DIY_EFI Digest V5 #534

Glenn & Debbie Woodhouse gwoodhouse2 at home.com
Thu Mar 15 02:41:25 GMT 2001


Bruce,

When I mentioned that this sort of thing was not my core competancy I was
referring to understanding, potentially functionally debugging the design,
and laying out a PCB.  I'm a great solderer.  I scored 100% on my IPC-610
Class 2 Workmanship Standards test ;) (a few years back...........).  I've
been working in manufacturing engineering within the electronics assembly
industry for over 11 years.  Perhaps I'm off base, but somewhere along the
line I got the impression that the design currently posted in the project
file was not complete or fully debugged.  I hope I'm wrong because if this
is a proven functioning design I definately could find the parts and solder
one up for myself.  Actually I heard today through the EEC-Tuner Group that
someone off of this group just got one up and running.  I have read the
archives from '98 and '99 trying to come up to speed but only joining the
list a couple of days ago has left me with a huge gap and I apologize if I
have missed a bunch of progress and there are many funtioning units out
there off of this design.  One question that may prove my admitted ignorance
above, if units have been built off of this design was this on a breadboard
or does somebody have a PCB layout or better yet some pcb's fabricated off
these schematics?

Thanks, Glenn.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:20:14 -0500
From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
Subject: Re: Wide Band O2's

The only tricks are being able to solder, and ordering parts.
For those at the non engineering end of things then just hang out will
things are more refined.   If you don't know how to solder then this is the
time to try and learn how.    If your serious about EFI, your going to have
to learn that anyway
Bruce





> I've only been on this list since last week and I'm sure there is a
> sense of pride of doing it yourself but there are those less capable
> and everyone is broke especially me :) So if someone can make kits and
> save hard working folks like me money then thats great. If this guy
> wants to charge too much he will price himself out of making any sales.
>
> Gaston
>
>
> --- Bruce Plecan <nacelp at bright.net> wrote:
> >
> > The whole purpose of DIY EGOR, is for educational purposes.
> > Remember,  Do It Yourself!.
> > If anyone one wants to make a buck off of it, your vilolating the
> > whole
> > purpose.
> > This is about using a readily available product and developing it's
> > use for
> > educational purposes,  as an engine management devise, which is about
> > Lower
> > emissions, and social awareness.   While minor, even in off road use,
> > this
> > leads to cleaner air.
> > If DIY EGOR is beyond your range of talent, then again it's about
> > LEARNING
> > what you need to do to build use one.
> > The posted stuff has nothing to do with where Gar took off to.   He's
> > decided to make a commercial venture out of it which has nothing to
> > do with
> > what's been done with it's kind of name sake.
> > Bruce
> >
> > > Glenn & Debbie Woodhouse wrote:
> > > > Garfield are you still on the list, or is there a Y2K archive I
> > can
> > continue
> > > > my search in, or can someone else like Dr. Gwynne, Dr. Pelcan or
> > Frank
> > from
> > > > the golden days of EGOR provide a status?
> > > > Thanks, Glenn.
> >
> > > AFAIK Gar is off the list.  EGOR is still not a product that I've
> > > heard.  All there is for now is the DIY-egor project, perhaps
> > someone
> > > would be willing to build some for a little $$$?
> > > --steve
> >
> >
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:26:21 -0700
From: john <syko at nmia.com>
Subject: Wideband  with Haltech?

Hi,

I have a question regarding anyone that has used a Haltech with a wideband.

First- is it really that simple?  The manual states a UEGO sensor can
be used.  I called up Haltech and they said any wideband O2 sensor
that spits out 5 volts will work fine.

And can I use the inexpensive honda wideband?  Or am I forced to use
$$$ options?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

thank you

John
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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:25:55 EST
From: ECMnut at aol.com
Subject: Re: test message, don't read

In a message dated 3/8/01 8:40:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
InTech at writeme.com writes:

>
>  I didn't read it. :)
>
Hows it goin Carl?
Mike V
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Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:31:53 -0800
From: Ira Emus <ira at CamaroElectronics.com>
Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording

At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition
timing
>at the engine.

I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC
crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if you
had the meter or something similar.

Ira

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Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:14:37 -0800
From: Ira Emus <ira at CamaroElectronics.com>
Subject: RE: CNP coils

At 02:42 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification.
> > Hopefully, someone can assist.

