[Diy_efi] HELP
legend88 at telusplanet.net
legend88 at telusplanet.net
Tue Dec 17 22:30:42 GMT 2002
Quoting diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Adam Wade)
> 2. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Erik Jacobs)
> 3. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Dave Dahlgren)
> 4. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Djfreggens at aol.com)
> 5. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Adam Wade)
> 6. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (William Shurvinton)
> 7. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Erik Jacobs)
> 8. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Adam Wade)
> 9. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Adam Wade)
> 10. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Adam Wade)
> 11. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Dave Dahlgren)
> 12. EGR and Valve phasing/lift (Tlsalt at aol.com)
> 13. Re: RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs (Adam Wade)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:54:29 -0800 (PST)
> From: Adam Wade <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> --- Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:
>
> > Over the last 20 years I have not found this to be
> > true at all.
>
> ...
>
> > The NTK wide band will read richer with the same
> > amount of fuel and if timing is advanced to optimal
> > it indicates leaner to the point I am tempted to add
> > more fuel.
>
> Which is why I don't use an O2 sensor of any sort for
> tuning on a dyno. While it is a fine toold for what
> it is, it cannot give nearly the depth of data that a
> four-gas analyzer can. It won't indicate rich or lean
> if the timing is not optimal. In fact, with training
> in what to look for, it is possible to see when a
> single cylinder is rich or lean from the rest
> (although you cannot tell which one unless you have
> probe ports in each runner of the exhaust manifold.
>
> =====
> | Adam Wade 1990 Kwak Zephyr 550 (Daphne) |
> | http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/espresso_doppio/lst?.dir=/ |
> | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it |
> | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. |
> | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
> | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun |
> | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut |
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Erik Jacobs" <emj14 at columbia.edu>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:55:04 -0500
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> > Which is why I don't use an O2 sensor of any sort for
> > tuning on a dyno. While it is a fine toold for what
> > it is, it cannot give nearly the depth of data that a
> > four-gas analyzer can. It won't indicate rich or lean
> > if the timing is not optimal. In fact, with training
> > in what to look for, it is possible to see when a
> > single cylinder is rich or lean from the rest
> > (although you cannot tell which one unless you have
> > probe ports in each runner of the exhaust manifold.
>
> a) how much is a four gas analyzer?
> b) is they a diy_fga list or something?
> c) why do most tuning places seem to use wbo2 over fga? price? ease of
> use??
>
> Can't you figure out if timing is optimal by EGT to a certain degree? (i
> havent been following the thread)
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:21:00 -0500
> From: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> How long does it take for this to stabilize and get good data? I had always
> thought and possibly incorrectly that they 4 gas analyzer was fairly slow
> in
> response time. Are they faster now so a 3 or 4 second pull will net good
> data?
> Most of the stuff I work on is pretty highly stressed so I am not so sure
> it
> would live through a 20 second pull at all the points that need to be
> programed.
> Most of the turbo stuff is over 1000 hp for a 3 liter engine the 2.1 liters
> are
> around 800..
> Dave
>
> Adam Wade wrote:
>
> > > The NTK wide band will read richer with the same
> > > amount of fuel and if timing is advanced to optimal
> > > it indicates leaner to the point I am tempted to add
> > > more fuel.
> >
> > Which is why I don't use an O2 sensor of any sort for
> > tuning on a dyno. While it is a fine toold for what
> > it is, it cannot give nearly the depth of data that a
> > four-gas analyzer can. It won't indicate rich or lean
> > if the timing is not optimal. In fact, with training
> > in what to look for, it is possible to see when a
> > single cylinder is rich or lean from the rest
> > (although you cannot tell which one unless you have
> > probe ports in each runner of the exhaust manifold.
> >
> > =====
> > | Adam Wade
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: Djfreggens at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:16:06 EST
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> <PRE>timing is optimal when max TQ at each load point and rpm has been
> achieved.
