From dennysweet at charter.net  Fri Jun  1 07:22:54 2007
From: dennysweet at charter.net (Denny)
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 05:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] FI on AMC motor
References: <20070531175805.59120.qmail@web34309.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c7a447$94cbdc90$2e02a8c0@dennyhuyir5nuj>

Duncan, I have a 304 carbed. That I want to put in my Toyota truck,problem 
is that I want the tbi. Iv'e been looking for a tbi unit for an amc for a 
while but no luck. I also have a 85 Blazer that had a 2.8 in it. I replaced 
it with a 3.4 from a 95 Camaro. It came with all the mpi injection which I 
removed and but a TBI unit on/ It runs great but gas milage sucks on this 
bugger. Such a power gain over .6 ltr. its hard to beleive.


Denny 



From andrewsharyn at yahoo.com  Sat Jun  2 09:49:03 2007
From: andrewsharyn at yahoo.com (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
Message-ID: <664334.5390.qm@web60825.mail.yahoo.com>

Got a fun one here. One of my past coworkers did some major modifications on his jeep (Moabite) including a doubler transfer case. (I know this is the GM section, keep reading)  Now he has no space for his oem vss. He does have a spot on the tcase output for a speedo cable. I have seen speed sensors in the past that screw onto where a speedo cable would go. I just can't remember where. Anybody know usable part #'s for this?
       
---------------------------------
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.

From 9jim30 at charter.net  Sat Jun  2 10:20:21 2007
From: 9jim30 at charter.net (James Panter)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 10:20:21 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
References: <664334.5390.qm@web60825.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c7a529$8a716d40$6401a8c0@COMPY>

Cyberdyne used to offer a pulse generator type speed sensor that went into a 
speedometer cable sort of like a cruise control unit.  It would be possible 
to have cables made up with any length required to locate the speed sensor 
in an appropriate location for the space available.  You might contact 
Cyberdyne to see if it is still available.  It is also possible that Jeggs 
or Summit might offer an in-line type of speed sensor.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andrewsharyn at yahoo.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.


> Got a fun one here. One of my past coworkers did some major modifications 
> on his jeep (Moabite) including a doubler transfer case. (I know this is 
> the GM section, keep reading)  Now he has no space for his oem vss. He 
> does have a spot on the tcase output for a speedo cable. I have seen speed 
> sensors in the past that screw onto where a speedo cable would go. I just 
> can't remember where. Anybody know usable part #'s for this?
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
> FareChase.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 




From 9jim30 at charter.net  Sat Jun  2 10:44:34 2007
From: 9jim30 at charter.net (James Panter)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 10:44:34 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
References: <664334.5390.qm@web60825.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001101c7a52c$ebfa1e10$6401a8c0@COMPY>

Just checked on the Internet and Dakota Digital offers the same type of 
pulse generators with adapters for GM, Ford and Chrysler cables.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andrewsharyn at yahoo.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.


> Got a fun one here. One of my past coworkers did some major modifications 
> on his jeep (Moabite) including a doubler transfer case. (I know this is 
> the GM section, keep reading)  Now he has no space for his oem vss. He 
> does have a spot on the tcase output for a speedo cable. I have seen speed 
> sensors in the past that screw onto where a speedo cable would go. I just 
> can't remember where. Anybody know usable part #'s for this?
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
> FareChase.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 




From clair.davis at charter.net  Sat Jun  2 13:24:28 2007
From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis)
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 13:24:28 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
References: <664334.5390.qm@web60825.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c7a543$41b01880$03000004@davis>

Jags That Run (JTR) aka Stealth Conversions has a couple that will work with
a cable:
http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/SpeedSensors_Speedometer.html

Somewhere I have another link, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.
Not much different, beyond having a few more photos.  I think I read on TGO
the other day that the Caprice cop cars of the early 90's had a mechanical
speedo output from their VSS that drove something in the radar gun.  That
might be another option.

Clair


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andrewsharyn at yahoo.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 9:49 AM
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.


> Got a fun one here. One of my past coworkers did some major modifications
on his jeep (Moabite) including a doubler transfer case. (I know this is the
GM section, keep reading)  Now he has no space for his oem vss. He does have
a spot on the tcase output for a speedo cable. I have seen speed sensors in
the past that screw onto where a speedo cable would go. I just can't
remember where. Anybody know usable part #'s for this?
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>




From sonoma at shaw.ca  Sat Jun  2 17:27:41 2007
From: sonoma at shaw.ca (Mike Hudson)
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 15:27:41 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
Message-ID: <009901c7a565$3e69f5c0$0402a8c0@duronf7b3061b5>

Hi
My setup is a full TBI system from a 91Chevy G20 including TBI intake and HD TBI cylinder heads sitting on a 83 350/5.7 block. 
A 3 wire oxygen sensor doesn't have a wire for sensor ground, it uses the o2 sensor body for the ground return path.

I welded in a bung for the o2 just below the connection between the exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe. The ground for the o2 sensor would have to go through that connection which is not the cleanest ground path. That's why I would like to go with the four wire.

The 4 wire has one wire for: o2 ground, o2 signal, heater positive and heater ground. 




I was thinking of using something like a AC ASF-75 or NTK 21006(Narrow band)

Will the output from the 4 wire o2 output the same voltage at the same AFR as the 1 wire sensor (Narrow band) ???

Does anyone know which year and model vehicle the ASF-75 was used on?

Thanks...


From perlon at passagen.se  Mon Jun  4 04:08:50 2007
From: perlon at passagen.se (Per Lonnborg)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:08:50 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Ang: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
Message-ID: <11464571.1180948130171.JavaMail.apache@eni-cpps12.sth.basefarm.net>

Hi!

1. The O2 output signal is the same regardless how many wires there is on the sensor.

2. You can search at AC-Delcos webb for "AFS75" directly on this page:

http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp

/Per

Stockholm, Sweden

>----Ursprungligt meddelande----
>Fr?n: sonoma at shaw.ca
>Datum: 2007-jun-03 00:27
>Till: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>?rende: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
>
>Hi
>My setup is a full TBI system from a 91Chevy G20 including TBI intake and HD TBI cylinder heads sitting on a 83 350/5.7 block. 
>A 3 wire oxygen sensor doesn't have a wire for sensor ground, it uses the o2 sensor body for the ground return path.
>
>I welded in a bung for the o2 just below the connection between the exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe. The ground for the o2 sensor 
would have to go through that connection which is not the cleanest ground path. That's why I would like to go with the four wire.
>
>The 4 wire has one wire for: o2 ground, o2 signal, heater positive and heater ground. 
>
>
>
>
>I was thinking of using something like a AC ASF-75 or NTK 21006(Narrow band)
>
>Will the output from the 4 wire o2 output the same voltage at the same AFR as the 1 wire sensor (Narrow band) ???
>
>Does anyone know which year and model vehicle the ASF-75 was used on?
>
>Thanks...
>_______________________________________________
>Gmecm mailing list
>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>




From Rexdina at aol.com  Mon Jun  4 21:08:23 2007
From: Rexdina at aol.com (Rexdina at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 22:08:23 EDT
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
Message-ID: <cfc.11151893.33961f97@aol.com>

Just recently lost all my saved info. Does anyone have the part numbers for 
that speedo sender that had both a cable and a magnetic output? Was used on 
Police cars as I recall and at least one of the stores that carry it was NAPA. 
Thanks.
Harry



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


From jryan at caminofx.org  Mon Jun  4 21:11:58 2007
From: jryan at caminofx.org (Jared Ryan)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:11:58 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
In-Reply-To: <cfc.11151893.33961f97@aol.com>
References: <cfc.11151893.33961f97@aol.com>
Message-ID: <62edfd626f45ce29af4a4376b2b635ab@caminofx.org>

On Jun 4, 2007, at 9:08 PM, Rexdina at aol.com wrote:

> Just recently lost all my saved info. Does anyone have the part 
> numbers for
> that speedo sender that had both a cable and a magnetic output?

I've pasted it below.

> From: "Mike Wilson" <mwilson at bwarch.com>
> Date: May 30, 2007 2:35:21 PM CDT
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Re: Stumbling '7730
> Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>
> I found a dual output VSS that came on 1993 Caprice cop cars is still
> available from several local auto parts stores. NAPA # VSS231 or CSK 
> #DR1044
> is what I used. It was around $60.
>
> It has the VSS output for the ECM and a mechanical speedometer cable 
> drive
> that was used for a mechanically driven radar gun. It worked great 
> when I
> put a 4L60 & LT1 into my 67 Chevelle with the original mechanical
> speedometer.
>
> You will just need a conversion speedometer cable made for your current
> setup if the AMC transmission connection is different and later one 
> made for
> the MG swap to use the original MG speedometer.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mike



From jktucker at usamedia.tv  Mon Jun  4 23:26:18 2007
From: jktucker at usamedia.tv (Jake Tucker)
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:26:18 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
In-Reply-To: <62edfd626f45ce29af4a4376b2b635ab@caminofx.org>
Message-ID: <000001c7a729$ab2e3b60$0200a8c0@tuckeroffice>

All,
	When I did a search on the NAPA part number, it appeared to cross
reference to GM# 10456131.  That part is available at gmpartsdirect.com for
$37.
	Anyway, what I am after is something that would work for a late
model car, which expects 40 pules per axle revolution.  I've got two
projects that need the 40 pulse, one is a Vortec 5.7L in an 84 suburban, and
the other is a Vortec 6.0L in a '89 Topkick.  Both are using the stock
tranny for the vehicle which have a cable speedo output.  The only option
I've seen to date is a kit from Jags that Run with a wheel and and a pickup
that will bolt to some differentials.  We've been looking at fabricating a
wheel for the topkick and using that option, but it's not ideal.
	The reason that the TopKick is complicated is that it uses a two
speed rear-end.  For the speedo, there is a  gearset which corrects the
speedo when the two speed rear is used.  If we could find a way to mount a
pulse generator inline with the speedo cable, it would compensate for the
two speed rear.  Any ideas?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Jared Ryan
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:12 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.


On Jun 4, 2007, at 9:08 PM, Rexdina at aol.com wrote:

> Just recently lost all my saved info. Does anyone have the part
> numbers for
> that speedo sender that had both a cable and a magnetic output?

I've pasted it below.

> From: "Mike Wilson" <mwilson at bwarch.com>
> Date: May 30, 2007 2:35:21 PM CDT
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Re: Stumbling '7730
> Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>
> I found a dual output VSS that came on 1993 Caprice cop cars is still 
> available from several local auto parts stores. NAPA # VSS231 or CSK 
> #DR1044 is what I used. It was around $60.
>
> It has the VSS output for the ECM and a mechanical speedometer cable
> drive
> that was used for a mechanically driven radar gun. It worked great 
> when I
> put a 4L60 & LT1 into my 67 Chevelle with the original mechanical
> speedometer.
>
> You will just need a conversion speedometer cable made for your 
> current setup if the AMC transmission connection is different and 
> later one made for the MG swap to use the original MG speedometer.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mike

_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From jdods at bigpond.net.au  Tue Jun  5 18:42:35 2007
From: jdods at bigpond.net.au (Jon Dods)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:42:35 +1000
Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
References: <009901c7a565$3e69f5c0$0402a8c0@duronf7b3061b5>
Message-ID: <000701c7a7cb$31ca7520$f157b909@au.ibm.com>

I've been patiently waiting for a reply top this topic as I'm also looking 
to change from a one wire to a 4 wire sensor.

I was hoping for somebody with some real life experience in this area might 
contribute some information however, in lieu of that, I will post what I 
have learnt on this subject so far.

