O2 sensor bias/ a/f curves

[Clare Snyder]

Greg Hermann wrote:
> 
> >>
> >Here is the story on NTK sensors: NTK/NGK sold the air/fuel marketing
> >rights to Horiba here in Ann Arbor. They mark the price WAY UP for
> >even the cheapest model. If you are using for microproc control like
> >some latest DFI and the excellent FelPro, THEN you can get from NTK
> >directly if you SIGN a legal agreemeent. Price from a quote I got
> >are: Interface box-$400, Sensor-$600, harness-$60.
> >
> >A number of vendors have thougt about builing a cheap NGK 5 wire
> >a/f meter, BUT Horiba lawyers are very aggresive in protecting their
> >profit margins. It is pretty dumb. They could license to one of the
> >vendors and make money on that without really affecting their sales to
> >companies like Ford etc.
> 
> All---
> 
> To me this stinks. A horriba situation, as it were.
> 
> I got a quote from NTK of more like $600 for the whole ball of wax, along
> with an agreement to sign agreeing to no resale and to use only on an
> onboard vehicle engine management system, as well as specifically no
> exhaust analyzer equipment use.
> 
> Was it Clare?? who said yesterday that you can get the sensors from Honda
> for $300?? If so, what part # and for what car or cars??? If Honda dealers
> are  selling them for $300, you can bet that there is a plant somewhere
> making the sensors in which someone would feel they were robbing you (but
> would be willing to get their idea of richer) by selling the same sensors
> out the back door to someone for $50 or less. Any detectives out there, in
> the right part of the world?
> 
> For example, I can remember buying Boge made rubber pivot bushings for a
> Volvo front suspension (which US Volvo dealers sold for about $35 each) for
> less than $5 from a guy who was making money at it,and not doing any
> stealin or receiving any stolen goods!! No racial (or politically
> incorrect) generalizations intended here, but I think that Asian people
> invented these kind of commercial games a millenium or so before the
> Europeans even began to play them. I can also remember working for an
> outfit that sold Vega timing belts to Chevy for $2.80 (Chevy dealers sold
> them fo about $37.50).
> 
> As far as the NTK "black box", the operating descriptions from NTK indicate
> that it has to have some digital insides, but hey, don't we have a few
> hackers on list?? I would bet that once the box were reverse engineered
> (who us?) that hardware cost would not exceed $40 or so.
> 
> To quote something that the (then) Dean Emeritus of Cornell's Engineering
> School said to me in a private moment about 25 years ago, "Lawyers are
> nothing but a parasite on the face of progress!" In the years since, I
> think that they have mutated to where they have even BETTER holding power
> than a crab. And I mean a crotch cricket, not the kind you eat!
> 
> To me this is a situation where someone has invested money retentively in
> order to profit (more) by keeping a product less productive than it would
> otherwise be for the economy, the environment, and society (and us). If the
> law can't (or won't) correct such situations, I believe that those of us
> who can, should! How about it, guys and girls?? Are we all hackers at heart
> or not??
> 
> Regards, Greg
49 state '92-'95+ Civic 1.5 VTEC.Possibly others. 5 wire ION PUMP type
sensor. 
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                           Clare Snyder
                         Waterloo, Ontario