:23 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:12:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <c88.7fc4180.32da7039@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20070113221223.49995.qmail@web61020.mail.yahoo.com>

I would use a TBI harness from a later model 1993-1995 Vehicle and use a 4L60E.   That way you can burn your own chips and adjust the shift points accordingly.   2.46:1 with OD is not a problem in a lighter vehicle with relatively short tires (aka Hotrod).   My Cadillac had a 307/2004r/2.53 gears.  My Fullsize van has 3.08 gears with its TBI 350/700r4 combo.   The new Nissan Titans will run about 1,600 rpm @ 60 mph in their top OD of their 5 spd automatic and return better than 20 mpg on the highway with their 5.6 liter V8.   The 350 TBI makes great low-speed torque and will cruise all day just off-idle.  I can pull some pretty good hills at 45 mph in OD with the converter locked in the Van.

BNRVL at aol.com wrote:  

Hello Jake , I will use the 350 auto presently in my 33 Dodge truck , as it 
only has some 3-5,000 since rebuild an works OK . Eventually I will add a 
700 R4 ,with a lock-up torque converter , and another rear ratio , as the 
present Duster 2:46:1 will not hndle the OD trans. , as I would have to get up to 
75 for it to kick in , so that's no good in the City driving scenerio .

I want to try and use the 69 corvette intake , if possible with an adaptor 
for the TBI . Do you think this will work ??
I will begin to look for a 1988-92 GM an or Pick-up truck for a donor 
vehicle . Pull all parts needed and transfer them to my 33 Dodge Truck . Do you 
think that Walter Chjrysler will object to ELECTRIONICS on a 33 Dodge Pick-em 
up ?? WOW what a great time we all live in today , now if we could just 
resolve the crazy Iraq situation and bring our Guys and Gals back home to America 
.Such a gross loss of Lives for those poeple who have never known where they 
are going or been .

have a nice week-end , and thank you very much for your kind help to this 
Old Man .

Do you know of a road map for TBI conversion online ??

Thanks

Bob Norville

_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm


 
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

From galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net  Sat Jan 13 17:03:07 2007
From: galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net (Jason M.)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:03:07 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
References: <20070113221223.49995.qmail@web61020.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <005801c73766$fdf87960$6601a8c0@BILLYBOB>

Just throwing in my experience with a low number rear gear and 700r4.

The vehicle is a 1982 caprice, 1973 oldsmobile 350 4bbl, edelbrock performer 
intake, 450 cfm holley (aftermarket replacement for mid 60's ford galaxie), 
1984 700r4 from a trans am, 2.56:1 limited slip rear from '86 caprice.  Body 
has been converted to 2 door el camino style vehicle with 4'' chopped top. 
it weighs approx. 4200 pounds, frame behind the rear axle was replaced with 
2x4'' 1/4'' thick steel tubing.

The torque converter is activated with a manual switch, and is deactivated 
with the brake light switch when the brakes are applied, and with the 
internal 3/4 shift switch that disengages the TCC during 3-4 and 4-3 shifts 
(it's stock in most 700r4's

In operation I usually leave the TCC switch on all the time after the engine 
warms up to ~150-160F.  Driving around town it can be in 3rd with the torque 
converter locked by 20mph and still accelerate.  Soonest overdrive will 
engage is 35mph.  So at 25mph engine rpm is about 900, at 35 mph engine rpm 
is about 800, idle rpm is 500 in and out of gear.  So I drive around town in 
over drive with the TCC locked all day.

Usually city fuel mileage is between 18-20, highway is usually between 
20-24.  Have seen 26mpg a few times.

1/4 mile times: 15.91sec 88.5mph.  that was with a slipping 2-4 band.  Right 
after Christmas a new band a "corvette" servo was installed.  Would expect 
something like a 15.8x time 89-90mph.

Anyways if your engine is making a lot of low end torque 2.40 rear gears 
won't be a big deal.  I would say change it over as soon as possible. 
Getting that T350 out of my car was the best thing I've ever done to it, or 
maybe it was the camaro bucket seats so I didn't have to duck my head down 
with that 4'' chop.

Jason.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Reynolds" <red83brick at yahoo.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?


>I would use a TBI harness from a later model 1993-1995 Vehicle and use a 
>4L60E.   That way you can burn your own chips and adjust the shift points 
>accordingly.   2.46:1 with OD is not a problem in a lighter vehicle with 
>relatively short tires (aka Hotrod).   My Cadillac had a 307/2004r/2.53 
>gears.  My Fullsize van has 3.08 gears with its TBI 350/700r4 combo.   The 
>new Nissan Titans will run about 1,600 rpm @ 60 mph in their top OD of 
>their 5 spd automatic and return better than 20 mpg on the highway with 
>their 5.6 liter V8.   The 350 TBI makes great low-speed torque and will 
>cruise all day just off-idle.  I can pull some pretty good hills at 45 mph 
>in OD with the converter locked in the Van.
>
> BNRVL at aol.com wrote:
>
> Hello Jake , I will use the 350 auto presently in my 33 Dodge truck , as 
> it
> only has some 3-5,000 since rebuild an works OK . Eventually I will add a
> 700 R4 ,with a lock-up torque converter , and another rear ratio , as the
> present Duster 2:46:1 will not hndle the OD trans. , as I would have to 
> get up to
> 75 for it to kick in , so that's no good in the City driving scenerio .