Based on my research, I believe this would be ok provided the sensor was 
replaced with the same general type.  Since the most commonly used sensor is 
a zirconium dioxide sensor I'm going to assume that's the one used in this 
instance.  These come in a number of varieties and sizes. Obviously, you 
need to choose one, which is the correct size for your bung.  Beyond that, 
my belief is that the only difference is the wattage and/or voltage of the 
heating element.  This is where I get a little lost as I've read that the 
heating element in some sensors must be current controlled by the ECU while 
others can be just hooked up to 12V.   Perhaps someone with more knowledge 
on this subject can clarify this..

The zirconium dioxide sensor should produce an average of 450 mV (0.45V) 
output if the engine is running at 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture and the sensor is 
at operating temperature.  The key word there is average, as the output 
should actually fluctuate from around 225mV to 675mV in cycles taking about 
1 second to complete a full cycle.



Regards,

Jon.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Hudson" <sonoma at shaw.ca>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:27 AM
Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire


Hi
My setup is a full TBI system from a 91Chevy G20 including TBI intake and HD 
TBI cylinder heads sitting on a 83 350/5.7 block.
A 3 wire oxygen sensor doesn't have a wire for sensor ground, it uses the o2 
sensor body for the ground return path.

I welded in a bung for the o2 just below the connection between the exhaust 
manifold and the exhaust pipe. The ground for the o2 sensor would have to go 
through that connection which is not the cleanest ground path. That's why I 
would like to go with the four wire.

The 4 wire has one wire for: o2 ground, o2 signal, heater positive and 
heater ground.




I was thinking of using something like a AC ASF-75 or NTK 21006(Narrow band)

Will the output from the 4 wire o2 output the same voltage at the same AFR 
as the 1 wire sensor (Narrow band) ???

Does anyone know which year and model vehicle the ASF-75 was used on?

Thanks...
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm




From jay at vessels-clan.com  Tue Jun  5 19:54:33 2007
From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels)
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:54:33 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
In-Reply-To: <000701c7a7cb$31ca7520$f157b909@au.ibm.com>
References: <009901c7a565$3e69f5c0$0402a8c0@duronf7b3061b5>
	<000701c7a7cb$31ca7520$f157b909@au.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <466605C9.5010403@vessels-clan.com>

Hi there!

I've used 3-wire sensors (AFS-74) to replace 1-wire before; the 4-wire 
has a sensor ground as well as a heater ground.  I see no reason why an 
AC 4-wire NB sensor won't work in place of a 1 or 3 wire one.

The heater on a NB isn't ECM-controlled.  You could devise all sorts of 
schemes to drive the heater, but powering it any time the key is in On n 
or Run is sufficient (Start as well, if you like, though it's not likely 
to matter much).  If you want to minimize the heater "on" time when the 
engine is not running, you could power it via relay triggered by the 
fuel pump circuit.

A wideband sensor, now that's a completely different beast...

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)

Jon Dods wrote:
> I've been patiently waiting for a reply top this topic as I'm also 
> looking to change from a one wire to a 4 wire sensor.
> 
> I was hoping for somebody with some real life experience in this area 
> might contribute some information however, in lieu of that, I will post 
> what I have learnt on this subject so far.
> 
> Based on my research, I believe this would be ok provided the sensor was 
> replaced with the same general type.  Since the most commonly used 
> sensor is a zirconium dioxide sensor I'm going to assume that's the one 
> used in this instance.  These come in a number of varieties and sizes. 
> Obviously, you need to choose one, which is the correct size for your 
> bung.  Beyond that, my belief is that the only difference is the wattage 
> and/or voltage of the heating element.  This is where I get a little 
> lost as I've read that the heating element in some sensors must be 
> current controlled by the ECU while others can be just hooked up to 
> 12V.   Perhaps someone with more knowledge on this subject can clarify 
> this..
> 
> The zirconium dioxide sensor should produce an average of 450 mV (0.45V) 
> output if the engine is running at 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture and the 
> sensor is at operating temperature.  The key word there is average, as 
> the output should actually fluctuate from around 225mV to 675mV in 
> cycles taking about 1 second to complete a full cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jon.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hudson" <sonoma at shaw.ca>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:27 AM
> Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
> 
> 
> Hi
> My setup is a full TBI system from a 91Chevy G20 including TBI intake 
> and HD TBI cylinder heads sitting on a 83 350/5.7 block.
> A 3 wire oxygen sensor doesn't have a wire for sensor ground, it uses 
> the o2 sensor body for the ground return path.
> 
> I welded in a bung for the o2 just below the connection between the 
> exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe. The ground for the o2 sensor 
> would have to go through that connection which is not the cleanest 
> ground path. That's why I would like to go with the four wire.
> 
> The 4 wire has one wire for: o2 ground, o2 signal, heater positive and 
> heater ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking of using something like a AC ASF-75 or NTK 21006(Narrow 
> band)
> 
> Will the output from the 4 wire o2 output the same voltage at the same 
> AFR as the 1 wire sensor (Narrow band) ???
> 
> Does anyone know which year and model vehicle the ASF-75 was used on?
> 
> Thanks...
> _______________________________________________



From davida1 at hiwaay.net  Tue Jun  5 21:03:43 2007
From: davida1 at hiwaay.net (David Allen)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:03:43 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
References: <009901c7a565$3e69f5c0$0402a8c0@duronf7b3061b5>
	<000701c7a7cb$31ca7520$f157b909@au.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <015701c7a7de$f2493210$9873a6a6@yancey.com>

  Here is some Real-World experience.  Converting from a 1-wire (non-heated 
with sensor signal grounded through the exhaust manifold) to a 4-wire 
(heated with isolated sensor ground) works very well if you are having 
grounding or heat issues.
  My car has 1228746 ECM, which had a 1-wire sensor in the manifold in its 
original car.  My car doesn't have a hole in the manifold for a sensor so I 
welded in a bung in the exhaust pipe where te 2 manifolds wye together. Like 
this; the grounding conditions and thermal environment weren't very well 
suited to the 1-wire sensor.  Using a 4-wire unit keeps the sensor online 
even at idle, and the isolated ground cleans up the signal.
  The signal wire follows the original path to the ECM.  The Signal Ground 
wire, is grounded at the lug where all the ECM sensor grounds are bolted.
  The heater is controlled with the fuel pump circuit (only active when 
engine running).  One wire is grounded to the engine block, the other is 
powered (through its own fuse) from the fuel pump relay.
  AutoZone part # 15702 Bosch 4-wire sensor is what I used. It's a standard 
switching-type (narrow-band) sensor which produces a signal identical to the 
1-wire sensors.
  Hope this helps!
David



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Dods" <jdods at bigpond.net.au>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire


> I've been patiently waiting for a reply top this topic as I'm also looking 
> to change from a one wire to a 4 wire sensor.
>
> I was hoping for somebody with some real life experience in this area 
> might contribute some information however, in lieu of that, I will post 
> what I have learnt on this subject so far.
>
> Based on my research, I believe this would be ok provided the sensor was 
> replaced with the same general type.  Since the most commonly used sensor 
> is a zirconium dioxide sensor I'm going to assume that's the one used in 
> this instance.  These come in a number of varieties and sizes. Obviously, 
> you need to choose one, which is the correct size for your bung.  Beyond 
> that, my belief is that the only difference is the wattage and/or voltage 
> of the heating element.  This is where I get a little lost as I've read 
> that the heating element in some sensors must be current controlled by the 
> ECU while others can be just hooked up to 12V.   Perhaps someone with more 
> knowledge on this subject can clarify this..
>
> The zirconium dioxide sensor should produce an average of 450 mV (0.45V) 
> output if the engine is running at 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture and the sensor 
> is at operating temperature.  The key word there is average, as the output 
> should actually fluctuate from around 225mV to 675mV in cycles taking 
> about 1 second to complete a full cycle.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Hudson" <sonoma at shaw.ca>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:27 AM
> Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
>
>
> Hi
> My setup is a full TBI system from a 91Chevy G20 including TBI intake and 
> HD TBI cylinder heads sitting on a 83 350/5.7 block.
> A 3 wire oxygen sensor doesn't have a wire for sensor ground, it uses the 
> o2 sensor body for the ground return path.
>
> I welded in a bung for the o2 just below the connection between the 
> exhaust manifold and the exhaust pipe. The ground for the o2 sensor would 
> have to go through that connection which is not the cleanest ground path. 
> That's why I would like to go with the four wire.
>
> The 4 wire has one wire for: o2 ground, o2 signal, heater positive and 
> heater ground.
>
>
>
>
> I was thinking of using something like a AC ASF-75 or NTK 21006(Narrow 
> band)
>
> Will the output from the 4 wire o2 output the same voltage at the same AFR 
> as the 1 wire sensor (Narrow band) ???
>
> Does anyone know which year and model vehicle the ASF-75 was used on?
>
> Thanks...
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From andrewsharyn at yahoo.com  Tue Jun  5 21:52:40 2007
From: andrewsharyn at yahoo.com (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 19:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
Message-ID: <218417.41117.qm@web60813.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey Jake,
   
  Why not use a abs tone wheel on one of the rear brake rotors/hub and put an ABS speed sensor on it?

       
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
 Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. 

From ne14roxcj at gmail.com  Wed Jun  6 01:49:10 2007
From: ne14roxcj at gmail.com (Beau Blankenship)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 01:49:10 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire
In-Reply-To: <000701c7a7cb$31ca7520$f157b909@au.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <466658f2.514f1fc3.3341.ffffb02f@mx.google.com>

Yeah, I got some real world experience. It works fine. Sends engine into
closed loop pretty quick and never drops out at idle. My bung is in the
collector of the passenger (full length) header. The old 1-wire unit used to
hunt around for the right AFR at idle causing a bit of an oscillation after
coming to a stop. I believe that most of the chevy's and most everything
American made for that matter, are the same size and thread pitch. Seems
like 14mm.?? The sensor element is exactly the same and produces the same
voltages as a 1-wire. The 4th wire for sensor ground is a good idea if your
sensor is mounted on the exhaust pipe behind some paper collector gaskets
and some rubber pipe hangers, which tend to give a high resistance to
ground. If its custom and you have any of these special needs, use the
4-wire. Stock cast manifold, 1-wire should be fine

Beau

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Jon Dods
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 6:43 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire

I've been patiently waiting for a reply top this topic as I'm also looking 
to change from a one wire to a 4 wire sensor.

I was hoping for somebody with some real life experience in this area might 
contribute some information however, in lieu of that, I will post what I 
have learnt on this subject so far.

Based on my research, I believe this would be ok provided the sensor was 
replaced with the same general type.  Since the most commonly used sensor is

a zirconium dioxide sensor I'm going to assume that's the one used in this 
instance.  These come in a number of varieties and sizes. Obviously, you 
need to choose one, which is the correct size for your bung.  Beyond that, 
my belief is that the only difference is the wattage and/or voltage of the 
heating element.  This is where I get a little lost as I've read that the 
heating element in some sensors must be current controlled by the ECU while 
others can be just hooked up to 12V.   Perhaps someone with more knowledge 
on this subject can clarify this..

The zirconium dioxide sensor should produce an average of 450 mV (0.45V) 
output if the engine is running at 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture and the sensor is

at operating temperature.  The key word there is average, as the output 
should actually fluctuate from around 225mV to 675mV in cycles taking about 
1 second to complete a full cycle.



Regards,

Jon.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Hudson" <sonoma at shaw.ca>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 8:27 AM
Subject: [Gmecm] One wire oxygen sensor to four wire


Hi
My setup is a full TBI system from a 91Chevy G20 including TBI intake and HD

TBI cylinder heads sitting on a 83 350/5.7 block.
A 3 wire oxygen sensor doesn't have a wire for sensor ground, it uses the o2

sensor body for the ground return path.

