DIY_EFI Digest V5 #534
Bruce Plecan
nacelp at bright.net
Thu Mar 15 02:57:07 GMT 2001
There are 3 of the diagram posted versions floating around, and now Barry's
refinement. I hope that we get a few more dare devils involved before we
start doing boards is all. Obviously it would be nice to have a lil PCB
but till we get like 10 or so working models, Id say we're jumping the gun
on a PCB is all
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn & Debbie Woodhouse" <gwoodhouse2 at home.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #534
> Bruce,
>
> When I mentioned that this sort of thing was not my core competancy I was
> referring to understanding, potentially functionally debugging the design,
> and laying out a PCB. I'm a great solderer. I scored 100% on my IPC-610
> Class 2 Workmanship Standards test ;) (a few years back...........). I've
> been working in manufacturing engineering within the electronics assembly
> industry for over 11 years. Perhaps I'm off base, but somewhere along the
> line I got the impression that the design currently posted in the project
> file was not complete or fully debugged. I hope I'm wrong because if this
> is a proven functioning design I definately could find the parts and
solder
> one up for myself. Actually I heard today through the EEC-Tuner Group
that
> someone off of this group just got one up and running. I have read the
> archives from '98 and '99 trying to come up to speed but only joining the
> list a couple of days ago has left me with a huge gap and I apologize if I
> have missed a bunch of progress and there are many funtioning units out
> there off of this design. One question that may prove my admitted
ignorance
> above, if units have been built off of this design was this on a
breadboard
> or does somebody have a PCB layout or better yet some pcb's fabricated off
> these schematics?
>
> Thanks, Glenn.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:20:14 -0500
> From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
> Subject: Re: Wide Band O2's
>
> The only tricks are being able to solder, and ordering parts.
> For those at the non engineering end of things then just hang out will
> things are more refined. If you don't know how to solder then this is
the
> time to try and learn how. If your serious about EFI, your going to
have
> to learn that anyway
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've only been on this list since last week and I'm sure there is a
> > sense of pride of doing it yourself but there are those less capable
> > and everyone is broke especially me :) So if someone can make kits and
> > save hard working folks like me money then thats great. If this guy
> > wants to charge too much he will price himself out of making any sales.
> >
> > Gaston
> >
> >
> > --- Bruce Plecan <nacelp at bright.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > The whole purpose of DIY EGOR, is for educational purposes.
> > > Remember, Do It Yourself!.
> > > If anyone one wants to make a buck off of it, your vilolating the
> > > whole
> > > purpose.
> > > This is about using a readily available product and developing it's
> > > use for
> > > educational purposes, as an engine management devise, which is about
> > > Lower
> > > emissions, and social awareness. While minor, even in off road use,
> > > this
> > > leads to cleaner air.
> > > If DIY EGOR is beyond your range of talent, then again it's about
> > > LEARNING
> > > what you need to do to build use one.
> > > The posted stuff has nothing to do with where Gar took off to. He's
> > > decided to make a commercial venture out of it which has nothing to
> > > do with
> > > what's been done with it's kind of name sake.
> > > Bruce
> > >
> > > > Glenn & Debbie Woodhouse wrote:
> > > > > Garfield are you still on the list, or is there a Y2K archive I
> > > can
> > > continue
> > > > > my search in, or can someone else like Dr. Gwynne, Dr. Pelcan or
> > > Frank
> > > from
> > > > > the golden days of EGOR provide a status?
> > > > > Thanks, Glenn.
> > >
> > > > AFAIK Gar is off the list. EGOR is still not a product that I've
> > > > heard. All there is for now is the DIY-egor project, perhaps
> > > someone
> > > > would be willing to build some for a little $$$?
> > > > --steve
> > >
> > >
>
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> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:26:21 -0700
> From: john <syko at nmia.com>
> Subject: Wideband with Haltech?
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a question regarding anyone that has used a Haltech with a
wideband.
>
> First- is it really that simple? The manual states a UEGO sensor can
> be used. I called up Haltech and they said any wideband O2 sensor
> that spits out 5 volts will work fine.
>
> And can I use the inexpensive honda wideband? Or am I forced to use
> $$$ options?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> thank you
>
> John
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:25:55 EST
> From: ECMnut at aol.com
> Subject: Re: test message, don't read
>
> In a message dated 3/8/01 8:40:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> InTech at writeme.com writes:
>
> >
> > I didn't read it. :)
> >
> Hows it goin Carl?
> Mike V
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:31:53 -0800
> From: Ira Emus <ira at CamaroElectronics.com>
> Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording
>
> At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition
> timing
> >at the engine.
>
> I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC
> crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if
you
> had the meter or something similar.
