Magnetic saturation v electronic saturation

[Peter Wales]

I suggested that a coil would be come saturated when the voltage on the
collector emitter junction showed a rise to the Vce sat level. Thinking
about it a little more, I may be wrong, or I may not be.

If you drive a transistor really hard, then it goes into saturation. If
there is no voltage on the collector, there will be no voltage across the
emitter - collector junction. 

If there is no current drawn through the collector then will there be a Vce
sat voltage?

If a lot of current is drawn, will the Vce sat voltage be the same? 

My original contention was that the transistor goes into saturation
immediately (sic) on application of the drive current, but the significant
Vce sat voltage will not occur until the coil is fully saturated and there
is no change in current flow. This, because the current and voltage are out
of phase until the coil is saturated.

What do you think?

Peter