I welded in a bung for the o2 just below the connection between the exhaust 
manifold and the exhaust pipe. The ground for the o2 sensor would have to go

through that connection which is not the cleanest ground path. That's why I 
would like to go with the four wire.

The 4 wire has one wire for: o2 ground, o2 signal, heater positive and 
heater ground.




I was thinking of using something like a AC ASF-75 or NTK 21006(Narrow band)

Will the output from the 4 wire o2 output the same voltage at the same AFR 
as the 1 wire sensor (Narrow band) ???

Does anyone know which year and model vehicle the ASF-75 was used on?

Thanks...
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From 9jim30 at charter.net  Wed Jun  6 08:33:55 2007
From: 9jim30 at charter.net (James Panter)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:33:55 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
References: <218417.41117.qm@web60813.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c7a83f$5584efd0$6401a8c0@COMPY>

I believe that it is important to have a proper VSS sensor (Hall effect or 
pulse generator) but I'm not sure if the count is really important.   The 
ECM looks at count going up for accel enrichment and count going down for 
decel enleanment but is the count per rev really that important??   I'm now 
using a Porsche VSS for speedo to interface with a GM ECM as a device for 
accel and decel and it seems to work fine.           Jim
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Gibson" <andrewsharyn at yahoo.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 9:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] VSS help needed


> Hey Jake,
>
>  Why not use a abs tone wheel on one of the rear brake rotors/hub and put 
> an ABS speed sensor on it?
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 




From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  6 12:44:02 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
Message-ID: <131475.4865.qm@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Just a comment...
I don't know for sure if VSS is required for decel fuel enleanment, as I was surprised to find a VSS is NOT required for decel fuel cutoff with a '7730.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 



From 9jim30 at charter.net  Wed Jun  6 13:20:39 2007
From: 9jim30 at charter.net (James Panter)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 13:20:39 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
References: <131475.4865.qm@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c7a867$63ee2dc0$6401a8c0@COMPY>

Only other way for decel enleanment is the TPS I guess!  I'm currently 
working with a 7749 and have the VSS hooked up but don't really know if the 
VSS is responsible for enleanment.
I am also working with a FAST ECM and it requires no VSS signal for it to 
function properly.  Must mean it uses the TPS for the ECM to know what's 
happening.       Jim----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cowen" <captain_krill at yahoo.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] VSS help needed


> Just a comment...
> I don't know for sure if VSS is required for decel fuel enleanment, as I 
> was surprised to find a VSS is NOT required for decel fuel cutoff with a 
> '7730.
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user 
> panel and lay it on us. 
> http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
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> 




From roblewis at bigriver.net  Wed Jun  6 17:06:27 2007
From: roblewis at bigriver.net (Robby)
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 17:06:27 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.
References: <000001c7a729$ab2e3b60$0200a8c0@tuckeroffice>
Message-ID: <018b01c7a88b$46c3b520$0501a8c0@LAPTOP>

I have a brand new VSS for a 700R4 that has the mechanical cable and ecm 
output if someone is interested. It also comes with a 17 tooth
drive gear and a 36 tooth driven gear, both brand new. I got all this as a 
kit from JAG's for over a $100.00 that I will let go for $50.00 shipped.
I got this before I decided to swap to a 4th gen speedo cluster so I didn't 
need the speedo cable output and went with the ecm output only VSS
that uses a reluctor ring.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jake Tucker" <jktucker at usamedia.tv>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.


All,
When I did a search on the NAPA part number, it appeared to cross
reference to GM# 10456131.  That part is available at gmpartsdirect.com for
$37.
Anyway, what I am after is something that would work for a late
model car, which expects 40 pules per axle revolution.  I've got two
projects that need the 40 pulse, one is a Vortec 5.7L in an 84 suburban, and
the other is a Vortec 6.0L in a '89 Topkick.  Both are using the stock
tranny for the vehicle which have a cable speedo output.  The only option
I've seen to date is a kit from Jags that Run with a wheel and and a pickup
that will bolt to some differentials.  We've been looking at fabricating a
wheel for the topkick and using that option, but it's not ideal.
The reason that the TopKick is complicated is that it uses a two
speed rear-end.  For the speedo, there is a  gearset which corrects the
speedo when the two speed rear is used.  If we could find a way to mount a
pulse generator inline with the speedo cable, it would compensate for the
two speed rear.  Any ideas?

Jake

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Jared Ryan
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 7:12 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] VSS help needed.


On Jun 4, 2007, at 9:08 PM, Rexdina at aol.com wrote:

> Just recently lost all my saved info. Does anyone have the part
> numbers for
> that speedo sender that had both a cable and a magnetic output?

I've pasted it below.

> From: "Mike Wilson" <mwilson at bwarch.com>
> Date: May 30, 2007 2:35:21 PM CDT
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Re: Stumbling '7730
> Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>
> I found a dual output VSS that came on 1993 Caprice cop cars is still
> available from several local auto parts stores. NAPA # VSS231 or CSK
> #DR1044 is what I used. It was around $60.
>
> It has the VSS output for the ECM and a mechanical speedometer cable
> drive
> that was used for a mechanically driven radar gun. It worked great
> when I
> put a 4L60 & LT1 into my 67 Chevelle with the original mechanical
> speedometer.
>
> You will just need a conversion speedometer cable made for your
> current setup if the AMC transmission connection is different and
> later one made for the MG swap to use the original MG speedometer.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Mike

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From andrewsharyn at yahoo.com  Thu Jun  7 12:39:52 2007
From: andrewsharyn at yahoo.com (Andrew Gibson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 10:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] RE: VSS help needed
Message-ID: <189786.11141.qm@web60821.mail.yahoo.com>

Here's the skinny on fuel enleanment (or shutoff depending on the model) This applies to almost everything fuel injected.

Throttle closed, engine rpm over specified threshold (usually 1400 rpm) fuel injectors shut off. That's it. Pretty simple huh? On OBDII it is listed as being Open Loop Fuel Cutoff if you look at the open/closed loop data in the datastream. No VSS is needed.

The VSS is needed to run the stall saver program which opens the IAC all the way so the engine will not stall during a sudden stop.

 
---------------------------------
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Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

From DOZIERHC at aol.com  Thu Jun  7 15:54:45 2007
From: DOZIERHC at aol.com (DOZIERHC at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 16:54:45 EDT
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: VSS help needed
Message-ID: <cd0.107a54e0.3399ca95@aol.com>

 

Decel fuel cutoff and also enleanment typically would NOT use a VSS  input.

Think about it this way.  

You have a manual trans (or  automatic with aggressive lockup) and put it in 
a high gear, and decel  from that with the clutch engaged.
When you get close to idle, you dump the  clutch (or torque converter clutch 
is uncoupled).
If the decel cutoff worked  off VSS, this would cause a stall due to the low 
speed engine unloading while  the engine was being motored (dry-fired), as 
there is insufficient time to  execute a rewet of the manifold/cylinders to get 
combustion restarted with  efficiency (combustion chambers dry and cold).

So instead, decel fuel  cutoff works as a function of (ECT, RPM, TPS, and 
MAP/MAF).  Additionally,  catalyst heating and O2 heating can also be included 
for optimizing of the  algorithm if necessary.

H. Dozier


Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 13:20:39 -0500 From: "James Panter" 
<_9jim30 at charter.net_ (mailto:9jim30 at charter.net) >
 Subject: Re: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
 To: <_gmecm at diy-efi.org_ (mailto:gmecm at diy-efi.org) >
 Message-ID: <000b01c7a867$63ee2dc0$6401a8c0 at COMPY>
 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
     reply-type=original
 
 Only other way for decel enleanment is the TPS I guess!  I'm currently 
 working with a 7749 and have the VSS hooked up but don't really know if the 
 VSS is responsible for enleanment.
 I am also working with a FAST ECM and it requires no VSS signal for it to 
 function properly.  Must mean it uses the TPS for the ECM to know what's 
 happening.       Jim----- Original Message ----- 
 From: "Cowen" <_captain_krill at yahoo.com_ (mailto:captain_krill at yahoo.com) >
 To: <_gmecm at diy-efi.org_ (mailto:gmecm at diy-efi.org) >
 Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 12:44 PM
 Subject: RE: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
 
 
 > Just a comment...
 > I don't know for sure if VSS is required for decel fuel enleanment, as I 
 > was surprised to find a VSS is NOT required for decel fuel cutoff with a 
 > '7730.
 >



 



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


From romans at starstream.net  Thu Jun  7 23:23:48 2007
From: romans at starstream.net (Mark Romans)
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 21:23:48 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: VSS help needed
References: <cd0.107a54e0.3399ca95@aol.com>
Message-ID: <001701c7a984$cfb23b50$6801a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>

Actually it won't work without VSS because it's disabled at "X" mph, this 
is in a 730 8D ecm.
Mark
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <DOZIERHC at aol.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 1:54 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: VSS help needed


>
>
> Decel fuel cutoff and also enleanment typically would NOT use a VSS 
> input.
>
> Think about it this way.
>
> You have a manual trans (or  automatic with aggressive lockup) and put it 
> in
> a high gear, and decel  from that with the clutch engaged.
> When you get close to idle, you dump the  clutch (or torque converter 
> clutch
> is uncoupled).
> If the decel cutoff worked  off VSS, this would cause a stall due to the 
> low
> speed engine unloading while  the engine was being motored (dry-fired), as
> there is insufficient time to  execute a rewet of the manifold/cylinders 
> to get
> combustion restarted with  efficiency (combustion chambers dry and cold).
>
> So instead, decel fuel  cutoff works as a function of (ECT, RPM, TPS, and
> MAP/MAF).  Additionally,  catalyst heating and O2 heating can also be 
> included
> for optimizing of the  algorithm if necessary.
>
> H. Dozier
>
>
> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 13:20:39 -0500 From: "James Panter"
> <_9jim30 at charter.net_ (mailto:9jim30 at charter.net) >
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
> To: <_gmecm at diy-efi.org_ (mailto:gmecm at diy-efi.org) >
> Message-ID: <000b01c7a867$63ee2dc0$6401a8c0 at COMPY>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>     reply-type=original
>
> Only other way for decel enleanment is the TPS I guess!  I'm currently
> working with a 7749 and have the VSS hooked up but don't really know if 
> the
> VSS is responsible for enleanment.
> I am also working with a FAST ECM and it requires no VSS signal for it to
> function properly.  Must mean it uses the TPS for the ECM to know what's
> happening.       Jim----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cowen" <_captain_krill at yahoo.com_ (mailto:captain_krill at yahoo.com) 
>  >
> To: <_gmecm at diy-efi.org_ (mailto:gmecm at diy-efi.org) >
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 12:44 PM
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] VSS help needed
>
>
> > Just a comment...
> > I don't know for sure if VSS is required for decel fuel enleanment, as I
> > was surprised to find a VSS is NOT required for decel fuel cutoff with a
> > '7730.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at 
> http://www.aol.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  8 12:33:35 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] DFCO/DCFE and VSS
Message-ID: <784776.59975.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mark,
I don't know which broadcast code I'm running (1991 Pontiac 6000 3.1l station wagon donor), but I am 100% sure DFCO works without VSS.  It's pretty obvious with the exhaust I have when the fuel shuts off, and there's no question about the change in decel rate when it comes back on.  

Is it possible my optical VSS (which is actually hooked up) is sending a wrong but useable signal to the ECM?  This ECM should have the magnetic VSS, and I'd assumed (because it pulls VSS codes) that it's not reading the optical VSS at all...

It seems likely that Dozier has it right, at least for my ECM...
 
