From grandpawdean at yahoo.com Thu Jul 5 15:49:19 2007 From: grandpawdean at yahoo.com (Jack Dean) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 14:49:19 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] akfm2174 Message-ID: I have an 88 IROC that needs a memcal. I've been trying to burn a new prom but the bin file that I've been able to find has corruption and does not work properly. Can anyone provide me with a good copy of the 2174.bin file? Thanks Jack From zander at ezhome.de Thu Jul 5 16:53:29 2007 From: zander at ezhome.de (Eberhard Zander) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:53:29 +0200 Subject: AW: [Gmecm] akfm2174 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings from Germany Enclosed is a akfm2174 32.bin file. I hope you can use this. I have also another 2174 bin file. If you have any trouble send me a mail. Greetings Eberhard -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] Im Auftrag von Jack Dean Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. Juli 2007 22:49 An: gmecm at diy-efi.org Betreff: [Gmecm] akfm2174 I have an 88 IROC that needs a memcal. I've been trying to burn a new prom but the bin file that I've been able to find has corruption and does not work properly. Can anyone provide me with a good copy of the 2174.bin file? Thanks Jack _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From rgmecm at yahoo.com Sat Jul 7 20:04:50 2007 From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 18:04:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM In-Reply-To: <468F10C5.5050801@comcast.net> Message-ID: <53464.36156.qm@web35904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes... be warned they're expensive from GM. 3 connectors: OEM(delphi?): 34576-3103 GM partno: 88988373 OEM: 34566-0103 GM partno: 88988931 OEM: 34566-3303 GM partno: 88988372 Terminals are sold separately. Ryan Bill Shaw wrote: Ryan, did you find connectors for this ecm? I bought one also, $60. Could have bought 10 at that price. Bill Ryan Hess wrote: > Yep. Ebay! Although car-part.com had some for $50, I wanted to use > paypal. > > */Bill Shaw /* wrote: > > Ryan, > > Where did you get it for $60? That's used, right? > > Best, > > Bill > > From mfrels at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 11 19:28:14 2007 From: mfrels at ix.netcom.com (Mike Frels) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:28:14 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [Gmecm] Warm start problem... Message-ID: <29180054.1184200095220.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I am trying to diagnose a hot or warm start problem. I've got a gm TPI 350 running $8D for a 305 that has been modded to work with my setup. Morning starts she fires right up. Hot starts if she's only been sitting for less than 10-15 minutes also fine. A restart between 15 minutes to 5 hours sitting takes some cranking. Looking through my tables I've got various Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width settings that I am thinking I need to adjust. Can someone enlighten me on what the differences between Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width? BTW I have acquired this summer time problem since I switched to LS1 injectors last year. Mike From Joel.Eck at hp.com Thu Jul 12 12:42:34 2007 From: Joel.Eck at hp.com (Eck, Joel (GCC ISS Engineer)) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:42:34 -0000 Subject: [Gmecm] Warm start problem... In-Reply-To: <20070712170120.D1A8333212@ccerelrim03.cce.hp.com> Message-ID: I hope for your sake this has nothing to do with it, but I had a honda that did the same thing because of a warped head. I don't know why or how it caused that particular problem, but swapping the long block resolved it. Joel Message: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:28:14 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Mike Frels Subject: [Gmecm] Warm start problem... To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org, gmecm at diy-efi.org Message-ID: <29180054.1184200095220.JavaMail.root at elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.ne t> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am trying to diagnose a hot or warm start problem. I've got a gm TPI 350 running $8D for a 305 that has been modded to work with my setup. Morning starts she fires right up. Hot starts if she's only been sitting for less than 10-15 minutes also fine. A restart between 15 minutes to 5 hours sitting takes some cranking. Looking through my tables I've got various Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width settings that I am thinking I need to adjust. Can someone enlighten me on what the differences between Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width? BTW I have acquired this summer time problem since I switched to LS1 injectors last year. Mike From DOZIERHC at aol.com Thu Jul 12 16:51:41 2007 From: DOZIERHC at aol.com (DOZIERHC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:51:41 EDT Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Warm start problem Message-ID: Mike... It could be the fuel system leaking down. Try putting a fuel pressure gauge on the Schrader fitting and watching the fuel pressure decay. A good system will hold pressure within about 10psi for 24 hours. If your decays off to near zero in a few hours, I would then try and isolate if it is leaky injectors, or a leaking check valve in the fuel pump, or bad pressure regulator. As for cranking fuel PW, the system experiences hottest fuel at about 20-30 minutes into a hot soak, after that, the temperature decays back towards ambient. So Hot starting vapor lock would be at that time, if it is going to happen (fuel flash to vapor in the nozzle of the injectors, therefore effectivly blocking injection PW). IF that is the case, you might have to bump your cranking fuel PW for higher MAT temperatures, NOT ECT, to try and alleviate the fuel starvation. BTW, do you have a Wideband in your system to see what the post crank fueling Lambda profile looks like? Hank Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:28:14 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Mike Frels Subject: [Gmecm] Warm start problem... To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org, gmecm at diy-efi.org Message-ID: <29180054.1184200095220.JavaMail.root at elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am trying to diagnose a hot or warm start problem. I've got a gm TPI 350 running $8D for a 305 that has been modded to work with my setup. Morning starts she fires right up. Hot starts if she's only been sitting for less than 10-15 minutes also fine. A restart between 15 minutes to 5 hours sitting takes some cranking. Looking through my tables I've got various Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width settings that I am thinking I need to adjust. Can someone enlighten me on what the differences between Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width? BTW I have acquired this summer time problem since I switched to LS1 injectors last year. Mike ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm End of Gmecm Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3 ************************************ ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From danddracing at nucleus.com Thu Jul 12 17:45:30 2007 From: danddracing at nucleus.com (Dan and Deanna Jones) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:45:30 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3 Message-ID: <001101c7c4d6$5b0ccf00$653ca8c0@Computer> Mike, Forgive this question if it seems dumb, but I have run into the same kind of starting problems in the past on stock setups on direent brands of engines, that were cured by replacing the injectors or having them cleaned. In the cases I experienced, the injesctors were leaking slightly, slowly flooding the engine. I wonder if there would be some value in installing a fuel guage and monitoring the pressure after shutoff. In most efi systems if the fuel pump check valve is good and the injectors are good, the system will hold full pressure for a couple of days. Dan > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:28:14 -0600 (GMT-06:00) > From: Mike Frels > Subject: [Gmecm] Warm start problem... > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org, gmecm at diy-efi.org > Message-ID: > <29180054.1184200095220.JavaMail.root at elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I am trying to diagnose a hot or warm start problem. I've got a gm TPI 350 > running $8D for a 305 that has been modded to work with my setup. Morning > starts she fires right up. Hot starts if she's only been sitting for less > than 10-15 minutes also fine. A restart between 15 minutes to 5 hours > sitting takes some cranking. Looking through my tables I've got various > Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width settings that I am thinking > I need to adjust. Can someone enlighten me on what the differences between > Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width? BTW I have acquired this > summer time problem since I switched to LS1 injectors last year. > > Mike > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > > > End of Gmecm Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3 > ************************************ From jryan at caminofx.org Thu Jul 12 18:13:30 2007 