[Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
phil
phillipmarx
Tue Nov 13 00:43:37 UTC 2012
Just the first page response to query, non-linear "corrections" can be done before and/or behind for multiple knees.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Saar
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
to simplfy the flex-fuel stuff, i believe there are ICs out there that will convert a frequency to a voltage, so that would make things much simpler to deal with.
IIRC, the 8708 is the 90-91 W-body Quad4 ECM, which SEEMS to be a mix between the 7749 and 9396 in that it has both injector drivers, i think all of the quad drivers/ICs and even the SRAM module, all in the 7727 style case.
my only real gripes with it is complete lack of availablility(Quad4 W-bodies were quite rare when new, let alone now) and the mentioned addressing issue... it's been mentioned on TGO before, but i don't remember much about it at the moment.
my bench is setup for a 9396 now, so i would think it would be able to plug and play, but i don't know if it's an option worth pursuing.
--- On Mon, 11/12/12, dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com> wrote:
From: dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 7:19 PM
Robert...
I would use a GM MAF sensor. Frequency based. So that will not be an issue as well.
My soldering skills are pretty good, and I have done some surface mount stuff before. So if it comes to that, its not a big deal.
I don't think that Heinz will be using EGR with his setup, so no problem with missing EGR code for PWM.
I HAVE thought about going flex-fuel on the Europa using the GM flex-fuel sensor (its a 50 to 150Hz signal for 0 to 100% ETOH). But I doubt anybody else needs/wants that. I would require one of the two pulse accumulator channels on the 727/730/749 ECM series if it was implemented, and IIRC you have other plans for that PA channel.
BTW, I have a 1228708 ECM lying around if you wanted to try it on your bench with your nAst1 code. This ECM is an underhood with both injector channels like a 749, but I have heard that they can be tempermental with code space.
But if you have a test bench setup (I don't at the moment) I could send it to you. We both live in Michigan.
Hank
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Saar <robertisaar at yahoo.com>
To: gmecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Mon, Nov 12, 2012 7:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
the NVRAM setup is mapped from 2000-2FFF IIRC, the SRAM in the 9396(which is what i have made all of my changes for) is mapped from 1800-1FFF. it would be great if the NVRAM could be moved around to be mapped differently, BUT i could probably impliment a small patch that would move the values i store in the 1800 range to the 2000 range to make it compatible with either a 9396 or a 7727/7730/7749 with the NVRAM mod. oddly enough, the existing A1 code does make use of some of the SRAM that it never received in certain scenarios. so those may also need to be moved as well, but it's fairly limited, i think mostly PWM EGR and some early 4T60E stuff. probably nothing you'll need.
i'll have to take a look to see what the missing quad driver controls, but apparently the Quad4 cars(only a single year used the 7749, i think) and the Sy/Ty trucks got away without it, so it must not have been extremely important.
crank trigger, IAC, IAT, CTS sound fine. the MAFs that i'm adding support for operate in the ~2000 to ~10000 Hz range, not sure if you're planning on using the vane meter or not, but i imagine those are variable voltage rather than variable frequency.
i'm planning on adding the capability to blend MAF and MAP readings together for the fuel calculations, probably with an adjustable "blender" scalar to use one more than the other, if desired.
--- On Mon, 11/12/12, dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com> wrote:
From: dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 6:11 PM
Robert...
I can scavange an SRAM IC from a 16149396 (I have a couple) and install if needed. I guess maybe a better way is to use MonteCarSlow's (Moates) NVRAM setup if needed.
I don't think the missing quad driver is an issue, but could populate that as well in the 749 ECM.
As for the Europa, the VRS pulses per rev (2 per engine revolution) would come from a crank trigger setup, and the IAC would be a GM pintle stepper motor type mounted onto the throttle body bypass.
The engine itself has individual throttle bodies, but a plenum over them that leads to at present a vane air meter. I really would like both a MAF and MAP type setup for it.. IAT and CTS are easy. Use GM sensors.
Both engines are only 1bar (normally aspirated), so no need for 3bar MAP sensor, and both are manual transmissions.
The Fiero VSS and a VSS for my Europa are probably going to require some thinking, as I think neither of us has the 4k mag setup that most later GM cars use.
