High MPG electic raving

[Clare Snyder]

Christopher G. Moog wrote:
> 
> Richard W. Cowan wrote:
> 
> > <delurk>
> > Yes, ICEs are incredibly inefficient, and probably no amount of tweaking
> > will ever make it as good as electric.  Turbines are excellent compared to
> > ICEs but they suck for stop-n-go.  That's why they make great airplane
> > engines and lousy auto engines.
> 
> Besides steady power requirements turbines don't size down well.  Clearances
> along the edges remain the same size in large units as small so the small units
> are less efficient.  This is while in small power generation (less than tens of
> kW diesel rule).  Also why in trains and ships diesels are still the most popular
> power plant.
> 
> > This is probably [nc], but IMO the words "automobile" and "efficient" are
> > never going to go together until they are all switched to electric sometime
> > (before you can say dead oil lobby).  Then we'll have to change the list
> > from DYIEFI to DYI(more amperage!).  (Of course the electricity to charge
> > the batteries will still be generated by coal-burning plants until we
> > switch to nuclear).  Hopefully by then we will be beyond the days of the
> > electric-golf-cart-with-a-sloop-rig-for-windy-days.
> >
> > I had the opportunity to drive the GM EV1 and a Rav4 EV.  The batteries are
> > still friggin huge, range sucked, its still expensive, but the power output
> > at the wheels was far beyond what I expected.  The future doesn't look
> > quite so dim anymore.
> >
> > Sorry for the rambling
> >
> > Richard BME '96, GA Tech.  Go Jackets!
> > http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~vap1rc
> 
>   As far as electric goes they use more energy per mile than an efficient ICE
> automobile.  The EV1 uses 248 watt-hrs/mi (measured at the charger)  The RAV4
> uses 412 watt-hrs/mi (again at the charger)  This electricity is produced at a
> fossil fueled plant (the energy used by EVs should be counted against the
> incremental generator not the base plants since they represent a new load).
> These plants need approximately 10,000 btus of fuel to produce 1,000 watt-hour of
> energy.  So the EV1 uses the equivalent of 2480 btus to travel a mile.  Since
> gasoline has 114,000 btus per gallon the EV1 is getting the equivalent of 46
> mpg.  The RAV4EV is getting the equivalent of 28 mpg.  Neither of these figures
> beats a good ICE vehicle with the same performance.
> 
> To reduce oil use with electric vehicles will require a nuclear based electrical
> system.  Until that happens we should save fuel by using mass transit (where
> available), efficient ICE (vehicles not inefficient EVs and not SUVs), and by
> cutting wasted travel.

In Ontario, we have been running on nuclear energy for many years. The
CANDU is supposed to be the best system out there - and we are shutting
virtually ALL of them down. Problems with maintenance and expense -
Mabee if they privatise the system someone will manage to run it
efficiently, but what about safely? I'm of a mixed mind on the subject.

As for the efficiency arguement, a LARGE turbine is more efficient than
a small one, and constant load helps too. Therfore, a properly designed
oil or NG fired turbine generator can be a lot more efficient than
current designs. Even with generator and transmission losses, the EV of
tomorrow, including power generation, will likely be more efficient and
less poluting on the whole than anything that exists today, and than any
ICE of tomorrow. However, the EV of tomorrow will NOT depend on the grid
for power. Ballard Energy, and others of their ilk, will see to that.
Fuel cells will be the future.
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