[Diy_efi] Need help from the experts - Your going to love this
ralph granchelli
rgranchelli at yahoo.com
Mon Feb 21 00:15:01 GMT 2005
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Because of the variable timing issue I went to the distributor.For a distributor I used a Crane Street/race optically triggered distributor with programmable centrifugal and vacuum advance. It has a built in MAP sensor.
I pulled the cap to check out the led and receiver and to my surprise the rotor metal contact is all chewed up and the cap graphire center section is nuked. I checked to make sure the rotor was fully seated and the roll pin on the top was not fully pressed in causing the rotor to ride aboul 10 mils too high.
Rgds,
RG
Bret Levandowski <skishop69 at yahoo.com> wrote:
It actually ran @80!! Check your pick-up assembly in the dist. With the Pantera, you'll find one of two things. They might be corroded causing magnetic flux and false triggering. Also, check the top of the shaft for lateral play. One other thing to check, but you'll have to pull the dist. The roll pin that holds the drive gear to the dist shaft may no longer be, or may be loose. Ford had a problem with both the bushings and the roll pins. HTH... Ski
ralph granchelli <rgranchelli at yahoo.com> wrote: This morning armed with everyones inputs I went to the garage and fired up the pantera. The first thing I did was to examine the spray pattern of the primary injectors when running normally and when in what I used to call the lean state.
There was definately a differnce. It also sounded to me like the timing was off when this happened
Of course checking the timing on the Pantera is no small task.So I pulled the seats, interior and firewall cover. When starting and running normally the timing is about 12 BTDC. However when not running right, the timing is about 80BTDC
So I have an ignition triggering problem and not an EFI problem after all
I'll post the results when I figure it out
TNX & Rgds
RG
AZ
"Marcello A. Belloli" <mbelloli at speedymotorsports.com> wrote:
RG,
I just got a chance to read this thread. I agree that looking at the
wavepattern of the electrical side of the injector will not tell you
a lot about the mechanical end of the injector. But I know what
would. What about using a map sensor on the fuel pressure regulator.
You see the pressure pulses from each injector. Now this isn't
perfect either, but when one or a couple of injectors are acting up
you can easily see them. We've been using this meathod for a while
at the shop I work. The injector wavepattern can show you the
opening and closing of the valve in a perfect world, but not usually
in the car. I took a one day class where they showed us how to see
the opening, closing of an injector with a vertronix scope. But they
were showing us with a dry inector, and the pattern was easy to see.
When we went to go do the same thing on the car, it just didn't work
that easy. We use a fuel tank pressure sensor...I'll find the part
number tomorrow when I go to work, with a simply 7805 regulator.
This is a map type sensor with a 0-4psi range...not the same as the
one used for measuring engine vaccum. Just an idea.
Marcello
> Thanks Will, Tobjorn & Brett for your comments and suggestions
>
> I plan to take a look at it again tomorrow or Monday
>
> I'll let you guys know what I see
>
> TNX & Rgds,
>
> RG
> AZ
>
> Bret Levandowski wrote:
> My Bad!! I got that backwards. I had to go back and remember. You sould
> see a slight DROP in the current. Wow, shouldn't have gone to work today.
> Too much brain fry. Ski
>
> WSCowell at aol.com wrote: Well, if I'm right, it won't make a difference
> whether you look at voltage or current waveform, because they simply tell
> you about the electrical performance of the winding in the injector. What
> you really want to know is a purely mechanical thing, i.e. "Is the
> injector lifting off its seat cleanly when pulsed? What is its spray
> pattern like? Does it deliver fuel at the correct rate?" That sort of
> stuff.
>
> What I'm leading up to is that I don't think electrical measurements will
> tell you anything about the important bit inside the injector, the valve
> itself, that lets the fuel through when opened by current flowing through
> the winding.
