EFI control

[Shirley, Mark R]

Maybe the low end manufacturers do understand the environment, and just
choose not to build to that spec.  I don't know.  What I do know is that
it's not good enough around here.  I know it can be done, since I
participated
in such an effort.  I disagree that you can't charge more than your
competitors,
you can if you provide a better product.  Motec does this.  Perhaps this
argument should be that there's no nice middle ground of systems, which
have complete weatherproofing, high quality harnesses, etc.  24K gold
plating
is not necessary when you weatherproof properly.

I am not looking for a ferrari of controllers, just a middle-road mercedes.

Please define 'real world'.  Do you mean that you don't really need EMI
testing?
You don't really need corrosion resistance?  Aftermarket EFI is only for
racers
and weekend hobby cars?  Bull puckey.

There is a market for these features.  No one seems to be in it.  If you 
come back and say Motec, I say - I don't need Milspec connectors and armored
harnesses.
I don't need a box you can drop off the eiffel tower and have it survive.  
I need an OEM quality box that has OEM quality connections, that I can
program with a laptop on DOS/UNIX software, and buy for ~$1500 or so, out
the door.

And I can't comment on the Wolf system, I've never seen or heard of it.
The argument started on the quality of the SDS system's wiring.  That was my
beef,
it's not good enough for it to cost $1000.

And I disagree with someones' comment that engineering types don't have a
grip on 
marketing/sales.  You can teach an engineer to market and sell product, you
cannot teach
a salesman to engineer something, unless he's already smart enough to get an
engineering 
degree on his own.

-----Original Message-----
From: James Montebello [mailto:jamesm at lapuwali.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:54 PM
To: 'diy_efi at diy-efi.org'
Subject: RE: EFI control

MoTec also charges 3-4x what SDS, Electromotive, Wolf, Haltec,
etc. charge.  Their market is for high-end systems, like well-funded
racing teams or CEOs who like to get their hands dirty.  I don't know
too many individuals who are willing or able to pay $4000 for an ECU,
then another $1000-2000 for harnesses, sensors, etc.  Obviously, since
MoTec and Pi Systems are solvent, there's a sufficient market for them
at the high end.  They're the Ferrari of the ECU market.

I don't own a Ferrari.  Do you?

My main point is I think you're giving the low-end manufacturers
short shrift.  They very well understand the harsh environment they're
working in.  Not only do they have to worry about EMI, but lawyers,
angry customers, regulators, and the tax man.  You're only concerning
yourself with the first item on that list.  Working for a large
company, you have that luxury.  They have to worry about the whole list.
They have to produce a product that is "good enough" or they won't sell.
Anything better than good enough costs extra money, and since they can't
charge any more for their products than their competitors, they have to
eat those costs.  Money out of their pockets.

I happen to know personally the proprietor of the company that sells the
Wolf system.  It sells for about $800US.  He's not making a lot of money.
He's perfectly happy doing this, since it's what he loves, and he's
never had any money (former academic).  His stuff works well enough
that he has a number of satisfied customers, many of whom drive cars
using his products across the Australian deserts (Wolf is in Melbourne).
There are others who use his products in wet New England.  Seems to be
good enough for them, in drastically different environments, in the
real world.

So, really, even though you don't realize it, you really are asking
for 24K gold-plated connectors, and tech support by the Playmate of the
Month, or, rather, for things that end up being about as useful in the
real world.  I think you're falling into the common trap of deciding
that only the very best is good enough.  There's nothing particularly
wrong with that attitude.  That's the attitude they take at Rolls-Royce,
and Ferrari, and in most aerospace applications.  When you have the
money to spend, spend it on quality.  Absolutely the right thing to do.
But there is a level of quality beyond which the cost exceeds the benefit.
The high-end guys, like Motec, are higher up on that curve.  The low-end
guys, like Wolf, live farther down the hill.  You pays your money...

james montebello

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