[Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects

Tue Nov 6 00:17:37 UTC 2012

FreeEMS is no hobby, it's serious business ;-)

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:11 AM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the links. Regarding the part I only asked because it seemed
> expensive for diy/hobby. Regardless, it's a good one.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Fred Cooke <fred.cooke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, that's me! Fiji, eh, interesting! :-)  The FreeEMS project will
>> always have a strong Kiwi feel to it, but it's truly a global affair now,
>> with dev occurring or occurred in at least 8 countries so far, and 14+ very
>> different vehicles running/run in 5 countries.
>>
>> Another thing you could play with at the lower end of the scale is
>> SECU-3, a Russian project with maybe 50 users and a lead dev that
>> speaks/writes English reasonably well (rare there it seems). Links for that:
>>
>> http://forum.diyefi.org/viewforum.php?f=47 forum section
>> http://forum.diyefi.org/viewforum.php?f=51 English section
>> http://secu-3.org/?lang=en New site without any English content, old one
>> was fairly complete...
>>
>> I don't have time to explain MCU choice in detail, but the decision was
>> made nearly 5 years ago, before MS3 was publicly mentioned for the first
>> time, and came down to dev tool availability, peripherals, pin count, power
>> and temperature ratings, among other things. Other choices that appear
>> attractive aren't as good as they seem in many cases, even 5 years on.
>>
>> Fred.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 4:11 AM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, thanks for the link not that I might be able understand much of it.
>>> Should have never left SW back in tech school. I'm a RF guy (mobile comms)
>>> by the way. I was reading through some sites and came across a "Fred Cooke"
>>> at diyefi.org, so I'm assuming its you. Its so great to see a good
>>> quality, thorough project NZ. I live in Fiji b.t.w. Can you say why you
>>> chose the freescale part?
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards.
>>> Nikhil
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Fred Cooke <fred.cooke at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something simple to get started on, that Delco reminded me of, is
>>>> Jason Roughley's PIS software, check it out here:
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/Torture/PIS
>>>>
>>>> It's very basic and PW driven, but PW is his thing, he's not a VE fan
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Fred.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:47 PM, Bill Shaw <b.shaw at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> > Yes,  there's lots of info out there.  You will find more interesting
>>>> > reading at http://www.sae.org/.
>>>> >
>>>> > Slight subject change - I brought home a new(er) dd yesterday,  a 2010
>>>> > Camaro SS.  Sweet ride,  bad news is it's got a Bosch ecu!
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks for the e-book link.
>>>> >
>>>> > Bill
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 11/1/2012 6:03 PM, xyz Q wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Driving a vehicle that would have your own designed and built ecu
>>>> could feel
>>>> > like a 'mystical' experience, some what.
>>>> >
>>>> > We still run right, considering it was a major source of
>>>> transportation a
>>>> > 100+ years ago now its mostly for recreational.
>>>> >
>>>> > I just think there's so little info pertaining to ecu controls even
>>>> basic
>>>> > ones that probably its worth looking into.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Nov 2, 2012 8:40 AM, "David Allen" <davida1 at hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I always like microcontroller projects, have built some interesting
>>>> >> things, too. I was considering trying to build an ECU, but then I
>>>> realized
>>>> >> something.  For me; with my project goals, GM had already engineered
>>>> the
>>>> >> perfect ECU. It's so good that millions of them are out there on the
>>>> road
>>>> >> today. Every parameter is configurable and the hardware is
>>>> bulletproof. So I
>>>> >> went with a Delco 1227730 ECU, and focused my microcontroller
>>>> projects on
>>>> >> other areas.  I made projects for where there aren't off-the-shelf,
>>>> highly
>>>> >> cost-effective solutions already available.  I've built auto
>>>> headlights
>>>> >> controller, air-levelling suspension controllers, parts-washer
>>>> controller,
>>>> >> heat pump controller, speedometer calibration modules, and other
>>>> odds and
>>>> >> ends. But the Delco ECU is just too cheap, available, rugged, and
>>>> just plain
>>>> >> good at what it does to re-invent the wheel for an engine ECU. The
>>>> learning
>>>> >> curve was a little steep learning the tuning, because there is SO
>>>> MUCH in
>>>> >> the ECM program. But it was worth it in the end, because it's so
>>>> >> configurable.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This is just my OPINION and I hope you guys take it as that. Not
