Remove me from this list please
Patrick Anglum
panglum at nortelnetworks.com
Tue Dec 7 15:49:18 GMT 1999
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Patrick Anglum
Passport 4400 Development
4100 Guardian Street M/S NE
Simi Valley, CA 93063-3397
panglum at nortelnetworks.com
> % (805) 577-2288
> % ESN 495-2288
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
> [SMTP:DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 2:00 AM
> To: DIY_EFI-Digest at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
> Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #678
>
>
> DIY_EFI Digest Monday, December 6 1999 Volume 04 : Number
> 678
>
>
>
> In this issue:
>
> Getting facts straight!! (2/2)
> Re: Signal of AMC 16
> Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #672
> re: Add-on systems which affect output pulse width?
>
> See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the
> DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:17:59 -0700
> From: bearbvd at cmn.net (Greg Hermann)
> Subject: Getting facts straight!! (2/2)
>
> (continued from 1/2)
>
> I have no hard numbers to back up this contention, YET, but I suspect that
> if a port injected engine had MUCH BETTER fuel atomization than is
> attainable with current art injectors, and a much quicker fuel squirt--one
> timed with the high velocity flow of air in the port--that it would not
> only make more power AND have a lower BSFC at WOT conditions, but would
> ALSO want a mixture somewhat RICHER of stoich for maximum power than is
> the
> case with current art port injected engines! WHY?? evaporatin fuel on the
> back side of a hot intake valve allows fuel vapor to displace
> air--reducing
> output, whereas--getting finely atomized fuel into the cylinder, and not
> vaporizing much of it 'til after the I valve has closed not only avoids
> displacement of inlet air by fuel vapor, but takes full advantage of the
> heat absorbtion effect (as detailed above) during the compression stroke.
> - ------------------------------------------
>
> As to the best ECONOMY mixture--going lean of stoich tends to insure
> burning every last bit of the fuel, and thus improves economy. The limit
> is
> usually when one approaches a lean misfire condition. (Misfires waste
> fuel.) Better fuel atomization and distribution BOTH work to push this
> limit further out. Also--the basic Otto cycle efficiency, even at WOT,
> improves with a leaner mixture. Good chamber geometry and good mixture
> turbulence during combustion push the lean limit further out, as well as
> allowing better efficiency through higher compression ratio (by avoiding
> pre-ignition and/or detonation). Furthermore-- leaner mixtures at part
> throttle (with a spark ignition engine) reduce pumping losses, improving
> economy even further at part throttle. SO--how far lean of stoich is best
> for economy--the answer is--"As far as you can get away with!"--not some
> set rule! It all depends on a large number of engine design factors.
>
> So--what are we left with that is magical about stoich? The facts that a
> stoich mixture is the point where a three way catalyst works best for
> cleaning up tailpipe emissions and that it is also the point where a
> standard EGO or HEGO exhaust oxygen sensor (as opposed to a UEGO WBO2
> sensor) switches its output. Period.
>
> In closing--I would like to say that this list will return to far better
> health once it finally get put onto a different server, and can FINALLY
> get
> off of the #$%^^&^*& digest mode--too many of the really knowlegeable
> people here have been driven into the lurk mode by the digest format!
>
> AND--the trick to getting good information off of the internet is the same
> as it is anywhere else in life--one has to learn to sort useful
> information
> out from BS!! There are always plenty of people in any field who are
> willing to spread BS indiscriminately, usually without knowing any better,
> but sometimes with premeditation and for profit! Good, old fashioned
> fundamental education taken together with the ability and experience with
> applying it is one of the most effective tools for accomplishing this
> sorting process!
>
> Unfortunately, high performance engines seem to attract more than their
> proportionate share of the BS and the profiteers (particularly the ones
> who
> feed on ignorance)!
>
> Although I am NOT going to be so bold as to say where, I WILL promise that
> there is a bunch of good information in this last series of posts--it's up
> to all of you to figure out where!
>
> Back to lurk mode, at least 'til we are off digest mode!