> now this will for sure cuase emisions issues(high NOX2). then use EGR to
> bring it under control. my 2 cents anyways. aside form all of that there is
>
> still the issue of throttle repsonse it may want more or less depends on the
>
> effieceny of the combustion chamber, injector position, and enrichment
> avialble and the time it takes for it to reach the combustion chamber. as for
>
> fueling a WB02 has been used many times and with good results i say it
> depends on the person veiwing the data. me when i can i get use of a 5gas
> anaylizer. cant beat it hands down but man that thing is exspsnsive.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:20:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: Adam Wade <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> --- Erik Jacobs <emj14 at columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> > a) how much is a four gas analyzer?
>
> A tremendous amount of money. The O2 sensor is truly
> more than enough for most people.
>
> > b) is they a diy_fga list or something?
>
> Well, if you want to put it that way, this isn't the
> diy_wb list, either. I was simply replying to a
> comment that the WBO2 was "fooled" into seeing rich or
> lean based on changes in ignition timing.
>
> > c) why do most tuning places seem to use wbo2 over
> > fga?
>
> Couldn't tell you. I can tell you that in my
> experience, the ones that use inertial dynos and O2
> sensors for highly-responsive motors always get worse
> results than places that use eddy current dynos and
> four-gas analyzers (having worked with and for both at
> the racetrack, and retuned bikes going both
> directions).
>
> > price? ease of use??
>
> An eddy current with a four-gas is as easy to use as
> an inertial with an O2 sensor, so price may be a
> factor, although the price difference is pretty small
> as a ratio to the overall investment in hardware.
>
> > Can't you figure out if timing is optimal by EGT to
> > a certain degree? (i havent been following the
> > thread)
>
> Not as far as I have been able to determine. In fact,
> inertial dynos don't have the precision to see small
> changes in timing or fueling, but lap times tell no
> lies... And they match the results I've gotten with
> an eddy current and a four-gas.
>
> In any case, I was merely pointing out that with a
> four-gas, you can tune for optimal timing based on
> exhaust gases, and all you need to do is hold the
> vehicle steady-state at a given load to do so. An
> eddy current dyno happens to be the easiest way I have
> found to obtain that.
>
> =====
> | Adam Wade 1990 Kwak Zephyr 550 (Daphne) |
> | http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/espresso_doppio/lst?.dir=/ |
> | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it |
> | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. |
> | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
> | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun |
> | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut |
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "William Shurvinton" <shurvinton at orange.net>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:26:54 -0000
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> Can you just clairfy this. We are short on 'popular' engine tuners here in
> the UK, but perceived wisdom here is that 4 gas is only useable on an
> engine
> dyno as response time is too slow for a chassis dyno.
>
> Have you found a way around this, or is your tuning limited to engine dyno
> work?
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Wade" <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 7:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
>
>
> > --- Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Over the last 20 years I have not found this to be
> > > true at all.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > The NTK wide band will read richer with the same
> > > amount of fuel and if timing is advanced to optimal
> > > it indicates leaner to the point I am tempted to add
> > > more fuel.
> >
> > Which is why I don't use an O2 sensor of any sort for
> > tuning on a dyno. While it is a fine toold for what
> > it is, it cannot give nearly the depth of data that a
> > four-gas analyzer can. I
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: "Erik Jacobs" <emj14 at columbia.edu>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:24:13 -0500
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> > Not as far as I have been able to determine. In fact,
> > inertial dynos don't have the precision to see small
> > changes in timing or fueling, but lap times tell no
> > lies... And they match the results I've gotten with
> > an eddy current and a four-gas.
>
> An inertial dyno is, for example, a dynojet??
>
> What's an example of an eddy-current dyno??
>
> > In any case, I was merely pointing out that with a
> > four-gas, you can tune for optimal timing based on
> > exhaust gases, and all you need to do is hold the
> > vehicle steady-state at a given load to do so. An
> > eddy current dyno happens to be the easiest way I have
> > found to obtain that.
>
> Well for someone who isn't fighting for tens of horsepower, let alone
> tenths
> of horsepower, is inertial dyno (dynojet) + wbo2 + competent tuner good
> enough?? =)
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:30:17 -0800 (PST)
> From: Adam Wade <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> --- Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:
>
> > How long does it take for this to stabilize and get
> > good data?