From: jryan at caminofx.org (Jared Ryan) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:13:30 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Gmecm Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <001101c7c4d6$5b0ccf00$653ca8c0@Computer> References: <001101c7c4d6$5b0ccf00$653ca8c0@Computer> Message-ID: <2b75ba22fdc97a765dd68339797aab87@caminofx.org> I had the same thought. Are you sure you don't have a leaking injector or gasket? I chased a problem similar to this for seven months. It turned out that an O-ring around one of the injectors was crushed, and fuel was leaking down into the manifold. It would start instantly cold, but hot I'd have to hold the throttle full open to get it to catch. It would also idle very rich. I finally figured it out when I smelled gas with the car parked, and followed my nose. Taking off the air cleaner lid (TBI) and having someone turn the key to turn on the fuel pump while I watched the throttle body finalized the diagnosis. Installing new injector O-rings solved the problem. Just my experience, for whatever it's worth. ---> Jared Ryan <--- jryan at caminofx.org | http://www.caminofx.org On Jul 12, 2007, at 5:45 PM, Dan and Deanna Jones wrote: > Mike, > Forgive this question if it seems dumb, but I have run into the same > kind of starting problems in the past on stock setups on direent > brands of engines, that were cured by replacing the injectors or > having them cleaned. In the cases I experienced, the injesctors were > leaking slightly, slowly flooding the engine. I wonder if there would > be some value in installing a fuel guage and monitoring the pressure > after shutoff. In most efi systems if the fuel pump check valve is > good and the injectors are good, the system will hold full pressure > for a couple of days. > > Dan > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:28:14 -0600 (GMT-06:00) >> From: Mike Frels >> Subject: [Gmecm] Warm start problem... >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org, gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Message-ID: >> <29180054.1184200095220.JavaMail.root at elwamui- >> milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I am trying to diagnose a hot or warm start problem. I've got a gm >> TPI 350 running $8D for a 305 that has been modded to work with my >> setup. Morning starts she fires right up. Hot starts if she's only >> been sitting for less than 10-15 minutes also fine. A restart between >> 15 minutes to 5 hours sitting takes some cranking. Looking through my >> tables I've got various Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse >> Width settings that I am thinking I need to adjust. Can someone >> enlighten me on what the differences between Start Up Enrichment and >> Crank Fuel Pulse Width? BTW I have acquired this summer time problem >> since I switched to LS1 injectors last year. >> >> Mike >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> >> >> End of Gmecm Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3 >> ************************************ > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From brettr at wn.com.au Thu Jul 12 18:24:40 2007 From: brettr at wn.com.au (Brett Richards) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:24:40 +0800 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Warm start problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had a similar problem with my LS1. I have an aftermarket thottle body and the hole for the idle air control is bevelled, whereas the stock throttle body the hole is straight. Once we found the right size o-ring for it the problem went away. Sounds to me like there is some sort of similar leak somwhere with your setup. I'm not that familiar with the TPI setup, but I hope this may help Brett -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of DOZIERHC at aol.com Sent: Friday, 13 July 2007 5:52 AM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Warm start problem Mike... It could be the fuel system leaking down. Try putting a fuel pressure gauge on the Schrader fitting and watching the fuel pressure decay. A good system will hold pressure within about 10psi for 24 hours. If your decays off to near zero in a few hours, I would then try and isolate if it is leaky injectors, or a leaking check valve in the fuel pump, or bad pressure regulator. As for cranking fuel PW, the system experiences hottest fuel at about 20-30 minutes into a hot soak, after that, the temperature decays back towards ambient. So Hot starting vapor lock would be at that time, if it is going to happen (fuel flash to vapor in the nozzle of the injectors, therefore effectivly blocking injection PW). IF that is the case, you might have to bump your cranking fuel PW for higher MAT temperatures, NOT ECT, to try and alleviate the fuel starvation. BTW, do you have a Wideband in your system to see what the post crank fueling Lambda profile looks like? Hank Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:28:14 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: Mike Frels Subject: [Gmecm] Warm start problem... To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org, gmecm at diy-efi.org Message-ID: <29180054.1184200095220.JavaMail.root at elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I am trying to diagnose a hot or warm start problem. I've got a gm TPI 350 running $8D for a 305 that has been modded to work with my setup. Morning starts she fires right up. Hot starts if she's only been sitting for less than 10-15 minutes also fine. A restart between 15 minutes to 5 hours sitting takes some cranking. Looking through my tables I've got various Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width settings that I am thinking I need to adjust. Can someone enlighten me on what the differences between Start Up Enrichment and Crank Fuel Pulse Width? BTW I have acquired this summer time problem since I switched to LS1 injectors last year. Mike ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm End of Gmecm Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3 ************************************ ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From BNRVL at aol.com Sat Jul 14 13:46:48 2007 From: BNRVL at aol.com (BNRVL at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:46:48 EDT Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Warm start problem Message-ID: Hello Hank , I got a quote for the 7730 ECM for $ 14 . What do I need to ask for other than the MEMPAK or Calpac be included with the ECM ? 350 ci engine , as I do not know what this means but remembered you told me to have that included . I will also order the small cap dist. with coil and hookup wire , for a 350 npon roller cam engine Can I have the ECM shipped to you for you to look at as I do not know anything about them ? I have not had one call for my 1983 Dodge Ramcharger yet ?? Thank You Bob Norville ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From higrafey at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 21:17:44 2007 From: higrafey at gmail.com (Andy Harvilla) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:17:44 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Northstar PCM tuning Message-ID: <802BC447-0E6A-49A6-BAF5-7DF3ED9B6396@gmail.com> Hi guys, Has anyone been successful in custom tuning the PCM for Northstar engines? I've seen some places that claim to do it, but the information is very sparse... definitely not a DIY attitude. I was going to try dumping a binary from my '98 Eldorado to my PC and taking a look, but I'm not sure if that's even a step in the right direction. Didn't these things have some kind of encryption scheme to prevent unauthorized access? Just looking to see if someone can point me in the right direction. Andy From turbodig at yahoo.com Tue Jul 24 12:36:31 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Message-ID: <936284.10907.qm@web35307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? (Apologies for the formatting... yahoo doesn't do proportional fonts anymore, apparently) The thing I can't figure out is how it even works at all in 2 bar mode (other than to set the value to the default). The only thing I can figure out, is that this line: LF69E brclr L0022, #%00100000, LF6AF ; Branch if IGN > 9 V (hyst w/4 V) *could* evaluate to false on some cranking conditions. Otherwise it's gonna jump to: LF6AF brclr L0023, #%10000000, LF713 ; Branch if Engine is not running (goes to default/exit) ldaA VRPM_25 ; RPM/25 cmpA KBARSPDA ; RPM Threshold ($B8*25d = 4600 RPM) BARO update threshold bhi LF713 ; If RPM above threshold, jump around ldaA $8334 ; AF Option flags bitA #%00100000 ; 2 ATM MAP bne LF725 ; Do the following for a 1 BAR MAP sensor. Jump if 2ATM sensor ...and at the end, if it's a 2 bar sensor, it gets out of the routine entirely, without doing the default. The bizarre thing is that it appears that it actually does get a good BARO reading at times... a believeable one. Only thing I can make of it is that bit for IGN >9 is cleared at some time. And, it doesn't appear to limit the conditions of the calculation when it does... low bat voltage anytime will reset BARO, to potentially an incorrect value. This ends up in a bad boost calculation, and a bad vacuum calc as well. Since there are some timing tables that are based on Vac and or boost, it can make for some flaky operation. The other possibility