>
> Regards, Greg
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:01:24 +0800
> From: dzorde at erggroup.com
> Subject: Re: Signal of AMC 16
>
> Mike, I had a similar problem trying to interface my Chev HEI to the
> aftermarket
> ECU, made the car undrivable as it saw multiple crossovers of the same
> trigger.
> Try something along the lines of.
>
> 0.1uF 1k
> coil ------||------/\/\/\/\/---------|--------------ECU
> <
> > 1k
> >
> |
> ---- 15V zener
> diode
> 5W
> /\
> |
> gnd
> regards
>
> Dan dzorde at erggroup.com
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:56:23 -0500 (EST)
> From: Mike Comai <comai at expert.cc.purdue.edu>
> Subject: Ref. Signal off of AMC I6
>
> I am currently trying to get my first major retrofit up and running. I
> have everything installed and when I try to start it the injector's don't
> fire. I was told that I need a filter on the negative side of the coil
> and to feed the filtered signal into the Reference line on the ECM (which
> I am using a '747). I was given a design for a filter which looks like
> this:
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:14:04 +0800
> From: dzorde at erggroup.com
> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #672
>
> I'm doing this on my current s/c set-up (although car is not yet
> driveable),
> anyway a blow off valve just venting of the air during idle and light
> cruise.
> Put your foot down, the valve shuts and there is instant 17psi boost.
> Unlike a
> turbo, you don't get a pop when it opens, but more of a constant whistle
> as it
> lets a lot of air out unless wot.
>
> Due to the extremely hot air (currently don't have an intercooler yet) I'm
> reluctant to recirculate it through the intake filter (but due to the very
> loud
> whistle created by all this air veing vented in the engine bay I need to
> do
> something). Can anyone see a problem with feeding the air from the blow
> off
> valve into the exhaust system before the muffler and quieten it down this
> way.
> The line could be fed in at 45deg angle with the exhaust flow.
>
> Dan dzorde at erggroup.com
>
>
> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:02:36 -0500
> From: "Jonathan Davis" <jfd125 at psu.edu>
> Subject: Re: KLUTCH!!!
>
> Another way to do this, perhaps would be a large bypass valve that
> recirculates
> any boost until WOT. Something like that would be intoxicating to drive -
> nice
> fat kick in the pants at WOT...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 02:19:16 -0500
> From: Chris Conlon <synchris at ricochet.net>
> Subject: re: Add-on systems which affect output pulse width?
>
> "Andrew Brownsword" <asword at telus.net> wrote:
>
> > It seems to me that this could be problematic if the ECU was designed
> to
> >expect a particular voltage range and the stock airflow meter generated
> that
> >full range ... in other words there is no buffer for going beyond the
> >expected range of values. This seems fairly reasonable for an N/A engine
> >since it is extremely unlikely that the car will have to deal with >1
> >atmosphere.
>
> I'm not going to get into this, really. You may very well run
> into problems, especially with ignition timing, when you try to
> trick an NA ECU into running much boost. (If you aren't
> reprogramming it, that is.)
>
> > The alternative is to modify the ECU's output, which is a time
> dependant
> >pulse width. It simply isn't possible to have full remapping control
> over
> >the output because by the time you know what the pulse width is, the time
> at
> >which you have to send it to the injectors has passed. It occurred to me
>
> You can get very close, though, and very easily, in at least a
> couple different ways. This presumes you're running injectors a
> good bit larger than stock and will not need to lengthen the
> pulse. Take your basic HC11. Wire a switch (power mosfet most
> likely) in series with each injector drive circuit, watch for
> voltage drops, ground ref, etc. Control each switch via output
> compare line. Also wire up input compare lines so they can
> detect when the ECU is *trying* to fire the injector,
> independent of your switch's position. (If you have more than
> 4 independent injector drive circuits, see 68332 instead.) Now
> you can easily read RPM and load, more or less, via input
> compares. You have a map, and for each rpm/pulse width point,
> look up a new pulse width. (Or just multiply by old injector
> size / new injector size, correct for short PW, etc etc.)
> Leave each output compare line (switches) on, until the ecu
> fires that circuit. You'll get an interrupt and time count
> via input compare. Calculate how long you want the pulse to
> be, program output compare to turn off at that time. When IC
> turns off again, take another interrupt, turn OC back on.