>
> A lot depends on the length of your exhaust system. I
> used it with motorcycles, and it took about a half a
> second for the exhaust gas readings to stabilize
> enough for a clean reading.
>
> > I had always thought and possibly incorrectly that
> > they 4 gas analyzer was fairly slow in response
> > time.
>
> Oh, it would be totally unusable on an inertial dyno.
> then again, so would any tailpipe gas reader,
> including an O2 sensor. Most of the lag is the time
> the gases take to get to the end of the exhaust
> system. If you had a port up near the cylinder head,
> that time would be cut dramatically. There would
> still be more of a lag for a four-gas, but since an
> eddy current dyno steady-states the speed and load of
> the vehicle, you could wait indefinitely, as long as
> you had sufficient cooling air.
>
> > Are they faster now so a 3 or 4 second pull will net
> > good data?
>
> I can't speak for putting a probe down the tailpipe of
> a car, but I can get a load/speed site accurately
> analyzed on an eddy current dyno with a four-gas on a
> motorcycle in that time period, consistently, yes.
>
> > Most of the stuff I work on is pretty highly
> > stressed so I am not so sure it would live through a
> > 20 second pull at all the points that need to be
> > programed.
>
> Ugh, I wouldn't want to do that to a motor in any
> case, but no, you should not have to do that.
>
> > Most of the turbo stuff is over 1000 hp for a 3
> > liter engine the 2.1 liters are around 800..
>
> The only trick here is that I am not sure who makes an
> eddy-current dyno that can handle that kind of
> power... If you were interested in going that route,
> I could put you in touch with people who would know,
> though.
>
> The biggest trick, as I am sure you know, is getting
> the exhaust gases as soon as you can so you don't have
> to wait for them to come out the tailpipe.
>
> =====
> | Adam Wade 1990 Kwak Zephyr 550 (Daphne) |
> | http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/espresso_doppio/lst?.dir=/ |
> | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it |
> | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. |
> | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
> | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun |
> | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut |
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:35:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Adam Wade <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> --- Erik Jacobs <emj14 at columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> > An inertial dyno is, for example, a dynojet??
>
> Yes.
>
> > What's an example of an eddy-current dyno??
>
> Factory Pro, Mustang, Fuchs, Superflow are all eddy
> current, with varying mass of the drum (the more
> massive the drum, the more inertial factor you have to
> "dial in".
>
> > Well for someone who isn't fighting for tens of
> > horsepower, let alone tenths of horsepower, is
> > inertial dyno (dynojet) + wbo2 + competent tuner
> good
> > enough?? =)
>
> *frown* I'll have to give a qualified "that depends".
> the only thing that an inertial dyno can really
> measure is a single load condition, beacuse you cannot
> vary the load. It also cannot be held on a load/speed
> site for more than a small fraction of a second.
>
> With carbs, I have found it to be a useful tool for
> picking a main jet, since usually the roller is sized
> to give a fair amount of load compared to maximum.
> For tuning part-throttle and cruise mixtures, I have
> not found it very much help at all, and driving the
> car around and using an O2 sensor on the road would
> probably net superior results than trying on the dyno
> first and then going driving for the "final". Again,
> YMMV, and different kinds of applications may find
> different hardware is better suited; this is only MY
> experience with motorcycle engines (50-200 bhp) on
> dynos designed for those vehicles.
>
> =====
> | Adam Wade 1990 Kwak Zephyr 550 (Daphne) |
> | http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/espresso_doppio/lst?.dir=/ |
> | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it |
> | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. |
> | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
> | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun |
> | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut |
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:40:59 -0800 (PST)
> From: Adam Wade <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> --- William Shurvinton <shurvinton at orange.net> wrote:
>
> > Can you just clairfy this. We are short on 'popular'
> > engine tuners here in the UK, but perceived wisdom
> > here is that 4 gas is only useable on an engine
> > dyno as response time is too slow for a chassis
> > dyno.
>
> I'm not exactly sure why it would make a difference!
> :D There's no reason you can't run a chassis dyno
> indefinitely at a given load/speed site, assuming the
> drivetrain and engine of the vehicle are up to it.