>
> Ira
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:14:37 -0800
> From: Ira Emus <ira at CamaroElectronics.com>
> Subject: RE: CNP coils
>
> At 02:42 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
> > >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification.
> > > Hopefully, someone can assist.
>
> My 2000 Camaro shop manual shows the coil connections are:
>
> A - Ground
> B - Reference low (seems to be ground in the PCM, probably ground return
> for the "Control signal")
> C - Control signal
> D - 12V with ignition on.
>
> The manual indicates that the coil is fired by grounding pin C.
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Ira
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:06:37 -0500
> From: "Jason R. Haines" <jhaines at lingenfelter.com>
> Subject: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data
> acquisition input?
>
> Does anyone know what I need to do to build a circuit to be able to take
> standard GM temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, oil temp.) and produce a 0 to
10
> volt output for our data acquisition system. We currently have 12 vdc and
> 13.8 vdc power available although we could add some other DC power supply
if
> needed.
>
> Sorry if this seems basic but that is what happens when you let mechanical
> engineers start working with electronics and electrical systems.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Jason
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:46:05 -0500
> From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
> Subject: Re: Pow wow
>
> Doc has it all written down in a hermidically sealed Mayo jar, and won't
> even let me see it. I did see him revising it cause of some now
scheduling
> problems from the latest snow storm.
> There is no formal scheduling of events, it's what folks what to talk
about,
> and just whatever they want to bring to show and tell.
> Bruce
>
>
>
> > Is there any more information on the EFI pow-wow next
> > weekend? I'm curious who will be there with what toys
> > etc., and an approximate schedule.
> > Thanks,
> > Matt.
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:57:37 -0800 (PST)
> From: Stone <gteran at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Hello (wideband O2)
>
> I just joined the list. This is probably a frequently asked question,
> if so I'm sorry, but where can I buy a wideband O2 sensor kit for my
> car? I saw the DYI kit at diy-efi.org but I got a D in Electronics in
> college for a reason :) FETs etc scare me. JMS sells a kit for $1100.
> I have a friend who works for Ford near Dearborn who said he can get
> me one for about $800. Are these reasonable prices? I can weld a bung
> in my exhaust no problem but I'd prefer to not have to fab my own LED
> display. Thanks.
>
> Gaston
>
> __________________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:30:35 -0500
> From: Seth <sethea at mediaone.net>
> Subject: Re: fuel rail
>
> http://www.rossmachine.com/racing/
>
> these guys make custom 16v VW fuel rails from billet. you might want to
> see what they have done.
>
> - -Seth
>
> Nigel Heron wrote:
> >
> > hi,
> >
> > i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet
> > aluminum.
> > What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic
> > guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.?
> >
> > thanks,
> > -nigel.
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:25:14 -0500
> From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #525
>
> Considered yes, done no, just the tiniest of grit can hold an injector
> open. Something I'd rather not risk. Even with the stainless, there is
no
> way that I know of that cut it perfectly. If you can hear the
injectors,
> your exhuast system is too quiet, <g>...
> Bruce
>
>
> > Has anyone considered putting a piece of open cell
> > foam (like inside a fuel cell) or maybe a metal or
> > plastic mesh inside one of these rails? The idea being
> > to dampen the acoustic characteristics without
> > impeding the flow.
>
> > I'd favor a piece of coarse stainless mesh, rolled up
> > into a cylinder, and inserted into the passage. The
> > foam makes me uncomfortable for the long haul.
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:56:39 +1100
> From: "Anthony Sarkis" <iosystems at bigpond.com>
> Subject: Ease ST2-ISO and the Ferrari 360M
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the ST2-ISO scan tool offered By EASE
> Diagnostics (www.obd2.com)?
>
> More to the point, the ST2-ISO is compatible with the OBDII interface, and
> would like to know
> if anyone has tried it on a Euro car, in my a case a Ferrari 360 which
runs
> Motronics 5.2 (I don't actually own one though)
>
> Can I say categorically, that if the car is OBDII, and the tool reads
OBDII
> ISO (not the the other 2 versions of OBDII),
> I should be alright?
>
> I know there are some parameters that are available through OBDII and some
> that are manufacturer specific which
> don't need to be made available.
>
> Do I really need this tool? I have always done OK with a multimeter and a
> O-scope in the past on systems like
> the L-jet and Motronics 2.5/2.7
>
> thanks for any help, Anthony
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:50:36 EST
> From: Moofaloof at aol.com
> Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording
>
> Yes, exactly. I use a Fluke 97 scopemeter and pick off the crank trigger
> signal and the signal to the coil on DIS cars or use an inductive pickup
on
> the plug wire.
> jc
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ira
> Emus <ira at CamaroElectronics.com> writes:
>
> << At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition
> timing
> >at the engine.
>
> I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC
> crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if
you
> had the meter or something similar.
