[Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs..., hydraulics

Sat Jun 25 19:05:51 UTC 2005

Thanks Mike.  Looking forward to your reply after the weekend.

Have a good one.

Vic
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike" <niche at iinet.net.au>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs..., hydraulics

> At 06:27 AM 25/06/05, you wrote:
> >Mike, I'd sure like to read that explanation when you have time to type
it
> >up.  Thanks for clearing up my wrong thinking in relating gases to
> >hydraulics.  They are not the same and I hadn't had my morning coffee yet
> >when I wrote that.
>
> No problem <hrrrrmmm> - I thought you might have been Adam Wade
> in disguise there for a moment <chuckle>...
>
> Actually, you've raised an interesting point which hadn't occurred to me
since
> your post, Adam may think the gas in the plug region is incompressible
> or he may have cast the umbrella of hydraulics over a fluid dynamics gas
> compressibility issue hence his unwillingness to shift position <sigh>
>
> We'll see if he wakes up to respond to my most recent post ;-)
>
> Middle of intense feasibility study at moment, put basic thought
experiment
> past my eldest and he made some suggestions, after w/end I think has I
> have so much work on,
>
> Thanks Vic,
>
> Rgds
>
> Mike
>
>
> >Vic
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Mike" <niche at iinet.net.au>
> >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 4:19 AM
> >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs..., hydraulics
> >
> >
> >> At 06:57 AM 24/06/05, you wrote:
> >> >Mike, I had always believed that in hydraulics the pressure was equal
in
> >all
> >> >areas so how could there be flow?
> >>
> >> We're not talking hydraulics, we are not talking incompressible fluids,
> >> the gases in the combustion chamber are compressible. Though even in
> >> hydraulics whenever there is a pressure gradient - even a small one in
> >> an incompressible fluid, there is more than enough potential for flow.
> >>
> >> >The only place I can see flow occuring is near the valves where the
> >mixture
> >> >enters and exits.
> >>
> >> Is this comment based on your view we were talking hydraulics ?
> >>
> >> If there were only flow near the valves, how would the center of the
> >combustion
> >> chamber provide useful gas mixture for combustion or even have it
> >exhausted ?
> >>
> >> (rhetorical question ;)
> >>
> >> I've come up with a thought experiment which should pretty well
illustrate
> >> what I perceive is happening with the greenfire plugs and hopefully
will
> >make
> >> it clear for Adam Wade how it can work, it was actualyl easier than I
> >thought,
> >> provided he isnt just trolling and pretending not to understand that
is,
> >but have
> >> heaps of other emails to wade through first ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >> cheers
> >>
> >> mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Vic
> >> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >> >From: "Mike" <niche at iinet.net.au>
> >> >To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> >> >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:33 AM
> >> >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Link for greenfire spark plugs...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> At 05:46 PM 22/06/05, you wrote:
> >> >> >Round and round in circles, changing statements at
> >> >> >every turn, and refusing to provide any evidence
> >> >> >whatsoever.
> >> >>
> >> >> Adam,
> >> >>
> >> >> What particular statement have I changed 'at every turn',
> >> >> please paste the most glaring and obvious example so
> >> >> its crystal where you think my position has changed  ?
> >> >>
> >> >> And, do you think I really need to provide evidence there
> >> >> are pressure changes and this cant be appreciated by inspection ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Since you ask me for evidence, can you provide evidence the
> >> >> mechanism for flow is only diffusion  (rhetorical question ;)  ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >A waste of my (and everyone else's) time.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not at all, I'm discovering what appears to be some sort
> >> >> of mental block you have regarding pressure causing flow...
> >> >>
> >> >> I had this sort of thing arise a couple of times during my
> >> >> teaching career from 79 to 82 and it impressed on me the
> >> >> huge difference there is in static vs dynamic abstractions
> >> >> people entertain when learning something new. So it would
> >> >> be helpful for me to add to my understanding why you hold
> >> >> your position so tenaciously ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >When you're ready to come up with evidence that
> >> >> >supports your theory, which you claim is so basic
> >> >> >everyone knows it (and which you should be able to
> >> >> >show myriad examples of in mere seconds online), I'll
> >> >> >give it a whirl.  Until then, good night.  :)
> >> >>
> >> >> Are you saying no one will accept pressure gives rise
> >> >> to flow ?
> >> >>
> >> >> It must be obvious to everyone that neither you or I are
> >> >> (right now) unlikely in a position to make laboratory measurements.
> >> >>
> >> >> The rationale and dialectic process that might converge to
> >> >> something useful raises these questions:-
> >> >>
> >> >> a.      Do you believe there is pressure change across
> >> >>         the input of the plug ?
> >> >>
> >> >>         simple yes or no will suffice here.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> b.      If you believe there is no pressure change across the
> >> >>         plug can you articulate why you believe this ?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> c.      If however, you believe there is a pressure change
> >> >>         then can you articulate why this would not result in flow ?
> >> >>
> >> >> .
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill Washington did an admirable job of an even handed attempt
> >> >> to illustrate the issue of pressure for you, yet your response isnt
> >> >> helpful, not logical and a bit of slap in his face, I really suggest
> >> >> you have another look at his post. In the meantime I'll construct
> >> >> a thought experiment, good exercise, I guess as I havent done
> >> >> this for 20 years since I last had students at uni ~`:o)
> >> >>
> >> >> Dont hold your breath though, I'm on 9 other tech groups and
> >> >> emails come in thick and fast...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards from
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Mike Massen
> >> >> Perth, Western Australia
> >> >> VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
> >> >> http://niche.iinet.net.au
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Diy_efi mailing list
> >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> >> >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> >> >
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> >>
> >> Regards from
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Massen
> >> Perth, Western Australia
> >> VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
> >> http://niche.iinet.net.au
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
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>
> Regards from
>
>
> Mike Massen
> Perth, Western Australia
> VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
> http://niche.iinet.net.au
>
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