[Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects

Tue Nov 6 00:11:33 UTC 2012

Thanks for the links. Regarding the part I only asked because it seemed
expensive for diy/hobby. Regardless, it's a good one.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Fred Cooke <fred.cooke at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, that's me! Fiji, eh, interesting! :-)  The FreeEMS project will
> always have a strong Kiwi feel to it, but it's truly a global affair now,
> with dev occurring or occurred in at least 8 countries so far, and 14+ very
> different vehicles running/run in 5 countries.
>
> Another thing you could play with at the lower end of the scale is SECU-3,
> a Russian project with maybe 50 users and a lead dev that speaks/writes
> English reasonably well (rare there it seems). Links for that:
>
> http://forum.diyefi.org/viewforum.php?f=47 forum section
> http://forum.diyefi.org/viewforum.php?f=51 English section
> http://secu-3.org/?lang=en New site without any English content, old one
> was fairly complete...
>
> I don't have time to explain MCU choice in detail, but the decision was
> made nearly 5 years ago, before MS3 was publicly mentioned for the first
> time, and came down to dev tool availability, peripherals, pin count, power
> and temperature ratings, among other things. Other choices that appear
> attractive aren't as good as they seem in many cases, even 5 years on.
>
> Fred.
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:11 AM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, thanks for the link not that I might be able understand much of it.
>> Should have never left SW back in tech school. I'm a RF guy (mobile comms)
>> by the way. I was reading through some sites and came across a "Fred Cooke"
>> at diyefi.org, so I'm assuming its you. Its so great to see a good
>> quality, thorough project NZ. I live in Fiji b.t.w. Can you say why you
>> chose the freescale part?
>>
>> Thanks and regards.
>> Nikhil
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Fred Cooke <fred.cooke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Something simple to get started on, that Delco reminded me of, is
>>> Jason Roughley's PIS software, check it out here:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/Torture/PIS
>>>
>>> It's very basic and PW driven, but PW is his thing, he's not a VE fan :-)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Fred.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:47 PM, Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> > Yes,  there's lots of info out there.  You will find more interesting
>>> > reading at http://www.sae.org/.
>>> >
>>> > Slight subject change - I brought home a new(er) dd yesterday,  a 2010
>>> > Camaro SS.  Sweet ride,  bad news is it's got a Bosch ecu!
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for the e-book link.
>>> >
>>> > Bill
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 11/1/2012 6:03 PM, xyz Q wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Driving a vehicle that would have your own designed and built ecu
>>> could feel
>>> > like a 'mystical' experience, some what.
>>> >
>>> > We still run right, considering it was a major source of
>>> transportation a
>>> > 100+ years ago now its mostly for recreational.
>>> >
>>> > I just think there's so little info pertaining to ecu controls even
>>> basic
>>> > ones that probably its worth looking into.
>>> >
>>> > On Nov 2, 2012 8:40 AM, "David Allen" <davida1 at hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I always like microcontroller projects, have built some interesting
>>> >> things, too. I was considering trying to build an ECU, but then I
>>> realized
>>> >> something.  For me; with my project goals, GM had already engineered
>>> the
>>> >> perfect ECU. It's so good that millions of them are out there on the
>>> road
>>> >> today. Every parameter is configurable and the hardware is
>>> bulletproof. So I
>>> >> went with a Delco 1227730 ECU, and focused my microcontroller
>>> projects on
>>> >> other areas.  I made projects for where there aren't off-the-shelf,
>>> highly
>>> >> cost-effective solutions already available.  I've built auto
>>> headlights
>>> >> controller, air-levelling suspension controllers, parts-washer
>>> controller,
>>> >> heat pump controller, speedometer calibration modules, and other odds
>>> and
>>> >> ends. But the Delco ECU is just too cheap, available, rugged, and
>>> just plain
>>> >> good at what it does to re-invent the wheel for an engine ECU. The
>>> learning
>>> >> curve was a little steep learning the tuning, because there is SO
>>> MUCH in
>>> >> the ECM program. But it was worth it in the end, because it's so
>>> >> configurable.
>>> >>
>>> >> This is just my OPINION and I hope you guys take it as that. Not
>>> meaning
>>> >> to discourage anyone. I wanted to tell about the end result of when I
>>> went
>>> >> down the same path and the final decision I came to.
>>> >>
>>> >> Respectfully,
>>> >> David
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: xyz Q
>>> >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 3:26 PM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects
>>> >>
>>> >> All this is ok. But I'm thinking in order to get started, wouldn't be
>>> be
>>> >> good if some experts could hold some basic ruts on this forum. Let's
>>> see
>>> >> what some have to say, mainly very specific info eg., rpm counting,
>>> etc,
>>> >> etc... But I know time would be a big issue for many.
>>> >>
>>> >> I downloaded some notes from Freescale on 68HC08 to introduce me to
>>> >> Motorola MCUs. My only experience is with 80x86 MPU from back in tech
>>> >> school.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyways, here's an offtopic link that some might find useful. It's got
>>> >> premium ebooks on just about every subject for free.
>>> >>
>>> >> www.freebookspot.es
>>> >>
>>> >> On Nov 1, 2012 1:06 PM, "Alan To" <toalan at 14point7.com> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> For me 5v operation is a must have so to be able to work with the
>>> widest
>>> >>> range of sensors possible without additional burden of resistor
>>> dividers.
>>> >>> The MPC555x is a $30 uC, you are doing some high end stuff, for high
>>> end
>>> >>> stuff priorities are different, if you need to work with 5v sensors
>>> the cost
>>> >>> of 0.1% or better tolerance resistors or an external ADC is probably
>>> not an
>>> >>> issue. Originally we were talking about uCs in the same league as
>>> the 8 bit
>>> >>> PICs, AVRs, and perhaps as high as ARM Cortex M3/M4.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Regards
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Alan To
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 10/31/2012 5:41 AM, Bill Shaw wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The operating voltage is not a significant decision factor when
>>> choosing
>>> >>> an automotive microprocessor.  The MPC5554 we are using has a 1.3
>>> volt core
>>> >>> and 3.3 volt I/O.  It is an awesome  automotive microprocessor,  but
>>> the
>>> >>> array of peripherals and registers would be a bit daunting for the
>>> >>> uninitiated.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Best,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Bill
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 10/31/2012 12:16 AM, Alan To wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> It is a 3.3v chip and you really want 5v operation for automotive.
>>> The
>>> >>> new Arduino Due will be a trainwreck, an epic one.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 10/30/2012 6:47 PM, xyz Q wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> There's an ARM based Arduino. What would you say about that for a
>>> choice?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Oct 31, 2012 1:22 PM, "Avery Nisbet" <anisbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> 1.  Most of the hack a day projects are by IT/computer sci guys that
>>> >>>> look down on getting their hands dirty with cars. If you look deeply
>>> >>>> at some of the projects they will have really shoty electrical
>>> >>>> engineering in them. Some of them are pure hacks and would not work
>>> in
>>> >>>> a production sense.  Some are pretty decent.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> 2. Pics from an architecture point of view kinda suck. They were not
>>> >>>> designed for use with stack based compilers(One working register).
>>> >>>> The Motorola stuff was some of the 1st used in the automotive space.
>>> >>>> The architecture lends itself to use with a compiler.  They are
>>> >>>> designed for the harsher automotive environment.  Some will say they
>>> >>>> have nicer hardware peripherals.  I would say some of the
>>> peripherals
>>> >>>> were designed specifically for the automotive market. There is also
>>> a
>>> >>>> pretty big code base to look at.  Oh and mostly anyone who went to
>>> >>>> school for software or hardware who is older than say 30 was forced
>>> to
>>> >>>> learn 6800(68HC11) or 68000 assembly language.  This usually
>>> involved
>>> >>>> getting ahold of the purple data books motorola gave away for free
>>> >>>> that were well enough written so you could get your class work or
>>> real
>>> >>>> work done. I probably have 2 or 3 copies of the 68HC11 books laying
>>> >>>> around somewhere. This being said there are many other options today
>>> >>>> and I would look to ARM or AVR before I looked at PIC.  ARM is
>>> already
>>> >>>> dominating the cheap 32bit market and is pretty easy to pick up.
>>> This
>>> >>>> will help in the job search later. AVR's are pretty good for the
>>> 8bit
>>> >>>> scene.  GCC supports them and ATMEL makes some automotive
>>> environment
>>> >>>> parts.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> 3.  Go get yourself an Arduino(or other uC of choice), BIP373(OR GM
>>> >>>> ignition module) and some optoisolators.  Then build a distributor
>>> >>>> and/or crank trigger based ignition system. Then try turning that
>>> into
>>> >>>> a full engine management solution using the peak and hold add in
>>> board
>>> >>>> by Jbperf. Start researching the mega squirt schematics at the
>>> timing
>>> >>>> input(tach) and the ignition output. Build those circuite on a bread
>>> >>>> board and test on a bench. Then move them on to your test engine. It
>>> >>>> could be a lawn mower engine or a V8 monster. Read up on timing
>>> >>>> advance and program the Arduino to do a simple RPM only based timing
>>> >>>> curve.  Then add a MAP and/or TPS sensors and add load as a factor
>>> of
>>> >>>> your timing curve.  Then engine temp to add some cold start
>>> advantages
>>> >>>> and you have all the sensors needed to do open loop EFI.  After
>>> adding
>>> >>>> injectors you could add a wide band O2 sensor such as the LC-1 from
>>> >>>> innovative motor sports or just a heated narrow band for cruze.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -Avery
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:13 PM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>>> > Hi, I've been on the list for some time, on and off mainly reading
>>> >>>> > bits,
>>> >>>> > trying to find some interesting ideas. Unfortunately I was 10
>>> years
>>> >>>> > too
>>> >>>> > late, when this forum had been in its prime.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > So here are my first set of questions that I hope on getting some
>>> >>>> > answers,
>>> >>>> > hopefully.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > 1. Why are there so little auto related uc based projects and
>>> ideas
>>> >>>> > out
>>> >>>> > there on the net? Look at hackaday.com, for example. Many
>>> projects,
>>> >>>> > talented
>>> >>>> > people but all they do is prove a point that some thing can be
>>> done.
>>> >>>> > But
>>> >>>> > guess what hardly something is really useful. I may have missed
>>> some
>>> >>>> > good
>>> >>>> > worth while so please put them here if you know.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > 2. If PICs are so popular, why are Motorola MCUs popular with auto
>>> >>>> > projects?
>>> >>>> > In terms of features aren't they on the same "level"?
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > 3. The way I see to learn microcontroller based EMS or ignition
>>> is to
>>> >>>> > look
>>> >>>> > at it piece by piece. Megasquirt is great but it's hard to learn a
>>> >>>> > complete
>>> >>>> > system. Aren't there any web sites (I've seen DIYEFI) that have
>>> info
>>> >>>> > on say
>>> >>>> > ignition control, RPM handling with an MCU or other basic control
>>> >>>> > concepts
>>> >>>> > that can form the basis for EMS/Ign. related projects. I'd like to
>>> >>>> > learn the
>>> >>>> > basics and if there are specific approaches to this, I'd like to
>>> hear
>>> >>>> > your
>>> >>>> > side of the story. It would be helpful.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Thanks and regards to all on the forum. Some projects here are
>>> really
>>> >>>> > nice
>>> >>>> > and inspiring.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Nik.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
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