WB Project
Joe Scruggs
TA81Joe at home.com
Sat Oct 27 06:01:12 GMT 2001
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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First of all, THANKS to ALL who contributed in any way to this project! =
What an excellent group effort!
This is an example of what a group of people can do with the right =
motivation -- wanting to know how things work; wanting to make things =
better; building and developing rather than just buying; the sharing of =
knowledge AND experience; learning new things; and there are other =
reasons that I'm sure people can add to these.
Another reason people join a group such as this is to simply save money. =
All of us like to save money, but if that is your ultimate goal for =
being in this group, then it increases the potential for conflict. Why? =
Because, that is not the primary motivation of this group. And I =
believe that leads to the basic reason for the conflict over the OZ =
situation. I've stayed out of the heated discussion so far, but it =
might be time for all to step back and take another look at the =
situation. It is usually beneficial to look at any conflict from both =
sides and try to understand the "WHY". You might not be able to solve =
anything, but it certainly makes it difficult if you don't.
Looking at the OZ side of things, it's easy to see the incentives. One =
person wants to be paid for his time. Not much, but a little for his =
time and expertise. Those that pay him to assemble it, do it for a =
couple of reasons. Either they do not know how and are not confident =
enough that they can learn without screwing it up -- or -- they can, =
but they would rather pay someone else to do it, because it's still a =
great deal when considering the design was free. Normally, there is =
nothing inherently wrong with saving (or making) money, so why the big =
controversy?
Well, let's look at the other side of the issue. Simply look at their =
motivation. As for myself, I have 2 boards and am waiting on parts. I =
contributed nothing but my time reading and purchasing components when =
the time came, but I will benefit greatly due to the contribution of =
others. The people that DID contribute, ask for nothing in return. =
They can get satisfaction out of the fact that they were instrumental in =
the project and knowing that others in the group will also know that =
they were. They have gained and given knowledge. And, YES, they will =
save much money over a comparable commercial product. That, however, is =
not their prime motivation. Look at the contributions throughout the =
group and that appears to be fairly obvious.
So, then you might ask why would they have such a problem with a person =
making a nominal fee for time spent assembling boards for other group =
members? After all, they paid a board shop to make the boards and that =
company most certainly was paid for its time. The difference is that =
the board manufacturer did not benefit from the knowledge of the group. =
They provide a service with equipment that most people do not have =
access to. Taking that to an even lower level, we cannot make the =
resistors, capacitors or any of the other electronic components. We had =
to purchase those from someone who could.
Discussion, disagreement and arguing can be productive in the long run, =
but this one seems to be creating an enormous rift that's leaving very =
bad feelings all around. What can we do to resolve it? I don't have =
the answer, but a little understanding will help. Alot of analysis over =
the semantics of agreements, charters or fine print is best left to the =
lawyers. Let's stick to what makes this group special.
I realize that there are people that have little or no experience =
soldering. They probably have little or no experience designing boards =
and circuits or spec'ing out oxygen sensors either. Ask for help! =
That's what we do when we ask for troubleshooting and tuning tips on =
this list isn't it? I saw several messages from people offering help =
with construction. There were multiple suggestions on wattage, tips, =
solder, etc. Certainly, these people could have gone to a number of =
places and paid to have them assembled without the group ever knowing. =
The difference was that a member of this group openly offered his =
services for a price, whereas all the other contributors offered their =
services for free. To all those that contributed their time and =
knowledge for nothing, It doesn't matter what the amount of money the =
other makes. They were offended (and it showed!). Whether you agree =
that they deserve to be offended is beside the point as long as you =
understand why they are.
I do not believe there are any bad people in this controversy. The =
group has some experience with "thieves" of knowledge and are evidently =
on the watch for them. I believe the intent of the assembly payment was =
not bad -- it just doesn't fit within the "spirit" of this group. =
Everyone's time is valuable!