>
> Ira
>
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> >>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:24:37 -0600
> From: steve <kb4mxo at mwt.net>
> Subject: : Re: $175 CO meter?
>
> >
>
> Nice meter but needs changes needed to read accurate regulate voltage
into
> whetstone bridge then put a constant velocity pump on it . Remember to not
> go way
> lean it will invert and show rich. Nice meter just a bit slower than new
> wide band
> o2 meters but no sensor to change ever . Tune race car with one for years.
>
> Steve
>
> > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:36:57 -0500
> > From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
> > Subject: Re: $175 CO meter?
> >
> > Sounds like an update on the old Heathkit CO2 meter kit.
> > Sensor was just part of a whetstone bridge.
> > State of the art circa 1975
> > Bruce
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:36:57 -0800
> From: "Walter Sherwin" <wsherwin at home.com>
> Subject: Re: reading block learn values from GM EFI systems?
>
> Every ECM/PCM is gonna differ somewhat. If using OBDI, how about issuing
> something like either a Mode 2 or a Mode 3 data dump command, to spit
> relevant address values out the ALDL port upon request? Or, how about
> modifying your Mode 1 data stream profile to include the relevant BLM
values
> in place of other less useful parameters, and then stream the BLM's to
your
> ALDL tool? OBDII would be different again. If using an emulator, you may
> be able to extract these values directly via the editor interface? Kind
of
> depends upon exactly what you are working with.
>
>
>
> > Does anyone know of a way to read/view all of the individual block
> > learn/fuel trim values for each cell/block that are stored in the
ECM/PCM
> > (when retaining block learn values is enabled)? Could this be obtained
> > through the diagnostic port or copied off of some internal chip?
> >
> >
> > Jason
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:29:02 -0500
> From: "James Ballenger" <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
> Subject: RE: Electromotive software
>
> Their software is very nice and very easy to tune with. I can provide
> screenshots for any functions you guys would want. Their 3d maps of fuel
> and ignition are a lot nicer than my haltech units.
>
> James Ballenger
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
> >Behalf Of Programmer
> >Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:10 PM
> >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> >Subject: Electromotive software
> >
> >
> >Hey guys,
> >Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod
> >using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very
> >cool...Looks like a
> >very tuneable system.
> >
> >Lyndon.
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:17:02 -0800
> From: "Bob Wooten" <r71chevy at earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: CNP coils
>
> thank you amigo, this is a great help.
>
> Bob Wooten
>
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
> Behalf Of Ira Emus
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 12:15 AM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: RE: CNP coils
>
>
> At 02:42 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
> > >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification.
> > > Hopefully, someone can assist.
>
> My 2000 Camaro shop manual shows the coil connections are:
>
> A - Ground
> B - Reference low (seems to be ground in the PCM, probably ground return
> for the "Control signal")
> C - Control signal
> D - 12V with ignition on.
>
> The manual indicates that the coil is fired by grounding pin C.
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Ira
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:18:02 -0500
> From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
> Subject: Re: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data
> acquisition input?
>
> Just cause the Datalogging allows 0-10 doesn't mean you have to use it.
> the display maybe customizable (?<g>) to read just the 0-5 part anyway.
> Other then the air flow computation, the other stuff really isn't that
> critical. And things like IAT sensors are rather slow to change anyway
> Bruce
>
> > Does anyone know what I need to do to build a circuit to be able to take
> > standard GM temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, oil temp.) and produce a 0 to
> 10
> > volt output for our data acquisition system. We currently have 12 vdc
and
> > 13.8 vdc power available although we could add some other DC power
supply
> if
> > needed.
> >
> > Sorry if this seems basic but that is what happens when you let
mechanical
> > engineers start working with electronics and electrical systems.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:19:24 -0600
> From: steve ravet <sravet at arm.com>
> Subject: Re: Newbie...
>
> Chris, it seems like there's a ton of information for GM cars, somewhat
> less for Fords, and basically none for anything else. So it might be
> hard to find out about your Eclipse. But, you can look around at the
> gmecm page and learn a lot about GM EFI strategy. Another great place
> is the archives of both diy-efi and gmecm. Both archives can be
> downloaded from their respective WWW pages, and searched with a text
> editor or word processor. I wouldn't try reading from end to end, but
> browse around in them and read stuff that looks interesting. There
> isn't a good place to start, that I know of at least, other than read a
> lot and ask questions. Good luck!
>
> - --steve
>
> > Chris Remshaw wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I
> > have only begun to understand any of it. I am a computer programmer,
> > but a more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into
> > programming ECU's. Where is a good place to start (on the web, off
> > the web, etc.)? I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done
> > modifications to my own. I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris Remshaw
>
> - --
> Steve Ravet
> steve.ravet at arm.com
> ARM,Inc.