is that I'm completely misinterpreting the function of that IGN > 9 flag. I've looked at that quite a bit, and it seems right. Completely different branch of thinking... would it be possible to do running BARO calc with a 2 or 3 bar sensor? It should be able to work the same way, although the F59 table would need to change to get accurate readings. Would these be calculated values, or just empirically derived? It would be nice to have a BARO that updates as you drive, for folks in mountain areas where altitudes can change fairly rapidly. Simple fix would be to just calc it based on MAP readings with engine not running.... Thoughts? Dig ;******************************************************* ; BARO Update Logic called by : ; - Loop 1 ; - hc11vec_04 ;******************************************************* LF698: brclr L002A, #%11000000, LF69E ; If Code 34 (low MAP) and Code 33 (hi MAP) clear then branch jr LF713 LF69E brclr L0022, #%00100000, LF6AF ; Branch if IGN > 9 V (hyst w/4 V) ldaA L003F ; 2ATM Filtered MAP A/D cmpA #$4F ; $7D = 125 = ~100kPa ;changed to 4F by dig for 3bar purposes. Using the x * 1.23 +2.2 bcs LF6AA ; If Filtered MAP < 100kPa, update 0017 jr LF725 LF6AA staA L0017 ; 2ATM BARO A/D LF6AC clrA jr LF70A ; ; I think this is the engine running baro update routine. ; LF6AF brclr L0023, #%10000000, LF713 ; Branch if Engine is not running ldaA VRPM_25 ; RPM/25 cmpA KBARSPDA ; RPM Threshold ($B8*25d = 4600 RPM) BARO update threshold bhi LF713 ; If RPM above threshold, jump around ldaA $8334 ; AF Option flags bitA #%00100000 ; 2 ATM MAP bne LF725 ; Do the following for a 1 BAR MAP sensor. Jump if 2ATM sensor ; BARO calculation for 1ATM Sensor ldaB L0055 ; Scaled TPS Last Loop? subB L0053 ; Scaled TPS bcc LF6C8 ; Branch if we are depressing the throttle negB ; Negate the value if we're letting go of the throttle LF6C8 cmpB #$03 ; 1.17% Delta TPS bcc LF713 ; Branch if greater than 1.17% Delta TPS ldaB L003D ; 1 ATM MAP A/D cmpB VBARO_AD ; 1 ATM BARO A/D bhi LF6AC ; Branch if MAP is greater than BARO ldaB L0053 ; Scaled TPS cmpB #$60 ; 37.5% bcs LF713 ; Don't do this if TPS is lower ldaA VRPM_25 ; RPM/25 cmpA #$30 ; 1200 RPM? bcs LF713 ; Don't do this if RPM is lower cmpA #$C0 ; 4800 RPM? bhi LF713 ; Don't do the following if RPM too high. lsrB ; Scaled TPS/2 pushB ; Save to Stack ldaB #$55 ; mul ; D = RPM/25 * $55 (85) bcc LF6EA incA ; Increment A if overflow occurred LF6EA popB ; TPS/2 ldX #F59 ; Offset to MAP reading for BARO adjustment with RPM and TPS call LF5E6 ; 3D Lookup A=RPM*55/25, B=TPS/2 cmpA KMAXOFF ; Maximum MAP Offset for BARO adjustment bls LF6F7 ; Branch if table result is <= Threshold ret ;******************************************************* ; END BARO Update Logic ;******************************************************* LF6F7 pushA ; Save A to stack for later call LF7FC ; BARO scalar ldaB #$60 ldX #F11P ; Altitude Compensation for MAP offset call LF5AF ; 2D lookup w/offset popB mul ; Multiply table output by the table lookup value lslD ; D = D * 2 bcc LF70A ldaA #$FF LF70A ldaB L003D ; 1 ATM MAP A/D aBA ; A = A + B bcc LF723 ; Branch if we didn't overflow ldaA #$FF ; Limit result to 255 jr LF723 ; Save the BARO value LF713 ldaA L0017 ; 2ATM BARO A/D bne LF71C ; If 0017 is zero, ldaA KAD2BARO ; Default BARO for 2 ATM MAP config staA L0017 ; 2ATM BARO A/D LF71C ldaA VBARO_AD ; 1ATM BARO A/D bne LF725 ; Branch if not equal to Zero ldaA KADBARO ; Default BARO for 1 ATM MAP config? LF723 staA VBARO_AD ; 1ATM BARO A/D LF725 ret ; ********************************************* ; ********* End BARO Update Logic ************* ; ********************************************* From b.shaw at comcast.net Tue Jul 24 16:27:54 2007 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:27:54 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Northstar PCM tuning In-Reply-To: <802BC447-0E6A-49A6-BAF5-7DF3ED9B6396@gmail.com> References: <802BC447-0E6A-49A6-BAF5-7DF3ED9B6396@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46A66EDA.1090005@comcast.net> Have you asked on the Fiero lists? They're big on putting n* v8s in those little cars. hth, Bill Andy Harvilla wrote: > Hi guys, > > Has anyone been successful in custom tuning the PCM for Northstar > engines? I've seen some places that claim to do it, but the > information is very sparse... definitely not a DIY attitude. > > I was going to try dumping a binary from my '98 Eldorado to my PC and > taking a look, but I'm not sure if that's even a step in the right > direction. Didn't these things have some kind of encryption scheme to > prevent unauthorized access? > > Just looking to see if someone can point me in the right direction. > > Andy > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From perlon at passagen.se Wed Jul 25 01:44:20 2007 From: perlon at passagen.se (Per Lonnborg) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:44:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? Message-ID: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> Hi! I know this is probably totally wrong forum, but since I only have dealt with GM ECM and I know there are lots of skilled persons out here I hope someone can help: A friend of mine who knows I mess with GM ECMs gave me this two boxes, pics here: http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim1.jpg http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim2.jpg They are from an Opel (or are they called Vauxhall in the US?), anyway they belong to the GM family. I clearly see that it is Bosch products (Motronic), but the second pic also have a GM part no, 96 015 795. I believe this is the box for the tranny? I would be very glad if someone coult point me to the right direction regarding these ECMs or if someone have personal skills about them. Thanks, /Per From tsokorai at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 07:00:10 2007 From: tsokorai at gmail.com (Tomas Sokorai) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:00:10 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? In-Reply-To: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> Message-ID: <8634c6d70707250500y5b9ccb7ftaba3ee7375826c03@mail.gmail.com> On 7/25/07, Per Lonnborg wrote: > > http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim1.jpg This one is the ECM, Bosch Motronic, very common on european GMs. Sadly, programming info and other internal info is nowhere near the quality and amount available for the "real" GM ECMs. Most info is handled like a secret of State. Most that have the knowledge would rather die than give some useful info on the Motronics :) > > http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim2.jpg This one is the tranny controller. ("Getriebesteuerung" = "Transmission Controller" on the label in German :) -- Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. From b.shaw at comcast.net Wed Jul 25 07:05:58 2007 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:05:58 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? In-Reply-To: <8634c6d70707250500y5b9ccb7ftaba3ee7375826c03@mail.gmail.com> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8634c6d70707250500y5b9ccb7ftaba3ee7375826c03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46A73CA6.7020300@comcast.net> 'state secret' is right. . I had a Motronic ecu from a bmw that had a dead injector driver. Searched all over for that driver and couldn't find it. Finally found one of the Motronic guys that sold me 4, he sanded the numbers off so I couldn't just go get more. Bill Tomas Sokorai wrote: > On 7/25/07, Per Lonnborg wrote: >> >> http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim1.jpg > > This one is the ECM, Bosch Motronic, very common on european GMs. > Sadly, programming info and other internal info is nowhere near the > quality and amount available for the "real" GM ECMs. Most info is > handled like a secret of State. Most that have the knowledge would > rather die than give some useful info on the Motronics :) > >> >> http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim2.jpg > > This one is the tranny controller. ("Getriebesteuerung" = > "Transmission Controller" on the label in German :) > > From tsokorai at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 08:02:23 2007 From: tsokorai at gmail.com (Tomas Sokorai) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:02:23 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? In-Reply-To: <46A73CA6.7020300@comcast.net> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8634c6d70707250500y5b9ccb7ftaba3ee7375826c03@mail.gmail.com> <46A73CA6.7020300@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8634c6d70707250602l5e3957f1nc9faf2523b1da6a1@mail.gmail.com> On 7/25/07, Bill Shaw wrote: > 'state secret' is right. . I had a Motronic ecu from a bmw that had a > dead injector driver. Searched all over for that driver and couldn't > find it. Finally found one of the Motronic guys that sold me 4, he > sanded the numbers off so I couldn't just go get more. You just gave another example of why going the GM ECM route instead of the "Stock" Motronic was the best choice when I converted a K-jetronic BMW 323i to EFI.... ;) -- Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. From ssealander at Stny.rr.com Thu Jul 26 09:19:07 2007 From: ssealander at Stny.rr.com (Scot Sealander) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:19:07 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code In-Reply-To: <936284.10907.qm@web35307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200707261419.l6QEJ3Eo014462@ms-smtp-04.nyroc.rr.com> I deleted most of the post... No need to repeat it. The reason the code does not reset the baro when using 2 bar code, is that the method used to reset the baro is worthless on a boosted engine. All that routine does for a boosted engine is reset the baro to the present MAP if the engine is not running. Simple enough. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? From turbodig at yahoo.com Thu Jul 26 10:24:33 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Message-ID: <813553.93287.qm@web35312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Strange... I never saw my post come across, was starting to wonder if it made it out there. The thing I don't get is how/where it's getting updated at all. The values we're seeing aren't the default, which is what I'd expect to see. The voltage drop during cranking is the only thing I can figure, but that would seem to me to be a bad time to read the baro... I think the initial fix will be to have it just read on key on/not running. Not gonna help the altitude folks, but it's better than what's there today. Future work, will try to get the running update working. Thanks for the input. Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:19:07 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I deleted most of the post... No need to repeat it. The reason the code does not reset the baro when using 2 bar code, is that the method used to reset the baro is worthless on a boosted engine. All that routine does for a boosted engine is reset the baro to the present MAP if the engine is not running. Simple enough. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From higrafey at gmail.com Thu Jul 26 12:10:07 2007 From: higrafey at gmail.com (Andy Harvilla) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:10:07 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Northstar PCM tuning Message-ID: Yeah, I've been reading some stuff on the Fiero lists about the Northstar, but it's not of much use. I tried contacting one fellow who's tuning them, but he's been less than helpful. I think he's trying to put together a system to sell, so I guess I understand his concerns. I'm going to play around with a Tech 2 tonight at my local GM dealership (I have a few friends there), so perhaps I'll uncover something useful. Those tools are supposed to be able to copy a PCM image to a flash card, which I can then load up on the computer. I've been told the N* PCMs are similar to those used in LS1 cars... maybe some code is the same. Who knows, this might just be a dead end. Can't hurt to try. Andy Bill wrote: Have you asked on the Fiero lists? They're big on putting n* v8s in those little cars. hth, Bill From efi at dyakron.com Thu Jul 26 21:33:47 2007 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:33:47 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code References: <813553.93287.qm@web35312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003801c7cff6$8f5e87f0$0b01a8c0@IBMm> Hi Dig, Your first post didn't make it to my mailbox either. Mike V ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dig" To: Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Strange... I never saw my post come across, was starting to wonder if it made it out there. The thing I don't get is how/where it's getting updated at all. The values we're seeing aren't the default, which is what I'd expect to see. The voltage drop during cranking is the only thing I can figure, but that would seem to me to be a bad time to read the baro... I think the initial fix will be to have it just read on key on/not running. Not gonna help the altitude folks, but it's better than what's there today. Future work, will try to get the running update working. Thanks for the input. Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:19:07 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I deleted most of the post... No need to repeat it. The reason the code does not reset the baro when using 2 bar code, is that the method used to reset the baro is worthless on a boosted engine. All that routine does for a boosted engine is reset the baro to the present MAP if the engine is not running. Simple enough. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From ne14roxcj at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 00:09:49 2007 From: ne14roxcj at gmail.com (Beau Blankenship) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:09:49 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code In-Reply-To: <936284.10907.qm@web35307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46a97e26.1de0220a.37c9.3fec@mx.google.com> This one? I got it... but that's about all I know on this one... -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 12:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? (Apologies for the formatting... yahoo doesn't do proportional fonts anymore, apparently) The thing I can't figure out is how it even works at all in 2 bar mode (other than to set the value to the default). The only thing I can figure out, is that this line: LF69E brclr L0022, #%00100000, LF6AF ; Branch if IGN > 9 V (hyst w/4 V) *could* evaluate to false on some cranking conditions. Otherwise it's gonna jump to: LF6AF brclr L0023, #%10000000, LF713 ; Branch if Engine is not running (goes to default/exit) ldaA VRPM_25 ; RPM/25 cmpA KBARSPDA ; RPM Threshold ($B8*25d = 4600 RPM) BARO update threshold bhi LF713 ; If RPM above threshold, jump around ldaA $8334 ; AF Option flags bitA #%00100000 ; 2 ATM MAP bne LF725 ; Do the following for a 1 BAR MAP sensor. Jump if 2ATM sensor ...and at the end, if it's a 2 bar sensor, it gets out of the routine entirely, without doing the default. The bizarre thing is that it appears that it actually does get a good BARO reading at times... a believeable one. Only thing I can make of it is that bit for IGN >9 is cleared at some time. And, it doesn't appear to limit the conditions of the calculation when it does... low bat voltage anytime will reset BARO, to potentially an incorrect value. This ends up in a bad boost calculation, and a bad vacuum calc as well. Since there are some timing tables that are based on Vac and or boost, it can make for some flaky operation. The other possibility is that I'm completely misinterpreting the function of that IGN > 9 flag. I've looked at that quite a bit, and it seems right. Completely different branch of thinking... would it be possible to do running BARO calc with a 2 or 3 bar sensor? It should be able to work the same way, although the F59 table would need to change to get accurate readings. Would these be calculated values, or just empirically derived? It would be nice to have a BARO that updates as you drive, for folks in mountain areas where altitudes can change fairly rapidly. Simple fix would be to just calc it based on MAP readings with engine not running.... Thoughts? Dig ;******************************************************* ; BARO Update Logic called by : ; - Loop 1 ; - hc11vec_04 ;******************************************************* LF698: brclr L002A, #%11000000, LF69E ; If Code 34 (low MAP) and Code 33 (hi MAP) clear then branch jr LF713 LF69E brclr L0022, #%00100000, LF6AF ; Branch if IGN > 9 V (hyst w/4 V) ldaA L003F ; 2ATM Filtered MAP A/D cmpA #$4F ; $7D = 125 = ~100kPa ;changed to 4F by dig for 3bar purposes. Using the x * 1.23 +2.2 bcs LF6AA ; If Filtered MAP < 100kPa, update 0017 jr LF725 LF6AA staA L0017 ; 2ATM BARO A/D LF6AC clrA jr LF70A ; ; I think this is the engine running baro update routine. ; LF6AF brclr L0023, #%10000000, LF713 ; Branch if Engine is not running ldaA VRPM_25 ; RPM/25 cmpA KBARSPDA ; RPM Threshold ($B8*25d = 4600 RPM) BARO update threshold bhi LF713 ; If RPM above threshold, jump around ldaA $8334 ; AF Option flags bitA #%00100000 ; 2 ATM MAP bne LF725 ; Do the following for a 1 BAR MAP sensor. Jump if 2ATM sensor ; BARO calculation for 1ATM Sensor ldaB L0055 ; Scaled TPS Last Loop? subB L0053 ; Scaled TPS bcc LF6C8 ; Branch if we are depressing the throttle negB ; Negate the value if we're letting go of the throttle LF6C8 cmpB #$03 ; 1.17% Delta TPS bcc LF713 ; Branch if greater than 1.17% Delta TPS ldaB L003D ; 1 ATM MAP A/D cmpB VBARO_AD ; 1 ATM BARO A/D bhi LF6AC ; Branch if MAP is greater than BARO ldaB L0053 ; Scaled TPS cmpB #$60 ; 37.5% bcs LF713 ; Don't do this if TPS is lower ldaA VRPM_25 ; RPM/25 cmpA #$30 ; 1200 RPM? bcs LF713 ; Don't do this if RPM is lower cmpA #$C0 ; 4800 RPM? bhi LF713 ; Don't do the following if RPM too high. lsrB ; Scaled TPS/2 pushB ; Save to Stack ldaB #$55 ; mul ; D = RPM/25 * $55 (85) bcc LF6EA incA ; Increment A if overflow occurred LF6EA popB ; TPS/2 ldX #F59 ; Offset to MAP reading for BARO adjustment with RPM and TPS call LF5E6 ; 3D Lookup A=RPM*55/25, B=TPS/2 cmpA KMAXOFF ; Maximum MAP Offset for BARO adjustment bls LF6F7 ; Branch if table result is <= Threshold ret ;******************************************************* ; END BARO Update Logic ;******************************************************* LF6F7 pushA ; Save A to stack for later call LF7FC ; BARO scalar ldaB #$60 ldX #F11P ; Altitude Compensation for MAP offset call LF5AF ; 2D lookup w/offset popB mul ; Multiply table output by the table lookup value lslD ; D = D * 2 bcc LF70A ldaA #$FF LF70A ldaB L003D ; 1 ATM MAP A/D aBA ; A = A + B bcc LF723 ; Branch if we didn't overflow ldaA #$FF ; Limit result to 255 jr LF723 ; Save the BARO value LF713 ldaA L0017 ; 2ATM BARO A/D bne LF71C ; If 0017 is zero, ldaA KAD2BARO ; Default BARO for 2 ATM MAP config staA L0017 ; 2ATM BARO A/D LF71C ldaA VBARO_AD ; 1ATM BARO A/D bne LF725 ; Branch if not equal to Zero ldaA KADBARO ; Default BARO for 1 ATM MAP config? LF723 staA VBARO_AD ; 1ATM BARO A/D LF725 ret ; ********************************************* ; ********* End BARO Update Logic ************* ; ********************************************* _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jul 27 02:58:54 2007 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Rob Handley) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:58:54 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net><8634c6d70707250500y5b9ccb7ftaba3ee7375826c03@mail.gmail.com><46A73CA6.7020300@comcast.net> <8634c6d70707250602l5e3957f1nc9faf2523b1da6a1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <014a01c7d025$9fd2ace0$020101c0@gandalf> FWIW I use a "real" GM ECM with my transplanted European Vauxhall (GM) engine! Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Sokorai" To: Sent: 25 July 2007 14:02 Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? > On 7/25/07, Bill Shaw wrote: >> 'state secret' is right. . I had a Motronic ecu from a bmw that had a >> dead injector driver. Searched all over for that driver and couldn't >> find it. Finally found one of the Motronic guys that sold me 4, he >> sanded the numbers off so I couldn't just go get more. > > You just gave another example of why going the GM ECM route instead of > the "Stock" Motronic was the best choice when I converted a K-jetronic > BMW 323i to EFI.... ;) > > -- > Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > From ssealander at Stny.rr.com Fri Jul 27 09:09:16 2007 From: ssealander at Stny.rr.com (Scot Sealander) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:09:16 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code In-Reply-To: <813553.93287.qm@web35312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200707271409.l6RE9CT7023439@ms-smtp-01.nyroc.rr.com> The baro is reset with the engine not running. I would not even bother with trying to reset the baro while running using the 3 bar sensor. The method GM used would force you to have to fill in the BP reset table with different values with every different engine combination it is used on. And I would bet that it would not be all that accurate. Just use a 1 bar MAP sensor that is reading the ambient pressure, and read baro directly anytime you want. You will have to check a number of 1 bar MAP sensors to get one that reads accurately. I found that I could get ones that read from 95 to 100 kPa at my altitude. I think that I am at about 600-700 feet. I am not sure that a 2-3 percent difference in baro is going to make that much difference in the fueling calculation though. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Strange... I never saw my post come across, was starting to wonder if it made it out there. The thing I don't get is how/where it's getting updated at all. The values we're seeing aren't the default, which is what I'd expect to see. The voltage drop during cranking is the only thing I can figure, but that would seem to me to be a bad time to read the baro... I think the initial fix will be to have it just read on key on/not running. Not gonna help the altitude folks, but it's better than what's there today. Future work, will try to get the running update working. Thanks for the input. Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:19:07 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I deleted most of the post... No need to repeat it. The reason the code does not reset the baro when using 2 bar code, is that the method used to reset the baro is worthless on a boosted engine. All that routine does for a boosted engine is reset the baro to the present MAP if the engine is not running. Simple enough. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From turbodig at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 09:26:53 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Message-ID: <763032.70616.qm@web35309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's what I was thinking too... a second baro sensor. Got a few free A/D inputs, although we're using a couple already. The bad baro readings mess up the boost calculation, which gets used in a few tables. As you say, 2-3% of 15 psi boost is not noticeable. What we were (are) getting is baros in the 50-60 kpa range, which really freaks things out. The key-on/engine not running read should fix the really odd-ball values, though. Thanks, Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:09:16 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code The baro is reset with the engine not running. I would not even bother with trying to reset the baro while running using the 3 bar sensor. The method GM used would force you to have to fill in the BP reset table with different values with every different engine combination it is used on. And I would bet that it would not be all that accurate. Just use a 1 bar MAP sensor that is reading the ambient pressure, and read baro directly anytime you want. You will have to check a number of 1 bar MAP sensors to get one that reads accurately. I found that I could get ones that read from 95 to 100 kPa at my altitude. I think that I am at about 600-700 feet. I am not sure that a 2-3 percent difference in baro is going to make that much difference in the fueling calculation though. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Strange... I never saw my post come across, was starting to wonder if it made it out there. The thing I don't get is how/where it's getting updated at all. The values we're seeing aren't the default, which is what I'd expect to see. The voltage drop during cranking is the only thing I can figure, but that would seem to me to be a bad time to read the baro... I think the initial fix will be to have it just read on key on/not running. Not gonna help the altitude folks, but it's better than what's there today. Future work, will try to get the running update working. Thanks for the input. Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:19:07 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I deleted most of the post... No need to repeat it. The reason the code does not reset the baro when using 2 bar code, is that the method used to reset the baro is worthless on a boosted engine. All that routine does for a boosted engine is reset the baro to the present MAP if the engine is not running. Simple enough. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From turbodig at yahoo.com Fri Jul 27 09:33:17 2007 From: turbodig at yahoo.com (Dig) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Message-ID: <471574.92344.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Had another what-if kinda idea.... Hook a dual-port boost solenoid up to the MAP, leave one port vented. Periodically during the MAP read (maybe once every couple of hundred loops) , latch the last MAP value, flip the solenoid over to vent, and do a read. Big question is how fast this could all happen, as the solenoids are pretty slow. Later, Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:09:16 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code The baro is reset with the engine not running. I would not even bother with trying to reset the baro while running using the 3 bar sensor. The method GM used would force you to have to fill in the BP reset table with different values with every different engine combination it is used on. And I would bet that it would not be all that accurate. Just use a 1 bar MAP sensor that is reading the ambient pressure, and read baro directly anytime you want. You will have to check a number of 1 bar MAP sensors to get one that reads accurately. I found that I could get ones that read from 95 to 100 kPa at my altitude. I think that I am at about 600-700 feet. I am not sure that a 2-3 percent difference in baro is going to make that much difference in the fueling calculation though. Scot -p://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From b.shaw at comcast.net Fri Jul 27 09:37:49 2007 From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:37:49 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code In-Reply-To: <471574.92344.