[Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects

Mon Nov 5 12:15:13 UTC 2012

Yes, that's me! Fiji, eh, interesting! :-)  The FreeEMS project will always
have a strong Kiwi feel to it, but it's truly a global affair now, with dev
occurring or occurred in at least 8 countries so far, and 14+ very
different vehicles running/run in 5 countries.

Another thing you could play with at the lower end of the scale is SECU-3,
a Russian project with maybe 50 users and a lead dev that speaks/writes
English reasonably well (rare there it seems). Links for that:

http://forum.diyefi.org/viewforum.php?f=47 forum section
http://forum.diyefi.org/viewforum.php?f=51 English section
http://secu-3.org/?lang=en New site without any English content, old one
was fairly complete...

I don't have time to explain MCU choice in detail, but the decision was
made nearly 5 years ago, before MS3 was publicly mentioned for the first
time, and came down to dev tool availability, peripherals, pin count, power
and temperature ratings, among other things. Other choices that appear
attractive aren't as good as they seem in many cases, even 5 years on.

Fred.

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:11 AM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, thanks for the link not that I might be able understand much of it.
> Should have never left SW back in tech school. I'm a RF guy (mobile comms)
> by the way. I was reading through some sites and came across a "Fred Cooke"
> at diyefi.org, so I'm assuming its you. Its so great to see a good
> quality, thorough project NZ. I live in Fiji b.t.w. Can you say why you
> chose the freescale part?
>
> Thanks and regards.
> Nikhil
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Fred Cooke <fred.cooke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Something simple to get started on, that Delco reminded me of, is
>> Jason Roughley's PIS software, check it out here:
>>
>> https://github.com/Torture/PIS
>>
>> It's very basic and PW driven, but PW is his thing, he's not a VE fan :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Fred.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:47 PM, Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net> wrote:
>> > Yes,  there's lots of info out there.  You will find more interesting
>> > reading at http://www.sae.org/.
>> >
>> > Slight subject change - I brought home a new(er) dd yesterday,  a 2010
>> > Camaro SS.  Sweet ride,  bad news is it's got a Bosch ecu!
>> >
>> > Thanks for the e-book link.
>> >
>> > Bill
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/1/2012 6:03 PM, xyz Q wrote:
>> >
>> > Driving a vehicle that would have your own designed and built ecu could
>> feel
>> > like a 'mystical' experience, some what.
>> >
>> > We still run right, considering it was a major source of transportation
>> a
>> > 100+ years ago now its mostly for recreational.
>> >
>> > I just think there's so little info pertaining to ecu controls even
>> basic
>> > ones that probably its worth looking into.
>> >
>> > On Nov 2, 2012 8:40 AM, "David Allen" <davida1 at hiwaay.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I always like microcontroller projects, have built some interesting
>> >> things, too. I was considering trying to build an ECU, but then I
>> realized
>> >> something.  For me; with my project goals, GM had already engineered
>> the
>> >> perfect ECU. It's so good that millions of them are out there on the
>> road
>> >> today. Every parameter is configurable and the hardware is
>> bulletproof. So I
>> >> went with a Delco 1227730 ECU, and focused my microcontroller projects
>> on
>> >> other areas.  I made projects for where there aren't off-the-shelf,
>> highly
>> >> cost-effective solutions already available.  I've built auto headlights
>> >> controller, air-levelling suspension controllers, parts-washer
>> controller,
>> >> heat pump controller, speedometer calibration modules, and other odds
>> and
>> >> ends. But the Delco ECU is just too cheap, available, rugged, and just
>> plain
>> >> good at what it does to re-invent the wheel for an engine ECU. The
>> learning
>> >> curve was a little steep learning the tuning, because there is SO MUCH
>> in
>> >> the ECM program. But it was worth it in the end, because it's so
>> >> configurable.
>> >>
>> >> This is just my OPINION and I hope you guys take it as that. Not
>> meaning
>> >> to discourage anyone. I wanted to tell about the end result of when I
>> went
>> >> down the same path and the final decision I came to.
>> >>
>> >> Respectfully,
>> >> David
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: xyz Q
>> >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 3:26 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects
>> >>
>> >> All this is ok. But I'm thinking in order to get started, wouldn't be
>> be
>> >> good if some experts could hold some basic ruts on this forum. Let's
>> see
>> >> what some have to say, mainly very specific info eg., rpm counting,
>> etc,
>> >> etc... But I know time would be a big issue for many.
>> >>
>> >> I downloaded some notes from Freescale on 68HC08 to introduce me to
>> >> Motorola MCUs. My only experience is with 80x86 MPU from back in tech
>> >> school.
>> >>
>> >> Anyways, here's an offtopic link that some might find useful. It's got
>> >> premium ebooks on just about every subject for free.
>> >>
>> >> www.freebookspot.es
>> >>
>> >> On Nov 1, 2012 1:06 PM, "Alan To" <toalan at 14point7.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> For me 5v operation is a must have so to be able to work with the
>> widest
>> >>> range of sensors possible without additional burden of resistor
>> dividers.
>> >>> The MPC555x is a $30 uC, you are doing some high end stuff, for high
>> end
>> >>> stuff priorities are different, if you need to work with 5v sensors
>> the cost
>> >>> of 0.1% or better tolerance resistors or an external ADC is probably
>> not an
>> >>> issue. Originally we were talking about uCs in the same league as the
>> 8 bit
>> >>> PICs, AVRs, and perhaps as high as ARM Cortex M3/M4.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards
>> >>>
>> >>> Alan To
