Smartcoils & other ignition questions

[Bob Wooten]

thanks James,

is there a Coil that is similar to the CNP for GM that does not have any
smarts to it.  just charge it up, drop it to ground & let it rip?  i was
hoping for something that has a male post so that i can just plug it into
the existing wires & watch for smoke.  sounds like some of the import cars
have this (RX7 etc).

Bob Wooten


> [Original Message]
> From: James Ballenger <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Date: 1/15/01 1:38:47 AM
> Subject: RE: Smartcoils & other ignition questions
>
> 	I think the reference is to the new denso coils by GM.  I have seen
> them on some newer apps like suburbans and I think they have been going on
> vettes for a little while and are now on fbirds and camaros.  As far as I
> can tell they are phasing out the waste spark system.  On this note, I
only
> have 2 output channels and 4 cylinders to fire with my Haltech and opted
to
> go with some Bosch smart ignitors and GM waste spark coils... WOAH! they
are
> powerful compared to the Honda setup.  You could almost tig weld with
these
> things.  If I had 4 output channels and didn't have any dwell worries, I
> would go with the GM Denso coils which have the ignitors built into each
> coil but I think they are dumb ignitors.
> 
> James Ballenger
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
> >Behalf Of Bob Wooten
> >Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 11:20 PM
> >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> >Subject: Re: Smartcoils & other ignition questions
> >
> >
> >So, my question here is, what coil was Gar talking about?  It 
> >appears that
> >this is the LS1 coil, but it was not totally clear to me.  if 
> >this is the
> >case then what does smart coil actually mean?  if that means 
> >coil & driver,
> >great, go ahead make my life easy.  if not?????  when he said 
> >"next year"
> >does that mean model year 2001?  if so are they on the new big 
> >block trucks
> >(anyone here work for GM)?  
> >
> >thanks 
> >Bob 
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Jurgen Hartwig <jhartwig at midsouth.rr.com>
> >> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> >> Date: 1/13/01 11:23:00 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Smartcoils & other ignition questions
> >>
> >> > I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "smartcoils". I'm 
> >familiar with a
> >> > setup for the GM V6 that has the module with three wasted 
> >spark coils
> >> > bolted directly on top of it. The latest LS-1 V8 has one 
> >coil per plug,
> >> > with the coil mounted directly at the spark plug. These 
> >are not wasted
> >> > spark, however, requiring eight coils and coil drivers.
> >> 
> >> Here's an excerpt of a past post, dated 29 May 1998, by Gar:
> >> 
> >> >>>>>
> >> Oh Man, you don't know the half of it!! A guy in our 
> >Aviation group that
> >> works in a GM lab sent me one of these off a decommissioned test
> >> vehicle, and they are NOT mere IGN coils, they're complete 
> >single-coil
> >> IGN "systems". They contain ALL the electronics for dwell control,
> >> current limiting, etc etc. These coils are DIRECTLY run from the
> >> ECM/PCM. There is NO module. They have 4 terminals (plus the HV
> >> terminal, that uses these ratchet style terminals I was tellin bout
> >> yesterday), two for Bat Gnd, and Bat +12V, and the other two are the
> >> digital EST signal and it's low-noise gnd return. Not usable 
> >for ION as
> >> a transformer-type coil, cuz you cain't get to either the primary or
> >> secondary on these puppies, but still a VERY elegant setup, indeed.
> >> That ain't all. The biggest shock is yet to come. Brace 
> >yerself. They're
> >> actually CHEAP (and nice and light, too). I couldn't believe 
> >it when I
> >> went to check them out further. The GM parts counter LIST 
> >price is $41
> >> for each "smart coil", and EVEN the harness for tying four of them
> >> together is reasonable, list price of $62. You get 4 
> >connectors for the
> >> 4 coils, and another larger connector. Not a bad price for 4 GM
> >> connectors and pigtails (if you decided you couldn't use the 
> >harness as
> >> is), at the very least, and you might even be able to get the bigger
> >> connector from Packard! The shorty coil wires (yes, these DON'T squat
> >> ontop the coils) have them real nice connectors I mentioned, 
> >and they as
> >> well are pretty reasonable, at $11 ea list. My GM pal who must remain
> >> anonymous says you'll see these exact same LS-1 smartCoils 
> >appearing on
> >> all the big block truck and bus engines next year! That's what my
> >> samples came off of, NOT LS-1 engines. Heh.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> 
> >> The ones I looked up for the Camaro do indeed have spark 
> >plug wires, so
> >> they are not coil on spark plug.  Additionally, since these 
> >have igniters
> >> onboard, there is no need for any boxes.  What I am trying 
> >to determine is
> >> if my Wolf 3D setup will directly drive two "smart coils" in 
> >waste spark
> >> fashion.  The Wolf system cannot do direct ignition, which 
> >really isn't a
> >> big deal for me having only a 4 cylinder engine.  I need to 
> >wait until
> >> after the holiday to get in touch with Wolf EMS.  I just 
> >wanted to throw
> >> out an email to see if anyone has any direct experience with 
> >these coils.
> >> 
> >> My second option is to use dual post coils and igniters from an RX-7.
> >> They are roughly $30-50US each used and have igniters 
> >beneath each coil.
> >> 
> >> With either setup, I'm not looking at more than $150, and in 
> >my opinion,
> >> this package is relatively inexpensive upgrade to simple waste spark
> >> ignition.
> >> 
> >> To anyone who cares, I picked up my Wolf 3D setup for $645US 
> >used, and it
> >> uses plain vanilla GM sensors and can be triggered by a 
> >simple Ford Escort
> >> magnetic sensor ($18 from NAPA).  With some creativity, I'll 
> >keep costs
> >> below $1000, and be able to go with forced induction in the 
> >near future.
> >> I just don't have the brute knowledge to cobble together a 
> >GM setup, so I
> >> had to trade money for knowledge.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> Jay
> >> 
> >>
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> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Bob Wooten
> >--- r71chevy at earthlink.net
> >--- www.r71camaro.homestead.com 
> >
> >
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> >
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--- Bob Wooten
--- r71chevy at earthlink.net
--- www.r71camaro.homestead.com 


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