>
> You can update RPM and desired-PW info at each injector firing
> if desired. It is "behind reality" but not by much. Issues
> exist with p&h drivers, need a dummy load, etc, or just supply
> your own drivers. (Assorted details omitted, none too tricky.)
>
> I already have to do this (and more besides) for my semi
> insane supercharged MR2 project, ugh. Lucky for me the ECU
> already understands boost, timing retard, knock sensing,
> etc, it just needs a few white lies about airflow & injector
> sizes.
>
>
> Now I had some questions for you, since you seem to know
> Ford/Mazda stuff well. I did some searching for answers
> but got confused and set it aside. I'd like to get an
> MX-3 v6, and do some engine swapping. I've heard that a
> 2.5l v6 from the MX-6 (or 626?) will basically drop in.
> Wasn't there a 2.5l *turbo* Ford Probe GT engine at one
> point? If so would it drop in w/o much work? Basically I
> think the MX-3 is cute and would get one if I knew I could
> grab a decent turbo engine (well, a whole front cut) from
> something and drop it in pretty easily. (Ignoring ECU hassles
> of course, got to have some fun!) I know there are aftermarket
> turbo kits, etc, but I was hoping for a factory turbo motor.
> Am I just real wrong or was there such a beast? I'm pretty
> sure there was a not-common MX-6 turbo... comments? Thoughts?
>
> TIA,
> Chris C.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #678
> *****************************
>
> To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command:
>
> subscribe diy_efi-digest
>
> in the body of a message to "Majordomo at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu".
>
> A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
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> above with "diy_efi".
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<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D6 FACE=3D"Brush Script MT">Patrick =
Anglum</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Passport 4400 Development</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">4100 Guardian Street M/S =
NE</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Simi Valley, CA 93063-3397</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">panglum at nortelnetworks.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#808080" FACE=3D"Monotype Sorts">%</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> (805) 577-2288 </FONT>
<BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#808080" FACE=3D"Monotype Sorts">%</FONT><FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> ESN 495-2288</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">From: </FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu =
[SMTP:DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">Monday, December 06, 1999 2:00 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">DIY_EFI-Digest at efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D1 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D1 FACE=3D"Arial">DIY_EFI Digest V4 #678</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">DIY_EFI =
Digest Monday, December 6 =
1999 Volume 04 : Number =
678</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">In this issue:</FONT>
</P>
<P> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Getting facts straight!! (2/2)</FONT>
<BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Re: Signal of AMC 16</FONT>
<BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #672</FONT>
<BR> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">re: Add-on systems which affect output pulse =
width?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">See the end of the digest for =
information on subscribing to the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing =
lists.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------=
-------------</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:17:59 =
-0700</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: bearbvd at cmn.net (Greg =
Hermann)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: Getting facts straight!! =
(2/2)</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">(continued from 1/2)</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I have no hard numbers to back up this =
contention, YET, but I suspect that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">if a port injected engine had MUCH =
BETTER fuel atomization than is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">attainable with current art =
injectors, and a much quicker fuel squirt--one</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">timed with the high velocity flow of =
air in the port--that it would not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">only make more power AND have a lower =
BSFC at WOT conditions, but would</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">ALSO want a mixture somewhat RICHER =
of stoich for maximum power than is the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">case with current art port injected =
engines! WHY?? evaporatin fuel on the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">back side of a hot intake valve =
allows fuel vapor to displace air--reducing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">output, whereas--getting finely =
atomized fuel into the cylinder, and not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">vaporizing much of it 'til after the =
I valve has closed not only avoids</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">displacement of inlet air by fuel =
vapor, but takes full advantage of the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">heat absorbtion effect (as detailed =
above) during the compression stroke.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">- =
------------------------------------------</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">As to the best ECONOMY mixture--going =
lean of stoich tends to insure</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">burning every last bit of the fuel, =
and thus improves economy. The limit is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">usually when one approaches a lean =
misfire condition. (Misfires waste</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">fuel.) Better fuel atomization and =
distribution BOTH work to push this</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">limit further out. Also--the =
basic Otto cycle efficiency, even at WOT,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">improves with a leaner mixture. Good =
chamber geometry and good mixture</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">turbulence during combustion push the =
lean limit further out, as well as</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">allowing better efficiency through =
higher compression ratio (by avoiding</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">pre-ignition and/or detonation). =
Furthermore-- leaner mixtures at part</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">throttle (with a spark ignition =
engine) reduce pumping losses, improving</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">economy even further at part =
throttle. SO--how far lean of stoich is best</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">for economy--the answer is--"As =
far as you can get away with!"--not some</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">set rule! It all depends on a large =
