Injectors

[Todd....!!]

Cool deal Fred!

If you can get 850 hp out of a 3.8, if we use the same hp/L or hp/cu.
in., 850 hp/230 cu in = 3.69 hp / cu in!

If we take my 452(.060 over 440) and use the same ratio of 3.69 hp/cu.
in. we'd get a WHOPPIN 3.69 * 452 = 1,670!

However, I only WANT about 1,000 hp, at least for not, that's an easily
attainable goal, with using from 5 - 15 lbs. of boost, maybe turn er up
higher at a later date....

ALSO, ya may have misunderstood me when I posted that I wanted DUAL
injector setup for idle quality as well as safety.  I meant I may want
to use smaller dual injectors PER Cylinder not just two 100+ lb.
injectors TOTAL for the whole system, that WOULD be rather silly as well
as potentially SERIOUSLY dangerous, as ya stated!

1. So, how much is a haltech unit?
2. As well as the prices of all the sensors and injectors from the
j-yard?
3. And what all sensors are required?
4. What kind of car (Make, model, engine, etc.) car would 'good'
injectors to use for my app come from?

As for the Haltech computer, I'd like to be able to use larger injectors
in the future, is the haltech set on a certain spec'd
injector(resistance, inductance, amps, volts, etc...?) or is it
calabratable for ANY type of injector ya can throw at it?

Thanks for all the help!

Things are begninnin to fall into place with all of the info I'm gettin
outa this e-mail thread!

REALLY 'preciate all the help from everyone...

And I'm glad to see that there are other people 'doin' the same type
projects I am!  Very cool indeed!

Sincerely!

Todd....!!
http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm

Frederic Breitwieser wrote:
> 
> > What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like
> > that?
> 
> Well, I wouldn't want to design or build a system based on one or two
> big-ass 100lb injectors.  If one gets stuck closed, you'd lose 1/2
> your fuel and lean out.  Underboost, you'd detonate something fierce.
> If the reverse happened, where one injector got stuck open, you'd have
> a flood, possibly a fire if the engine even runs at all.
> 
> This is one of the things I do like about multiple injectors, spread
> around the intake runners, i.e. one injector per cylinder.  Fire 'em
> sequentially, batch, a combination of the two, whatever, however if
> one injector goes bad, on a V8 engine you could in theory limp home
> with crappy performance.  But, you more than likely could get home.
> 
> Also, if you calculated out that you need two (see dual above) 100lb
> injectors, that's 200lbs worth of injector performance at an 80% duty
> cycle, divided by "banks" or "cylinders" depending how you want to
> fire them, and you have smaller, less costly injectors.
> 
> An 18lb injector is cheaper than a 36lb injector which is cheaper than
> a 100lb injector, typically, assuming the same vendor/manufacturer.
> 
> And of course, if you test them and determine the approximate flow,
> you can get junkyard injectors for practically nothing, and put
> together a nearly matched set.
> 
> > which the best most economical system I could use for this setup is!
> 
> The least aggrevating method of EFI for your needs based on what we
> discussed would be the Electromotive Unit.  Buy the unit "naked" and
> get all the GM sensors, injectors, etc, from the local you-pull-it
> junkyard and wire it up.  Cut the wires long to all the
> sensors/injectors so you have wires to play with as well as the proper
> connectors.  Makes life easy down the road.
> 
> > can find an economical dual injector/cyl computer, that is...
> 
> Well, if you want dual injectors per cylinder, lets talk about this
> :)  My 849HP Buick V6 ran three injectors per cylinder... all junkyard
> injectors.
> 
> Stage I - managed by the Haltach ECM.
> Stage II - logical "and" between the Pulsewidth of Stage I and the
> boost pressure.  Meaning, that  the Stage II injectors don't fire
> unless the same injector in Stage I fires "AND" the boost is over
> 9-10lbs of pressure.
> Stage III - local "and" between the Pulsewidth of Stage I and the
> boost pressure (higher), meaning that the Stage III injectors
> (Isopropol/distilled water mixture) doesn't fire unless the same
> injector in Stage I fires "AND" the boost was over 15lbs of pressure.
> 
> We did this using mosfets and op-amps, probably violating most of the
> "rules" associated with electronics engineering, however it worked.
> LM324's are a generic op-amp and we used it to measure the boost in
> the plenum, which fed an "ordinary" cmos buffer gate which then fed a
> CMOS AND gate, which the other leg of said AND gate was fed by a
> 2n2222 transistor attached to the injector fire lead on the injector.
> wasn't all that complex, though being an analog/digital mix with the
> programmable Haltach unit thinking something else was happening,
> adjusting this setup was an absolute nasty bitch.  However, 849 HP out
> of a Buick V6 with three injectors per cylinder is nothing to laugh
> at.  It worked,  it worked well, and I should grab my notebook from
> the shop and post some more of the details in the wiring.
> 
> Though, if I can do it, so can you.  Just because I used the Haltach
> unit, doesn't mean you're locked into it.  The key is controlling the
> maps in the ECM, whichever one you choose, to ensure that over a
> certain boost level, when stage II and stage III kicks in, the tables
> for injector pulsewidth LEVEL OFF, thus not increasing the time the
> injectors are open.  As stage two started firing... performance dipped
> because the mixture was slightly rich, until the RPMs and boost kept
> going up, in which case it leveled off.  This indicates to me that we
> didn't have the threshold just right, and some of the pulsewidth
> settings in the Haltach might also have been off.  Stage III wasn't a
> problem as its isopropol, and it cooled off the cylinders a bit yet
> still burned.
> 
> It was a mess.  Two fuel tanks (one gas, one alky/water) and three
> in-tank fuel pumps.  Two in the gas, one in the alky, all wired on for
> constant pressure, which varied at the rails between 45-50 depending
> on the engine RPMs and load.  More load, less pressure, as the fuel(s)
> were disappearing faster, and stock pumps are... well... mediocre.
> 
> If you can, use Ford F150 pumps from the 89-93 model years... they are
> external, don't seemed to be bothered by isopropol, and did I say
> external and easily replacible? <G>.
> 
> Hope that helped.
> 
> --
> 
> Frederic Breitwieser
> Bridgeport CT 06606
> 
> 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental
> 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy
> 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos
> 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car)