**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/


From nick_cooper at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 10 11:01:03 2007
From: nick_cooper at yahoo.com (Nick Cooper)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:01:03 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] ftp site
Message-ID: <004401c7ab78$8cdae750$8201a8c0@ParentsDell>

Is anyone able to get to the gm-ecm ftp site?

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/

For some reason I can't get there.

Nick Cooper



From nick_cooper at yahoo.com  Sun Jun 10 11:34:52 2007
From: nick_cooper at yahoo.com (Nick Cooper)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:34:52 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] ftp site
In-Reply-To: <004401c7ab78$8cdae750$8201a8c0@ParentsDell>
References: <004401c7ab78$8cdae750$8201a8c0@ParentsDell>
Message-ID: <004801c7ab7d$45d2e7e0$8201a8c0@ParentsDell>

Never mind, my router was starting to lockup. Its ok now.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Nick Cooper
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:01 PM
To: 'Gmecm at Diy-Efi.Org'
Subject: [Gmecm] ftp site

Is anyone able to get to the gm-ecm ftp site?

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/

For some reason I can't get there.

Nick Cooper

_______________________________________________
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From mrgrimes1 at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 11 00:07:58 2007
From: mrgrimes1 at yahoo.com (Darrin Garrett)
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] ftp site
In-Reply-To: <004401c7ab78$8cdae750$8201a8c0@ParentsDell>
Message-ID: <172076.68947.qm@web33405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I can get there, I have IE 6.0.  IE 7.0 might be messing with you.

Nick Cooper <nick_cooper at yahoo.com> wrote:  Is anyone able to get to the gm-ecm ftp site?

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/

For some reason I can't get there.

Nick Cooper

_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
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---------------------------------
You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
 in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. 

From mabryroger at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 11 08:01:27 2007
From: mabryroger at hotmail.com (Roger Mabry)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:01:27 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] ftp site
In-Reply-To: <172076.68947.qm@web33405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <004401c7ab78$8cdae750$8201a8c0@ParentsDell>
	<172076.68947.qm@web33405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-DAV16826B8375066860E8C411C71A0@phx.gbl>

I can get there with IE 7.0

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf
Of Darrin Garrett
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:08 PM
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] ftp site

I can get there, I have IE 6.0.  IE 7.0 might be messing with you.

Nick Cooper <nick_cooper at yahoo.com> wrote:  Is anyone able to get to the
gm-ecm ftp site?

ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/

For some reason I can't get there.

Nick Cooper

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From Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca  Mon Jun 11 08:05:49 2007
From: Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Ford, Pat)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:05:49 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
In-Reply-To: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B96DA@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca>

Did you ever get to the bottom of this?
Pat 

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Cowen
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM
To: Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still

Well, it failed AirCare again yesterday.  I am getting the CO a little
lower, but it's still high.  It's allowed about 12.5 g/km, but it's
reading about 14.25 g/km.  All other emissions tested are good.

My mom has the identical car (even color!), and it passed AirCare on Dec
19th no problem.  So, I've got a source of known good parts!  Here's
what I've done:

-Cleaned/tested EGR
-Cleaned EGR vacuum modulator, then swapped it -Cleaned/tested PCV
-Cleaned IAT and ECT sensors to ensure connectivity -Cleaned and greased
all engine grounds (4) -Disassembled and Cleaned Throttle body, blew out
all passages w air, new gaskets -Set valve lash -Confirmed good, even
compression -Tried to inspect injector spray pattern w strobe, pod
obstructs view, but no large drops - seems to be a mist -Checked Fuel
return line - clear of obstruction -Compared Fuel Press Reg with mom's -
couldn't make either do anything, so at least they're the same.
-Checked purge canister - not flooded w gas -Checked all vacuum hoses -
no leaks, no obstructions -New plugs, gapped to 0.028"
-Checked base timing.  Strange, I shorted the check connector as per the
VECI, but couldn't affect the timing.  Have I lost ECM control of
timing?  How??
-Swapped cap, wires, rotor, and distributor -Swapped coil and ignitor
-Swapped TPS -Swapped O2 -Swapped MAP and MAP line w filter -Confirmed
MAP port on manifold is clean -Replaced suspect capacitors in ECM
-Swapped ECMs, although I didn't actually run it through an AirCare test
with swapped ECM, because it didn't feel like it ran any different with
Mom's.

Symptoms: Beginning quite abruptly in late August, abysmal mileage,
hesistation/light missing on light acceleration.  Oh, and has failed
Aircare for the same reason 3 times since Nov 25th!

Strangely enough, I did a ton of work in one day, including redoing the
TB, and it ran PERFECTLY for about a week!

It runs well otherwise, uses little oil, and has plenty of power.  What
am I missing??  Why does it run so rich?  

Thanks for any suggestions!

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


 
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From 9jim30 at charter.net  Mon Jun 11 08:18:13 2007
From: 9jim30 at charter.net (James Panter)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:18:13 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
References: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B96DA@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca>
Message-ID: <001101c7ac2a$f808d200$6401a8c0@COMPY>

How many miles on the vehicle?   Perhaps the catalytic converter is bad or 
plugged.  Have you done a compression or leak-down test to confirm engine 
conditon?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ford, Pat" <Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:05 AM
Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still


Did you ever get to the bottom of this?
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Cowen
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM
To: Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still

Well, it failed AirCare again yesterday.  I am getting the CO a little
lower, but it's still high.  It's allowed about 12.5 g/km, but it's
reading about 14.25 g/km.  All other emissions tested are good.

My mom has the identical car (even color!), and it passed AirCare on Dec
19th no problem.  So, I've got a source of known good parts!  Here's
what I've done:

-Cleaned/tested EGR
-Cleaned EGR vacuum modulator, then swapped it -Cleaned/tested PCV
-Cleaned IAT and ECT sensors to ensure connectivity -Cleaned and greased
all engine grounds (4) -Disassembled and Cleaned Throttle body, blew out
all passages w air, new gaskets -Set valve lash -Confirmed good, even
compression -Tried to inspect injector spray pattern w strobe, pod
obstructs view, but no large drops - seems to be a mist -Checked Fuel
return line - clear of obstruction -Compared Fuel Press Reg with mom's -
couldn't make either do anything, so at least they're the same.
-Checked purge canister - not flooded w gas -Checked all vacuum hoses -
no leaks, no obstructions -New plugs, gapped to 0.028"
-Checked base timing.  Strange, I shorted the check connector as per the
VECI, but couldn't affect the timing.  Have I lost ECM control of
timing?  How??
-Swapped cap, wires, rotor, and distributor -Swapped coil and ignitor
-Swapped TPS -Swapped O2 -Swapped MAP and MAP line w filter -Confirmed
MAP port on manifold is clean -Replaced suspect capacitors in ECM
-Swapped ECMs, although I didn't actually run it through an AirCare test
with swapped ECM, because it didn't feel like it ran any different with
Mom's.

Symptoms: Beginning quite abruptly in late August, abysmal mileage,
hesistation/light missing on light acceleration.  Oh, and has failed
Aircare for the same reason 3 times since Nov 25th!

Strangely enough, I did a ton of work in one day, including redoing the
TB, and it ran PERFECTLY for about a week!

It runs well otherwise, uses little oil, and has plenty of power.  What
am I missing??  Why does it run so rich?

Thanks for any suggestions!

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************



________________________________________________________________________
____________
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From kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net  Tue Jun 12 07:04:54 2007
From: kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net (kc)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:04:54 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
In-Reply-To: <001101c7ac2a$f808d200$6401a8c0@COMPY>
References: <20070124205955.48917.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<626E1206D3466344A57EB7A268D4587F046B96DA@nrccenexb4.nrc.ca>
	<001101c7ac2a$f808d200$6401a8c0@COMPY>
Message-ID: <466E8BE6.7080205@verizon.net>

u got the wrong guy

i have a 92 riv with ERROR on odometer!!!


James Panter wrote:
> How many miles on the vehicle?   Perhaps the catalytic converter is 
> bad or plugged.  Have you done a compression or leak-down test to 
> confirm engine conditon?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ford, Pat" <Pat.Ford at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:05 AM
> Subject: RE: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
>
>
> Did you ever get to the bottom of this?
> Pat
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
> Behalf Of Cowen
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM
> To: Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Gmecm] Tracker TBI Problems still
>
> Well, it failed AirCare again yesterday.  I am getting the CO a little
> lower, but it's still high.  It's allowed about 12.5 g/km, but it's
> reading about 14.25 g/km.  All other emissions tested are good.
>
> My mom has the identical car (even color!), and it passed AirCare on Dec
> 19th no problem.  So, I've got a source of known good parts!  Here's
> what I've done:
>
> -Cleaned/tested EGR
> -Cleaned EGR vacuum modulator, then swapped it -Cleaned/tested PCV
> -Cleaned IAT and ECT sensors to ensure connectivity -Cleaned and greased
> all engine grounds (4) -Disassembled and Cleaned Throttle body, blew out
> all passages w air, new gaskets -Set valve lash -Confirmed good, even
> compression -Tried to inspect injector spray pattern w strobe, pod
> obstructs view, but no large drops - seems to be a mist -Checked Fuel
> return line - clear of obstruction -Compared Fuel Press Reg with mom's -
> couldn't make either do anything, so at least they're the same.
> -Checked purge canister - not flooded w gas -Checked all vacuum hoses -
> no leaks, no obstructions -New plugs, gapped to 0.028"
> -Checked base timing.  Strange, I shorted the check connector as per the
> VECI, but couldn't affect the timing.  Have I lost ECM control of
> timing?  How??
> -Swapped cap, wires, rotor, and distributor -Swapped coil and ignitor
> -Swapped TPS -Swapped O2 -Swapped MAP and MAP line w filter -Confirmed
> MAP port on manifold is clean -Replaced suspect capacitors in ECM
> -Swapped ECMs, although I didn't actually run it through an AirCare test
> with swapped ECM, because it didn't feel like it ran any different with
> Mom's.
>
> Symptoms: Beginning quite abruptly in late August, abysmal mileage,
> hesistation/light missing on light acceleration.  Oh, and has failed
> Aircare for the same reason 3 times since Nov 25th!
>
> Strangely enough, I did a ton of work in one day, including redoing the
> TB, and it ran PERFECTLY for about a week!
>
> It runs well otherwise, uses little oil, and has plenty of power.  What
> am I missing??  Why does it run so rich?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions!
>
> **********************END TRANSMISSION**********************
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
> http://voice.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
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>



From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jun 12 13:19:58 2007
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:19:58 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
Message-ID: <F2C29ABA4D75714AAFC89187D9D8F2936544CF@THUNDERBIRD.usa.Arm.com>

Forwarding a post from a non member.  If you reply please copy the
posters address

kc [kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net]

--steve

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
[mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On Behalf Of kc
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
Subject: riviera troubles

Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead Own a 92 Rivera with
the digital dash and electronic climat control The orig dash blew up and
was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho every other function
works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA I CANNOT get it
inspected now because there is no mileage reference point ERROR does not
qualify To fix, I need to:?
Get new ECM?
Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is paramount) throw up my
hands and get rid of car?
CRY?

-- 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.




From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 12 13:25:59 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
Message-ID: <741671.8892.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Pat,
No, I never did get to the bottom of it.  In the end,
it passes AirCare and runs fine, the mileage is back
up.  

I "fixed it" by fluke.  I was messing around with a
SnapOn Modus, watching the O2 sensor etc, and I
couldn't find anything wrong.  I thought I'd see what
would happen if I messed with the timing - and it
started running better.  Normally, reducing the timing
will clean up HC, but in this case, severely advancing
the timing made it run better! It's supposed to be
around 6 deg BTDC at idle, check connector shorted, if
I recall (been awhile).  Right now, it's reading
aroung 22 degrees!!  I ended up advancing until it
pinged, then retarding it until smooth.  It has the
cleanest emissions it's had since we bought it 4 years
ago.