number of engine design factors.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">So--what are we left with that is =
magical about stoich? The facts that a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">stoich mixture is the point where a =
three way catalyst works best for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">cleaning up tailpipe emissions and =
that it is also the point where a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">standard EGO or HEGO exhaust oxygen =
sensor (as opposed to a UEGO WBO2</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">sensor) switches its output. =
Period.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">In closing--I would like to say that =
this list will return to far better</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">health once it finally get put onto a =
different server, and can FINALLY get</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">off of the #$%^^&^*& digest =
mode--too many of the really knowlegeable</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">people here have been driven into the =
lurk mode by the digest format!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">AND--the trick to getting good =
information off of the internet is the same</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">as it is anywhere else in life--one =
has to learn to sort useful information</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">out from BS!! There are always plenty =
of people in any field who are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">willing to spread BS =
indiscriminately, usually without knowing any better,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">but sometimes with premeditation and =
for profit! Good, old fashioned</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">fundamental education taken together =
with the ability and experience with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">applying it is one of the most =
effective tools for accomplishing this</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">sorting process!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Unfortunately, high performance =
engines seem to attract more than their</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">proportionate share of the BS and the =
profiteers (particularly the ones who</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">feed on ignorance)!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Although I am NOT going to be so bold =
as to say where, I WILL promise that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">there is a bunch of good information =
in this last series of posts--it's up</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">to all of you to figure out =
where!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Back to lurk mode, at least 'til we =
are off digest mode!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Regards, Greg</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">------------------------------</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:01:24 =
+0800</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: dzorde at erggroup.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: Re: Signal of AMC 16</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Mike, I had a similar problem trying =
to interface my Chev HEI to the aftermarket</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">ECU, made the car undrivable as it =
saw multiple crossovers of the same trigger.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Try something along the lines =
of.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; =
0.1uF 1k</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">coil =
------||------/\/\/\/\/---------|--------------ECU</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
<</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
> 1k</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
|</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
---- 15V zener diode</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">5W</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
/\</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial"> &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
gnd</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">regards</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dan dzorde at erggroup.com</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:56:23 -0500 =
(EST)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Mike Comai =
<comai at expert.cc.purdue.edu></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: Ref. Signal off of AMC =
I6</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I am currently trying to get my first =
major retrofit up and running. I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">have everything installed and when I =
try to start it the injector's don't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">fire. I was told that I need a =
filter on the negative side of the coil</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">and to feed the filtered signal into =
the Reference line on the ECM (which</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I am using a '747). I was given =
a design for a filter which looks like</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">this:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">------------------------------</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:14:04 =
+0800</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: dzorde at erggroup.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 =
#672</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'm doing this on my current s/c =
set-up (although car is not yet driveable),</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">anyway a blow off valve just venting =
of the air during idle and light cruise.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Put your foot down, the valve shuts =
and there is instant 17psi boost. Unlike a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">turbo, you don't get a pop when it =
opens, but more of a constant whistle as it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">lets a lot of air out unless =
wot.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Due to the extremely hot air =
(currently don't have an intercooler yet) I'm</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">reluctant to recirculate it through =
the intake filter (but due to the very loud</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">whistle created by all this air veing =
vented in the engine bay I need to do</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">something). Can anyone see a =
problem with feeding the air from the blow off</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">valve into the exhaust system before =
the muffler and quieten it down this way.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The line could be fed in at 45deg =
angle with the exhaust flow.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dan dzorde at erggroup.com</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:02:36 =
-0500</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: "Jonathan Davis" =
<jfd125 at psu.edu></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: Re: KLUTCH!!!</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Another way to do this, perhaps would =
be a large bypass valve that recirculates</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">any boost until WOT. Something =