From jktucker at usamedia.tv  Sat Jan 13 23:26:28 2007
From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Jake Tucker)
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:26:28 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <c88.7fc4180.32da7039@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7379c$8f71bc50$0200a8c0@office>

Bob,
	Well, I believe that your '69 corvette intake will work with an
adaptor to the TBI throttle body.  The vast majority of all carburetors
that I know of are either spread bore or square bore, and Holley makes
adaptors for both.  In a previous post, somebody mentioned that the
thermoquad carter carburetors were spread bore.  The ones I was familiar
with were AFB's, which were square bore.  If the secondaries are larger
than the primaries, then you have a spread bore manifold.  I do know of
a Rochester carb used in a '65 impala motor that was not spread bore,
but I don't believe it matched the holley square bore pattern either.
Now, if for some reason your manifold is not either square bore or
spread bore, then you can still have a machinist make an adapter.  It's
not going to be cheap, but all you need is an aluminum plate made out of
3/4" stock, with the correct bolt pattern on either side.  A machinist
should be able to measure a throttle body and your manifold to make a
custom adapter.
	As far as a recipe book goes for how to make the conversion, I
haven't seen one that really covered it.  Most articles I've seen about
it suggest using a painless harness or some other aftermarket harness.
That is definitely the easiest way to do it, and since it supports their
advertisers it makes a lot of sense.  I bought the TPI swap book several
years ago, but it really didn't have a lot of useful information in it.
I learned most of what I needed by doing searches on the internet.
	If you have specific questions, I'll answer them when I can
help.  I have done several injection conversions, including a TBI, TPI,
and two Vortec conversions, and have hit several pitfalls along the way.
I've also installed a couple of Holley Pro-jection systems early on, and
found them to be very disappointing.  Careful planning can make the swap
go very smoothly.  The other key is to try to get all components from
the same vehicle to avoid any mismatched parts.
    Good luck on your project.




-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of BNRVL at aol.com
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:26 AM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?



 Hello Jake , I will use the 350 auto presently in my 33 Dodge truck ,
as it 
only has some   3-5,000  since rebuild an works OK . Eventually I will
add a 
700 R4 ,with a lock-up torque converter , and another rear ratio , as
the 
present Duster 2:46:1 will not hndle the OD trans. , as I would have to
get up to 
75 for it to kick in , so that's no good in the City driving  scenerio .

  I want to try and use the 69 corvette intake , if possible with an
adaptor 
for the TBI . Do you think this will work ??
 I will begin to look for a  1988-92 GM an or Pick-up truck for a donor 
vehicle  . Pull all parts needed and transfer them to my  33 Dodge Truck
. Do you 
think that Walter Chjrysler will object to ELECTRIONICS on a 33 Dodge
Pick-em 
up ??  WOW what a great time we all live in today , now if we could just

resolve the crazy Iraq situation and bring our Guys and Gals back home
to America  
.Such a gross loss of  Lives for those poeple who have never known where
they 
are going or been .

  have a nice week-end , and thank you very much for your kind help to
this 
Old Man  .

 Do you know of a road map for TBI conversion online ??

 Thanks

 Bob Norville

_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Sun Jan 14 13:30:03 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:30:03 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783018FE7B7@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jake Tucker
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:53 AM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
> 
> Bob,
> 	As others have noted, the CAL I was referring to is 
> basically the program on the PROM chip.  With the right 
> hardware, you can burn your own chip and tune the engine as 
> necessary.  If you are starting with a 350 and a TH400 
> transmission, you will want to use as close a program as you 
> can find.  The CAL I used was ACSK.  I couldn't find it on 
> the server anymore, so I uploaded it again.  It is at:
> 
> ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming 

When uploading files, try to use the wiki instead of the FTP site.  It's
easier for you and me.  There's already a scratch area for uploading
files, for bins a dedicated page could be made.

--steve



From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Sun Jan 14 23:47:56 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 23:47:56 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783018FE7E8@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of 
> kenneth.zink at hotmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:30 AM
> To: syty at syty.org; S-Series; V8 S-Series; GM ECM; H-A-S-T-E
> Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
> 
> I will be needing to install my SyTy speedo soon into my S10 
> blazer but need to calibrate it for a V8 first.  Can anybody 
> tell me which resistors I need to change and what they need to be?

Did you mean tach?

I don't know for sure but I think the answer is in the S-10 V8
conversion manual from jagsthatrun.com.  Or, there's an S-10 v8 forum,
v8s10.com or s10v8.com or something like that, the answer may be there
also.

--steve


From kenneth.zink at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 15 00:06:03 2007
From: kenneth.zink at hotmail.com (kenneth.zink at hotmail.com)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 00:06:03 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783018FE7E8@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <BAY117-DAV17368E0DBD0A24FA32842080B50@phx.gbl>

Yes I did, and thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ravet" <Steve.Ravet at arm.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, 14 January, 2007 23:47
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration



> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of 
> kenneth.zink at hotmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:30 AM
> To: syty at syty.org; S-Series; V8 S-Series; GM ECM; H-A-S-T-E
> Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
> 
> I will be needing to install my SyTy speedo soon into my S10 
> blazer but need to calibrate it for a V8 first.  Can anybody 
> tell me which resistors I need to change and what they need to be?

Did you mean tach?

I don't know for sure but I think the answer is in the S-10 V8
conversion manual from jagsthatrun.com.  Or, there's an S-10 v8 forum,
v8s10.com or s10v8.com or something like that, the answer may be there
also.

--steve
_______________________________________________
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Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm 


From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 15 14:27:11 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:27:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
Message-ID: <579466.28078.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello Bob,

If you can get a donor car that's complete, you are
very lucky.  If not, use a site like kemparts.com to
find interchangeable parts.  

The way it works is to first find the part number that
would fit the donor car, and then use their "Buyer's
Guide Plus" to list every make and model (not just GM)
that used that part.  

It's amazing how many parts are cross platform, even
between makes!

It's nice to find the part you need is on all of the
Cavaliers in the wrecker, so you don't need to find
that exact model of G Van or whatever!