Now the strange thing is, my mom's got the same car,
and it too has responded well to severely advancing
the timing.  That seems to eliminate the "rotated
harmonic balancer" theory...  Hers passed Aircare with
flying colours too.

By now, you should be thinking "This idiot doesn't
know how to check timing.  He's got one of those
adjustable timing lights, or he's put the pickup on
the wrong lead, or he doesn't know the check connector
from a hole in the ground."  Well, I've had three
other people look into this for me, with their own
tools, and all of us seem to have the same probelm
timing this one particular type of car!

So, the car works fine (although it still goes a bit
rich on a subzero start up and idles on 3 cylinders
for about 20 seconds), but I don't understand what
changed or why to cause the problems in the first
place (it happened on it's own last August), or why
the timing "seems" so advanced (when logically it
can't be that far off factory!!)

Soon it's for sale!  The End.

**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469


From not.webot at gmail.com  Tue Jun 12 13:49:00 2007
From: not.webot at gmail.com (not a webot)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:49:00 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
In-Reply-To: <741671.8892.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <741671.8892.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <662b51cf0706121149y6555eb1fuf51355879a4aa4b5@mail.gmail.com>

 I run mine on the edge of knock as well. I didn't think to mention that.
I'm glad it passed. Where are you located?

On 6/12/07, Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Pat,
> No, I never did get to the bottom of it.  In the end,
> it passes AirCare and runs fine, the mileage is back
> up.
>
> I "fixed it" by fluke.  I was messing around with a
> SnapOn Modus, watching the O2 sensor etc, and I
> couldn't find anything wrong.  I thought I'd see what
> would happen if I messed with the timing - and it
> started running better.  Normally, reducing the timing
> will clean up HC, but in this case, severely advancing
> the timing made it run better! It's supposed to be
> around 6 deg BTDC at idle, check connector shorted, if
> I recall (been awhile).  Right now, it's reading
> aroung 22 degrees!!  I ended up advancing until it
> pinged, then retarding it until smooth.  It has the
> cleanest emissions it's had since we bought it 4 years
> ago.
>
> Now the strange thing is, my mom's got the same car,
> and it too has responded well to severely advancing
> the timing.  That seems to eliminate the "rotated
> harmonic balancer" theory...  Hers passed Aircare with
> flying colours too.
>
> By now, you should be thinking "This idiot doesn't
> know how to check timing.  He's got one of those
> adjustable timing lights, or he's put the pickup on
> the wrong lead, or he doesn't know the check connector
> from a hole in the ground."  Well, I've had three
> other people look into this for me, with their own
> tools, and all of us seem to have the same probelm
> timing this one particular type of car!
>
> So, the car works fine (although it still goes a bit
> rich on a subzero start up and idles on 3 cylinders
> for about 20 seconds), but I don't understand what
> changed or why to cause the problems in the first
> place (it happened on it's own last August), or why
> the timing "seems" so advanced (when logically it
> can't be that far off factory!!)
>
> Soon it's for sale!  The End.
>
> **********************END TRANSMISSION**********************
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net  Tue Jun 12 14:22:50 2007
From: kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net (kc)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:50 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
In-Reply-To: <F2C29ABA4D75714AAFC89187D9D8F2936544CF@THUNDERBIRD.usa.Arm.com>
References: <F2C29ABA4D75714AAFC89187D9D8F2936544CF@THUNDERBIRD.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <466EF28A.8060604@verizon.net>

could you post that for me? I am not sure I understand
must be the engineer degree ;-)


Steve Ravet wrote:
> Forwarding a post from a non member.  If you reply please copy the
> posters address
>
> kc [kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net]
>
> --steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
> [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On Behalf Of kc
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
> To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> Subject: riviera troubles
>
> Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead Own a 92 Rivera with
> the digital dash and electronic climat control The orig dash blew up and
> was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho every other function
> works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA I CANNOT get it
> inspected now because there is no mileage reference point ERROR does not
> qualify To fix, I need to:?
> Get new ECM?
> Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is paramount) throw up my
> hands and get rid of car?
> CRY?
>
>   



From mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net  Tue Jun 12 18:42:51 2007
From: mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net (Scott Pearson)
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:42:51 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
References: <F2C29ABA4D75714AAFC89187D9D8F2936544CF@THUNDERBIRD.usa.Arm.com>
	<466EF28A.8060604@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <02dd01c7ad4b$644da0f0$8d750747@DELL3G>

I think these cars (much like the Olds Trofeo) store the odometer data in an 
EEPROM in the BCM. I don't think there's a VIN in the IPC of this early of a 
car. It is stored in the BCM, but I don't recall it having any function. 
I've never bothered to match it up to anything in my 88 Trofeo and it has 
always worked fine. I have swapped IPC's in the Trofeos without problems or 
ERROR many times.

When you say the dash "blew up" could you be a little more specific?

Scott

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
>> [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On Behalf Of kc
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
>> To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
>> Subject: riviera troubles
>>
>> Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead Own a 92 Rivera with
>> the digital dash and electronic climat control The orig dash blew up and
>> was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho every other function
>> works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA I CANNOT get it
>> inspected now because there is no mileage reference point ERROR does not
>> qualify To fix, I need to:?
>> Get new ECM?
>> Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is paramount) throw up my
>> hands and get rid of car?
>> CRY?





From captain_krill at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 13 14:18:00 2007
From: captain_krill at yahoo.com (Cowen)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:18:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
Message-ID: <280364.56998.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Pat,

Located in Vancouver, BC

What is your base timing at??  What year do you have?


--- gmecm-request at diy-efi.org wrote:

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> than "Re: Contents of Gmecm digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. FW: riviera troubles (Steve Ravet)
>    2. Re: Tracker TBI Problems still (Cowen)
>    3. Re: Re: Tracker TBI Problems still (not a
> webot)
>    4. Re: FW: riviera troubles (kc)
>    5. Re: FW: riviera troubles (Scott Pearson)
> > From: "Steve Ravet" <Steve.Ravet at arm.com>
> Subject: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:19:58 -0700
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> 
> Forwarding a post from a non member.  If you reply
> please copy the
> posters address
> 
> kc [kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net]
> 
> --steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
> [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On
> Behalf Of kc
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
> To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> Subject: riviera troubles
> 
> Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead
> Own a 92 Rivera with
> the digital dash and electronic climat control The
> orig dash blew up and
> was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho
> every other function
> works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA I
> CANNOT get it
> inspected now because there is no mileage reference
> point ERROR does not
> qualify To fix, I need to:?
> Get new ECM?
> Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is
> paramount) throw up my
> hands and get rid of car?
> CRY?
> 
> -- 
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any
> attachments are confidential and may also be
> privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify the sender immediately and do not
> disclose the contents to any other person, use it
> for any purpose, or store or copy the information in
> any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> 
> Pat,
> No, I never did get to the bottom of it.  In the
> end,
> it passes AirCare and runs fine, the mileage is back
> up.  
> 
> I "fixed it" by fluke.  I was messing around with a
> SnapOn Modus, watching the O2 sensor etc, and I
> couldn't find anything wrong.  I thought I'd see
> what
> would happen if I messed with the timing - and it
> started running better.  Normally, reducing the
> timing
> will clean up HC, but in this case, severely
> advancing
> the timing made it run better! It's supposed to be
> around 6 deg BTDC at idle, check connector shorted,
> if
> I recall (been awhile).  Right now, it's reading
> aroung 22 degrees!!  I ended up advancing until it
> pinged, then retarding it until smooth.  It has the
> cleanest emissions it's had since we bought it 4
> years
> ago.
> 
> Now the strange thing is, my mom's got the same car,
> and it too has responded well to severely advancing
> the timing.  That seems to eliminate the "rotated
> harmonic balancer" theory...  Hers passed Aircare
> with
> flying colours too.
> 
> By now, you should be thinking "This idiot doesn't
> know how to check timing.  He's got one of those
> adjustable timing lights, or he's put the pickup on
> the wrong lead, or he doesn't know the check
> connector
> from a hole in the ground."  Well, I've had three
> other people look into this for me, with their own
> tools, and all of us seem to have the same probelm
> timing this one particular type of car!
> 
> So, the car works fine (although it still goes a bit
> rich on a subzero start up and idles on 3 cylinders
> for about 20 seconds), but I don't understand what
> changed or why to cause the problems in the first
> place (it happened on it's own last August), or why
> the timing "seems" so advanced (when logically it
> can't be that far off factory!!)
> 
> Soon it's for sale!  The End.
> 
> **********************END
> TRANSMISSION**********************
> 
> 
>        
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers
> from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it
> out.
>
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> 
> > From: "not a webot" <not.webot at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:49:00 -0400
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> 
>  I run mine on the edge of knock as well. I didn't
> think to mention that.
> I'm glad it passed. Where are you located?
> 
> On 6/12/07, Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Pat,
> > No, I never did get to the bottom of it.  In the
> end,
> > it passes AirCare and runs fine, the mileage is
> back
> > up.
> >
> > I "fixed it" by fluke.  I was messing around with
> a
> > SnapOn Modus, watching the O2 sensor etc, and I
> > couldn't find anything wrong.  I thought I'd see
> what
> > would happen if I messed with the timing - and it
> > started running better.  Normally, reducing the
> timing
> > will clean up HC, but in this case, severely
> advancing
> > the timing made it run better! It's supposed to be
> > around 6 deg BTDC at idle, check connector
> shorted, if
> > I recall (been awhile).  Right now, it's reading
> > aroung 22 degrees!!  I ended up advancing until it
> > pinged, then retarding it until smooth.  It has
> the
> > cleanest emissions it's had since we bought it 4
> years
> > ago.
> >
> > Now the strange thing is, my mom's got the same
> car,
> > and it too has responded well to severely
> advancing
> > the timing.  That seems to eliminate the "rotated
> > harmonic balancer" theory...  Hers passed Aircare
> with
> > flying colours too.
> >
> > By now, you should be thinking "This idiot doesn't
> > know how to check timing.  He's got one of those
> > adjustable timing lights, or he's put the pickup
> on
> > the wrong lead, or he doesn't know the check
> connector
> > from a hole in the ground."  Well, I've had three
> > other people look into this for me, with their own
> > tools, and all of us seem to have the same probelm
> > timing this one particular type of car!
> >
> > So, the car works fine (although it still goes a
> bit
> > rich on a subzero start up and idles on 3
> cylinders
> > for about 20 seconds), but I don't understand what
> > changed or why to cause the problems in the first
> > place (it happened on it's own last August), or
> why
> > the timing "seems" so advanced (when logically it
> > can't be that far off factory!!)
> >
> > Soon it's for sale!  The End.
> >
> > **********************END
> TRANSMISSION**********************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel
> answers from someone who
> > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> >
>
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gmecm mailing list
> > Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > Subscribe:
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> >
> 
> > From: kc <kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:50 -0400
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> 
> could you post that for me? I am not sure I
> understand
> must be the engineer degree ;-)
> 
> 
> Steve Ravet wrote:
> > Forwarding a post from a non member.  If you reply
> please copy the
> > posters address
> >
> > kc [kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net]
> >
> > --steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
> > [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On
> Behalf Of kc
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
> > To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: riviera troubles
> >
> > Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead
> Own a 92 Rivera with
> > the digital dash and electronic climat control The
> orig dash blew up and
> > was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho
> every other function
> > works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA I
> CANNOT get it
> > inspected now because there is no mileage
> reference point ERROR does not
> > qualify To fix, I need to:?
> > Get new ECM?
> > Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is
> paramount) throw up my
> > hands and get rid of car?
> > CRY?
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> > From: "Scott Pearson" <mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
> CC: 
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:42:51 -0500
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>, <kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net>
> 
> I think these cars (much like the Olds Trofeo) store
> the odometer data in an 
> EEPROM in the BCM. I don't think there's a VIN in
> the IPC of this early of a 
> car. It is stored in the BCM, but I don't recall it
> having any function. 
> I've never bothered to match it up to anything in my
> 88 Trofeo and it has 
> always worked fine. I have swapped IPC's in the
> Trofeos without problems or 
> ERROR many times.
> 
> When you say the dash "blew up" could you be a
> little more specific?
> 
> Scott
> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
> >> [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On
> Behalf Of kc
> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
> >> To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> >> Subject: riviera troubles
> >>
> >> Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead
> Own a 92 Rivera with
> >> the digital dash and electronic climat control
> The orig dash blew up and
> >> was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho
> every other function
> >> works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA
> I CANNOT get it
> >> inspected now because there is no mileage
> reference point ERROR does not
> >> qualify To fix, I need to:?
> >> Get new ECM?
> >> Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is
> paramount) throw up my
> >> hands and get rid of car?
> >> CRY?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> 