Hank
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Saar <robertisaar at yahoo.com>
To: gmecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Mon, Nov 12, 2012 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
the duke with a dizzy or the later DIS system would be fine, assuming the injectors are compatible.
the 7749.... compared to a 7730 is missing a quad driver(i forget which), so you'll lose 4 outputs. assuming you don't need them, it's a non-issue. it also doesn't have the extra SRAM of a 16149396, so anything utilizing the extra RAM also cannot be dealt with unless you are skilled enough with SMD soldering to integrate it in there. for that matter, you could also add in the missing quad driver and basically have a non-underhood 16149396 with a second injector driver.
stuff REQUIRING the extra SRAM are currently:
4 circuit PRNDL decoder
TCC PWM
transmission temp sensor
3BAR MAP items
everything else should run just fine in a normal 7727/7730 and the 7749 so long as specific outputs aren't trying to be used.
i know nothing about Lotus Europas, so i can't really comment on what will and won't work beyond "does it generate the correct signals and are the driven components compatible?".
--- On Mon, 11/12/12, dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com> wrote:
From: dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 5:11 PM
Robert......
I was thinking about at least a friend's Fiero. He has one of those rare DOHC head conversions of the Patty Duke that he got a while ago when Pontiac made them. That engine could run either the GM waste spark setup or possibly a distributor.
I also myself have a non-GM application in a Lotus Europa.
Both engines are capable of 7500 rpm, and the ECM I was thinking of using would be a 1227749 version (has two injector drivers and can run 4 low-Z injectors).
Hank
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Saar <robertisaar at yahoo.com>
To: gmecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Mon, Nov 12, 2012 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
as long as the ICM/distributor creates a 2X signal(for a 4 cylinder, 3X for 6, 4X for 8), then i don't see any reason why it wouldn't. just don't try natively driving more than a single low-impedance injector or up to 8 high-impedance injectors on an unmodified PCM. the injector driver's don't like that at all.
what 4 cylinder do you have in mind? the only one i can think of that this excludes would be the quad4 due to the injectors, though i may have an acceptable workaround for that other than outright replacing the injectors.
--- On Mon, 11/12/12, dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com> wrote:
From: dozierhc at aol.com <dozierhc at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 11:24 AM
Robert...
Can your nAst1 code work with a four-cylinder, or is it hard-coded for only the V6 (60 degree) GM engines.
Some of the modifications you have done, especially the VE and MAF seem to be ideal for running on a four cylinder engine.
Thanks,
Hank
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Saar <robertisaar at yahoo.com>
To: gmecm <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 8:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
and here's the quick run-through of the MAF HZ calculation.
3FC6 (only used in this subroutine) - no actual purpose other than to grab value and compare it to itself to see if 3FF8 should be grabbed again
3FF8 (only used in this subroutine) - stored to AA
double byte 11A - old AA value. gets loaded, then inverted via NEGA/NEGB, A rounded, then AA added to it, then stored to AE
double byte AA - current 3FF8 value. copied to 11A(delta?).
double byte AE - is AA + inverted 11A
double byte 11C - old AC value. loaded, inverted, A rounded, AC added, compared, then divide with AE
double byte AC - current 3FC6 value. copied to 11C(delta?).
11C is inverted, then AC is added to it, compared against a few values, then the divide with AE, creates 16-bit Hz X 1
now, the two big hardware locations are 3FC6 and 3FF8, both of which i've noticed in A1 already, so that's good news. in the 2E hack, 3FC6 is noted as "PA2 counter", so it is a pulse accumulator. it now makes sense how all of these values are intertwined. 3FF8 is also used in 2E in basically the same manner as well. the 2E PCM(used in 94-95 3.4DOHC W-bodies is basically an underhood version of the 94-95 3100 A-Body PCM) is also a P4 unit, so all of this is checking out quite well.
also, the AE XDF that is floating around on the internet? it's not quite accurate.... not sure where it came from, but from the couple of things i've specifically looked at, there are some changes that need made to be correct. the MAF tables were one of them. $AE is limited to 256 grams/sec (2E is limited to 512 grams/sec due to having a MAF table scalar and offset).
--- On Sat, 11/10/12, David Allen <davida1 at hiwaay.net> wrote:
From: David Allen <davida1 at hiwaay.net>
Subject: [Gmecm] Buick 3300 LG7 MAF Program...
To: "David Allen" <davida1 at hiwaay.net>, robertissar at yahoo.com, "GM-ECM" <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 11:29 AM
Hi Robert. Attached are 2 .bin files. My chip reader wouldn't auto-detect the chip size, so I read it as a 27C256 and as a 27C512. If these are not usable I can adjust and read it again. Normally it auto detects the chip size, so I hope this doesn't mean the chip was corrupt or damaged.
This MEMCAL (AXAT 9713) was installed in the 8706 ECM I got from junkyard from a 90's Cutlass Ciera 3300 car.
Hope this helps you to improve your nAst1 code MAF function! Will be interested to hear what you find.
Sincerely,
David
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