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <471574.92344.qm@web35304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46AA033D.9000008@comcast.net> If you're using a solenoid and building some hardware to do it you could do it with an analog mux and 2 sensors, one for map and one for baro. The analog mux would switch pretty quickly. Bill Dig wrote: > Had another what-if kinda idea.... > > Hook a dual-port boost solenoid up to the MAP, leave one port vented. > Periodically during the MAP read (maybe once every couple of hundred loops) , latch the last MAP value, flip the solenoid over to vent, and do a read. > > Big question is how fast this could all happen, as the solenoids are pretty slow. > > Later, > > Dig > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Scot Sealander > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:09:16 AM > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code > > The baro is reset with the engine not running. > > I would not even bother with trying to reset the baro while running using > the 3 bar sensor. The method GM used would force you to have to fill in the > BP reset table with different values with every different engine combination > it is used on. And I would bet that it would not be all that accurate. > > Just use a 1 bar MAP sensor that is reading the ambient pressure, and read > baro directly anytime you want. You will have to check a number of 1 bar > MAP sensors to get one that reads accurately. I found that I could get ones > that read from 95 to 100 kPa at my altitude. I think that I am at about > 600-700 feet. I am not sure that a 2-3 percent difference in baro is going > to make that much difference in the fueling calculation though. > > Scot > > -p://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > From mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net Fri Jul 27 09:57:05 2007 From: mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net (Scott Pearson) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:57:05 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net><8634c6d70707250500y5b9ccb7ftaba3ee7375826c03@mail.gmail.com><46A73CA6.7020300@comcast.net><8634c6d70707250602l5e3957f1nc9faf2523b1da6a1@mail.gmail.com> <014a01c7d025$9fd2ace0$020101c0@gandalf> Message-ID: <00c501c7d05e$65c4d490$8d750747@DELL3G> What are you running? I've been having thoughts of doing something with Trina's Cadillac Catera, chatted with some Opel guys but for some reason the ECM is different. Uses a Motronic, but it's different from it's European relatives. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Handley" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? > FWIW I use a "real" GM ECM with my transplanted European Vauxhall (GM) > engine! > > Rob > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tomas Sokorai" > To: > Sent: 25 July 2007 14:02 > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? > > >> On 7/25/07, Bill Shaw wrote: >>> 'state secret' is right. . I had a Motronic ecu from a bmw that had a >>> dead injector driver. Searched all over for that driver and couldn't >>> find it. Finally found one of the Motronic guys that sold me 4, he >>> sanded the numbers off so I couldn't just go get more. >> >> You just gave another example of why going the GM ECM route instead of >> the "Stock" Motronic was the best choice when I converted a K-jetronic >> BMW 323i to EFI.... ;) >> >> -- >> Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm >> > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From davesnothereman at netscape.net Fri Jul 27 11:59:48 2007 From: davesnothereman at netscape.net (davesnothereman at netscape.net) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:59:48 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? In-Reply-To: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> Message-ID: <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> Seems like plenty of guys in the UK have cracked Vaux Boxes.? There's even software out there with calibrations, both stock and modified.? Maybe there's someone on migweb that can give more poignant details? -----Original Message----- From: Per Lonnborg To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 2:44 am Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? Hi! I know this is probably totally wrong forum, but since I only have dealt with GM ECM and I know there are lots of skilled persons out here I hope someone can help: A friend of mine who knows I mess with GM ECMs gave me this two boxes, pics here: http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim1.jpg http://www.lanechoice.net/P/EFI/mail/kim2.jpg They are from an Opel (or are they called Vauxhall in the US?), anyway they belong to the GM family. I clearly see that it is Bosch products (Motronic), but the second pic also have a GM part no, 96 015 795. I believe this is the box for the tranny? I would be very glad if someone coult point me to the right direction regarding these ECMs or if someone have personal skills about them. Thanks, /Per _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. From squelch at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 27 13:32:05 2007 From: squelch at ix.netcom.com (John Welch) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:32:05 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code In-Reply-To: <763032.70616.qm@web35309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is what Lotus did on the 4 cylinder Esprit. Added a dedicated Baro sensor and used it to read the real pressure whenever they wanted. John Welch -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:27 AM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code That's what I was thinking too... a second baro sensor. Got a few free A/D inputs, although we're using a couple already. The bad baro readings mess up the boost calculation, which gets used in a few tables. As you say, 2-3% of 15 psi boost is not noticeable. What we were (are) getting is baros in the 50-60 kpa range, which really freaks things out. The key-on/engine not running read should fix the really odd-ball values, though. Thanks, Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:09:16 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code The baro is reset with the engine not running. I would not even bother with trying to reset the baro while running using the 3 bar sensor. The method GM used would force you to have to fill in the BP reset table with different values with every different engine combination it is used on. And I would bet that it would not be all that accurate. Just use a 1 bar MAP sensor that is reading the ambient pressure, and read baro directly anytime you want. You will have to check a number of 1 bar MAP sensors to get one that reads accurately. I found that I could get ones that read from 95 to 100 kPa at my altitude. I think that I am at about 600-700 feet. I am not sure that a 2-3 percent difference in baro is going to make that much difference in the fueling calculation though. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:25 AM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code Strange... I never saw my post come across, was starting to wonder if it made it out there. The thing I don't get is how/where it's getting updated at all. The values we're seeing aren't the default, which is what I'd expect to see. The voltage drop during cranking is the only thing I can figure, but that would seem to me to be a bad time to read the baro... I think the initial fix will be to have it just read on key on/not running. Not gonna help the altitude folks, but it's better than what's there today. Future work, will try to get the running update working. Thanks for the input. Dig ----- Original Message ---- From: Scot Sealander To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:19:07 AM Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I deleted most of the post... No need to repeat it. The reason the code does not reset the baro when using 2 bar code, is that the method used to reset the baro is worthless on a boosted engine. All that routine does for a boosted engine is reset the baro to the present MAP if the engine is not running. Simple enough. Scot -----Original Message----- From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jul 27 16:38:50 2007 From: Robin at FuryWorld.fsnet.co.uk (Rob Handley) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:38:50 +0100 Subject: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net><8634c6d70707250500y5b9ccb7ftaba3ee7375826c03@mail.gmail.com><46A73CA6.7020300@comcast.net><8634c6d70707250602l5e3957f1nc9faf2523b1da6a1@mail.gmail.com><014a01c7d025$9fd2ace0$020101c0@gandalf> <00c501c7d05e$65c4d490$8d750747@DELL3G> Message-ID: <019e01c7d096$8622fc20$020101c0@gandalf> My engine is the 20XE (www.furyworld.fsnet.co.uk/Engine.html) Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Pearson" To: Sent: 27 July 2007 15:57 Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? > What are you running? > > I've been having thoughts of doing something with Trina's Cadillac Catera, > chatted with some Opel guys but for some reason the ECM is different. Uses > a Motronic, but it's different from it's European relatives. > > Scott > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob Handley" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 2:58 AM > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Opel, Vauxhall, or GM ECM? > > >> FWIW I use a "real" GM ECM with my transplanted European Vauxhall (GM) >> engine! >> >> Rob From JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com Fri Jul 27 18:01:18 2007 From: JohnsHome at wideopenwest.com (JohnsHome) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:01:18 -0500 Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code In-Reply-To: <200707271832.l6RIWaD26731@smtp-2.wideopenwest.com> Message-ID: The LG-4's had a dedicated Baro sensor that was mounted on the ESC module. It was keyed differently so you couldn't mistake it for another range. Jp > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of John Welch > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 1:32 