**********************END TRANSMISSION**********************


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC


From not.webot at gmail.com  Wed Jun 13 15:26:33 2007
From: not.webot at gmail.com (not a webot)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:26:33 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
In-Reply-To: <280364.56998.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <280364.56998.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <662b51cf0706131326t5fcc2192kc0535bd967b9a843@mail.gmail.com>

I set my timing by adjusting for maximum vacum then backing off 2" of vacum.
Mine are 89, and 92
Pat

On 6/13/07, Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Pat,
>
> Located in Vancouver, BC
>
> What is your base timing at??  What year do you have?
>
>
> --- gmecm-request at diy-efi.org wrote:
>
> > Send Gmecm mailing list submissions to
> >       gmecm at diy-efi.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> > visit
> >       http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> > 'help' to
> >       gmecm-request at diy-efi.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >       gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> > is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Gmecm digest..."
> > > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. FW: riviera troubles (Steve Ravet)
> >    2. Re: Tracker TBI Problems still (Cowen)
> >    3. Re: Re: Tracker TBI Problems still (not a
> > webot)
> >    4. Re: FW: riviera troubles (kc)
> >    5. Re: FW: riviera troubles (Scott Pearson)
> > > From: "Steve Ravet" <Steve.Ravet at arm.com>
> > Subject: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
> > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:19:58 -0700
> > To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> >
> > Forwarding a post from a non member.  If you reply
> > please copy the
> > posters address
> >
> > kc [kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net]
> >
> > --steve
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
> > [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On
> > Behalf Of kc
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
> > To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: riviera troubles
> >
> > Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead
> > Own a 92 Rivera with
> > the digital dash and electronic climat control The
> > orig dash blew up and
> > was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho
> > every other function
> > works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA I
> > CANNOT get it
> > inspected now because there is no mileage reference
> > point ERROR does not
> > qualify To fix, I need to:?
> > Get new ECM?
> > Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is
> > paramount) throw up my
> > hands and get rid of car?
> > CRY?
> >
> > --
> > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any
> > attachments are confidential and may also be
> > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
> > please notify the sender immediately and do not
> > disclose the contents to any other person, use it
> > for any purpose, or store or copy the information in
> > any medium.  Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
> > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:25:59 -0700 (PDT)
> > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> >
> > Pat,
> > No, I never did get to the bottom of it.  In the
> > end,
> > it passes AirCare and runs fine, the mileage is back
> > up.
> >
> > I "fixed it" by fluke.  I was messing around with a
> > SnapOn Modus, watching the O2 sensor etc, and I
> > couldn't find anything wrong.  I thought I'd see
> > what
> > would happen if I messed with the timing - and it
> > started running better.  Normally, reducing the
> > timing
> > will clean up HC, but in this case, severely
> > advancing
> > the timing made it run better! It's supposed to be
> > around 6 deg BTDC at idle, check connector shorted,
> > if
> > I recall (been awhile).  Right now, it's reading
> > aroung 22 degrees!!  I ended up advancing until it
> > pinged, then retarding it until smooth.  It has the
> > cleanest emissions it's had since we bought it 4
> > years
> > ago.
> >
> > Now the strange thing is, my mom's got the same car,
> > and it too has responded well to severely advancing
> > the timing.  That seems to eliminate the "rotated
> > harmonic balancer" theory...  Hers passed Aircare
> > with
> > flying colours too.
> >
> > By now, you should be thinking "This idiot doesn't
> > know how to check timing.  He's got one of those
> > adjustable timing lights, or he's put the pickup on
> > the wrong lead, or he doesn't know the check
> > connector
> > from a hole in the ground."  Well, I've had three
> > other people look into this for me, with their own
> > tools, and all of us seem to have the same probelm
> > timing this one particular type of car!
> >
> > So, the car works fine (although it still goes a bit
> > rich on a subzero start up and idles on 3 cylinders
> > for about 20 seconds), but I don't understand what
> > changed or why to cause the problems in the first
> > place (it happened on it's own last August), or why
> > the timing "seems" so advanced (when logically it
> > can't be that far off factory!!)
> >
> > Soon it's for sale!  The End.
> >
> > **********************END
> > TRANSMISSION**********************
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers
> > from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it
> > out.
> >
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> >
> > > From: "not a webot" <not.webot at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Re: Tracker TBI Problems still
> > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:49:00 -0400
> > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> >
> >  I run mine on the edge of knock as well. I didn't
> > think to mention that.
> > I'm glad it passed. Where are you located?
> >
> > On 6/12/07, Cowen <captain_krill at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Pat,
> > > No, I never did get to the bottom of it.  In the
> > end,
> > > it passes AirCare and runs fine, the mileage is
> > back
> > > up.
> > >
> > > I "fixed it" by fluke.  I was messing around with
> > a
> > > SnapOn Modus, watching the O2 sensor etc, and I
> > > couldn't find anything wrong.  I thought I'd see
> > what
> > > would happen if I messed with the timing - and it
> > > started running better.  Normally, reducing the
> > timing
> > > will clean up HC, but in this case, severely
> > advancing
> > > the timing made it run better! It's supposed to be
> > > around 6 deg BTDC at idle, check connector
> > shorted, if
> > > I recall (been awhile).  Right now, it's reading
> > > aroung 22 degrees!!  I ended up advancing until it
> > > pinged, then retarding it until smooth.  It has
> > the
> > > cleanest emissions it's had since we bought it 4
> > years
> > > ago.
> > >
> > > Now the strange thing is, my mom's got the same
> > car,
> > > and it too has responded well to severely
> > advancing
> > > the timing.  That seems to eliminate the "rotated
> > > harmonic balancer" theory...  Hers passed Aircare
> > with
> > > flying colours too.
> > >
> > > By now, you should be thinking "This idiot doesn't
> > > know how to check timing.  He's got one of those
> > > adjustable timing lights, or he's put the pickup
> > on
> > > the wrong lead, or he doesn't know the check
> > connector
> > > from a hole in the ground."  Well, I've had three
> > > other people look into this for me, with their own
> > > tools, and all of us seem to have the same probelm
> > > timing this one particular type of car!
> > >
> > > So, the car works fine (although it still goes a
> > bit
> > > rich on a subzero start up and idles on 3
> > cylinders
> > > for about 20 seconds), but I don't understand what
> > > changed or why to cause the problems in the first
> > > place (it happened on it's own last August), or
> > why
> > > the timing "seems" so advanced (when logically it
> > > can't be that far off factory!!)
> > >
> > > Soon it's for sale!  The End.
> > >
> > > **********************END
> > TRANSMISSION**********************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel
> > answers from someone who
> > > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> > >
> >
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Gmecm mailing list
> > > Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > > Subscribe:
> > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> > >
> >
> > > From: kc <kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
> > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:22:50 -0400
> > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> >
> > could you post that for me? I am not sure I
> > understand
> > must be the engineer degree ;-)
> >
> >
> > Steve Ravet wrote:
> > > Forwarding a post from a non member.  If you reply
> > please copy the
> > > posters address
> > >
> > > kc [kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net]
> > >
> > > --steve
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
> > > [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On
> > Behalf Of kc
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
> > > To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> > > Subject: riviera troubles
> > >
> > > Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead
> > Own a 92 Rivera with
> > > the digital dash and electronic climat control The
> > orig dash blew up and
> > > was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho
> > every other function
> > > works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA I
> > CANNOT get it
> > > inspected now because there is no mileage
> > reference point ERROR does not
> > > qualify To fix, I need to:?
> > > Get new ECM?
> > > Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is
> > paramount) throw up my
> > > hands and get rid of car?
> > > CRY?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > > From: "Scott Pearson" <mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Gmecm] FW: riviera troubles
> > CC:
> > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:42:51 -0500
> > To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>, <kctobyjoe1 at verizon.net>
> >
> > I think these cars (much like the Olds Trofeo) store
> > the odometer data in an
> > EEPROM in the BCM. I don't think there's a VIN in
> > the IPC of this early of a
> > car. It is stored in the BCM, but I don't recall it
> > having any function.
> > I've never bothered to match it up to anything in my
> > 88 Trofeo and it has
> > always worked fine. I have swapped IPC's in the
> > Trofeos without problems or
> > ERROR many times.
> >
> > When you say the dash "blew up" could you be a
> > little more specific?
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com
> > >> [mailto:mailman-bounces at columbiabikeclub.com] On
> > Behalf Of kc
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 12:10 PM
> > >> To: gmecm-owner at diy-efi.org
> > >> Subject: riviera troubles
> > >>
> > >> Here is my quandry which you may post in my stead
> > Own a 92 Rivera with
> > >> the digital dash and electronic climat control
> > The orig dash blew up and
> > >> was replaced NOW the odometer reads ERROR altho
> > every other function
> > >> works fine trip meter reads correctly SO...in PA
> > I CANNOT get it
> > >> inspected now because there is no mileage
> > reference point ERROR does not
> > >> qualify To fix, I need to:?
> > >> Get new ECM?
> > >> Have it re flashed ( I understand the VIN info is
> > paramount) throw up my
> > >> hands and get rid of car?
> > >> CRY?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > Gmecm mailing list
> > Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> >
>
>
> **********************END TRANSMISSION**********************
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> that gives answers, not web links.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From rgmecm at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 19 20:33:13 2007
From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:33:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
Message-ID: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"The E67 is the high-line controller in GM?s new family of three engine control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in Powertrain?s line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128 kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 100 functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction control calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different generation vehicle wiring systems, or LANs."

I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the most advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids, and all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for this ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I think this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.  

Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?  


From b.shaw at comcast.net  Tue Jun 19 21:51:51 2007
From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:51:51 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46789647.2020707@comcast.net>

You betcha!

Bill

Ryan Hess wrote:
> "The E67 is the high-line controller in GM?s new family of three engine control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in Powertrain?s line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128 kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 100 functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction control calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different generation vehicle wiring systems, or LANs."
>
> I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the most advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids, and all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for this ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I think this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.  
>
> Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?  
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
>   


From clair.davis at charter.net  Tue Jun 19 22:06:52 2007
From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:06:52 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
References: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003d01c7b2e8$0d6c32e0$03000004@davis>

Is this the same basic Delphi ECM that MSD is selling now?
http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/mefi4.html
If so, that would be neat to play with just because it's so stinkin' small.
Realistically, I'm fairly overwhelmed dealing with the 730 I have now, but
I've changed horses mid-stream in the past...  Back to Google...