>
> Again, the big trick is to get to your sample exhaust
> gases as quickly as possible. To get a solid reading
> out of the tailpipe of a 1971 Pontiac would obviously
> take a lot longer than to get a reading out of a 2002
> Honda motorcycle. I would recommend creating a port
> in the exhaust after the collection point from the
> header/manifold if you have a very long exhuast. But
> the analyzers have been improving steadily over recent
> years as well.
>
> > Have you found a way around this, or is your tuning
> > limited to engine dyno work?
>
> Actually, all the work I have every done with dynos
> has been chassis dynos; again, though, they are
> motorcycle chassis dynos. My experience outside that
> arena is extremely limited, and I cannot vouch for the
> hardware being used in, say, automotive chassis dynos.
>
> =====
> | Adam Wade 1990 Kwak Zephyr 550 (Daphne) |
> | http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/espresso_doppio/lst?.dir=/ |
> | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it |
> | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. |
> | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
> | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun |
> | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut |
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:03:03 -0500
> From: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net>
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> Most of the tuning I do is on pretty conventional water brake dyno and they
> are
> computer controlled so will hold any programed speed until the engine breaks
> or
> runs out of fuel LOL.. What is the analyzer of choice and where is there
> some
> good reading on what it will do and what readings indicate what conditions?
> I.E.
> timing retarded or over advanced etc.. other question I do a fair amount of
> tuning on the road.. how big is it becomes the next question a well. Not an
> argument for or against but size does matter.
> Dave
>
> Adam Wade wrote:
> >
> > --- Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:
> >
> > > How long does it take for this to stabilize and get
> > > good data?
> >
> > A lot depends on the length of your exhaust system. I
> > used it with motorcycles, and it took about a half a
> > second for the exhaust gas readings to stabilize
> > enough for a clean reading.
> >
> > > I had always thought and possibly incorrectly that
> > > they 4 gas analyzer was fairly slow in response
> > > time.
> >
> > Oh, it would be totally unusable on an inertial dyno.
> > then again, so would any tailpipe gas reader,
> > including an O2 sensor. Most of the lag is the time
> > the gases take to get to the end of the exhaust
> > system. If you had a port up near the cylinder head,
> > that time would be cut dramatically. There would
> > still be more of a lag for a four-gas, but since an
> > eddy current dyno steady-states the speed and load of
> > the vehicle, you could wait indefinitely, as long as
> > you had sufficient cooling air.
> >
> > > Are they faster now so a 3 or 4 second pull will net
> > > good data?
> >
> > I can't speak for putting a probe down the tailpipe of
> > a car, but I can get a load/speed site accurately
> > analyzed on an eddy current dyno with a four-gas on a
> > motorcycle in that time period, consistently, yes.
> >
> > > Most of the stuff I work on is pretty highly
> > > stressed so I am not so sure it would live through a
> > > 20 second pull at all the points that need to be
> > > programed.
> >
> > Ugh, I wouldn't want to do that to a motor in any
> > case, but no, you should not have to do that.
> >
> > > Most of the turbo stuff is over 1000 hp for a 3
> > > liter engine the 2.1 liters are around 800..
> >
> > The only trick here is that I am not sure who makes an
> > eddy-current dyno that can handle that kind of
> > power... If you were interested in going that route,
> > I could put you in touch with people who would know,
> > though.
> >
> > The biggest trick, as I am sure you know, is getting
> > the exhaust gases as soon as you can so you don't have
> > to wait for them to come out the tailpipe.
> >
> > =====
> > | Adam Wade 1990 Kwak Zephyr 550 (Daphne) |
> > | http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/espresso_doppio/lst?.dir=/ |
> > | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it |
> > | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. |
> > | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
> > | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun |
> > | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut |
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Diy_efi mailing list
> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> From: Tlsalt at aol.com
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:06:40 EST
> Subject: [Diy_efi] EGR and Valve phasing/lift
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> Perry Harrington wrote,
>
> What I was thinking was making a custom head with 2 cylinders
> in the exhaust and intake tracts that rotate to allow gases through. You
> essentially have a cylinder big enough to flow the full intake/exhaust flow
> when turned to 90 degrees, but blocks off the flow and seals the combustion
> chamber when at 0 degrees.