Duncan

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling? 
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/


From aphelion79 at cox.net  Mon Jan 15 15:42:29 2007
From: aphelion79 at cox.net (Aphelion79)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:42:29 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Chevy 350 Carburated to TBI / TPI?
In-Reply-To: <579466.28078.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <579466.28078.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45ABF545.9050300@cox.net>

Very useful information, thanks a bunch!

Cowen wrote:
> Hello Bob,
>
> If you can get a donor car that's complete, you are
> very lucky.  If not, use a site like kemparts.com to
> find interchangeable parts.  
>
> The way it works is to first find the part number that
> would fit the donor car, and then use their "Buyer's
> Guide Plus" to list every make and model (not just GM)
> that used that part.  
>
> It's amazing how many parts are cross platform, even
> between makes!
>
> It's nice to find the part you need is on all of the
> Cavaliers in the wrecker, so you don't need to find
> that exact model of G Van or whatever!
>
> Duncan
>
> **********************END TRANSMISSION**********************
>
>
>  
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> TV dinner still cooling? 
> Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>   


From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Mon Jan 15 16:06:04 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:06:04 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783018FE845@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of 
> kenneth.zink at hotmail.com
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:06 AM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
> 
> Yes I did, and thank you.

I found my JTR manual, it covers tachs from '82-'90, three different
PCBs, and 3 different capacitors to replace.  It has pictures and
arrows, so you really have to see it to understand.  Unfortunately I
don't have a way to scan or post it.

--steve



From red83brick at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 16 00:26:05 2007
From: red83brick at yahoo.com (Chris Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:26:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
In-Reply-To: <BAY117-DAV17368E0DBD0A24FA32842080B50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <919226.25663.qm@web61024.mail.yahoo.com>

I did the SYTY cluster into my S15 GMC Jimmy.  You will need to repin over to the SYTY connector and add a couple of wires.   It has been a while since I did it, but it was not that hard to figure out with both wiring diagrams in front of me.   The details are a little fuzzy in my memory, but IIRC you have to add a wire to the MAP sensor for the Vacuum/Boost gauge to function.   It also has to be running on a 2 bar MAP to be accurate.   Mine was running a turbo 3.4 with a reprogrammed 749 so it already had the 2 bar MAP.  I know that I also had to run 1 wire to the coil for the tach as well.

kenneth.zink at hotmail.com wrote:  Yes I did, and thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Ravet" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, 14 January, 2007 23:47
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration



> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of 
> kenneth.zink at hotmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 10:30 AM
> To: syty at syty.org; S-Series; V8 S-Series; GM ECM; H-A-S-T-E
> Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
> 
> I will be needing to install my SyTy speedo soon into my S10 
> blazer but need to calibrate it for a V8 first. Can anybody 
> tell me which resistors I need to change and what they need to be?

Did you mean tach?

I don't know for sure but I think the answer is in the S-10 V8
conversion manual from jagsthatrun.com. Or, there's an S-10 v8 forum,
v8s10.com or s10v8.com or something like that, the answer may be there
also.

--steve
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always stay connected to friends.

From BNRVL at aol.com  Tue Jan 16 11:43:19 2007
From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:43:19 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
Message-ID: <51e.5ff346e8.32de68b7@aol.com>



  Hello Steve , I am ready to tackle the mechanics of the TBI Low Budget 
Injection  conversion , but Must admit I know nothing about burning chips , nor 
have  the necessary equipment to do it  with .

 I am going to thre Advance Auto Parts today to see if they have a Holley 
17-41 TB unit adaptor to mate the TB to my Corvette intake manifold , and perhaps 
they can point me to some one here that can help in the tuning area , as I 
know my 69 350 will have to be addressed , since the insides are different from 
the factory GM engine .

 I plan to run my 350 automatic and Duster 2:46"1 rear end first till all of 
the bugs get worked out ,then go for the 700 R 4 OD trans .  As some one 
online told me that the truck is light weight enough to work OK 
  In your opinion which year GM vehicle , considering the 700 R 4 change down 
the road , as my Transmission guy told me he can make the 350 and a lock-up 
torque converter work , with some toggle switches until I replace the 350 with 
the 700R 4 , later .

 Looks like I am going to have to get me a job to fund this experiment .

  You have really been an inspiration to me on this project , and I 
especially appreciate your patience and toleration with me and my silly dumb questions 
, but I have thanks to you and others I  do have a more working knowledge 
about this endeavor , since our first email , altho there is still a lot of mud in 
these waters , but I worked with Engineers on my job , and I know they do not 
design mistakes on purpose  , and you folks are in that league in my opinion 
. I still plan to follow the  Low- Dollar Injection plan , as this is the best 
one composit I have seen so far .  I sure wish Street 
rodder would give me Doc Frohmader and mike Moeller's email , so I could 
contact them both for addition help ,  but they will not respond .

 Thank You Again

  Bob Norville

   Bob Norville


From galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 16 15:48:22 2007
From: galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net (Jason M.)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:48:22 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year
References: <51e.5ff346e8.32de68b7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <004801c739b8$0cc7b9d0$6601a8c0@BILLYBOB>

it's roughly 88 or 89 up is the "better" years for 700r4/4L60 transmissions. 
More vanes in the pumps and supposedly little design changes that make the 
internals stronger.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BNRVL at aol.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration


> the road , as my Transmission guy told me he can make the 350 and a 
> lock-up
> torque converter work , with some toggle switches until I replace the 350 
> with
> the 700R 4 , later .




From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 16 21:09:49 2007
From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:09:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year
Message-ID: <20070117030949.88863.qmail@web80513.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

isn't it mid '87 they changed, I know I've an '87 w/ the better TC, has different splines if I remember??


