F1, trickle-down, etc.

[James Montebello]

Next to nothing?

Traction control is available on cheaper and cheaper cars.  Same with
semi-auto gearboxes.  Camless valves are in the experimental stages at
BMW.  Carbon brakes have just appeared on some Porsches, and will probably
appear on lesser cars in a few years.

Sounds to me like just about anything that's practical to move over is
being moved over.  All of the aero and suspension tech is mostly useless
on street cars.  The EFI systems have different goals, so no practical
transfer there, either.

As for transferring from racebikes to street bikes, single sided swingarms
appeared on street bikes FIRST (BMW, 1984), not the other way around.  
EFI is also not just an EPA thing.  Ducati's 851 racer had it when it was
only a racebike, and only appeared on its street machines later.  Upside
down forks are something of a wash, and mostly appear to be a fashion
item, esp. since bikes are going back and forth between the two types,
without any noticable changes in performance.

All this still avoids the first point: front-line racing bikes are NOT the
technological superiors of front-line racing cars.  I won't argue the
point that the typical sporting bike has far higher performance than the
typical sporting car, esp. when price/performance is factored in.  
However, much of that high-performance/low-price comes from vastly
different market expectations and regulations.  Bikes don't have to pass
crash tests.  They have significantly less burden in terms of emissions.  
They aren't expected to last nearly as long.  However, when one compares a
front-line 8-hours 4-stroke bike to a front-line F1 car, the bike will be
found wanting in the high-tech stakes.  I don't think it's reasonable to
compare a 500GP bike to an F1 car, since the chassis tech is simply not
comparable, and the engines are so vastly different in type (and the
2-strokes, have, by and large, remain unchanged for nearly 10 years). 

To say that bikes are in any way technologically superior to cars is
simply wrong, and was the only point I was refuting.  Bikes aren't
inherently inferior, either, but the ones currently available for sale,
are, in many ways, behind the most sophisticated cars insofar as advanced
technology is concerned.

james montebello


On Sat, 29 Sep 2001, Bob Wooten wrote:

> how much stuff do you see coming off an F1 car & onto a production based car
> that Johnny Middle level management can afford, my bet, next to nothing.
> how much comes off of Race bikes that gets into production bikes, quite a
> bit.  upside down forks, single sided swing arms, EFI (which was an EPA
> thing not a technology thing, IMO), ram air systems, etc.
> 
> I talk about real world things that us schmos can afford, not F1, or GP,
> stuff that only an elite few can afford.  I suppose that if I could afford
> it I could buy an F1 motor & stick it into my Camaro, now that would be
> trick, but kinda defeats the DIY part that I enjoy.
> 
> BW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm...For several years now, Kevin Cameron, an engineer who writes an
> excellent column for _Cycle World_, has said exactly the opposite.
> Current F1 engines have far higher specific outputs than current
> front-line 4-stroke motorcycle engines.  Pneumatic valve gear is not used
> by any of the bikes.  None of them approach the insane piston speeds
> currently seen by F1 engines, nor do they use materials anywhere near as
> exotic.  The 2-strokes used by the premier classes are not particularly
> sophisticated, and haven't been developed to significantly higher power
> levels in several years, primarily because their chassis and tires simply
> won't handle anymore than they have.
> 
> On street bikes, fuel injection has only very recently become commonplace,
> and still isn't universal on even the best-selling sporting machines.
> 
> Now that the premier class is switching from 2-strokes to 4-strokes, I
> expect we'll see some catching up.  But the very fact that they have to
> play catch up indicates that bikes are, in fact, quite a ways behind cars
> in the technology stakes.  Most bike companies are relatively small, and
> have tiny race budgets in compared to the F1 budgets of Mercedes, BMW,
> Renault, and Ford.  Honda is alone in serving both camps, and has
> certainly lead the 4-stroke charge in bike engines historically.
> 
> Perhaps 20 years ago, your statement was true.  It certainly hasn't
> been for the last 10 years, however.
> 
> james montebello
> 
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes)
> in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo at lists.diy-efi.org
> 
> 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes)
in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo at lists.diy-efi.org