>
> Regards
>
> Will
>
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<DIV>Because of the variable timing issue I went to the distributor.For a distributor I used a Crane Street/race optically triggered distributor with programmable centrifugal and vacuum advance. It has a built in MAP sensor.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> I pulled the cap to check out the led and receiver and to my surprise the rotor metal contact is all chewed up and the cap graphire center section is nuked. I checked to make sure the rotor was fully seated and the roll pin on the top was not fully pressed in causing the rotor to ride aboul 10 mils too high.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rgds,</DIV>
<DIV>RG</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Bret Levandowski <skishop69 at yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV>It actually ran @80!! Check your pick-up assembly in the dist. With the Pantera, you'll find one of two things. They might be corroded causing magnetic flux and false triggering. Also, check the top of the shaft for lateral play. One other thing to check, but you'll have to pull the dist. The roll pin that holds the drive gear to the dist shaft may no longer be, or may be loose. Ford had a problem with both the bushings and the roll pins. HTH... Ski<BR><BR><B><I>ralph granchelli <rgranchelli at yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV>This morning armed with everyones inputs I went to the garage and fired up the pantera. The first thing I did was to examine the spray pattern of the primary injectors when running normally and when in what I used to call the lean state.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There was definately a differnce. It also sounded to me like the timing was off when this happened</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Of course checking the timing on the Pantera is no small task.So I pulled the seats, interior and firewall cover. When starting and running normally the timing is about 12 BTDC. However when not running right, the timing is about 80BTDC</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So I have an ignition triggering problem and not an EFI problem after all</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'll post the results when I figure it out</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>TNX & Rgds</DIV>
<DIV>RG</DIV>
<DIV>AZ<BR><BR><B><I>"Marcello A. Belloli" <mbelloli at speedymotorsports.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">RG,<BR>I just got a chance to read this thread. I agree that looking at the<BR>wavepattern of the electrical side of the injector will not tell you<BR>a lot about the mechanical end of the injector. But I know what<BR>would. What about using a map sensor on the fuel pressure regulator.<BR>You see the pressure pulses from each injector. Now this isn't<BR>perfect either, but when one or a couple of injectors are acting up<BR>you can easily see them. We've been using this meathod for a while<BR>at the shop I work. The injector wavepattern can show you the<BR>opening and closing of the valve in a perfect world, but not usually<BR>in the car. I took a one day class where they showed us how to see<BR>the opening, closing of an injector with a vertronix scope. But they<BR>were showing us with a dry inector, and the pattern was easy to see. <BR>When we went to go do the same thing on the car,
it just didn't work<BR>that easy. We use a fuel tank pressure sensor...I'll find the part<BR>number tomorrow when I go to work, with a simply 7805 regulator. <BR>This is a map type sensor with a 0-4psi range...not the same as the<BR>one used for measuring engine vaccum. Just an idea.<BR><BR>Marcello<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>> Thanks Will, Tobjorn & Brett for your comments and suggestions<BR>><BR>> I plan to take a look at it again tomorrow or Monday<BR>><BR>> I'll let you guys know what I see<BR>><BR>> TNX & Rgds,<BR>><BR>> RG<BR>> AZ<BR>><BR>> Bret Levandowski <SKISHOP69 at YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>> My Bad!! I got that backwards. I had to go back and remember. You sould<BR>> see a slight DROP in the current. Wow, shouldn't have gone to work today.<BR>> Too much brain fry. Ski<BR>><BR>> WSCowell at aol.com wrote: Well, if I'm right, it won't make a difference<BR>> whether you look at voltage or
current waveform, because they simply tell<BR>> you about the electrical performance of the winding in the injector. What<BR>> you really want to know is a purely mechanical thing, i.e. "Is the<BR>> injector lifting off its seat cleanly when pulsed? What is its spray<BR>> pattern like? Does it deliver fuel at the correct rate?" That sort of<BR>> stuff.<BR>><BR>> What I'm leading up to is that I don't think electrical measurements will<BR>> tell you anything about the important bit inside the injector, the valve<BR>> itself, that lets the fuel through when opened by current flowing through<BR>> the winding.<BR>><BR>> Regards<BR>><BR>> Will<BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> diy_efi mailing list<BR>> diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ---------------------------------<BR>> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib
Jab's 'Second<BR>> Term'_______________________________________________<BR>> diy_efi mailing list<BR>> diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi<BR>><BR>><BR>> ---------------------------------<BR>> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn<BR>> more._______________________________________________<BR>> diy_efi mailing list<BR>> diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi<BR>><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>diy_efi mailing list<BR>diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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