----- Original Message ----
From: Jason M. <galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net>
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:48:22 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year


it's roughly 88 or 89 up is the "better" years for 700r4/4L60 transmissions. 
More vanes in the pumps and supposedly little design changes that make the 
internals stronger.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BNRVL at aol.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration


> the road , as my Transmission guy told me he can make the 350 and a 
> lock-up
> torque converter work , with some toggle switches until I replace the 350 
> with
> the 700R 4 , later .


_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm

From galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jan 16 21:36:50 2007
From: galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net (Jason M.)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:36:50 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year
References: <20070117030949.88863.qmail@web80513.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001801c739e8$c7c7e270$6a01a8c0@BILLYBOB>

Was just going off general memory, it is '87.  looks like 85 would have been 
the spline change.

This page has some good information. 
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/th700r4.htm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick McLeod" <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] 700r4 year


isn't it mid '87 they changed, I know I've an '87 w/ the better TC, has 
different splines if I remember??


----- Original Message ----
From: Jason M. <galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net>
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:48:22 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year


it's roughly 88 or 89 up is the "better" years for 700r4/4L60 transmissions.
More vanes in the pumps and supposedly little design changes that make the
internals stronger.






From craig.moates at cox.net  Wed Jan 17 00:07:44 2007
From: craig.moates at cox.net (Craig Moates)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:07:44 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year
In-Reply-To: <004801c739b8$0cc7b9d0$6601a8c0@BILLYBOB>
Message-ID: <20070117060843.DTSC11822.centrmmtao05.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net>

Yes, that's right. Mid 87 changed the pump vanes from 7 to 10, and also
auxiliary valve body changes. The 88+ are the way to go, but you can upgrade
the 87- to some extent if needed. Typical upgrades are the corvette servo,
10 vane pump, and extra clutch packs (truck duty).

Best regards,
Craig Moates
 

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Jason M.
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:48 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year

it's roughly 88 or 89 up is the "better" years for 700r4/4L60 transmissions.

More vanes in the pumps and supposedly little design changes that make the 
internals stronger.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <BNRVL at aol.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration


> the road , as my Transmission guy told me he can make the 350 and a 
> lock-up
> torque converter work , with some toggle switches until I replace the 350 
> with
> the 700R 4 , later .


_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From lwester at lincsat.com  Wed Jan 17 19:58:42 2007
From: lwester at lincsat.com (Programmer)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:58:42 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year
References: <20070117060843.DTSC11822.centrmmtao05.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net>
Message-ID: <000e01c73aa4$380aade0$0200a8c0@WESTER2>

If I may interject...

There are 13 vane pumps available, regulator mods to the pump,  '10 stack' 
3/4 packs from the factory 5-6, HD sprags from the 4L60E and 4L65E, as well 
as better sunshell builds that don't break. Choosing a good 2/4 band as well 
as servo definitely helps.

The lockup is simple enough to wire--as it relys on the pressure switches to 
complete the circuit. You can have automatic locking in 3rd and 4th, 
depending on how you wire it. The factory uses a different switch on the 
brake to go 'open circuit' when the brake is applied to disengage the TCC 
circuit.

As Craig mentioned, I wouldn't even look at a pre 1988 trans.

Lyndon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig Moates" <craig.moates at cox.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] 700r4 year


> Yes, that's right. Mid 87 changed the pump vanes from 7 to 10, and also
> auxiliary valve body changes. The 88+ are the way to go, but you can 
> upgrade
> the 87- to some extent if needed. Typical upgrades are the corvette servo,
> 10 vane pump, and extra clutch packs (truck duty).
>
> Best regards,
> Craig Moates
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Jason M.
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 3:48 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Gmecm] 700r4 year
>
> it's roughly 88 or 89 up is the "better" years for 700r4/4L60 
> transmissions.
>
> More vanes in the pumps and supposedly little design changes that make the
> internals stronger.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <BNRVL at aol.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration
>
>
>> the road , as my Transmission guy told me he can make the 350 and a
>> lock-up
>> torque converter work , with some toggle switches until I replace the 350
>> with
>> the 700R 4 , later .
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm 



From kenneth.zink at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 17 21:45:54 2007
From: kenneth.zink at hotmail.com (Kenneth Zink)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 21:45:54 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Some stuff up on eBay.
Message-ID: <BAY117-W488559B85D2032908D3BA80AA0@phx.gbl>

For those that are interested, I have some stuff up on eBay.
 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZblazen_firestormQQhtZ-1Kenneth R Zink II

From BNRVL at aol.com  Thu Jan 18 15:37:55 2007
From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:37:55 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] Some stuff up on eBay.
Message-ID: <ce3.777a893.32e142b3@aol.com>

  Hello Kenneth , I got the message that this page can not be displayed ??  
This is for your parts for sale 


 Thanks 


 Bob Norville


From BNRVL at aol.com  Thu Jan 18 15:48:21 2007
From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:48:21 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] Some stuff up on eBay.
Message-ID: <c95.7921952.32e14525@aol.com>

 Still can not see the parts
 thanks

 Bob Norville


From harford at gmail.com  Thu Jan 18 15:50:39 2007
From: harford at gmail.com (Alex Harford)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:50:39 -0800
Subject: [Gmecm] Some stuff up on eBay.
In-Reply-To: <BAY117-W488559B85D2032908D3BA80AA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY117-W488559B85D2032908D3BA80AA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <f9d2dfc50701181350p2b923e61m6870989eaceaad3@mail.gmail.com>

Something got munged in your link:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZblazenQ5ffirestorm

On 1/17/07, Kenneth Zink <kenneth.zink at hotmail.com> wrote:
> For those that are interested, I have some stuff up on eBay.
>
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZblazen_firestormQQhtZ-1Kenneth R Zink II_______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 18 17:48:25 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:48:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems... still
Message-ID: <20070118234825.71516.qmail@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

More evidence that it's worth checking the gaskets:

I pulled my sister's Suzuki Sidekick TBI apart last
weekend, and you could see pieces of gasket poking
into the bore about 1cm!  That car however was and is
running perfectly.  The gasket that had died goes
between the air horn and the throttle body proper
(above the throttle plates), so it wouldn't have been
a vacuum leak - just a source of unfiltered air.