My 2000 Camaro shop manual shows the coil connections are:

A - Ground
B - Reference low  (seems to be ground in the PCM, probably ground return
for the "Control signal")
C - Control signal
D - 12V with ignition on.

The manual indicates that the coil is fired by grounding pin C.

I hope that helps.

Ira

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:06:37 -0500
From: "Jason R. Haines" <jhaines at lingenfelter.com>
Subject: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data
acquisition input?

Does anyone know what I need to do to build a circuit to be able to take
standard GM temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, oil temp.) and produce a 0 to 10
volt output for our data acquisition system. We currently have 12 vdc and
13.8 vdc power available although we could add some other DC power supply if
needed.

Sorry if this seems basic but that is what happens when you let mechanical
engineers start working with electronics and electrical systems.

Thanks,


Jason


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:46:05 -0500
From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
Subject: Re: Pow wow

Doc has it all written down in a hermidically sealed Mayo jar, and won't
even let me see it.   I did see him revising it cause of some now scheduling
problems from the latest snow storm.
There is no formal scheduling of events, it's what folks what to talk about,
and just whatever they want to bring to show and tell.
Bruce



> Is there any more information on the EFI pow-wow next
> weekend?  I'm curious who will be there with what toys
> etc., and an approximate schedule.
> Thanks,
> Matt.

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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:57:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Stone <gteran at yahoo.com>
Subject: Hello (wideband O2)

I just joined the list. This is probably a frequently asked question,
if so I'm sorry, but where can I buy a wideband O2 sensor kit for my
car? I saw the DYI kit at diy-efi.org but I got a D in Electronics in
college for a reason :) FETs etc scare me. JMS sells a kit for $1100.
I have a friend who works for Ford near Dearborn who said he can get
me one for about $800. Are these reasonable prices? I can weld a bung
in my exhaust no problem but I'd prefer to not have to fab my own LED
display. Thanks.

Gaston

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:30:35 -0500
From: Seth <sethea at mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: fuel rail

http://www.rossmachine.com/racing/

these guys make custom 16v VW fuel rails from billet. you might want to
see what they have done.

- -Seth

Nigel Heron wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet
> aluminum.
> What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic
> guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.?
>
> thanks,
> -nigel.
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:25:14 -0500
From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #525

Considered yes, done no,  just the tiniest of grit can hold an injector
open.  Something I'd rather not risk.  Even with the stainless, there is no
way that I know of that cut it perfectly.    If you can hear the injectors,
your exhuast system is too quiet, <g>...
Bruce


> Has anyone considered putting a piece of open cell
> foam (like inside a fuel cell) or maybe a metal or
> plastic mesh inside one of these rails? The idea being
> to dampen the acoustic characteristics without
> impeding the flow.

> I'd favor a piece of coarse stainless mesh, rolled up
> into a cylinder, and inserted into the passage. The
> foam makes me uncomfortable for the long haul.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 09:56:39 +1100
From: "Anthony Sarkis" <iosystems at bigpond.com>
Subject: Ease ST2-ISO and the Ferrari 360M

Does anyone have any experience with the ST2-ISO scan tool offered By EASE
Diagnostics (www.obd2.com)?

More to the point, the ST2-ISO is compatible with the OBDII interface, and
would like to know
if anyone has tried it on a Euro car, in my a case a Ferrari 360 which runs
Motronics 5.2 (I don't actually own one though)

Can I say categorically, that if the car is OBDII, and the tool reads OBDII
ISO (not the the other 2 versions of OBDII),
I should be alright?

I know there are some parameters that are available through OBDII and some
that are manufacturer specific which
don't need to be made available.

Do I really need this tool? I have always done OK with a multimeter and a
O-scope in the past on systems like
the L-jet and Motronics 2.5/2.7

thanks for any help, Anthony

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:50:36 EST
From: Moofaloof at aol.com
Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording

Yes, exactly.  I use a Fluke 97 scopemeter and pick off the crank trigger
signal and the signal to the coil on DIS cars or use an inductive pickup on
the plug wire.
jc




In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ira
Emus <ira at CamaroElectronics.com> writes:

<< At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition
timing
>at the engine.

I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC
crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if you
had the meter or something similar.

Ira

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 >>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:24:37 -0600
From: steve <kb4mxo at mwt.net>
Subject: : Re: $175 CO meter?