Clair


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Hess" <rgmecm at yahoo.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:33 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


> "The E67 is the high-line controller in GM's new family of three engine
control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in
Powertrain's line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to
conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128
kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 100
functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction control
calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different generation vehicle
wiring systems, or LANs."
>
> I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the most
advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids, and
all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for this
ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I think
this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.
>
> Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>




From romans at starstream.net  Tue Jun 19 23:55:33 2007
From: romans at starstream.net (Mark Romans)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:55:33 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
References: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<003d01c7b2e8$0d6c32e0$03000004@davis>
Message-ID: <000a01c7b2f7$3c0e39e0$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>

The msd is the MEFI controller.  Much more basic.
Mark
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clair Davis" <clair.davis at charter.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


> Is this the same basic Delphi ECM that MSD is selling now?
> http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/mefi4.html
> If so, that would be neat to play with just because it's so stinkin' 
> small.
> Realistically, I'm fairly overwhelmed dealing with the 730 I have now, but
> I've changed horses mid-stream in the past...  Back to Google...
>
> Clair
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ryan Hess" <rgmecm at yahoo.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:33 PM
> Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>
>
>> "The E67 is the high-line controller in GM's new family of three engine
> control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in
> Powertrain's line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to
> conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128
> kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 100
> functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction 
> control
> calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different generation 
> vehicle
> wiring systems, or LANs."
>>
>> I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the 
>> most
> advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids, 
> and
> all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for 
> this
> ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I think
> this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.
>>
>> Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From darrenfreed at gmail.com  Wed Jun 20 01:18:18 2007
From: darrenfreed at gmail.com (Darren Freed)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:18:18 +0100
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <000a01c7b2f7$3c0e39e0$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>
References: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<003d01c7b2e8$0d6c32e0$03000004@davis>
	<000a01c7b2f7$3c0e39e0$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>
Message-ID: <f61eb5c30706192318k5293850bo7b366c501562f844@mail.gmail.com>

Is it programmed already?  Have you been able to get a dump of the rom
contents?  I'd love to have a look at that code!

Darren



On 6/20/07, Mark Romans <romans at starstream.net> wrote:
>
> The msd is the MEFI controller.  Much more basic.
> Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clair Davis" <clair.davis at charter.net>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>
>
> > Is this the same basic Delphi ECM that MSD is selling now?
> > http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/mefi4.html
> > If so, that would be neat to play with just because it's so stinkin'
> > small.
> > Realistically, I'm fairly overwhelmed dealing with the 730 I have now,
> but
> > I've changed horses mid-stream in the past...  Back to Google...
> >
> > Clair
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ryan Hess" <rgmecm at yahoo.com>
> > To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:33 PM
> > Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
> >
> >
> >> "The E67 is the high-line controller in GM's new family of three engine
> > control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in
> > Powertrain's line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to
> > conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128
> > kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 100
> > functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction
> > control
> > calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different generation
> > vehicle
> > wiring systems, or LANs."
> >>
> >> I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the
> >> most
> > advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids,
> > and
> > all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for
> > this
> > ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I
> think
> > this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.
> >>
> >> Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gmecm mailing list
> >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gmecm mailing list
> > Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From tsokorai at gmail.com  Wed Jun 20 07:16:49 2007
From: tsokorai at gmail.com (Tomas Sokorai)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:16:49 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <f61eb5c30706192318k5293850bo7b366c501562f844@mail.gmail.com>
References: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<003d01c7b2e8$0d6c32e0$03000004@davis>
	<000a01c7b2f7$3c0e39e0$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>
	<f61eb5c30706192318k5293850bo7b366c501562f844@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8634c6d70706200516k196cf366k8017cdabbc35427e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/20/07, Darren Freed <darrenfreed at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it programmed already?  Have you been able to get a dump of the rom
> contents?  I'd love to have a look at that code!

With 32MB of Flash, you can bet the code is compiler-generated, and
unless the compiler is not very optimizing, the generated code will be
*very* hard to follow, unlike the old assembler-based codes, like the
C3 and P4 families.

Probably its not even hand-coded, but done using code generator tools.
Even less chances to reverse-engineer.

-- 
Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.


From romans at starstream.net  Wed Jun 20 10:29:43 2007
From: romans at starstream.net (Mark Romans)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:29:43 -0700
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
References: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003d01c7b2e8$0d6c32e0$03000004@davis><000a01c7b2f7$3c0e39e0$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>
	<f61eb5c30706192318k5293850bo7b366c501562f844@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c7b350$2df2f040$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>

Hi Darren:  A friend of mine signed up as a dealer with 
http://www.umiracing.com/
They charge about $500.00 you send them your ecm and they load their 
software and that's for a single ecm license.
Now MSD bought them and is supposed to be making available that you can buy 
a tuner license to do unlimited mefi
controllers.

I already have software from www.hptuners.com to tune all the GM factory 
ecm's like the E67 and it's awesome, built in
scanner and programmer, plus unbelievable number of parameters.  Having been 
on this board and hacking on gm ecm's for over
10 years gave me a great intuitive advantage when I started using the HP 
Tuners software.
Mark
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Freed" <darrenfreed at gmail.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


> Is it programmed already?  Have you been able to get a dump of the rom
> contents?  I'd love to have a look at that code!
>
> Darren
>
>
>
> On 6/20/07, Mark Romans <romans at starstream.net> wrote:
>>
>> The msd is the MEFI controller.  Much more basic.
>> Mark
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Clair Davis" <clair.davis at charter.net>
>> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>>
>>
>> > Is this the same basic Delphi ECM that MSD is selling now?
>> > http://www.msdfuelinjection.com/mefi4.html
>> > If so, that would be neat to play with just because it's so stinkin'
>> > small.
>> > Realistically, I'm fairly overwhelmed dealing with the 730 I have now,
>> but
>> > I've changed horses mid-stream in the past...  Back to Google...
>> >
>> > Clair
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Ryan Hess" <rgmecm at yahoo.com>
>> > To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 8:33 PM
>> > Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>> >
>> >
>> >> "The E67 is the high-line controller in GM's new family of three 
>> >> engine
>> > control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in
>> > Powertrain's line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to
>> > conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128
>> > kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 
>> > 100
>> > functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction
>> > control
>> > calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different generation
>> > vehicle
>> > wiring systems, or LANs."
>> >>
>> >> I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the
>> >> most
>> > advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids,
>> > and
>> > all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for
>> > this
>> > ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I
>> think
>> > this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.
>> >>
>> >> Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Gmecm mailing list
>> >> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Gmecm mailing list
>> > Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gmecm mailing list
>> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From rgmecm at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 20 10:45:37 2007
From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:45:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <8634c6d70706200516k196cf366k8017cdabbc35427e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <398435.21328.qm@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Probably correct.  I believe they're programmed in Modula.  Since there are different calibrations available (I4, V6, V8), one should be able to compare them to get a better picture.





Tomas Sokorai <tsokorai at gmail.com> wrote: On 6/20/07, Darren Freed  wrote:
> Is it programmed already?  Have you been able to get a dump of the rom
> contents?  I'd love to have a look at that code!

With 32MB of Flash, you can bet the code is compiler-generated, and
unless the compiler is not very optimizing, the generated code will be
*very* hard to follow, unlike the old assembler-based codes, like the
C3 and P4 families.

Probably its not even hand-coded, but done using code generator tools.
Even less chances to reverse-engineer.

-- 
Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.
_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From darrenfreed at gmail.com  Wed Jun 20 13:10:03 2007
From: darrenfreed at gmail.com (Darren Freed)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:10:03 +0100
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <398435.21328.qm@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <8634c6d70706200516k196cf366k8017cdabbc35427e@mail.gmail.com>
	<398435.21328.qm@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f61eb5c30706201110j577c6fdbo6b33ceb226ac5c97@mail.gmail.com>

Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at the code and compare
various configurations.

HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters in the
calibration data.  If you really want to understand the PCM, it is useless,
because the file generated by a read of the pcm is encrypted - very
annoying.

Darren


On 6/20/07, Ryan Hess <rgmecm at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Probably correct.  I believe they're programmed in Modula.  Since there
> are different calibrations available (I4, V6, V8), one should be able to
> compare them to get a better picture.
>
>
>
>
>
> Tomas Sokorai <tsokorai at gmail.com> wrote: On 6/20/07, Darren Freed  wrote:
> > Is it programmed already?  Have you been able to get a dump of the rom
> > contents?  I'd love to have a look at that code!
>
> With 32MB of Flash, you can bet the code is compiler-generated, and
> unless the compiler is not very optimizing, the generated code will be
> *very* hard to follow, unlike the old assembler-based codes, like the
> C3 and P4 families.
>
> Probably its not even hand-coded, but done using code generator tools.
> Even less chances to reverse-engineer.
>
> --
> Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
>


From b.shaw at comcast.net  Wed Jun 20 16:10:59 2007
From: b.shaw at comcast.net (Bill Shaw)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:10:59 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <398435.21328.qm@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <398435.21328.qm@web35907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <467997E3.40707@comcast.net>

What processor is in it?

Bill

Ryan Hess wrote:
> Probably correct.  I believe they're programmed in Modula.  Since there are different calibrations available (I4, V6, V8), one should be able to compare them to get a better picture.
>
>
>
>
>
> Tomas Sokorai <tsokorai at gmail.com> wrote: On 6/20/07, Darren Freed  wrote:
>   
>> Is it programmed already?  Have you been able to get a dump of the rom
>> contents?  I'd love to have a look at that code!
>>     
>
> With 32MB of Flash, you can bet the code is compiler-generated, and
> unless the compiler is not very optimizing, the generated code will be
> *very* hard to follow, unlike the old assembler-based codes, like the
> C3 and P4 families.
>
> Probably its not even hand-coded, but done using code generator tools.
> Even less chances to reverse-engineer.
>
>   


From herningg at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 20 23:51:53 2007
From: herningg at hotmail.com (Garrett Herning)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:51:53 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY122-F9CCA5E633501B20B02DE9D9100@phx.gbl>

Hi,

One thing I would be interested in (both for where I work and personally) 
are the CAN bus protocols that are used to communicate with the rest of the 
vehcile. Specifically on how to talk with the controllers in the 
transmission.

Anyone know where to find some good info on this? Thanks,

Garrett


>From: Ryan Hess <rgmecm at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:33:13 -0700 (PDT)
>
>"The E67 is the high-line controller in GM?s new family of three engine 
>control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in 
>Powertrain?s line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to 
>conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128 
>kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 100 
>functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction 
>control calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different 
>generation vehicle wiring systems, or LANs."
>
>I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the most 
>advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids, and 
>all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for this 
>ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I think 
>this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.
>
>Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?
>_______________________________________________
>Gmecm mailing list
>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm

_________________________________________________________________
Picture this ? share your photos and you could win big!  
http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us



From bcroe at juno.com  Wed Jun 20 23:56:48 2007
From: bcroe at juno.com (bcroe at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 23:56:48 -0500
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
Message-ID: <20070620.235932.1228.11.bcroe@juno.com>

I suppose there is no physical access to the computer 
(data & memory) buses.  If there were, equipment could 
pick up the actual code.  

20 Jun 07  "Darren Freed" <darrenfreed at gmail.com> writes:
> Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at 
> the code and compare various configurations.
> 
> HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters 
> in the calibration data.  If you really want to understand the 
> PCM, it is useless, because the file generated by a read 
> of the pcm is encrypted - very annoying.
> 
> Darren


From rgmecm at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 21 15:16:26 2007
From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <BAY122-F9CCA5E633501B20B02DE9D9100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <534031.33061.qm@web35901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The ongoing dissection can be seen here:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/083737.html

Anyone have any suggestions on how this is "supposed" to come apart?  

>From: Ryan Hess 
>Reply-To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:33:13 -0700 (PDT)
>
>"The E67 is the high-line controller in GM?s new family of three engine 
>control modules (ECM), which will direct nearly all the engines in 
>Powertrain?s line-up. It features 32-bit processing, compared to 
>conventional 16-bit processing, with 32 megabytes of flash memory, 128 
>kilobytes of RAM and a high-speed CAN bus. It synchronizes more than 100 
>functions, from spark timing to cruise control operation to traction 
>control calculations, and it will work in vehicles with different 
>generation vehicle wiring systems, or LANs."
>
>I just bought one to take apart and tinker with.  It's supposedly the most 
>advanced ECM in GM's lineup.  It can handle VVT phasers, DoD solenoids, and 
>all kinds of extras.  There are many applications and calibrations for this 
>ECM, including I4, V6 and V8.  Considering mine just cost me $60, I think 
>this would be a great base for a cheap aftermarket controller.
>
>Is anyone interested in working on a project like this?
>_______________________________________________
>Gmecm mailing list
>Gmecm at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm

_________________________________________________________________
Picture this ? share your photos and you could win big!  
http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From wopontour at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 21 15:48:47 2007
From: wopontour at hotmail.com (WopOnTour)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:48:47 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
References: <20070620.235932.1228.11.bcroe@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY122-DAV15D5A0B0A5913AB7374707BA100@phx.gbl>

Since almost ALL aspects of the E67 calibration can currently be 
altered/modified via HP Tuners, doesn't this mean that the decompiled 
calibration and OS data must be floating around out there in cyber-space 
somewhere?
This was so obviously NOT something that was "backwards engineered"...
WOT
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bcroe at juno.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


>I suppose there is no physical access to the computer
> (data & memory) buses.  If there were, equipment could
> pick up the actual code.
>
> 20 Jun 07  "Darren Freed" <darrenfreed at gmail.com> writes:
>> Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at
>> the code and compare various configurations.
>>
>> HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters
>> in the calibration data.  If you really want to understand the
>> PCM, it is useless, because the file generated by a read
>> of the pcm is encrypted - very annoying.
>>
>> Darren
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From jlg-sep at comcast.net  Thu Jun 21 16:17:37 2007
From: jlg-sep at comcast.net (Scott Peitzsch)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:17:37 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
References: <20070620.235932.1228.11.bcroe@juno.com>
	<BAY122-DAV15D5A0B0A5913AB7374707BA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000e01c7b449$995909b0$6401a8c0@HPDESKTOP>

Nope - not at all likely to have been "backwards engineered".

Me thinks the more likely method was "backdoor engineered".

As in - documentation made its way out the back door!<g>

-Scott

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WopOnTour" <wopontour at hotmail.com>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


> Since almost ALL aspects of the E67 calibration can currently be 
> altered/modified via HP Tuners, doesn't this mean that the decompiled 
> calibration and OS data must be floating around out there in cyber-space 
> somewhere?
> This was so obviously NOT something that was "backwards engineered"...
> WOT
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <bcroe at juno.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:56 PM
> Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
> 
> 
>>I suppose there is no physical access to the computer
>> (data & memory) buses.  If there were, equipment could
>> pick up the actual code.
>>
>> 20 Jun 07  "Darren Freed" <darrenfreed at gmail.com> writes:
>>> Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at
>>> the code and compare various configurations.
>>>
>>> HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters
>>> in the calibration data.  If you really want to understand the
>>> PCM, it is useless, because the file generated by a read
>>> of the pcm is encrypted - very annoying.



From rgmecm at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 21 17:53:29 2007
From: rgmecm at yahoo.com (Ryan Hess)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 15:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <000e01c7b449$995909b0$6401a8c0@HPDESKTOP>
Message-ID: <325548.68621.qm@web35904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

New information posted, including CPU info.

Scott Peitzsch <jlg-sep at comcast.net> wrote: Nope - not at all likely to have been "backwards engineered".

Me thinks the more likely method was "backdoor engineered".

As in - documentation made its way out the back door!

-Scott

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "WopOnTour" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


> Since almost ALL aspects of the E67 calibration can currently be 
> altered/modified via HP Tuners, doesn't this mean that the decompiled 
> calibration and OS data must be floating around out there in cyber-space 
> somewhere?
> This was so obviously NOT something that was "backwards engineered"...
> WOT
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:56 PM
> Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
> 
> 
>>I suppose there is no physical access to the computer
>> (data & memory) buses.  If there were, equipment could
>> pick up the actual code.
>>
>> 20 Jun 07  "Darren Freed"  writes:
>>> Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at
>>> the code and compare various configurations.
>>>
>>> HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters
>>> in the calibration data.  If you really want to understand the
>>> PCM, it is useless, because the file generated by a read
>>> of the pcm is encrypted - very annoying.

_______________________________________________
Gmecm mailing list
Gmecm at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm



From sfeaver at magma.ca  Thu Jun 21 19:47:59 2007
From: sfeaver at magma.ca (Scott Feaver)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:47:59 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] Oxygen sensor question
References: <107571.88017.qm@web35914.mail.mud.yahoo.com><003d01c7b2e8$0d6c32e0$03000004@davis><000a01c7b2f7$3c0e39e0$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8><f61eb5c30706192318k5293850bo7b366c501562f844@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c7b350$2df2f040$6501a8c0@fci9bo2ay5h5y8>
Message-ID: <008c01c7b466$fb33fa60$aa00a8c0@new>

Anybody know what the differences are between a Acdelco AFS105 oxygen 
sensor, and a 213-360 sensor?

The 1997 Astro has that first one, but the 1998 uses the second.   Any 
differences that anyone knows of?   The 97 also has a fourth sensor, whereas 
the 98 has only three.   I wasnt able to find any technical specs online.

Thanks,
Scott 



From lwester at lincsat.com  Thu Jun 21 20:53:22 2007
From: lwester at lincsat.com (Programmer)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:53:22 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
References: <20070620.235932.1228.11.bcroe@juno.com><BAY122-DAV15D5A0B0A5913AB7374707BA100@phx.gbl>
	<000e01c7b449$995909b0$6401a8c0@HPDESKTOP>
Message-ID: <001801c7b470$25619f00$0200a8c0@WESTER2>

It's not what you know....its' 'who' you know.

Lyndon.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Peitzsch" <jlg-sep at comcast.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


> Nope - not at all likely to have been "backwards engineered".
>
> Me thinks the more likely method was "backdoor engineered".
>
> As in - documentation made its way out the back door!<g>
>
> -Scott
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WopOnTour" <wopontour at hotmail.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>
>
>> Since almost ALL aspects of the E67 calibration can currently be 
>> altered/modified via HP Tuners, doesn't this mean that the decompiled 
>> calibration and OS data must be floating around out there in cyber-space 
>> somewhere?
>> This was so obviously NOT something that was "backwards engineered"...
>> WOT
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <bcroe at juno.com>
>> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:56 PM
>> Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>>
>>
>>>I suppose there is no physical access to the computer
>>> (data & memory) buses.  If there were, equipment could
>>> pick up the actual code.
>>>
>>> 20 Jun 07  "Darren Freed" <darrenfreed at gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at
>>>> the code and compare various configurations.
>>>>
>>>> HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters
>>>> in the calibration data.  If you really want to understand the
>>>> PCM, it is useless, because the file generated by a read
>>>> of the pcm is encrypted - very annoying.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm 



From jay at vessels-clan.com  Thu Jun 21 21:05:36 2007
From: jay at vessels-clan.com (Jay Vessels)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:05:36 -0400
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
In-Reply-To: <001801c7b470$25619f00$0200a8c0@WESTER2>
References: <20070620.235932.1228.11.bcroe@juno.com><BAY122-DAV15D5A0B0A5913AB7374707BA100@phx.gbl>	<000e01c7b449$995909b0$6401a8c0@HPDESKTOP>
	<001801c7b470$25619f00$0200a8c0@WESTER2>
Message-ID: <467B2E70.1010108@vessels-clan.com>

Hi there!

Or whose lawyers sign the NDAs...  I'd guess GM probably licensed the 
requisite information to do said tuning.

Jay Vessels
1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 (TBI pending)

Programmer wrote:
> It's not what you know....its' 'who' you know.
> 
> Lyndon.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Peitzsch" <jlg-sep at comcast.net>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
> 
> 
>> Nope - not at all likely to have been "backwards engineered".
>>
>> Me thinks the more likely method was "backdoor engineered".
>>
>> As in - documentation made its way out the back door!<g>
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "WopOnTour" <wopontour at hotmail.com>
>> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>>
>>
>>> Since almost ALL aspects of the E67 calibration can currently be 
>>> altered/modified via HP Tuners, doesn't this mean that the decompiled 
>>> calibration and OS data must be floating around out there in 
>>> cyber-space somewhere?
>>> This was so obviously NOT something that was "backwards engineered"...
>>> WOT
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bcroe at juno.com>
>>> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:56 PM
>>> Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>>>
>>>
>>>> I suppose there is no physical access to the computer
>>>> (data & memory) buses.  If there were, equipment could
>>>> pick up the actual code.
>>>>
>>>> 20 Jun 07  "Darren Freed" <darrenfreed at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at
>>>>> the code and compare various configurations.
>>>>>
>>>>> HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters
>>>>> in the calibration data.  If you really want to understand the
>>>>> PCM, it is useless, because the file generated by a read
>>>>> of the pcm is encrypted - very annoying.



From wopontour at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 21 23:18:35 2007
From: wopontour at hotmail.com (WopOnTour)
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:18:35 -0600
Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
References: <20070620.235932.1228.11.bcroe@juno.com><BAY122-DAV15D5A0B0A5913AB7374707BA100@phx.gbl>
	<000e01c7b449$995909b0$6401a8c0@HPDESKTOP>
Message-ID: <BAY122-DAV10D9FB392A1B32985DCE08BA170@phx.gbl>

LOL
My thoughts EXACTLY Scott!
WOT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Peitzsch" <jlg-sep at comcast.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM


> Nope - not at all likely to have been "backwards engineered".
>
> Me thinks the more likely method was "backdoor engineered".
>
> As in - documentation made its way out the back door!<g>
>
> -Scott
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WopOnTour" <wopontour at hotmail.com>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>
>
>> Since almost ALL aspects of the E67 calibration can currently be 
>> altered/modified via HP Tuners, doesn't this mean that the decompiled 
>> calibration and OS data must be floating around out there in cyber-space 
>> somewhere?
>> This was so obviously NOT something that was "backwards engineered"...
>> WOT
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <bcroe at juno.com>
>> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:56 PM
>> Subject: [Gmecm] The next step: E67 ECM
>>
>>
>>>I suppose there is no physical access to the computer
>>> (data & memory) buses.  If there were, equipment could
>>> pick up the actual code.
>>>
>>> 20 Jun 07  "Darren Freed" <darrenfreed at gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Nevertheless it would be very interesting to look at
>>>> the code and compare various configurations.
>>>>
>>>> HPTuners is fine if all you want to do is adjust parameters
>>>> in the calibration data.  If you really want to understand the
>>>> PCM, it is useless, because the file generated by a read
>>>> of the pcm is encrypted - very annoying.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gmecm mailing list
> Gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/gmecm
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm
> 



From DOZIERHC at aol.com  Sat Jun 23 12:34:39 2007
From: DOZIERHC at aol.com (DOZIERHC at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:34:39 EDT
Subject: [Gmecm] Anybody got a $4D VIN"Z" BIN available?
Message-ID: <cd3.13c252ca.33aeb3af@aol.com>

I need to get a stock base 4.3L V6 TBI calibration for some work on a  TBI 
conversio