Unfortunately, wife's Pontiac Asuna Sunrunner that I
wrote about before has gone back to it's old tricks,
after running flawlessly for about a week.  When I
last worked on it, I was only able to buy one of the
four gaskets on the TB, and I didn't have any gasket
material the night I rushed it back together, so
hopefully another cleaning and 3 new gaskets this
weekend will fix it permanently.

I've always found the updates and "What it was" posts
very interesting, so I thought I'd pass this along.

Duncan

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.
Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com


From carl-otto at usa.net  Thu Jan 18 18:48:43 2007
From: carl-otto at usa.net (CARL-OTTO RUSTAD)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 01:48:43 +0100
Subject: [Gmecm] Some stuff up on eBay.
Message-ID: <852Lasavr0136S06.1169167723@cmsweb06.cms.usa.net>

Kenneth!
Nothing wrong with the link.
Your stuff popped up right away,
and the following heading was seen:
Items for Sale by blazen_firestorm;
Carl.

------ Original Message ------
Received: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 04:46:05 AM CET
From: Kenneth Zink <kenneth.zink at hotmail.com>
To: GM ECM <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Subject: [Gmecm] Some stuff up on eBay.

For those that are interested, I have some stuff up on eBay.
 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZblazen_firestormQQhtZ-1Kenneth R Zink
II_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm






From mikereeh at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 21 22:39:22 2007
From: mikereeh at yahoo.com (mike reeh)
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:39:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] introduction, and 4L80E questions...
Message-ID: <277133.4822.qm@web60523.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello I just subscribed to this forum.. been lurking for many years, off and on, now I have a real reason to subscribe and enter the discussions....
   
  heres my scenario: Im putting together a project truck ('77 GMC K25) with a 4L80E trans... I got the trans from a '91 suburban, and I also got the factory ECM for the same vehicle.. Has anybody used this stock ecm to control JUST the transmission control function? I will not be using the TBI or anything else, Im only interested in controlling the 4L80E and possibly having some means by which to modify shift points, TCC, etc...
   
  I already bought a TCI standalone controller- BUT Im still very interested in using this GM ecm. I can always get my $500 back out of the TCI box, if I can get the stock ECM to work here... It will be a couple of months before I put the transmission into the truck, so time is what I have.. Any ideas? 
   
  thanks,
  mike reeh

 
---------------------------------
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
 Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.

From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jan 23 20:05:52 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:05:52 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] introduction, and 4L80E questions...
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830195341B@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

Maybe it would work to hook up the relevant inputs to the computer (TPS,
RPM, VSS, ?) but only use the transmission related outputs.  Tunercat
should have a calibration editor for this that you could use to tune
shift points and turn off engine related trouble codes.

--steve 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of mike reeh
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:39 PM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Gmecm] introduction, and 4L80E questions...
> 
> Hello I just subscribed to this forum.. been lurking for many 
> years, off and on, now I have a real reason to subscribe and 
> enter the discussions....
>    
>   heres my scenario: Im putting together a project truck ('77 
> GMC K25) with a 4L80E trans... I got the trans from a '91 
> suburban, and I also got the factory ECM for the same 
> vehicle.. Has anybody used this stock ecm to control JUST the 
> transmission control function? I will not be using the TBI or 
> anything else, Im only interested in controlling the 4L80E 
> and possibly having some means by which to modify shift 
> points, TCC, etc...
>    
>   I already bought a TCI standalone controller- BUT Im still 
> very interested in using this GM ecm. I can always get my 
> $500 back out of the TCI box, if I can get the stock ECM to 
> work here... It will be a couple of months before I put the 
> transmission into the truck, so time is what I have.. Any ideas? 
>    
>   thanks,
>   mike reeh
> 
>  
> ---------------------------------
> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
>  Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 


From craig.moates at cox.net  Wed Jan 24 00:37:11 2007
From: craig.moates at cox.net (Craig Moates)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:37:11 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Virtual Com Port VPW Board
In-Reply-To: <20070113050617.JMHY15326.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <20070124063820.NWLX15326.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>

Folks,

I've updated the VirtualCom_VPW project to include a photo of the most
recent, first-run, partial assembly that I have in hand. Still waiting on
some parts, and need to move the 4-pin connector slightly to avoid
interference with enclosure snaps. Fitment looks good, and I haven't found
any glaring mistakes yet. 

http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/VirtualComVPW

I've got some 'simple' firmware that I can flash onto it in ASM, at least to
shake things out, but I'll probably wait and get some C code together for
it. Then on to testing the PC-side communications and then maybe doing some
status checks on the 68HC58. And then onward from there.

Best regards,
Craig Moates
 



From darrenfreed at gmail.com  Wed Jan 24 13:11:09 2007
From: darrenfreed at gmail.com (Darren Freed)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:11:09 +0000
Subject: [Gmecm] Virtual Com Port VPW Board
In-Reply-To: <20070124063820.NWLX15326.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>
References: <20070113050617.JMHY15326.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>
	<20070124063820.NWLX15326.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <f61eb5c30701241111s37e0a996oa013009b3bfd124e@mail.gmail.com>

Looking very good!

Are you planning to sell boards for it?  Do you think the average guy will
be able to solder the components?

