[Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs..., hydraulics

Fri Jun 24 12:02:11 UTC 2005

At 06:27 AM 25/06/05, you wrote:
>Mike, I'd sure like to read that explanation when you have time to type it
>up.  Thanks for clearing up my wrong thinking in relating gases to
>hydraulics.  They are not the same and I hadn't had my morning coffee yet
>when I wrote that.

No problem <hrrrrmmm> - I thought you might have been Adam Wade
in disguise there for a moment <chuckle>...

Actually, you've raised an interesting point which hadn't occurred to me since
your post, Adam may think the gas in the plug region is incompressible
or he may have cast the umbrella of hydraulics over a fluid dynamics gas
compressibility issue hence his unwillingness to shift position <sigh>

We'll see if he wakes up to respond to my most recent post ;-)

Middle of intense feasibility study at moment, put basic thought experiment
past my eldest and he made some suggestions, after w/end I think has I
have so much work on,

Thanks Vic, 

Rgds

Mike

>Vic
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Mike" <niche at iinet.net.au>
>To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:19 AM
>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs..., hydraulics
>
>
>> At 06:57 AM 24/06/05, you wrote:
>> >Mike, I had always believed that in hydraulics the pressure was equal in
>all
>> >areas so how could there be flow?
>>
>> We're not talking hydraulics, we are not talking incompressible fluids,
>> the gases in the combustion chamber are compressible. Though even in
>> hydraulics whenever there is a pressure gradient - even a small one in
>> an incompressible fluid, there is more than enough potential for flow.
>>
>> >The only place I can see flow occuring is near the valves where the
>mixture
>> >enters and exits.
>>
>> Is this comment based on your view we were talking hydraulics ?
>>
>> If there were only flow near the valves, how would the center of the
>combustion
>> chamber provide useful gas mixture for combustion or even have it
>exhausted ?
>>
>> (rhetorical question ;)
>>
>> I've come up with a thought experiment which should pretty well illustrate
>> what I perceive is happening with the greenfire plugs and hopefully will
>make
>> it clear for Adam Wade how it can work, it was actualyl easier than I
>thought,
>> provided he isnt just trolling and pretending not to understand that is,
>but have
>> heaps of other emails to wade through first ;-)
>>
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Vic
>> >----- Original Message ----- 
>> >From: "Mike" <niche at iinet.net.au>
>> >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>> >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:33 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...
>> >
>> >
>> >> At 05:46 PM 22/06/05, you wrote:
>> >> >Round and round in circles, changing statements at
>> >> >every turn, and refusing to provide any evidence
>> >> >whatsoever.
>> >>
>> >> Adam,
>> >>
>> >> What particular statement have I changed 'at every turn',
>> >> please paste the most glaring and obvious example so
>> >> its crystal where you think my position has changed  ?
>> >>
>> >> And, do you think I really need to provide evidence there
>> >> are pressure changes and this cant be appreciated by inspection ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Since you ask me for evidence, can you provide evidence the
>> >> mechanism for flow is only diffusion  (rhetorical question ;)  ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >A waste of my (and everyone else's) time.
>> >>
>> >> Not at all, I'm discovering what appears to be some sort
>> >> of mental block you have regarding pressure causing flow...
>> >>
>> >> I had this sort of thing arise a couple of times during my
>> >> teaching career from 79 to 82 and it impressed on me the
>> >> huge difference there is in static vs dynamic abstractions
>> >> people entertain when learning something new. So it would
>> >> be helpful for me to add to my understanding why you hold
>> >> your position so tenaciously ;-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >When you're ready to come up with evidence that
>> >> >supports your theory, which you claim is so basic
>> >> >everyone knows it (and which you should be able to
>> >> >show myriad examples of in mere seconds online), I'll
>> >> >give it a whirl.  Until then, good night.  :)
>> >>
>> >> Are you saying no one will accept pressure gives rise
>> >> to flow ?
>> >>
>> >> It must be obvious to everyone that neither you or I are
>> >> (right now) unlikely in a position to make laboratory measurements.
>> >>
>> >> The rationale and dialectic process that might converge to
>> >> something useful raises these questions:-
>> >>
>> >> a.      Do you believe there is pressure change across
>> >>         the input of the plug ?
>> >>
>> >>         simple yes or no will suffice here.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> b.      If you believe there is no pressure change across the
>> >>         plug can you articulate why you believe this ?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> c.      If however, you believe there is a pressure change
>> >>         then can you articulate why this would not result in flow ?
>> >>
>> >> .
>> >>
>> >> Bill Washington did an admirable job of an even handed attempt
>> >> to illustrate the issue of pressure for you, yet your response isnt
>> >> helpful, not logical and a bit of slap in his face, I really suggest
>> >> you have another look at his post. In the meantime I'll construct
>> >> a thought experiment, good exercise, I guess as I havent done
>> >> this for 20 years since I last had students at uni ~`:o)
>> >>
>> >> Dont hold your breath though, I'm on 9 other tech groups and
>> >> emails come in thick and fast...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards from
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mike Massen
>> >> Perth, Western Australia
>> >> VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
>> >> http://niche.iinet.net.au
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> Regards from
>>
>>
>> Mike Massen
>> Perth, Western Australia
>> VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
>> http://niche.iinet.net.au
>>
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Regards from

Mike Massen
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
http://niche.iinet.net.au