like that would be intoxicating to drive - nice</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">fat kick in the pants at =
WOT...</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">------------------------------</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 02:19:16 =
-0500</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Chris Conlon =
<synchris at ricochet.net></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: re: Add-on systems which =
affect output pulse width?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">"Andrew Brownsword" =
<asword at telus.net> wrote:</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> It seems to me that this =
could be problematic if the ECU was designed to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>expect a particular voltage range =
and the stock airflow meter generated that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>full range ... in other words =
there is no buffer for going beyond the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>expected range of values. =
This seems fairly reasonable for an N/A engine</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>since it is extremely unlikely =
that the car will have to deal with >1</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>atmosphere.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I'm not going to get into this, =
really. You may very well run</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">into problems, especially with =
ignition timing, when you try to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">trick an NA ECU into running much =
boost. (If you aren't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">reprogramming it, that is.)</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> The alternative is to =
modify the ECU's output, which is a time dependant</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>pulse width. It simply =
isn't possible to have full remapping control over</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>the output because by the time =
you know what the pulse width is, the time at</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">>which you have to send it to the =
injectors has passed. It occurred to me</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">You can get very close, though, and =
very easily, in at least a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">couple different ways. This presumes =
you're running injectors a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">good bit larger than stock and will =
not need to lengthen the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">pulse. Take your basic HC11. Wire a =
switch (power mosfet most</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">likely) in series with each injector =
drive circuit, watch for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">voltage drops, ground ref, etc. =
Control each switch via output</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">compare line. Also wire up input =
compare lines so they can</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">detect when the ECU is *trying* to =
fire the injector,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">independent of your switch's =
position. (If you have more than</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">4 independent injector drive =
circuits, see 68332 instead.) Now</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">you can easily read RPM and load, =
more or less, via input</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">compares. You have a map, and for =
each rpm/pulse width point,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">look up a new pulse width. (Or just =
multiply by old injector</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">size / new injector size, correct for =
short PW, etc etc.)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Leave each output compare line =
(switches) on, until the ecu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">fires that circuit. You'll get an =
interrupt and time count</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">via input compare. Calculate how long =
you want the pulse to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">be, program output compare to turn =
off at that time. When IC</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">turns off again, take another =
interrupt, turn OC back on.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">You can update RPM and desired-PW info =
at each injector firing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">if desired. It is "behind =
reality" but not by much. Issues</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">exist with p&h drivers, need a =
dummy load, etc, or just supply</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">your own drivers. (Assorted details =
omitted, none too tricky.) </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I already have to do this (and more =
besides) for my semi</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">insane supercharged MR2 project, ugh. =
Lucky for me the ECU</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">already understands boost, timing =
retard, knock sensing,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">etc, it just needs a few white lies =
about airflow & injector</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">sizes.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Now I had some questions for you, =
since you seem to know</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ford/Mazda stuff well. I did some =
searching for answers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">but got confused and set it aside. =
I'd like to get an</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">MX-3 v6, and do some engine swapping. =
I've heard that a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2.5l v6 from the MX-6 (or 626?) will =
basically drop in.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wasn't there a 2.5l *turbo* Ford =
Probe GT engine at one</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">point? If so would it drop in w/o =
much work? Basically I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">think the MX-3 is cute and would get =
one if I knew I could</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">grab a decent turbo engine (well, a =
whole front cut) from</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">something and drop it in pretty =
easily. (Ignoring ECU hassles</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">of course, got to have some fun!) I =
know there are aftermarket</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">turbo kits, etc, but I was hoping for =
a factory turbo motor.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Am I just real wrong or was there =
such a beast? I'm pretty</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">sure there was a not-common MX-6 =
turbo... comments? Thoughts?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> TIA,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> Chris C.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">------------------------------</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #678</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">*****************************</FONT>
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