Darren



On 1/24/07, Craig Moates <craig.moates at cox.net> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I've updated the VirtualCom_VPW project to include a photo of the most
> recent, first-run, partial assembly that I have in hand. Still waiting on
> some parts, and need to move the 4-pin connector slightly to avoid
> interference with enclosure snaps. Fitment looks good, and I haven't found
> any glaring mistakes yet.
>
> http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/VirtualComVPW
>
> I've got some 'simple' firmware that I can flash onto it in ASM, at least
> to
> shake things out, but I'll probably wait and get some C code together for
> it. Then on to testing the PC-side communications and then maybe doing
> some
> status checks on the 68HC58. And then onward from there.
>
> Best regards,
> Craig Moates
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 24 14:59:55 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:59:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
Message-ID: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Well, it failed AirCare again yesterday.  I am getting
the CO a little lower, but it's still high.  It's
allowed about 12.5 g/km, but it's reading about 14.25
g/km.  All other emissions tested are good.

My mom has the identical car (even color!), and it
passed AirCare on Dec 19th no problem.  So, I've got a
source of known good parts!  Here's what I've done:

-Cleaned/tested EGR
-Cleaned EGR vacuum modulator, then swapped it
-Cleaned/tested PCV
-Cleaned IAT and ECT sensors to ensure connectivity
-Cleaned and greased all engine grounds (4)
-Disassembled and Cleaned Throttle body, blew out all
passages w air, new gaskets
-Set valve lash
-Confirmed good, even compression
-Tried to inspect injector spray pattern w strobe, pod
obstructs view, but no large drops - seems to be a
mist
-Checked Fuel return line - clear of obstruction
-Compared Fuel Press Reg with mom's - couldn't make
either do anything, so at least they're the same.
-Checked purge canister - not flooded w gas
-Checked all vacuum hoses - no leaks, no obstructions
-New plugs, gapped to 0.028"
-Checked base timing.  Strange, I shorted the check
connector as per the VECI, but couldn't affect the
timing.  Have I lost ECM control of timing?  How??
-Swapped cap, wires, rotor, and distributor
-Swapped coil and ignitor
-Swapped TPS
-Swapped O2
-Swapped MAP and MAP line w filter
-Confirmed MAP port on manifold is clean
-Replaced suspect capacitors in ECM
-Swapped ECMs, although I didn't actually run it
through an AirCare test with swapped ECM, because it
didn't feel like it ran any different with Mom's.

Symptoms: Beginning quite abruptly in late August,
abysmal mileage, hesistation/light missing on light
acceleration.  Oh, and has failed Aircare for the same
reason 3 times since Nov 25th!

Strangely enough, I did a ton of work in one day,
including redoing the TB, and it ran PERFECTLY for
about a week!

It runs well otherwise, uses little oil, and has
plenty of power.  What am I missing??  Why does it run
so rich?  

Thanks for any suggestions!

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


 
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From Terminal_Crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk  Wed Jan 24 15:40:37 2007
From: Terminal_Crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk (Terminal Crazy)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:40:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
In-Reply-To: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4eaa679353Terminal_Crazy@sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk>

On 24 Jan, Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com> wrote:


> Strangely enough, I did a ton of work in one day,
> including redoing the TB, and it ran PERFECTLY for
> about a week!

> It runs well otherwise, uses little oil, and has
> plenty of power.  What am I missing??  Why does it run
> so rich?  

Air Filter ?

Unmetered Air ? ( just guessing, I've not played with US TBI)

Is the oil fresh, I've heard that can affect it, though I wouldn't know by
how much ?

Exhaust leak / o2's faulty / aging and slowing down in response.

Sorry can't think of anything else.

I always liked the sound of some alcohol in the tank but again I don't know
how much is needed (or what type).

HTH
Mitch

-- 
Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6          terminal_crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk
Lancashire England          http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/



From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jan 24 16:44:40 2007
From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:44:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
Message-ID: <20070124224440.37736.qmail@web80514.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've had similar problems, traced back to cracked crossover on a V-6, but could be crack in header just as well. It allows air (ox) to be sucked in to exhaust stream, the o2 sensor reads it as way lean, and the computer then trys to 'fix' the problem by squirting more fuel, to no avail, and therefore it really is rich, and therefore fails test machines

just at thought from experience


----- Original Message ----
From: Terminal Crazy <Terminal_Crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk>
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 3:40:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still


On 24 Jan, Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com> wrote:


> Strangely enough, I did a ton of work in one day,
> including redoing the TB, and it ran PERFECTLY for
> about a week!

> It runs well otherwise, uses little oil, and has
> plenty of power.  What am I missing??  Why does it run
> so rich?  

Air Filter ?

Unmetered Air ? ( just guessing, I've not played with US TBI)

Is the oil fresh, I've heard that can affect it, though I wouldn't know by
how much ?

Exhaust leak / o2's faulty / aging and slowing down in response.

Sorry can't think of anything else.

I always liked the sound of some alcohol in the tank but again I don't know
how much is needed (or what type).

HTH
Mitch

-- 
Mitch - 1995 Z28 LT1 M6          terminal_crazy at sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk
Lancashire England          http://www.sand-hill.freeserve.co.uk/terminal_crazy/

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From craig.moates at cox.net  Wed Jan 24 18:40:28 2007
From: craig.moates at cox.net (Craig Moates)
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:40:28 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Virtual Com Port VPW Board
In-Reply-To: <f61eb5c30701241111s37e0a996oa013009b3bfd124e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070125004208.NFSI15326.centrmmtao02.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net>

Yes, I'm sure I'll make boards available as a DIY kit at some point. Right
now I'm using the 0402 components which are fine for me, but others would
probably have a hard time without some practice. Also using SSOP package for
USB/serial converter, so solder wick will be needed regardless. I might
upsize the 0402 stuff a little.

Best regards,
Craig Moates?
-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Darren Freed
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:11 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Virtual Com Port VPW Board

Looking very good!