>>>> meaning
>>>> >> to discourage anyone. I wanted to tell about the end result of when
>>>> I went
>>>> >> down the same path and the final decision I came to.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Respectfully,
>>>> >> David
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> From: xyz Q
>>>> >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 3:26 PM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Microcontroller based Auto Related Projects
>>>> >>
>>>> >> All this is ok. But I'm thinking in order to get started, wouldn't
>>>> be be
>>>> >> good if some experts could hold some basic ruts on this forum. Let's
>>>> see
>>>> >> what some have to say, mainly very specific info eg., rpm counting,
>>>> etc,
>>>> >> etc... But I know time would be a big issue for many.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I downloaded some notes from Freescale on 68HC08 to introduce me to
>>>> >> Motorola MCUs. My only experience is with 80x86 MPU from back in tech
>>>> >> school.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Anyways, here's an offtopic link that some might find useful. It's
>>>> got
>>>> >> premium ebooks on just about every subject for free.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> www.freebookspot.es
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Nov 1, 2012 1:06 PM, "Alan To" <toalan at 14point7.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> For me 5v operation is a must have so to be able to work with the
>>>> widest
>>>> >>> range of sensors possible without additional burden of resistor
>>>> dividers.
>>>> >>> The MPC555x is a $30 uC, you are doing some high end stuff, for
>>>> high end
>>>> >>> stuff priorities are different, if you need to work with 5v sensors
>>>> the cost
>>>> >>> of 0.1% or better tolerance resistors or an external ADC is
>>>> probably not an
>>>> >>> issue. Originally we were talking about uCs in the same league as
>>>> the 8 bit
>>>> >>> PICs, AVRs, and perhaps as high as ARM Cortex M3/M4.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Regards
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Alan To
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 10/31/2012 5:41 AM, Bill Shaw wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The operating voltage is not a significant decision factor when
>>>> choosing
>>>> >>> an automotive microprocessor.  The MPC5554 we are using has a 1.3
>>>> volt core
>>>> >>> and 3.3 volt I/O.  It is an awesome  automotive microprocessor,
>>>>  but the
>>>> >>> array of peripherals and registers would be a bit daunting for the
>>>> >>> uninitiated.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Best,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Bill
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 10/31/2012 12:16 AM, Alan To wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> It is a 3.3v chip and you really want 5v operation for automotive.
>>>> The
>>>> >>> new Arduino Due will be a trainwreck, an epic one.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 10/30/2012 6:47 PM, xyz Q wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> There's an ARM based Arduino. What would you say about that for a
>>>> choice?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Oct 31, 2012 1:22 PM, "Avery Nisbet" <anisbet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> 1.  Most of the hack a day projects are by IT/computer sci guys
>>>> that
>>>> >>>> look down on getting their hands dirty with cars. If you look
>>>> deeply
>>>> >>>> at some of the projects they will have really shoty electrical
>>>> >>>> engineering in them. Some of them are pure hacks and would not
>>>> work in
>>>> >>>> a production sense.  Some are pretty decent.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> 2. Pics from an architecture point of view kinda suck. They were
>>>> not
>>>> >>>> designed for use with stack based compilers(One working register).
>>>> >>>> The Motorola stuff was some of the 1st used in the automotive
>>>> space.
>>>> >>>> The architecture lends itself to use with a compiler.  They are
>>>> >>>> designed for the harsher automotive environment.  Some will say
>>>> they
>>>> >>>> have nicer hardware peripherals.  I would say some of the
>>>> peripherals
>>>> >>>> were designed specifically for the automotive market. There is
>>>> also a
>>>> >>>> pretty big code base to look at.  Oh and mostly anyone who went to
>>>> >>>> school for software or hardware who is older than say 30 was
>>>> forced to
>>>> >>>> learn 6800(68HC11) or 68000 assembly language.  This usually
>>>> involved
>>>> >>>> getting ahold of the purple data books motorola gave away for free
>>>> >>>> that were well enough written so you could get your class work or
>>>> real
>>>> >>>> work done. I probably have 2 or 3 copies of the 68HC11 books laying
>>>> >>>> around somewhere. This being said there are many other options
>>>> today
>>>> >>>> and I would look to ARM or AVR before I looked at PIC.  ARM is
>>>> already
>>>> >>>> dominating the cheap 32bit market and is pretty easy to pick up.