>

Nice meter but needs changes needed to read accurate  regulate voltage into
whetstone bridge then put a constant velocity pump on it . Remember to not
go way
lean it will invert and show rich.  Nice meter just a bit slower than new
wide band
o2 meters but no sensor to change ever . Tune race car with one for years.

Steve

> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:36:57 -0500
> From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
> Subject: Re: $175 CO meter?
>
> Sounds like an update on the old Heathkit CO2 meter kit.
> Sensor was just part of a whetstone bridge.
> State of the art circa 1975
> Bruce

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:36:57 -0800
From: "Walter Sherwin" <wsherwin at home.com>
Subject: Re: reading block learn values from GM EFI systems?

Every ECM/PCM is gonna differ somewhat.  If using OBDI, how about issuing
something like either a Mode 2 or a Mode 3 data dump command, to spit
relevant address values out the ALDL port upon request?  Or, how about
modifying your Mode 1 data stream profile to include the relevant BLM values
in place of other less useful parameters, and then stream the BLM's to your
ALDL tool?  OBDII would be different again.  If using an emulator, you may
be able to extract these values directly via the editor interface?  Kind of
depends upon exactly what you are working with.



> Does anyone know of a way to read/view all of the individual block
> learn/fuel trim values for each cell/block that are stored in the ECM/PCM
> (when retaining block learn values is enabled)? Could this be obtained
> through the diagnostic port or copied off of some internal chip?
>
>
> Jason


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Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:29:02 -0500
From: "James Ballenger" <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
Subject: RE: Electromotive software

	Their software is very nice and very easy to tune with.  I can provide
screenshots for any functions you guys would want.  Their 3d maps of fuel
and ignition are a lot nicer than my haltech units.

James Ballenger

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
>Behalf Of Programmer
>Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:10 PM
>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subject: Electromotive software
>
>
>Hey guys,
>Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod
>using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very
>cool...Looks like a
>very tuneable system.
>
>Lyndon.
>
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:17:02 -0800
From: "Bob Wooten" <r71chevy at earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: CNP coils

thank you amigo, this is a great help.

Bob Wooten


- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
Behalf Of Ira Emus
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 12:15 AM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: CNP coils


At 02:42 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification.
> > Hopefully, someone can assist.

My 2000 Camaro shop manual shows the coil connections are:

A - Ground
B - Reference low  (seems to be ground in the PCM, probably ground return
for the "Control signal")
C - Control signal
D - 12V with ignition on.

The manual indicates that the coil is fired by grounding pin C.

I hope that helps.

Ira

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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:18:02 -0500
From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp at bright.net>
Subject: Re: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data
acquisition input?

Just cause the Datalogging allows 0-10 doesn't mean you have to use it.
the display maybe customizable (?<g>) to read just the 0-5 part anyway.
Other then the air flow computation, the other stuff really isn't that
critical.   And things like IAT sensors are rather slow to change anyway
Bruce

> Does anyone know what I need to do to build a circuit to be able to take
> standard GM temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, oil temp.) and produce a 0 to
10
> volt output for our data acquisition system. We currently have 12 vdc and
> 13.8 vdc power available although we could add some other DC power supply
if
> needed.
>
> Sorry if this seems basic but that is what happens when you let mechanical
> engineers start working with electronics and electrical systems.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Jason
>
>
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:19:24 -0600
From: steve ravet <sravet at arm.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie...

Chris, it seems like there's a ton of information for GM cars, somewhat
less for Fords, and basically none for anything else.  So it might be
hard to find out about your Eclipse.  But, you can look around at the
gmecm page and learn a lot about GM EFI strategy.  Another great place
is the archives of both diy-efi and gmecm.  Both archives can be
downloaded from their respective WWW pages, and searched with a text
editor or word processor.  I wouldn't try reading from end to end, but
browse around in them and read stuff that looks interesting.  There
isn't a good place to start, that I know of at least, other than read a
lot and ask questions.  Good luck!

- --steve

> Chris Remshaw wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>   I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I
> have only begun to understand any of it.  I am a computer programmer,
> but a more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into
> programming ECU's.  Where is a good place to start (on the web, off
> the web, etc.)?  I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done
> modifications to my own.  I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Remshaw

- --
Steve Ravet
steve.ravet at arm.com
ARM,Inc.
www.arm.com
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 02:47:37 -0800
From: Ludis Langens <ludis at cruzers.com>
Subject: Winter gas vs summer gas

Has anyone here experienced problems with "winter" gas?  Especially the
oxygenated, reformulated, winter gas sold in California in (I think)
November, December, and January?