> www.arm.com
> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 02:47:37 -0800
> From: Ludis Langens <ludis at cruzers.com>
> Subject: Winter gas vs summer gas
>
> Has anyone here experienced problems with "winter" gas? Especially the
> oxygenated, reformulated, winter gas sold in California in (I think)
> November, December, and January?
>
> The previous two winters, the winter gas caused two of my vehicles to
> occasionally ping under mild throttle conditions. Each year, by the
> time the weather warmed up enough (February) to consider diagnosing the
> pinging, the problem went away. One vehicle is PFI and the other has a
> computer-carb. A neighbor reported similar problems with a TBI engine.
>
> This winter, I didn't have the pinging. Instead, the carb vehicle liked
> to stall when the engine was cool. The engine acted/sounded like it
> went totally pig rich, the rpms dropped, it started rich misfiring, and
> eventually stalled. I replaced a few "iffy" parts, but couldn't fully
> solve the problem. I've been driving around for several weeks with a
> DVM hooked to the O2 sensor. The DVM showed that the cool engine wasn't
> nearly as rich as it sometimes got when fully warmed up.
>
> A few days ago, I filled up with gas for the first time since January.
> (30 gallon gas tank...) Problem solved. Hrmph!
>
> - --
> Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
> Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:51:20 -0600
> From: "David Gregory" <dcg1174 at tntech.edu>
> Subject: RE: wiring diagram for Honda 1600 DOHC "ZC" engine
>
> what you need is a Helms Manual( www.helminc.com )
>
> Also you should check out www.hybrid.honda-perf.org and
> www.crx.honda-perf.org. Those guys can help you for sure.
>
> But if i were you i'd get the Helms, no matter what (they are the same as
> the "official" honda shop manual)
> HTH,
> David
>
> P.S. if you have more questions, you can email me off list,
> dcg1174 at tntech.edu, as this is decidedly off topic
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
> Behalf Of Ade + Lamb Chop
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:09 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: OT: wiring diagram for Honda 1600 DOHC "ZC" engine
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have a DOHC non-vtec honda engine from a CRX (89) and an ECU
> from an 88 honda integra ex16 (same engine). Both cars are UK
> spec.
>
> I am after a efi wiring diagrams so that I can get the engine to run. I
> have a haynes manual that covers the US SOHC CRXs will that be
> the same system?
>
> Thanx,
>
> Ade
>
>
> ICQ. 75653589
> www.adesite.co.uk
> ade.honda-mini.co.uk
> www.mini-list.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:01:11 -0500
> From: "James Ballenger" <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
> Subject: RE: CNP coils
>
> Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that
> that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else..
> The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and
> dont have a cross ref to Gm part #. The local AC Delco suppliers, namely
GM
> dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have
to
> do some traveling to get to one. That gmpartsdirect site is great, too
bad
> I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up.
>
> James Ballenger
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
> >Behalf Of Bruce Plecan
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM
> >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> >Subject: Re: CNP coils
> >
> >
> >
> >Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a
> >Pigtail / Connector
> >Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced.
> >Bruce
> >
> >
> >
> >From: "James Ballenger" <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
> >
> >> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am
> >looking for the
> >> harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I
> >might find
> >some
> >> harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or
> >won't help me
> >> out on this one.
> >> James Ballenger
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------
> >-------------
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> >
> >
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:17:43 -0000
> From: "Murphy, Ian" <Ian.Murphy at Arrows.com>
> Subject: RE: MAP Sensor
>
> MAP stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure, so substituting a gauge
> (referenced to atmosphere) pressure is incorrect. MAP is often used to
> calculate charge density and hence fuelling using thermodynamic / fluid
> dynamics maths involving Ideal Gas laws.
>
> Of course, if you include a Baro sensor when designing a system, you can
> infer MAP from a gauge sensor.
>
> Ian
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Blakey [SMTP:mike.blakey at baesystems.com]
> > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 11:08 AM
> > To: DIY_EFI at lists.diy-efi.org; efi332 at lists.diy-efi.org
> > Subject: MAP Sensor
> >
> > My company has changed my e-mail address so I've resent this post...
> >
> > I have made my own MAP sensor from a differential bridge sensor (-1 to 0
> > bar). It
> > works fine but I'm unsure of the expected range on a manifold, so far
I've
> > only
> > managed to get down to -780 mbar. If this is about typical I can alter
the
> > gain and
> > span to get better resolution over the expected range. My sensor also
is
> > differential to atmospheric pressure, where as the OEM sensors do not
seem
> > to be,
> > is the correct?
> >
> >
> >
> > ********************************************************************
> > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
> > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender
> > immediately by telephoning +44(1252) 373232. You should not copy it
> > or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to
> > any other person.
> > ********************************************************************
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #534
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