>>>> This
>>>> >>>> will help in the job search later. AVR's are pretty good for the
>>>> 8bit
>>>> >>>> scene.  GCC supports them and ATMEL makes some automotive
>>>> environment
>>>> >>>> parts.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> 3.  Go get yourself an Arduino(or other uC of choice), BIP373(OR GM
>>>> >>>> ignition module) and some optoisolators.  Then build a distributor
>>>> >>>> and/or crank trigger based ignition system. Then try turning that
>>>> into
>>>> >>>> a full engine management solution using the peak and hold add in
>>>> board
>>>> >>>> by Jbperf. Start researching the mega squirt schematics at the
>>>> timing
>>>> >>>> input(tach) and the ignition output. Build those circuite on a
>>>> bread
>>>> >>>> board and test on a bench. Then move them on to your test engine.
>>>> It
>>>> >>>> could be a lawn mower engine or a V8 monster. Read up on timing
>>>> >>>> advance and program the Arduino to do a simple RPM only based
>>>> timing
>>>> >>>> curve.  Then add a MAP and/or TPS sensors and add load as a factor
>>>> of
>>>> >>>> your timing curve.  Then engine temp to add some cold start
>>>> advantages
>>>> >>>> and you have all the sensors needed to do open loop EFI.  After
>>>> adding
>>>> >>>> injectors you could add a wide band O2 sensor such as the LC-1 from
>>>> >>>> innovative motor sports or just a heated narrow band for cruze.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> -Avery
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:13 PM, xyz Q <xyzqhtc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> > Hi, I've been on the list for some time, on and off mainly
>>>> reading
>>>> >>>> > bits,
>>>> >>>> > trying to find some interesting ideas. Unfortunately I was 10
>>>> years
>>>> >>>> > too
>>>> >>>> > late, when this forum had been in its prime.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > So here are my first set of questions that I hope on getting some
>>>> >>>> > answers,
>>>> >>>> > hopefully.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > 1. Why are there so little auto related uc based projects and
>>>> ideas
>>>> >>>> > out
>>>> >>>> > there on the net? Look at hackaday.com, for example. Many
>>>> projects,
>>>> >>>> > talented
>>>> >>>> > people but all they do is prove a point that some thing can be
>>>> done.
>>>> >>>> > But
>>>> >>>> > guess what hardly something is really useful. I may have missed
>>>> some
>>>> >>>> > good
>>>> >>>> > worth while so please put them here if you know.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > 2. If PICs are so popular, why are Motorola MCUs popular with
>>>> auto
>>>> >>>> > projects?
>>>> >>>> > In terms of features aren't they on the same "level"?
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > 3. The way I see to learn microcontroller based EMS or ignition
>>>> is to
>>>> >>>> > look
>>>> >>>> > at it piece by piece. Megasquirt is great but it's hard to learn
>>>> a
>>>> >>>> > complete
>>>> >>>> > system. Aren't there any web sites (I've seen DIYEFI) that have
>>>> info
>>>> >>>> > on say
>>>> >>>> > ignition control, RPM handling with an MCU or other basic control
>>>> >>>> > concepts
>>>> >>>> > that can form the basis for EMS/Ign. related projects. I'd like
>>>> to
>>>> >>>> > learn the
>>>> >>>> > basics and if there are specific approaches to this, I'd like to
>>>> hear
>>>> >>>> > your
>>>> >>>> > side of the story. It would be helpful.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > Thanks and regards to all on the forum. Some projects here are
>>>> really
>>>> >>>> > nice
>>>> >>>> > and inspiring.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > Nik.
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>> > Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >>>> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >>>> > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>>> >
>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>>> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >>>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >>>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> ________________________________
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Diy_efi mailing list
>>>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Diy_efi mailing list
>>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Diy_efi mailing list
>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.diy-efi.org/pipermail/diy_efi/attachments/20121106/92564f2c/attachment-0001.html 