[Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...

Thu Jun 9 02:34:56 UTC 2005

hi, who  cares  on the scientific reasoning  how it works ???? i had things 
work that defies  logic reasoning....

i dont care if its a peice of cheese connected up to a spark plug lead and 
pushed into the spark plug hole,  as long as it    DOES what it says  i`ll 
be happy.......

mark k

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jared Ryan" <jryan at caminofx.org>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...

>I am not an expert on anything in this regard, and noted clearly that my 
>observations were based on limited experience.  I did not ask to be flamed.
>
> I was a member of this list once, a long time ago, and unsubscribed 
> because of the heated atmosphere.  I made a simple observation based on my 
> own feelings and opinions, and got railed against.  I am now unsubscribing 
> for the last time.
>
> I understand why Bruce Plecan is nowhere to be found on these lists 
> anymore.
>
> On Jun 8, 2005, at 8:15 PM, Ernest Buckler wrote:
>
>> Top reply:
>> OK, let's get this straight: The science behind these plugs is NOT shakey 
>> at all, it is perfectly sound: A spark ignites a flame in a small 
>> semi-seperate chamber, this flame grows and then shoots out of holes into 
>> the main chamber and ignites a very lean mix that could not otherwise be 
>> ignited by a single spark.    Honda and many others have built and sold 
>> millions of pre-chamber engines.  Whether or not they can improve on the 
>> equally excellent combustion science in the most modern engines that 
>> achieve clean burn by other means, is another question alltogether. 
>> Don't be bad-mouthing a new?different approach that has thousands of 
>> hours behind it, created & tested by intelligent men, just because YOU 
>> fail to understand it.  For another example, there's a company in Sand 
>> Point, Idaho, that has GLOW PLUGS running in standard engines, getting 
>> excellent results that I have seen with my own eyes. They are being 
>> fought to the death by Champion, Bosche, NGK, etc. No igniton system, no 
>> distributor, just 12v until the engine is warm, turn off power to the 
>> plugs, engine continues to run and perform just fine. He refuses to sell 
>> to these big mfgrs. because they all make his royalty money dependent on 
>> number of plugs sold, and not one of them will guarantee to market his 
>> plug; meaning that they merely want to PREVENT them from getting on the 
>> market.  He has these plugs running in aircraft (!!!), and I know the 
>> pilots, they love them.  JD Simplot (potatos) has a research van with a 
>> 351 Ford V8 in it, using these plugs, that runs just fine on 50/50 
>> alcohol/water.  These plugs will fire kerosene, alcohol, diesel, jet 
>> fuel, propane, all in the same engine.  The inventor and his team are 
>> sincere, honest, hard-working men & women who have put many thousands of 
>> hours and their life savings into this, only to be balked at every turn 
>> by the big players who control the spark plug industry.  I am also sure 
>> they are very extremely depressed that they didn't think to include spark 
>> ignition engines in their patents, because the flame pattern looks 
>> EXACTLY like that of the Greenfire plugs - the glow-plug design controls 
>> TIMING by the size and shape of the internal holes &   venturi(s), so 
>> yes, that answers a lot of questions several others have asked.  This is 
>> not second-hand theorizing, guys; I've seen the demos and know the test 
>> drivers and pilots who trust these plugs with their lives.  Proven beyond 
>> a doubt, but getting the product to market when powerful forces don't 
>> want it on the market, is a very real challenge.  BTW, I never believed 
>> any of these "invention suppression" stories either, until I met this 
>> group, if that's any comfort to you other doubters out there.
>>
>> Ernie B.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Ryan" <jryan at caminofx.org>
>> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 2:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...
>>
>>
>>> I agree, but what about on a wet manifold, like a GM TBI?
>>>
>>> I am about to convert an '84 Chevy El Camino with a 305 and QuadraJet to 
>>> TBI, and I am considering testing a spacer that is supposed to make 
>>> swirl, to put some objective numbers on it... 1/4-mile ETs, 60-foot 
>>> times, etc. I'm an amateur but I'm a natural tinkerer, so I'm curious.
>>>
>>> I agree that the swirl would have no effect (and I doubt there would be 
>>> any swirl by the time the air reaches the ports) on a multiport engine 
>>> but I wonder if it helps any on a TBI engine.  My guess is that it all 
>>> depends on the exact engine/manifold setup.
>>>
>>> I've enjoyed following this discussion, and I agree the "science" behind 
>>> these spark plugs looks very shaky.  My understanding (limited though it 
>>> is) is that once you start the flame, it spreads, period.  The only 
>>> engines I know of where there was a big problem lighting off the mixture 
>>> was old gasoline engines with very big bores, like used on Seagrave and 
>>> LaFrance fire trucks before they switched to Diesel.  I have heard they 
>>> had two spark plugs per cylinder simply because the bores were so big, 
>>> to ensure complete ignition.  Unfortunately I have not gotten to see 
>>> such an engine taken apart.
>>>
>>> Going back into lurk mode, enjoying the discussions. :-)
>>>
>>>  ---> Jared Ryan <---
>>> jryan at caminofx.org | http://www.caminofx.org
>>> Yahoo!: gerhardr2001 | ICQ: 8457412
>>>
>>> On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Daniel R. Nicoson wrote:
>>>
>>>> I put this device up there with the intake swirl plates (mount right 
>>>> after
>>>> the throttle body) that are supposed to induce a "vortex" to intake air 
>>>> on
>>>> an EFI engine.  "This results in more complete mixture distribution". 
>>>> Those
>>>> damn things ignore the fact that there is NO mixture to be distributed 
>>>> until
>>>> the intake port where the fuel injector is squirting fuel!
>
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