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 10/31/2012 5:41 AM, Bill Shaw wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> The operating voltage is not a significant decision factor when
>> choosing
>> >>> an automotive microprocessor.  The MPC5554 we are using has a 1.3
>> volt core
>> >>> and 3.3 volt I/O.  It is an awesome  automotive microprocessor,  but
>> the
>> >>> array of peripherals and registers would be a bit daunting for the
>> >>> uninitiated.
>> >>>
>> >>> Best,
>> >>>
>> >>> Bill
>> >>>
>> >>> On 10/31/2012 12:16 AM, Alan To wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> It is a 3.3v chip and you really want 5v operation for automotive. The
>> >>> new Arduino Due will be a trainwreck, an epic one.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 10/30/2012 6:47 PM, xyz Q wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> There's an ARM based Arduino. What would you say about that for a
>> choice?
>> >>>
>> >>> On Oct 31, 2012 1:22 PM, "Avery Nisbet" <anisbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 1.  Most of the hack a day projects are by IT/computer sci guys that
>> >>>> look down on getting their hands dirty with cars. If you look deeply
>> >>>> at some of the projects they will have really shoty electrical
>> >>>> engineering in them. Some of them are pure hacks and would not work
>> in
>> >>>> a production sense.  Some are pretty decent.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 2. Pics from an architecture point of view kinda suck. They were not
>> >>>> designed for use with stack based compilers(One working register).
>> >>>> The Motorola stuff was some of the 1st used in the automotive space.
>> >>>> The architecture lends itself to use with a compiler.  They are
>> >>>> designed for the harsher automotive environment.  Some will say they
>> >>>> have nicer hardware peripherals.  I would say some of the peripherals
>> >>>> were designed specifically for the automotive market. There is also a
>> >>>> pretty big code base to look at.  Oh and mostly anyone who went to
>> >>>> school for software or hardware who is older than say 30 was forced
>> to
>> >>>> learn 6800(68HC11) or 68000 assembly language.  This usually involved
>> >>>> getting ahold of the purple data books motorola gave away for free
>> >>>> that were well enough written so you could get your class work or
>> real
>> >>>> work done. I probably have 2 or 3 copies of the 68HC11 books laying
>> >>>> around somewhere. This being said there are many other options today
>> >>>> and I would look to ARM or AVR before I looked at PIC.  ARM is
>> already
>> >>>> dominating the cheap 32bit market and is pretty easy to pick up. This
>> >>>> will help in the job search later. AVR's are pretty good for the 8bit
>> >>>> scene.  GCC supports them and ATMEL makes some automotive environment
>> >>>> parts.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 3.  Go get yourself an Arduino(or other uC of choice), BIP373(OR GM
>> >>>> ignition module) and some optoisolators.  Then build a distributor
>> >>>> and/or crank trigger based ignition system. Then try turning that
>> into
>> >>>> a full engine management solution using the peak and hold add in
>> board
>> >>>> by Jbperf. Start researching the mega squirt schematics at the timing
>> >>>> input(tach) and the ignition output. Build those circuite on a bread
>> >>>> board and test on a bench. Then move them on to your test engine. It
>> >>>> could be a lawn mower engine or a V8 monster. Read up on timing
>> >>>> advance and program the Arduino to do a simple RPM only based timing
>> >>>> curve.  Then add a MAP and/or TPS sensors and add load as a factor of
>> >>>> your timing curve.  Then engine temp to add some cold start
>> advantages
>> >>>> and you have all the sensors needed to do open loop EFI.  After
>> adding
>> >>>> injectors you could add a wide band O2 sensor such as the LC-1 from
>> >>>> innovative motor sports or just a heated narrow band for cruze.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -Avery
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:13 PM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> > Hi, I've been on the list for some time, on and off mainly reading
>> >>>> > bits,
>> >>>> > trying to find some interesting ideas. Unfortunately I was 10 years
>> >>>> > too
>> >>>> > late, when this forum had been in its prime.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > So here are my first set of questions that I hope on getting some
>> >>>> > answers,
>> >>>> > hopefully.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 1. Why are there so little auto related uc based projects and ideas
>> >>>> > out
>> >>>> > there on the net? Look at hackaday.com, for example. Many
>> projects,
>> >>>> > talented
>> >>>> > people but all they do is prove a point that some thing can be
>> done.
>> >>>> > But
>> >>>> > guess what hardly something is really useful. I may have missed
>> some
>> >>>> > good
>> >>>> > worth while so please put them here if you know.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 2. If PICs are so popular, why are Motorola MCUs popular with auto
>> >>>> > projects?
>> >>>> > In terms of features aren't they on the same "level"?
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > 3. The way I see to learn microcontroller based EMS or ignition is
>> to
>> >>>> > look
>> >>>> > at it piece by piece. Megasquirt is great but it's hard to learn a
>> >>>> > complete
>> >>>> > system. Aren't there any web sites (I've seen DIYEFI) that have
>> info
>> >>>> > on say
>> >>>> > ignition control, RPM handling with an MCU or other basic control
>> >>>> > concepts
>> >>>> > that can form the basis for EMS/Ign. related projects. I'd like to
>> >>>> > learn the
>> >>>> > basics and if there are specific approaches to this, I'd like to
>> hear
>> >>>> > your
>> >>>> > side of the story. It would be helpful.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Thanks and regards to all on the forum. Some projects here are
>> really
>> >>>> > nice
>> >>>> > and inspiring.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Nik.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
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