[Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...

[Jared Ryan]

I am not an expert on anything in this regard, and noted clearly that 
my observations were based on limited experience.  I did not ask to be 
flamed.

I was a member of this list once, a long time ago, and unsubscribed 
because of the heated atmosphere.  I made a simple observation based on 
my own feelings and opinions, and got railed against.  I am now 
unsubscribing for the last time.

I understand why Bruce Plecan is nowhere to be found on these lists 
anymore.

On Jun 8, 2005, at 8:15 PM, Ernest Buckler wrote:

> Top reply:
> OK, let's get this straight: The science behind these plugs is NOT 
> shakey at all, it is perfectly sound: A spark ignites a flame in a 
> small semi-seperate chamber, this flame grows and then shoots out of 
> holes into the main chamber and ignites a very lean mix that could not 
> otherwise be ignited by a single spark.    Honda and many others have 
> built and sold millions of pre-chamber engines.  Whether or not they 
> can improve on the equally excellent combustion science in the most 
> modern engines that achieve clean burn by other means, is another 
> question alltogether.   Don't be bad-mouthing a new?different approach 
> that has thousands of hours behind it, created & tested by intelligent 
> men, just because YOU fail to understand it.  For another example, 
> there's a company in Sand Point, Idaho, that has GLOW PLUGS running in 
> standard engines, getting excellent results that I have seen with my 
> own eyes. They are being fought to the death by Champion, Bosche, NGK, 
> etc. No igniton system, no distributor, just 12v until the engine is 
> warm, turn off power to the plugs, engine continues to run and perform 
> just fine. He refuses to sell to these big mfgrs. because they all 
> make his royalty money dependent on number of plugs sold, and not one 
> of them will guarantee to market his plug; meaning that they merely 
> want to PREVENT them from getting on the market.  He has these plugs 
> running in aircraft (!!!), and I know the pilots, they love them.  JD 
> Simplot (potatos) has a research van with a 351 Ford V8 in it, using 
> these plugs, that runs just fine on 50/50 alcohol/water.  These plugs 
> will fire kerosene, alcohol, diesel, jet fuel, propane, all in the 
> same engine.  The inventor and his team are sincere, honest, 
> hard-working men & women who have put many thousands of hours and 
> their life savings into this, only to be balked at every turn by the 
> big players who control the spark plug industry.  I am also sure they 
> are very extremely depressed that they didn't think to include spark 
> ignition engines in their patents, because the flame pattern looks 
> EXACTLY like that of the Greenfire plugs - the glow-plug design 
> controls TIMING by the size and shape of the internal holes &   
> venturi(s), so yes, that answers a lot of questions several others 
> have asked.  This is not second-hand theorizing, guys; I've seen the 
> demos and know the test drivers and pilots who trust these plugs with 
> their lives.  Proven beyond a doubt, but getting the product to market 
> when powerful forces don't want it on the market, is a very real 
> challenge.  BTW, I never believed any of these "invention suppression" 
> stories either, until I met this group, if that's any comfort to you 
> other doubters out there.
>
> Ernie B.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Ryan" <jryan at caminofx.org>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 2:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...
>
>
>> I agree, but what about on a wet manifold, like a GM TBI?
>>
>> I am about to convert an '84 Chevy El Camino with a 305 and QuadraJet 
>> to TBI, and I am considering testing a spacer that is supposed to 
>> make swirl, to put some objective numbers on it... 1/4-mile ETs, 
>> 60-foot times, etc. I'm an amateur but I'm a natural tinkerer, so I'm 
>> curious.
>>
>> I agree that the swirl would have no effect (and I doubt there would 
>> be any swirl by the time the air reaches the ports) on a multiport 
>> engine but I wonder if it helps any on a TBI engine.  My guess is 
>> that it all depends on the exact engine/manifold setup.
>>
>> I've enjoyed following this discussion, and I agree the "science" 
>> behind these spark plugs looks very shaky.  My understanding (limited 
>> though it is) is that once you start the flame, it spreads, period.  
>> The only engines I know of where there was a big problem lighting off 
>> the mixture was old gasoline engines with very big bores, like used 
>> on Seagrave and LaFrance fire trucks before they switched to Diesel.  
>> I have heard they had two spark plugs per cylinder simply because the 
>> bores were so big, to ensure complete ignition.  Unfortunately I have 
>> not gotten to see such an engine taken apart.
>>
>> Going back into lurk mode, enjoying the discussions. :-)
>>
>>  ---> Jared Ryan <---
>> jryan at caminofx.org | http://www.caminofx.org
>> Yahoo!: gerhardr2001 | ICQ: 8457412
>>
>> On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Daniel R. Nicoson wrote:
>>
>>> I put this device up there with the intake swirl plates (mount right 
>>> after
>>> the throttle body) that are supposed to induce a "vortex" to intake 
>>> air on
>>> an EFI engine.  "This results in more complete mixture 
>>> distribution". Those
>>> damn things ignore the fact that there is NO mixture to be 
>>> distributed until
>>> the intake port where the fuel injector is squirting fuel!