[Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore
David Cooley
n5xmt at bellsouth.net
Tue Feb 22 20:51:24 GMT 2005
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not all lean burn civics use the WB O2.
only the 92-95 1.5L VTEC engines with federal emissions
_____
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Karl Walter
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:52 AM
To: A list for Do-It-Yourself EFI
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore
Dan, Thanks for the succinct description of WB o2 sensor vs. lambda.
Basically for stock applications, never running very rich or lean, a simple
lambda monitor will do for tuning, but when you want to run out of the range
of a standard o2 i.e. lean burn like the Honda these o2 sensors come from,
or rich like a turbo'ed engine or long duration cam'ed engine, the WB is the
only way to measure the mixture, other than power output measurements. A
side note: In aircraft, the engine runs steady state at 85% power or more.
You simply pull the mixture control until the engine slows slightly, and
then richen it up a hair. This would be great in a car, exept were can you
run almost wide open for 20 min at a time, besides a dyno? Too bad there
aren't more dry lakes around...
the Real question... has anybody had luck finding and using a WB sensor from
a lean burn Civic in the wrecking yard?
--Karl
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Nicoson <mailto:A6intruder at adelphia.net>
To: A list for Do-It-Yourself EFI <mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore
Jim,
Steve wants the WB so he can tune more accurately. The WB allows him to
have an accurate AFR anywhere between AFR=10 and AFR=20. The narrow band
are optimized for the AFR=14.7 ratio that is ideal for emissions compliance,
any extrapolation of their response curve beyond that narrow range is
inaccurate. The narrow band 02 is only used by the factory ECU during
closed loop - low power use. During WOT the WB rules because you can adjust
your fuel tables to achieve whatever AFR the engine combo likes.
He's trying to incorporate the NB operation also to let the factory ECU work
normally during low power. Some of the store-bought units do that NB
operation also.
Steve,
Some of the store bought units have really come down in price, I think $350
is the low end.
Another thought, for $6 and some welding you can add a third bung and run
the factory NB in their stock location, put any WB in the third bung and
tune away. That's what I do. I have a DIY-WB permanently installed and let
the factory NB stay in their usual location.
Dan Nicoson
-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On
Behalf Of Jim Butterfield
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 7:47 AM
To: A list for Do-It-Yourself EFI
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore
Pardon me for just jumping in here... whats the problem with NB O2 sensors
and why would you want WB O2's????
steve broski <sjbroski at msn.com> wrote:
i want to replace both NBO2's in my S/C3800 GM with WBO2's. i found the
schematics and info at the WB-DIY site for using the L1H1 UEGOS. i thought
with some additions for another 0-1V out for PCM to control from, it would
work pretty well. however the cost of that sensor is a little. . .steep. the
bosch LSU4 can be had for about $40. much more doable. it seems the above
mentioned control circuit won't work. i can find no sources for specs on
LSU4. anybody have any info that might help? that would be really fantastic.
i have my eye on a sanner/tuner for my car that has 3 additional A/I's(2 for
WB and 1 for whatever i want)so i can do some tuning. thanks for any and all
help. steve
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D843004820-22022005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>not all lean burn civics use the WB =
O2.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D843004820-22022005><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>only the 92-95 1.5L VTEC engines with federal=20
emissions</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN =
class=3D843004820-22022005></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org=20
[mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Karl=20
Walter<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 22, 2005 11:52 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B> A=20
list for Do-It-Yourself EFI<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Diy_efi] wbo2 =
questions=20
galore<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan, Thanks for the succinct =
description of=20
WB o2 sensor vs. lambda. Basically for stock applications, never =
running very=20
rich or lean, a simple lambda monitor will do for tuning, but =
when you=20
want to run out of the range of a standard o2 i.e. lean burn =
like the=20
Honda these o2 sensors come from, or rich like a turbo'ed =
engine or long=20
duration cam'ed engine, the WB is the only way to measure the mixture, =
other=20
than power output measurements. A side note: In aircraft, the =
engine=20
runs steady state at 85% power or more. You simply pull the =
mixture=20
control until the engine slows slightly, and then richen it up a =
hair. =20
This would be great in a car, exept were can you run almost wide open =
for 20=20
min at a time, besides a dyno? Too bad there aren't more dry =
lakes=20
around...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the Real question... has anybody had =
luck finding=20
and using a WB sensor from a lean burn Civic in the wrecking=20
yard?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--Karl</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DA6intruder at adelphia.net=20
href=3D"mailto:A6intruder at adelphia.net">Daniel Nicoson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddiy_efi at diy-efi.org=20
href=3D"mailto:diy_efi at diy-efi.org">A list for Do-It-Yourself =
EFI</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 22, =
2005 6:38=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Diy_efi] wbo2 =
questions=20
galore</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Jim,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Steve wants the WB so he can tune more accurately. =
The WB=20
allows him to have an accurate AFR anywhere between AFR=3D10 and =
AFR=3D20. =20
The narrow band are optimized for the AFR=3D14.7 ratio that is ideal =
for=20
emissions compliance, any extrapolation of their response curve =
beyond that=20
narrow range is inaccurate. The narrow band 02 is only used by =
the=20
factory ECU during closed loop - low power use. During WOT the =
WB=20
rules because you can adjust your fuel tables to achieve whatever =
AFR the=20
engine combo likes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>He's trying to incorporate the NB operation also to =
let the=20
factory ECU work normally during low power. Some of the =
store-bought=20
units do that NB operation also.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Some of the store bought units have really come down in =
price, I=20
think $350 is the low end.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Another thought, for $6 and some welding you can add a =
third bung and=20
run the factory NB in their stock location, put any WB in the third =
bung and=20
tune away. That's what I do. I have a DIY-WB permanently =
installed and let the factory NB stay in their usual=20
location.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D524342814-22022005><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dan Nicoson<BR> </FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org =
[mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Jim Butterfield<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February =
22, 2005=20
7:47 AM<BR><B>To:</B> A list for Do-It-Yourself =
EFI<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
[Diy_efi] wbo2 questions galore<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Pardon me for just jumping in here... whats the problem with =
NB O2=20
sensors and why would you want WB O2's????<BR><BR><B><I>steve =
broski=20
<sjbroski at msn.com></I></B> wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff =
2px solid">i=20
want to replace both NBO2's in my S/C3800 GM with WBO2's. i =
found the=20
<BR>schematics and info at the WB-DIY site for using the L1H1 =
UEGOS. i=20
thought <BR>with some additions for another 0-1V out for PCM to =
control=20
from, it would <BR>work pretty well. however the cost of that =
sensor is=20
a little. . .steep. the <BR>bosch LSU4 can be had for about $40. =
much=20
more doable. it seems the above <BR>mentioned control circuit =
won't=20
work. i can find no sources for specs on <BR>LSU4. anybody have =
any info=20
that might help? that would be really fantastic. <BR>i have my =
eye on a=20
sanner/tuner for my car that has 3 additional A/I's(2 for <BR>WB =
and 1=20
for whatever i want)so i can do some tuning. thanks for any and =
all=20
<BR>help.=20
=
steve<BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>diy_e=
fi=20
mailing=20
=
list<BR>diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/=
diy_efi<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P>
<HR SIZE=3D1>
Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Search presents - <A=20
=
href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D30648/*http://movies.yahoo.com/movie=
s/feature/jibjabinaugural.html">Jib=20
Jab's 'Second Term'</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>diy_efi =
mailing=20
=
list<BR>diy_efi at diy-efi.org<BR>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/=
diy_efi<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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