[Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project
Bevan Weiss
kaizen__ at hotmail.com
Tue Nov 5 15:18:10 GMT 2002
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Gold still reacts with the halogens, and also with acids (ie aqua regia, =
HCL + HNO3, 3:1)
----- Original Message -----=20
From: josh lane=20
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project
umm I believe gold is as stable as it gets?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bevan Weiss=20
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Wade" <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project
> --- Eric D Byrd <klox at juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Every electrical component ever manufactured
> > eventually -- eventually -- experiences changes in
> > its operating characteristics due to age, especially
> > if heat is involved, and more especially if extreme
> > variation of temperature is involved.
>
> True, except this isn't a sensor in the traditional
> sense. It's simply a resistive wire, and if that
> changes its resistance vs. temperature profile, then
> we'll have to rewrite physics! :D
>
> If there is a solid-state temperature sensor involved,
> then there's definitely more of a reason to worry
> about calibration changing, however.
Any time you want precision comparison (or measurement) you should =
be
worried about the comparison (or measurement) device changing value. =
How
accurately you want to measure corresponds to how much you should =
worry...
> > And you are right, physics does not go out of
> > calibration. The trouble is, the devices we build
> > often don't account for physical effects that seem
> > irrelevant, or that we don't know about.
>
> Therein lies the learning curve. ;) Many of these
> manufacturers (Bosch especially) have been doing this
> for eons, just about, and they don't tend to get
> surprised too often. ;)
>
> > It's a mistake to assume a device will never
> > experience variations in its response, from
> > physical effects we haven't accounted for.
>
> Again, it would be a pretty spectacular upheaval of
> the laws of physics if a stable metal changed its
> resistive characteristics over time, AFAIK. ;)
What's a stable metal???
Certainly none that I know of.
Iron reacts with oxygen to give various IronOxides.
Aluminium reacts with oxygen to give AluminiumOxide
Copper easily tarnishes, and reacts with oxygen, chlorine, bromine, =
pretty
mcuh anything
Sodium can jetboat around on water, before bursting into flame.
I'm not sure of where you can obtain a stable metal.
> > It's worthwhile to educate, and be educated. But I
> > have better things to do with my time, than trade
> > verbal abuse.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gold still reacts with the halogens, =
and also with=20
acids (ie aqua regia, HCL + HNO3, 3:1)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djlane at dtgnet.com href=3D"mailto:jlane at dtgnet.com">josh =
lane</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 04, 2002 =
5:44=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie =
with a=20
simplified Motronic project</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>umm I believe gold is as stable as it =
gets?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkaizen__ at hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:kaizen__ at hotmail.com">Bevan=20
Weiss</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 03, =
2002 2:05=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie =
with a=20
simplified Motronic project</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Adam Wade" =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:espresso_doppio at yahoo.com">espresso_doppio at yahoo.com</A>&g=
t;<BR>To:=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A>><BR>Sent: =
Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:34 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie =
with a=20
simplified Motronic project<BR><BR><BR>> --- Eric D Byrd <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:klox at juno.com">klox at juno.com</A>> =
wrote:<BR>><BR>>=20
> Every electrical component ever manufactured<BR>> > =
eventually --=20
eventually -- experiences changes in<BR>> > its operating=20
characteristics due to age, especially<BR>> > if heat is =
involved, and=20
more especially if extreme<BR>> > variation of temperature is=20
involved.<BR>><BR>> True, except this isn't a sensor in the=20
traditional<BR>> sense. It's simply a resistive wire, and =
if=20
that<BR>> changes its resistance vs. temperature profile, =
then<BR>>=20
we'll have to rewrite physics! :D<BR>><BR>> If there is =
a=20
solid-state temperature sensor involved,<BR>> then there's =
definitely=20
more of a reason to worry<BR>> about calibration changing,=20
however.<BR>Any time you want precision comparison (or measurement) =
you=20
should be<BR>worried about the comparison (or measurement) device =
changing=20
value. How<BR>accurately you want to measure corresponds to =
how much=20
you should worry...<BR><BR><BR>> > And you are right, physics =
does not=20
go out of<BR>> > calibration. The trouble is, the =
devices we=20
build<BR>> > often don't account for physical effects that=20
seem<BR>> > irrelevant, or that we don't know =
about.<BR>><BR>>=20
Therein lies the learning curve. ;) Many of =
these<BR>>=20
manufacturers (Bosch especially) have been doing this<BR>> for =
eons, just=20
about, and they don't tend to get<BR>> surprised too often. =
;)<BR>><BR>> > It's a mistake to assume a device will =
never<BR>>=20
> experience variations in its response, from<BR>> > =
physical=20
effects we haven't accounted for.<BR>><BR>> Again, it would be =
a=20
pretty spectacular upheaval of<BR>> the laws of physics if a =
stable metal=20
changed its<BR>> resistive characteristics over time, =
AFAIK. =20
;)<BR><BR>What's a stable metal???<BR>Certainly none that I know =
of.<BR>Iron=20
reacts with oxygen to give various IronOxides.<BR>Aluminium reacts =
with=20
oxygen to give AluminiumOxide<BR>Copper easily tarnishes, and reacts =
with=20
oxygen, chlorine, bromine, pretty<BR>mcuh anything<BR>Sodium can =
jetboat=20
around on water, before bursting into flame.<BR><BR>I'm not sure of =
where=20
you can obtain a stable metal.<BR><BR><BR>> > It's worthwhile =
to=20
educate, and be educated. But I<BR>> > have better =
things to do=20
with my time, than trade<BR>> > verbal=20
=
abuse.<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Diy_efi =
mailing list<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Diy_efi at diy-efi.org">Diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi">http://www.diy-e=
fi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
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