PM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code > > > This is what Lotus did on the 4 cylinder Esprit. > Added a dedicated Baro sensor and used it to read the real > pressure whenever > they wanted. > > > John Welch > > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf > Of Dig > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:27 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code > > That's what I was thinking too... a second baro sensor. Got a few free A/D > inputs, although we're using a couple already. > > The bad baro readings mess up the boost calculation, which gets used in a > few tables. > As you say, 2-3% of 15 psi boost is not noticeable. What we were (are) > getting is baros in the 50-60 kpa range, which really freaks things out. > > The key-on/engine not running read should fix the really odd-ball values, > though. > > Thanks, > > Dig > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Scot Sealander > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 9:09:16 AM > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code > > The baro is reset with the engine not running. > > I would not even bother with trying to reset the baro while running using > the 3 bar sensor. The method GM used would force you to have to > fill in the > BP reset table with different values with every different engine > combination > it is used on. And I would bet that it would not be all that accurate. > > Just use a 1 bar MAP sensor that is reading the ambient pressure, and read > baro directly anytime you want. You will have to check a number of 1 bar > MAP sensors to get one that reads accurately. I found that I > could get ones > that read from 95 to 100 kPa at my altitude. I think that I am at about > 600-700 feet. I am not sure that a 2-3 percent difference in > baro is going > to make that much difference in the fueling calculation though. > > Scot > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf > Of Dig > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:25 AM > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code > > Strange... I never saw my post come across, was starting to wonder if it > made it out there. > > The thing I don't get is how/where it's getting updated at all. > The values > we're seeing aren't the default, which is what I'd expect to see. > > The voltage drop during cranking is the only thing I can figure, but that > would seem to me to be a bad time to read the baro... > > I think the initial fix will be to have it just read on key > on/not running. > Not gonna help the altitude folks, but it's better than what's > there today. > Future work, will try to get the running update working. > > Thanks for the input. > > Dig > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Scot Sealander > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:19:07 AM > Subject: RE: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code > > > I deleted most of the post... No need to repeat it. > > The reason the code does not reset the baro when using 2 bar code, is that > the method used to reset the baro is worthless on a boosted engine. All > that routine does for a boosted engine is reset the baro to the > present MAP > if the engine is not running. Simple enough. > > Scot > > -----Original Message----- > From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dig Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:37 PM To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Subject: [Gmecm] $58 Baro code I've been racking my brain for a while on this... hopefully someone can point out something obvious that I'm missing? _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm _______________________________________________ Gmecm mailing list Gmecm at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net Sat Jul 28 08:49:21 2007 From: kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net (kc) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 09:49:21 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip In-Reply-To: <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> can a 'reputable' GM deal reprogram a PROM easily? Is it something you'd EXPECT they know what to do? Mine is probably shot in my 92 riv ;-( what we talking cost if I bought a NEW prom, 3rd party v GM??? thankx kc From davesnothereman at netscape.net Sat Jul 28 14:56:44 2007 From: davesnothereman at netscape.net (davesnothereman at netscape.net) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:56:44 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip In-Reply-To: <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> The dealership will sell you a new chip, already programmed.? Dealer techs didn't get the option to reprogram pcm's with calibrations until GM started using flash chips.? A dealer tech is not likely to know anything about the reprogramming process for an eprom.? 3rd party would either have to have a stock file to work from, or would need to read a stock file from a valid chip. -----Original Message----- From: kc To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 9:49 am Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip can a 'reputable' GM deal reprogram a PROM easily? Is it something you'd EXPECT they know what to do?? Mine is probably shot in my 92 riv ;-(? what we talking cost if I bought a NEW prom, 3rd party v GM???? ? thankx? kc? _______________________________________________? Gmecm mailing list? Gmecm at diy-efi.org? Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm? Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm? ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. From kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net Sun Jul 29 13:07:08 2007 From: kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net (kc) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 14:07:08 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip In-Reply-To: <8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> <8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> davesnothereman at netscape.net wrote: > The dealership will sell you a new chip, already programmed.? Dealer techs didn't get the option to reprogram pcm's with calibrations until GM started using flash chips.? A dealer tech is not likely to know anything about the reprogramming process for an eprom.? 3rd party would either have to have a stock file to work from, or would need to read a stock file from a valid chip. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kc > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org > Sent: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 9:49 am > Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip > > > can a 'reputable' GM deal reprogram a PROM easily? Is it something you'd EXPECT they know what to do?? > Mine is probably shot in my 92 riv ;-(? > what we talking cost if I bought a NEW prom, 3rd party v GM???? > ? > thankx? > kc? > _______________________________________________? > Gmecm mailing list? > Gmecm at diy-efi.org? > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm? > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm? > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > > if we cannot depend on gm who can do it? what happens if i replace computer with one from a similar model that has different vin??? From jay at vessels-clan.com Sun Jul 29 19:17:54 2007 From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:17:54 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip In-Reply-To: <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> <8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> Message-ID: <46AD2E32.4020306@vessels-clan.com> Hi there! kc wrote: >> can a 'reputable' GM deal reprogram a PROM easily? Is it something >> you'd EXPECT they know what to do?? >> Mine is probably shot in my 92 riv ;-(? >> what we talking cost if I bought a NEW prom, 3rd party v GM???? What symptoms lead you to suspect the chip is bad? I ask because it's not a failure-prone part. The factory chips weren't officially able to be reprogrammed, though sometimes GM did use parts that could be erased. Dealers just replaced the chip. Newer GM cars have FLASH memory and those are reprogrammed via the data port. The last chip I bought from GM was about $40. If the ECM's part number (i.e. 1227730, probably not the one you've got but it's an example of what it will look like) is the same, then just change the chip and you're fine. GM used the same ECM for different cars and options over the years, but as long as the part number (a.k.a. service number) is the same, then you're fine. Jay Vessels 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending) From barryhanas at netscape.net Sun Jul 29 19:43:25 2007 From: barryhanas at netscape.net (barryhanas at netscape.net) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 20:43:25 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip In-Reply-To: <46AD2E32.4020306@vessels-clan.com> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> <8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> <46AD2E32.4020306@vessels-clan.com> Message-ID: <8C9A059C5A19C05-8E0-C226@WEBMAIL-MB05.sysops.aol.com> I have changed a 92 buick lesabra into my 92 olds 88 without changing the prom . That year of ecm seems to be failure prone I had 3 go bad. -----Original Message----- From: Jay Vessels To: gmecm at diy-efi.org Sent: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 8:17 pm Subject: Re: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip Hi there!? ? kc wrote:? >> can a 'reputable' GM deal reprogram a PROM easily? Is it something >> you'd EXPECT they know what to do??? >> Mine is probably shot in my 92 riv ;-(?? >> what we talking cost if I bought a NEW prom, 3rd party v GM????? ? What symptoms lead you to suspect the chip is bad? I ask because it's not a failure-prone part.? ? The factory chips weren't officially able to be reprogrammed, though sometimes GM did use parts that could be erased. Dealers just replaced the chip. Newer GM cars have FLASH memory and those are reprogrammed via the data port.? ? The last chip I bought from GM was about $40.? ? If the ECM's part number (i.e. 1227730, probably not the one you've got but it's an example of what it will look like) is the same, then just change the chip and you're fine. GM used the same ECM for different cars and options over the years, but as long as the part number (a.k.a. service number) is the same, then you're fine.? ? Jay Vessels? 