>
> Hello Perry,
>
> This idea is very similar to the Cross rotary valve engines from the 1930's.
>
> They used a single rotary valve (your cylinder), on top of the combustion
> chamber, perpendicular to the bore axis. One end of the valve (cylinder)
> connected to intake, the other side connected to exhaust through a window in
>
> the top of the combustion chamber. In other words, the intake and exhaust
> ports were in the center of the spinning rotary valve (at a half crank
> speed). It was good for 195 psi bmep on 66 octane fuel, but sealing the
> spinning valve was the problem. Also where to put the spark plug ? There are
>
> also rotating combustion chamber designs that have windows that align with
> the ports,but sealing, lubrication and friction are the issues. Yamaha also
>
> used a rotating valve to change the dimension of the exhaust port on their
> last two stroke road bike.
>
> Paul Saltwick
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:18:50 -0800 (PST)
> From: Adam Wade <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] RE: Diy_efi digest, Vol 1 #413 - 12 msgs
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> --- Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren at snet.net> wrote:
>
> > Most of the tuning I do is on pretty conventional
> > water brake dyno and they are computer controlled so
> > will hold any programed speed until the engine
> > breaks or runs out of fuel LOL..
>
> A water brake dyno should be controllable in much the
> same way an eddy current dyno is... I would think,
> based on my understanding, that a water brake would be
> a better choice for larger, higher-horsepower
> machines, and eddy current for the opposite (just in
> terms of space required, ease of construction, power
> handled, etc.).
>
> > What is the analyzer of choice
>
> You know, I am not entirely certain where the
> analyzers are sourced from (4- or 5-gas are available
> from the manufacturer for which I used to work, but a
> 4-gas is used by them for their development work), but
> I could probably find out if you wanted one, or they
> could supply one (I'm not sure I could definitely pry
> the info out of them! :D ).
>
> > and where is there some good reading on what it will
> > do and what readings indicate what conditions? I.E.
> > timing retarded or over advanced etc..
>
> Actually, I've never seen it documented. :( One
> thing I can tell you is that there will be variations
> in what "ideal" is based on cam profile, tract
> lengths, combustion chamber shape, atomization, and on
> and on... My experience has been that there are
> TRENDS you can see in how things change based on
> changes you make, so you can tell what direction you
> are going in, and once you play around a little bit
> and find "ideal" gas output for a given engine, then
> you can use that information as a target on other
> load/speed sites. It won't be exact on every
> load/speed site, of course, but will get you very
> close... Much like a WBO2 sensor will, but it will
> allow you to see things like even fueling of
> multi-cylinder engines and ignition timing, as well as
> straight mixture. Again, thus is my own experience,
> and not etched in stone for all applications.
>
> I can give you a few people to talk to if you want to
> get some ideas about trenads and what to look for in
> terms of diagnosing particular issues. I *wish* they
> would write it all down. Once I am done with the
> three books I have in the pipeline, I may sit down
> with them and ghost-write a book on that subject
> (although beyond this mailing list, I'm not sure how
> many sales I could expect! ;)
>
> > other question I do a fair amount of tuning on the
> > road.. how big is it becomes the next question a
> > well. Not an argument for or against but size does
> > matter.
>
> How big is the analyzer? The acutal unit is smaller
> than a micro-ATX board in a matching case. There are
> a few pumps and so forth, filters, that would make a
> package that could comfortably sit about a foot tall
> in the passenger seat of a standard car. For best
> effect, you'd need to route the probe through a hole
> in the firewall and get exhaust gas readings right
> after the manifold (via an exhaust port).
>
> =====
> | Adam Wade 1990 Kwak Zephyr 550 (Daphne) |
> | http://y42.photos.yahoo.com/bc/espresso_doppio/lst?.dir=/ |
> | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it |
> | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. |
> | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
> | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun |
> | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut |
>
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>
>
> --__--__--
>
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>
> End of Diy_efi Digest
>
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