non profit

[Bernard Littau]

> > Bruce, this is primarily to you, but I think it should be aired in the
> > public of the list.
> > While the new GP of the WB boards has a board price of $3.99, I don't
see
> > how selling a board at $12.50 by Peter in and of itself violates the
> letter
> > or spirit of the Users Agreement on the WB Intellectual Property being
> used
> > only for personal and non-profit uses.
>
> Well, your not being able to see the point is rather mute.
> The Users agreement was written in a particular manner, to protect this
and
> other projects.  How hard can it be to see that folks that contribute huge
> amounts of time, didn't do so for the likes of Peter to cash in on.
> I can claim credit for some of how the users agreement is written, please
> don't try to tell me what the spirit of it is.

If you look carefully, in no way did I try to debate the users agreement.  I
just said that I cannot see, from the information that has been posted on
this list in the last six weeks, what Peter has violated in the users
agreement.  All I know is he sells boards for $12.50.

I am not arguing if anyone did or did not violate the users agreement.  I
would just like to know what the facts are so I can make an intelligent
decision.  I am sorry you feel my not being able to determine this is moot.
I think it is significant, as this issue is approaching 50% of the list
traffic.

I see emotions and propoganda.  I see flaming, acusation and innuendo.

I also see one very nice tool being given away for next to free by some
extremely generous people.  I do get the concept of it's our Intellectual
Property, we make the rules as to how it may be used.
I've read the Usage Conditions:
ftp://diy-efi.org/pub/diy_efi/project_files/diy_wb1/usage.txt
and the opening letter:
http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi/projects/diy_wb/

I understand that the writtten rules do not properly convey the spirit that
was intentded in this agreement, and I respect and abide by the
clarifications that have been disseminated in various posts to the list in
the last six weeks.  I can see clearly that the people who contibuted large
amounts of time and effort into a project such as the WB don't want it used
for profit by others.  Duh.

All I am missing is a few facts.

>
> > I've been following this list for six weeks now, and I have yet to see
any
> > real facts from either side.  You keep mentioning off-list
communications
> > and possible future plans on Peter's part.
> > How, specifically, has Peter violated the Users Agreement?
>
> You might ask Peter exactly what is included in his pricing.   He refuses
to
> admit on list what all he's up to.
> Peter, would you care to comment and admit on list what your pricing
> includes?.

OK, I have done this.

>
> > Who is the list administrator?  What is the policy for having someone
> > removed from the list?
>
> You might write and ask Orin that.
> orin at diy-efi.org

Orin stepped up to the plate and explained his position, both publicly and
privately.  Thank you, Orin!

>
> > If there is indeed a problem here, then let's air it out, and get it
over
> > with.  This ongoing battle of acusation and innuendo in email after
email
> is
> > indeed tiring.  I am not saying this issue is not important.   I don't
> want
> > to spend the rest of my life with people blasting each other on this
list
> > over this issue.  I am saying this issue is important, so let's do
> something
> > about it and move on.
>
> No one is blasting anyone, just stating facts.
> If your tired of it, write Peter and ask him to just quit cashing in on
the
> work of others, and violating the Users Agreement.
> You'll note I just write in response to his nonsense.

No, there have been very few facts indeed.  There has been quite a lot of
blasting and propaganda.
Take your last line above: You'll note I just write in response to his
nonsense.  That is propaganda, because you use the term nonsense.  Had it
been written:  You'll note I just write in response to his posts.  Then it
would be a fact.

I guess the viewpoint of one mere newbie to this wideband project is not a
big deal, and I should just be thankful for the generous shared effort, and
make use of the wideband sensor to tune my turbo Audi once I get the WB
built and functioning.

I am interested in an add-on device that takes the WB output, and mimics the
output of a normal O2 sensor.  I'd rather not tap another hole in my EM,
favoring replacing the existing O2 with a WB, and feeding the ECU derived
information for its closed loop needs.  I am sure I will need the input and
help of many on the list, and you specifically, Bruce, to make this happen.
It is not my intent to alienate anyone.

Best,

Bernard Littau
Woodinville, WA

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