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI? 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)? ? _______________________________________________? Gmecm mailing list? Gmecm at diy-efi.org? Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm? Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm? ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- Unlimited storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. From wopontour at hotmail.com Mon Jul 30 00:20:21 2007 From: wopontour at hotmail.com (WopOnTour) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:20:21 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: 1227727 really the same as a 1227730 References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net><8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com><46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net><8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> Message-ID: Seen this on eBay http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220133490178 Can anyone confirm that a 1227727 is the same as a 1227730 ? Can I just splice in the new connectors and use my AZTY bin with a 27C256 ? Thanks WOT From kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net Mon Jul 30 02:58:13 2007 From: kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net (kc) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:58:13 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip In-Reply-To: <46AD2E32.4020306@vessels-clan.com> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> <8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> <46AD2E32.4020306@vessels-clan.com> Message-ID: <46AD9A15.20605@verizon.net> Jay Vessels wrote: > Hi there! > > kc wrote: >>> can a 'reputable' GM deal reprogram a PROM easily? Is it something >>> you'd EXPECT they know what to do?? >>> Mine is probably shot in my 92 riv ;-(? >>> what we talking cost if I bought a NEW prom, 3rd party v GM???? > > What symptoms lead you to suspect the chip is bad? I ask because it's > not a failure-prone part. > > The factory chips weren't officially able to be reprogrammed, though > sometimes GM did use parts that could be erased. Dealers just > replaced the chip. Newer GM cars have FLASH memory and those are > reprogrammed via the data port. > > The last chip I bought from GM was about $40. > > If the ECM's part number (i.e. 1227730, probably not the one you've > got but it's an example of what it will look like) is the same, then > just change the chip and you're fine. GM used the same ECM for > different cars and options over the years, but as long as the part > number (a.k.a. service number) is the same, then you're fine. > > Jay Vessels > 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI > 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending) > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > i have been told by others the eeprom is bad digital dash works except the odometer]eter it reads ERROR EVERYTHING ELSE runs/is fine trip meter reset works fine. THE metric/english setting works fine as an ex. I cannot inspect thus vehicle in PA w/no odometer reading! From gary at garyandliz.com Mon Jul 30 14:10:18 2007 From: gary at garyandliz.com (Gary Evans) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:10:18 -0700 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: 1227727 really the same as a 1227730 In-Reply-To: References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net><8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com><46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net><8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> Message-ID: They are the same, I have used both. To convert from one to the other just move the prom, rewire harness and enjoy. On Jul 29, 2007, at 10:20 PM, WopOnTour wrote: > Seen this on eBay > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220133490178 > Can anyone confirm that a 1227727 is the same as a 1227730 ? > Can I just splice in the new connectors and use my AZTY bin with a > 27C256 ? > Thanks > WOT > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm From DOZIERHC at aol.com Mon Jul 30 15:34:26 2007 From: DOZIERHC at aol.com (DOZIERHC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:34:26 EDT Subject: [Gmecm] Re: 1227727 really the same as a 1227730 Message-ID: WOT...... The 1227727 ECM is the "watertight" under hood version of the 1227730 ECM. The circuit board is the same from the rear side of the I/O connector part of it. The population is the same. You should be able to rewire the 1227730 harness pin-to-pin to a stub section of the 1227727 harness and it should work just fine with the 1227730's MEMCAL unit transferred to it. Hank In a message dated 7/30/2007 1:02:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gmecm-request at diy-efi.org writes: Message: 4 Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:20:21 -0600 From: "WopOnTour" Subject: [Gmecm] Re: 1227727 really the same as a 1227730 To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Seen this on eBay http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220133490178 Can anyone confirm that a 1227727 is the same as a 1227730 ? Can I just splice in the new connectors and use my AZTY bin with a 27C256 ? Thanks WOT ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour From jay at vessels-clan.com Mon Jul 30 22:29:14 2007 From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:29:14 -0400 Subject: [Gmecm] gm 92 riv prom chip In-Reply-To: <46AD9A15.20605@verizon.net> References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net> <8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com> <46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net> <8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com> <46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> <46AD2E32.4020306@vessels-clan.com> <46AD9A15.20605@verizon.net> Message-ID: <46AEAC8A.50507@vessels-clan.com> Hi there! > i have been told by others the eeprom is bad > digital dash works except the odometer]eter > it reads ERROR EVERYTHING ELSE runs/is fine > trip meter reset works fine. THE metric/english setting works fine as an > ex. > I cannot inspect thus vehicle in PA w/no odometer reading! That's not the PROM in the ECM. That's the EEPROM which is either in the instrument panel cluster or the BCM (don't remember but I suspect it's in the IPC). I think someone on this list had a Toronado (an E-body like your Riv) who may have knowledge on the EEPROM. Unfortunately, I don't think it's as simple as replacing the EEPROM, so you may be facing either having the IPC rebuilt by GM (who apparently still services them according to a conversation on a J-body list), or by one of the aftermarket rebuilders. Jay Vessels 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending) From wopontour at hotmail.com Tue Jul 31 23:28:34 2007 From: wopontour at hotmail.com (WopOnTour) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:28:34 -0600 Subject: [Gmecm] Re: 1227727 really the same as a 1227730 References: <28381675.1185345860419.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps16.sth.basefarm.net><8C99E86ACEA2CC6-8B8-56DC@mblk-d24.sysops.aol.com><46AB4961.8030406@verizon.net><8C99F688E9BB0B8-D74-459E@WEBMAIL-MC05.sysops.aol.com><46ACD74C.4040808@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thanks Gary (and others) Does it matter if my PROM is 128 or 256? Will the 227 work with either? WOT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Evans" To: Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: 1227727 really the same as a 1227730 > They are the same, I have used both. To convert from one to the other > just move the prom, rewire harness and enjoy. > > > > On Jul 29, 2007, at 10:20 PM, WopOnTour wrote: > >> Seen this on eBay >> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220133490178 >> Can anyone confirm that a 1227727 is the same as a 1227730 ? >> Can I just splice in the new connectors and use my AZTY bin with a >> 27C256 ? >> Thanks >> WOT >> _______________________________________________ >> Gmecm mailing list >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm > > _______________________________________________ > Gmecm mailing list > Gmecm at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm >