High MPG

Wed May 6 13:58:42 GMT 1998

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---------------------- Forwarded by John R Bucknell/JTE/Chrysler on
05/06/98 09:57 AM ---------------------------

From: John R Bucknell on 05/04/98 04:32 PM

To:   owner-diy_efi @ efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
cc:
Subject:  Re: High MPG

Believe it or not, the Chrysler Patriot project was shelved because it
never got the output necessary to run LeMans.  Don't know the particulars,
but lots of screwball ideas were incorporated: Two-stage turbo-alternators
with combustion chamber preheat, compressed (or was it liquid) natural gas
fuel, super-duper flywheel energy storage, two-speed electric motor with
regenerative braking and massive power switching module.  On top of all
that, pure water was used for cooling of motor and get this: was fluid used
in turbine's journal bearings instead of oil.  I got to see a presentation
by the Patriot team about two years ago, all of two months before the
project was cancelled.

As to thermal efficiency, the limiting factor for turbines in cars is the
temperature delta needed from intake to combustion.  Airliners get away
with it by running way up high where it's cold, but automotive uses would
start from room temperature and the materials needed to run at the same
temperature delta are super expensive.  Reheat has been done with other
methods than the Patriot (which basically had a sleeve around the
combustion chamber where intake air flowed), namely a rotating ceramic grid
that exhaust passed through and then that heat is carried around into the
intake stream.  Problem was sealing the exhaust gases away from the intake.
But it did work, doubling fuel economy for of all things LeMans (1972?).
Still was way underpowered with miserable throttle response.  So reheat
works for thermal efficiency, but not for output.
---------------------- Forwarded by John R Bucknell/JTE/Chrysler on
05/04/98 03:49 PM ---------------------------

 (Embedded                                                        
 image moved   owner-diy_efi @ efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu          
 to file:      05/04/98 02:47 PM                                  
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Please respond to diy_efi at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu @ SMTP

To:   diy_efi @ efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu @ SMTP
cc:
Subject:  Re: High MPG

Yes, I agree. In fact, I think that if as much time, effort, and money was
put into the development of a turbine engine (like the Chrysler one) as has
been put into the engines we currently run, the "200 MPG carb" type idea
would be a case of "so what!" In the case of the Chrysler turbine, it had a
very ingeneous heat transfer drvice that recycled otherwise wasted heat
from
the exhaust to the intake, thereby making the engine more efficient (this
is
a bit more difficult with the IC engine to say the least - basically, it
has
to be stored as chemical potential energy within the fuel, and this can
only
be done by chemically altering the fuel with an endothermic reaction). The
problem that I can see with the heat exchanger is that it didn't exchange
enough of the exhaust heat. Obviously, if it exchanged more, with a greater
efficiency, the engine would be more efficient - it's basic thermodynamics,
and it's even given a name - "Regenerative cycle" ie. recycle waste heat
energy to raise the efficiency of the engine. And guess what... It's
easiest
to do with some sort of turbine. Perhaps someone should revisit the old
Chrisler engine and make the heat exchanger more efficient???

Danny Barrett.

>>Something you mentioned: I know of Charles Nelson Pogue's "200 MPG carb."
>>And I know about the chemistry of how it worked, and why its results were
>>not very reliable (I know more about the chemistry of it than he did at
the
>>time - but this doesn't take much). Asside from this, Pogue stated in an
>
>Unfortunately, these kind of devices and technology are basically bandaids
>to a much greater problem, one of great inefficiency.  A pushrod engine is
>about as ineffecient as an engine can get, however it does have its
merits.
> I think once engineers start moving away from a 100 year old design,
>things will definately get better mileage wise.  I don't have the URLs
>handy, however there are two such engines that have strayed away from
>pushrods, but replacing the rotating assembly with a giant Cam.  The cam,
>instead of controlling valve timing, is driven by the pistons, which are
>configured in a radial fashion.  The one engine that is running (and in
the
>internet), creates very little horsepower, however the torque it generates
>phenominal as compared to its weight, size, and configuration.
>
>I think pushrod engines waste something in the neighborhood of 80% of the
>available power in the gasoline.
>
>
>Frederic Breitwieser
>Bridgeport, CT 06606
>
>Homebrew Automotive Website:
>http://www.xephic.dynip.com/
>
>1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental
>1989 HMMWV
>2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car
>
>-
>
>

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