Are you planning to sell boards for it?  Do you think the average guy will
be able to solder the components?

Darren



On 1/24/07, Craig Moates <craig.moates at cox.net> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I've updated the VirtualCom_VPW project to include a photo of the most
> recent, first-run, partial assembly that I have in hand. Still waiting on
> some parts, and need to move the 4-pin connector slightly to avoid
> interference with enclosure snaps. Fitment looks good, and I haven't found
> any glaring mistakes yet.
>
> http://www.diy-efi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl/Gmecm/VirtualComVPW
>
> I've got some 'simple' firmware that I can flash onto it in ASM, at least
> to
> shake things out, but I'll probably wait and get some C code together for
> it. Then on to testing the PC-side communications and then maybe doing
> some
> status checks on the 68HC58. And then onward from there.
>
> Best regards,
> Craig Moates
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
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From Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca  Thu Jan 25 08:32:34 2007
From: Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Ford, Pat)
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:32:34 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
In-Reply-To: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B9528@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca>

It sounds like you have swaped just about everything but the wiring
harness. In the FSM there is resistance checks you can do from the ECM
end. I'd try that next.
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Cowen
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM
To: Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still

Well, it failed AirCare again yesterday.  I am getting the CO a little
lower, but it's still high.  It's allowed about 12.5 g/km, but it's
reading about 14.25 g/km.  All other emissions tested are good.

My mom has the identical car (even color!), and it passed AirCare on Dec
19th no problem.  So, I've got a source of known good parts!  Here's
what I've done:

-Cleaned/tested EGR
-Cleaned EGR vacuum modulator, then swapped it -Cleaned/tested PCV
-Cleaned IAT and ECT sensors to ensure connectivity -Cleaned and greased
all engine grounds (4) -Disassembled and Cleaned Throttle body, blew out
all passages w air, new gaskets -Set valve lash -Confirmed good, even
compression -Tried to inspect injector spray pattern w strobe, pod
obstructs view, but no large drops - seems to be a mist -Checked Fuel
return line - clear of obstruction -Compared Fuel Press Reg with mom's -
couldn't make either do anything, so at least they're the same.
-Checked purge canister - not flooded w gas -Checked all vacuum hoses -
no leaks, no obstructions -New plugs, gapped to 0.028"
-Checked base timing.  Strange, I shorted the check connector as per the
VECI, but couldn't affect the timing.  Have I lost ECM control of
timing?  How??
-Swapped cap, wires, rotor, and distributor -Swapped coil and ignitor
-Swapped TPS -Swapped O2 -Swapped MAP and MAP line w filter -Confirmed
MAP port on manifold is clean -Replaced suspect capacitors in ECM
-Swapped ECMs, although I didn't actually run it through an AirCare test
with swapped ECM, because it didn't feel like it ran any different with
Mom's.

Symptoms: Beginning quite abruptly in late August, abysmal mileage,
hesistation/light missing on light acceleration.  Oh, and has failed
Aircare for the same reason 3 times since Nov 25th!

Strangely enough, I did a ton of work in one day, including redoing the
TB, and it ran PERFECTLY for about a week!

It runs well otherwise, uses little oil, and has plenty of power.  What
am I missing??  Why does it run so rich?  

Thanks for any suggestions!

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


 
________________________________________________________________________
____________
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From tburkard at thecmmgroup.com  Sat Jan 27 05:05:20 2007
From: tburkard at thecmmgroup.com (Todd Burkard)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 05:05:20 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] TPI E85?
Message-ID: <36A56BDAD8710341AF47C529F3B812D8169464@CMMSVR01.CMM.ds>

This question has probably already been addressed but could someone
point me in the correct direction to read the past posts if there is.

 

Any ideas on running TPI system with E85?

 

Thanks,

Todd Burkard

tburkard at thecmmgroup.com <mailto:tburkard at thecmmgroup.com> 

Project Engineer

The CMM Group, LLC

PO Box 5903 

2071-C Lawrence Drive

De Pere WI 54115

PH: (920)336-9800

FX: (920)336-9797

www.thecmmgroup.com <http://www.thecmmgroup.com> 

 

 

 



From papegoj at telia.com  Sat Jan 27 10:29:18 2007
From: papegoj at telia.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C5ke_Georgsson?=)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:29:18 +0100
Subject: [Gmecm] TPI E85?
In-Reply-To: <36A56BDAD8710341AF47C529F3B812D8169464@CMMSVR01.CMM.ds>
References: <36A56BDAD8710341AF47C529F3B812D8169464@CMMSVR01.CMM.ds>
Message-ID: <45BB7DDE.5020902@telia.com>

Todd Burkard wrote:

>This question has probably already been addressed but could someone
>point me in the correct direction to read the past posts if there is.
>
> 
>
>Any ideas on running TPI system with E85?
>  
>


>No problems . yust ad some pressure to the fuelregulator and perhapps some bigger injectors and it will work fine ,  u can even get a litter "tuffer" on the ignition becuse it?s almuost impossible to get "pings" on E-85 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Gmecm mailing list
>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>
>  
>



From william.lucke at highspeedlink.net  Sat Jan 27 15:09:55 2007
From: william.lucke at highspeedlink.net (William Lucke)
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:09:55 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: TPI E85
Message-ID: <45BBBFA3.4000704@highspeedlink.net>

A friend of mine has a Twin Turbo TPI that he's tuning in right now. He 
plans to run a mix of 93 & E85 instead of race gas. He has 42# injectors 
which will meet is HP needs on gasoline, but not on E85.

He also has an Eagle Talon AWD w/ turbo upgrade & full supporting mods. 
He runs E85 in it and it's a monster. It requires about 40% more fuel 
than gasoline, so you need a LOT of injector to run it, but otherwise it 
ought to run fine.


