[Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project

Bevan Weiss kaizen__ at hotmail.com
Tue Nov 5 15:18:10 GMT 2002


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Gold still reacts with the halogens, and also with acids (ie aqua regia, =
HCL + HNO3, 3:1)
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: josh lane=20
  To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project


  umm I believe gold is as stable as it gets?
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Bevan Weiss=20
    To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
    Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:05 PM
    Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project



    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Adam Wade" <espresso_doppio at yahoo.com>
    To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
    Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:34 PM
    Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie with a simplified Motronic project


    > --- Eric D Byrd <klox at juno.com> wrote:
    >
    > > Every electrical component ever manufactured
    > > eventually -- eventually -- experiences changes in
    > > its operating characteristics due to age, especially
    > > if heat is involved, and more especially if extreme
    > > variation of temperature is involved.
    >
    > True, except this isn't a sensor in the traditional
    > sense.  It's simply a resistive wire, and if that
    > changes its resistance vs. temperature profile, then
    > we'll have to rewrite physics!  :D
    >
    > If there is a solid-state temperature sensor involved,
    > then there's definitely more of a reason to worry
    > about calibration changing, however.
    Any time you want precision comparison (or measurement) you should =
be
    worried about the comparison (or measurement) device changing value. =
 How
    accurately you want to measure corresponds to how much you should =
worry...


    > > And you are right, physics does not go out of
    > > calibration.  The trouble is, the devices we build
    > > often don't account for physical effects that seem
    > > irrelevant, or that we don't know about.
    >
    > Therein lies the learning curve.  ;)  Many of these
    > manufacturers (Bosch especially) have been doing this
    > for eons, just about, and they don't tend to get
    > surprised too often.  ;)
    >
    > > It's a mistake to assume a device will never
    > > experience variations in its response, from
    > > physical effects we haven't accounted for.
    >
    > Again, it would be a pretty spectacular upheaval of
    > the laws of physics if a stable metal changed its
    > resistive characteristics over time, AFAIK.  ;)

    What's a stable metal???
    Certainly none that I know of.
    Iron reacts with oxygen to give various IronOxides.
    Aluminium reacts with oxygen to give AluminiumOxide
    Copper easily tarnishes, and reacts with oxygen, chlorine, bromine, =
pretty
    mcuh anything
    Sodium can jetboat around on water, before bursting into flame.

    I'm not sure of where you can obtain a stable metal.


    > > It's worthwhile to educate, and be educated.  But I
    > > have better things to do with my time, than trade
    > > verbal abuse.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Gold still reacts with the halogens, =
and also with=20
acids (ie aqua regia, HCL + HNO3, 3:1)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djlane at dtgnet.com href=3D"mailto:jlane at dtgnet.com">josh =
lane</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 04, 2002 =
5:44=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie =
with a=20
  simplified Motronic project</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>umm I believe gold is as stable as it =

  gets?</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dkaizen__ at hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:kaizen__ at hotmail.com">Bevan=20
    Weiss</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
    href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 03, =
2002 2:05=20
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie =
with a=20
    simplified Motronic project</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Adam Wade" =
&lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:espresso_doppio at yahoo.com">espresso_doppio at yahoo.com</A>&g=
t;<BR>To:=20
    &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A>&gt;<BR>Sent: =

    Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:34 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Newbie =
with a=20
    simplified Motronic project<BR><BR><BR>&gt; --- Eric D Byrd &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:klox at juno.com">klox at juno.com</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; Every electrical component ever manufactured<BR>&gt; &gt; =
eventually --=20
    eventually -- experiences changes in<BR>&gt; &gt; its operating=20
    characteristics due to age, especially<BR>&gt; &gt; if heat is =
involved, and=20
    more especially if extreme<BR>&gt; &gt; variation of temperature is=20
    involved.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; True, except this isn't a sensor in the=20
    traditional<BR>&gt; sense.&nbsp; It's simply a resistive wire, and =
if=20
    that<BR>&gt; changes its resistance vs. temperature profile, =
then<BR>&gt;=20
    we'll have to rewrite physics!&nbsp; :D<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If there is =
a=20
    solid-state temperature sensor involved,<BR>&gt; then there's =
definitely=20
    more of a reason to worry<BR>&gt; about calibration changing,=20
    however.<BR>Any time you want precision comparison (or measurement) =
you=20
    should be<BR>worried about the comparison (or measurement) device =
changing=20
    value.&nbsp; How<BR>accurately you want to measure corresponds to =
how much=20
    you should worry...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; And you are right, physics =
does not=20
    go out of<BR>&gt; &gt; calibration.&nbsp; The trouble is, the =
devices we=20
    build<BR>&gt; &gt; often don't account for physical effects that=20
    seem<BR>&gt; &gt; irrelevant, or that we don't know =
about.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;=20
    Therein lies the learning curve.&nbsp; ;)&nbsp; Many of =
these<BR>&gt;=20
    manufacturers (Bosch especially) have been doing this<BR>&gt; for =
eons, just=20
    about, and they don't tend to get<BR>&gt; surprised too often.&nbsp; =

    ;)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It's a mistake to assume a device will =
never<BR>&gt;=20
    &gt; experience variations in its response, from<BR>&gt; &gt; =
physical=20
    effects we haven't accounted for.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Again, it would be =
a=20
    pretty spectacular upheaval of<BR>&gt; the laws of physics if a =
stable metal=20
    changed its<BR>&gt; resistive characteristics over time, =
AFAIK.&nbsp;=20
    ;)<BR><BR>What's a stable metal???<BR>Certainly none that I know =
of.<BR>Iron=20
    reacts with oxygen to give various IronOxides.<BR>Aluminium reacts =
with=20
    oxygen to give AluminiumOxide<BR>Copper easily tarnishes, and reacts =
with=20
    oxygen, chlorine, bromine, pretty<BR>mcuh anything<BR>Sodium can =
jetboat=20
    around on water, before bursting into flame.<BR><BR>I'm not sure of =
where=20
    you can obtain a stable metal.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It's worthwhile =
to=20
    educate, and be educated.&nbsp; But I<BR>&gt; &gt; have better =
things to do=20
    with my time, than trade<BR>&gt; &gt; verbal=20
    =
abuse.<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Diy_efi =

    mailing list<BR><A=20
    href=3D"mailto:Diy_efi at diy-efi.org">Diy_efi at diy-efi.org</A><BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi">http://www.diy-e=
fi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
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