The previous two winters, the winter gas caused two of my vehicles to
occasionally ping under mild throttle conditions.  Each year, by the
time the weather warmed up enough (February) to consider diagnosing the
pinging, the problem went away.  One vehicle is PFI and the other has a
computer-carb.  A neighbor reported similar problems with a TBI engine.

This winter, I didn't have the pinging.  Instead, the carb vehicle liked
to stall when the engine was cool.  The engine acted/sounded like it
went totally pig rich, the rpms dropped, it started rich misfiring, and
eventually stalled.  I replaced a few "iffy" parts, but couldn't fully
solve the problem.  I've been driving around for several weeks with a
DVM hooked to the O2 sensor.  The DVM showed that the cool engine wasn't
nearly as rich as it sometimes got when fully warmed up.

A few days ago, I filled up with gas for the first time since January.
(30 gallon gas tank...)  Problem solved.  Hrmph!

- --
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/


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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:51:20 -0600
From: "David Gregory" <dcg1174 at tntech.edu>
Subject: RE: wiring diagram for Honda 1600 DOHC "ZC" engine

what you need is a Helms Manual( www.helminc.com )

Also you should check out www.hybrid.honda-perf.org and
www.crx.honda-perf.org.  Those guys can help you for sure.

But if i were you i'd get the Helms, no matter what (they are the same as
the "official" honda shop manual)
HTH,
David

P.S. if you have more questions, you can email me off list,
dcg1174 at tntech.edu, as this is decidedly off topic

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
Behalf Of Ade + Lamb Chop
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:09 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: OT: wiring diagram for Honda 1600 DOHC "ZC" engine


Hi All,

I have a DOHC non-vtec honda engine from a CRX (89) and an ECU
from an 88 honda integra ex16 (same engine). Both cars are UK
spec.

I am after a efi wiring diagrams so that I can get the engine to run. I
have a haynes manual that covers the US SOHC CRXs will that be
the same system?

Thanx,

Ade


ICQ. 75653589
www.adesite.co.uk
ade.honda-mini.co.uk
www.mini-list.com
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:01:11 -0500
From: "James Ballenger" <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
Subject: RE: CNP coils

	Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that
that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else..
The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and
dont have a cross ref to Gm part #.  The local AC Delco suppliers, namely GM
dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have to
do some traveling to get to one.  That gmpartsdirect site is great, too bad
I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up.

James Ballenger

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi at diy-efi.org]On
>Behalf Of Bruce Plecan
>Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM
>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subject: Re: CNP coils
>
>
>
>Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a
>Pigtail / Connector
>Catalog.   Has pics, and connectors cross referenced.
>Bruce
>
>
>
>From: "James Ballenger" <vtjballeng at yifan.net>
>
>> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am
>looking for the
>> harness side for hooking up.  Anyone have any ideas where I
>might find
>some
>> harness information?  The local auto stores don't have it or
>won't help me
>> out on this one.
>> James Ballenger
>
>
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:17:43 -0000
From: "Murphy, Ian" <Ian.Murphy at Arrows.com>
Subject: RE: MAP Sensor

MAP stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure, so substituting a gauge
(referenced to atmosphere) pressure is incorrect. MAP is often used to
calculate charge density and hence fuelling using thermodynamic / fluid
dynamics maths involving Ideal Gas laws.

Of course, if you include a Baro sensor when designing a system, you can
infer MAP from a gauge sensor.

Ian

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Mike Blakey [SMTP:mike.blakey at baesystems.com]
> Sent:	Friday, March 09, 2001 11:08 AM
> To:	DIY_EFI at lists.diy-efi.org; efi332 at lists.diy-efi.org
> Subject:	MAP Sensor
>
> My company has changed my e-mail address so I've resent this post...
>
> I have made my own MAP sensor from a differential bridge sensor (-1 to 0
> bar). It
> works fine but I'm unsure of the expected range on a manifold, so far I've
> only
> managed to get down to -780 mbar. If this is about typical I can alter the
> gain and
> span to get better resolution over the expected range.  My sensor also is
> differential to atmospheric pressure, where as the OEM sensors do not seem
> to be,
> is the correct?
>
>
>
> ********************************************************************
> This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
> recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender
> immediately by telephoning +44(1252) 373232. You should not copy it
> or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to
> any other person.
> ********************************************************************
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------------------------------

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