Will


From davida1 at hiwaay.net  Mon Jan 29 07:50:03 2007
From: davida1 at hiwaay.net (David Allen)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 07:50:03 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] Timing table change needed with CR increase?
Message-ID: <001701c743ac$68f26360$0700a8c0@yancey.com>

  Hey guys, I'm rebuilding a 1989 3800V6 from a LeSabre.  It has the SFI 
system using the 1228253 ECM.
Anyway.  The engine has 370,000 miles and the intake manifold gaskets 
started leaking water into #5 cylinder.  So I tore it down for a rebuild. 
Amazingly little wear.  I would like to improve upon this motor by 
installing flat-top pistons in it.  The rest of the motor will repain stock.
  What is a good general "rule of thumb" for changing spark timing to 
prevent pinging when increasing CR?  Will this be enough of a change to 
necessitate spark changes?  What areas of the table will need the most 
reduction in advance? These are fairly highly-tuned from the factory; but it 
only has 8.5:1 compression. I bet a set of flat top pistons would wake it up 
and help on fuel mileage.
  Any input would be GREATLY appreciated!
Thanks,
David



From Brandon_Tomlinson at baylor.edu  Mon Jan 29 08:10:35 2007
From: Brandon_Tomlinson at baylor.edu (Tomlinson, Brandon B)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:10:35 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] TPI E85?
In-Reply-To: <36A56BDAD8710341AF47C529F3B812D8169464@CMMSVR01.CMM.ds>
Message-ID: <48A479C2CD8B7B4D8AD89CBEDEB5868E07375FCE@FS-EXCHANGE1.baylor.edu>

If I can ever get my bumper cover and hood painted, I will be tuning for
E85. Brandon


-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Todd Burkard
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:05 AM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Gmecm] TPI E85?

This question has probably already been addressed but could someone
point me in the correct direction to read the past posts if there is.

 

Any ideas on running TPI system with E85?

 

Thanks,

Todd Burkard

tburkard at thecmmgroup.com <mailto:tburkard at thecmmgroup.com> 

Project Engineer

The CMM Group, LLC

PO Box 5903 

2071-C Lawrence Drive

De Pere WI 54115

PH: (920)336-9800

FX: (920)336-9797

www.thecmmgroup.com <http://www.thecmmgroup.com> 

 

 

 

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Gmecm at diy-efi.org
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From amech at comcast.net  Wed Jan 31 10:32:07 2007
From: amech at comcast.net (Rsetina)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:32:07 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] 3.1 Turbo wastegate solenoid
Message-ID: <45C0C487.7080501@comcast.net>


I have a problem with a 1990 grand prix ste. The wastegate solenoid 
won't operate. Its grounded by terminal a 18. The tests say it's a bad 
ecm but ive tried  6 different ecms and 2 proms.  What could possibly 
cause this besides a bad Quad driver? Tested solenoid for low resistance 
and current draw tested grounds and power feeds to ecm. all is ok. When 
you jump the aldl terminals all the other solenoids and relays operate.  
What am i missing. Ive owned this car for 12 years first problem i 
couldn't fix. I am a heavy equipment mechanic but used to work for a new 
car dealer and a transmission rebuilder. Thanks for any help  Bob S.



From cletrac at comcast.net  Wed Jan 31 12:41:54 2007
From: cletrac at comcast.net (cletrac at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:41:54 +0000
Subject: [Gmecm] Methanol
Message-ID: <013120071841.27625.45C0E2F200010AC700006BE922007623020C0E9D9B0A040C@comcast.net>

I am trying to set up an Oldsmobile Quad 4 DOHC motor to run on Methanol using the EFI system. Currently I run a motor on Ethanol using the stock ECM with a re-programmed MEMCAL and 36 pph Ford brown top nozzles with most of the engine management sensors, MAP, O2, IAT, Water temp and crank position. If I run a big enough nozzle will the O2 sensor bring the injector pulse width to the correct value for the mixture to be correct or will I need to fatten up the fuel map to get within a range that the O2 sensor can correct for?

Thanks

Dave

From Rexdina at aol.com  Wed Jan 31 13:11:49 2007
From: Rexdina at aol.com (Rexdina at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:11:49 EST
Subject: [Gmecm] V8 speedo calibration- For Bob
Message-ID: <c9e.8084c79.32f243f5@aol.com>

Bob, While the magazine won't give out addresses, sometimes you can get  them 
to send yours to the people you want to contact and sometimes they'll then  
reply.
Harry


From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 31 13:27:17 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:27:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 23, Issue 28
Message-ID: <20070131192717.52246.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Can you trigger the solenoid manually, to confirm it
works?  That would help rule out the ECM (I know
you've tested for resistance etc, but what the heck).

Is it stuck open, or closed?  In either case, is there
an engine condition that would cause this (such as say
high coolant temp, loss of ignition signal, I don't
know??).  Look for a circuit that's actually supposed
to lock out the solenoid, and if it exists, find out 
if/why it's been triggered.

Any  chance the wastegate itself is mechanically
stuck?  Excess carbon buildup, corrosion, broken
return spring, gate is loose on shaft (causing binding
in bore)?

I didn't know they made a 3.1 with turbo.  Is that the
DOHC 3.1?

Duncan

> I have a problem with a 1990 grand prix ste. The
> wastegate solenoid 
> won't operate. Its grounded by terminal a 18. The
> tests say it's a bad 
> ecm but ive tried  6 different ecms and 2 proms. 
> What could possibly 
> cause this besides a bad Quad driver? Tested
> solenoid for low resistance 
> and current draw tested grounds and power feeds to
> ecm. all is ok. When 
> you jump the aldl terminals all the other solenoids
> and relays operate.  


**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


 
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