Finally -- that was a long $0.02 worth!!!! :)
Joe
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3211.1700" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>First of all, THANKS to ALL who =
contributed in any=20
way to this project! What an excellent group effort!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is an example of what a group of =
people can do=20
with the right motivation -- wanting to know how things work; wanting to =
make=20
things better; building and developing rather than just buying; the =
sharing of=20
knowledge AND experience; learning new things; and there are other =
reasons that=20
I'm sure people can add to these.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Another reason people join a group such =
as this is=20
to simply save money. All of us like to save money, but if that is =
your=20
ultimate goal for being in this group, then it increases the potential =
for=20
conflict. Why? Because, that is not the primary =
motivation of=20
this group. And I believe that leads to the basic reason =
for the=20
conflict over the OZ situation. I've stayed out of the heated =
discussion=20
so far, but it might be time for all to step back and take another =
look at=20
the situation. </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is usually =
beneficial to=20
look at any conflict from both sides and try to understand the =
"WHY". =20
You might not be able to solve anything, but it certainly makes it =
difficult if=20
you don't.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Looking at the OZ side of things, it's =
easy to=20
see the incentives. One person wants to be paid for his =
time. =20
Not much, but a little for his time and expertise. Those that pay =
him to=20
assemble it, do it for a couple of reasons. Either they do not =
know how=20
and are not confident enough that they can learn without screwing it up =
-- or=20
-- they can, but they would rather pay someone else to do it, because =
it's still=20
a great deal when considering the design was free. Normally, =
there is=20
nothing inherently wrong with saving (or making) money, so why the big=20
controversy?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, let's look at the other side =
of the=20
issue. Simply loo</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>k at their motivation. As for myself, I have 2 =
boards and am=20
waiting on parts. I contributed nothing but my time reading =
and=20
purchasing components when the time came, but I will benefit greatly due =
to the=20
contribution of others. The people that DID contribute, ask for =
nothing in=20
return. They can get satisfaction out of the fact that they=20
were instrumental in the project and knowing that others in =
the group=20
will also know that they were. They have gained and given=20
knowledge. And, YES, they will save much money over a comparable=20
commercial product. That, however, is not their prime =
motivation. =20
Look at the contributions throughout the group and that appears to be =
fairly=20
obvious.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, then you might ask why would they =
have such a=20
problem with a person making a nominal fee for time spent assembling =
boards for=20
other group members? After all, they paid a board shop to make the =
boards=20
and that company most certainly was paid for its time. The =
difference is=20
that the board manufacturer did not benefit from the knowledge of the=20
group. They provide a service with equipment that most people do =
not have=20
access to. Taking that to an even lower level, we cannot make the=20
resistors, capacitors or any of the other electronic components. =
We had to=20
purchase those from someone who could.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Discussion, disagreement and arguing =
can be=20
productive in the long run, but this one seems to be creating an =
enormous rift=20
that's leaving very bad feelings all around. What can we do =
to=20
resolve it? I don't have the answer, but a little understanding =
will=20
help. Alot of analysis over the semantics of agreements, charters =
or fine=20
print is best left to the lawyers. Let's stick to what makes=20
this group special.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I realize that there are people that =
have little or=20
no experience soldering. They probably have little or no =
experience=20
designing boards and circuits or spec'ing out oxygen sensors =
either. Ask=20
for help! That's what we do when we ask for troubleshooting and =
tuning=20
tips on this list isn't it? I saw several messages from=20
people offering help with construction. There were multiple=20
suggestions on wattage, tips, solder, etc. Certainly, these people =
could=20
have gone to a number of places and paid to have them assembled =
without the=20
group ever knowing. The difference was that a member of this group =
openly=20
offered his services for a price, whereas all the other contributors =
offered=20
their services for free. To all those that contributed their time =
and=20
knowledge for nothing, It doesn't matter what the amount of money the =
other=20
makes. They were offended (and it showed!). Whether you =
agree that=20
they deserve to be offended is beside the point as long as you =
understand why=20
they are.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do not believe there are any bad people in this =
controversy. The=20
group has some experience with "thieves" of knowledge and are evidently =
on the=20
watch for them. I believe the intent of the assembly payment was =
not bad=20
-- it just doesn't fit within the "spirit" of this group. =
Everyone's time=20
is valuable!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Finally -- that was a long $0.02 worth!!!! :)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joe</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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