Scope pics...

[don.broadus at exeloncorp.com]

Obewahn : I feel a tremor in the list Bruce 
Bruce:    There is a lot of stubbornness in this one Gerald  
              Obewahn

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Gerald Pelnar [SMTP:wd0fyf at mpks.net]
> Sent:	Saturday, November 11, 2000 1:01 AM
> To:	gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Cc:	DIY-EFI
> Subject:	Re: Scope pics...
> 
> Hey Bruce--
> 
> I thought this was on DIY instead of GMECM.
> 
> Anyway, you have put forth a very good explanation. The only
> problem I see, which may be a sticking point, is your use of A/C
> rather than a more accurate discription of varying DC. AC
> implies the current alternates (changes direction) which it doesn't,
> except for some of the ocillations after the spark extinguishes, where
> the voltage may drop below zero.
> 
> Gerald Pelnar
> wd0fyf at mpks.net
> http://www.mpks.net/homepage/wd0fyf/
> McPherson, KS
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp at bright.net>
> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:38 PM
> Subject: Fw: Scope pics...
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > Thanks Shannen
> > If ya all (who are still interested), look at this, maybe we can get
> > somewhere.
> >
> >  http://www.aeswave.com/framedcatalog/product_0112sec.htm#accessories
> >
> > Starting at the left edge:
> >
> > Is a *12* volt signal,  then we have the points close signal (note there
> are
> > coil condenser oscillations {ie A/C}), As the coil saturates you see the
> > voltage build, then the point open signal a huge vertical spike, note
> that
> > the are some *notches* *steps* as the voltage is at or near the max
> voltage,
> > these are the coil oscillations of the *ringing of the collapsing*
> fields,
> > *typically* this spike is around 25Kv, and is when the ionization is
> forming
> > between the electrodes, finally there is an arc over, and the *firing
> line*
> > reflects that with a horizontial segment (again typ. 12 Kv), that can
> vary
> > (at idle) from .7 to 1.8 msec. that is the time where there is an
> > established arc.  Once there is no longer enough *ions* between the
> > electrodes, the voltage is no longer high enough to maintain an arc and
> the
> > arc stops, and there is the large drop to 0 and even slightly less.
> But,
> > there is the current that was shut off still ringing in the system
> remember
> > the points are still open so there is still energy to disipate,  we ran
> out
> > of ions for a 12Kv path so we have 11.5Kv (about) that will have to
> > disipate, and then we have the large coil condneser oscillations.  Then
> we
> > go off screen, and would again begin at the l/h border, and begin the
> cycle
> > all over again.
> >    Other then at the + side of the coil everything else is voltages from
> the
> > collapsing fields weither charging or discharging,  the coil, A/C
> >
> > Take a transformer,
> >    Put a meter across  the secondary posts,
> >    Apply power to the primary,  secondary pegs for an instant, then goes
> 0,
> > with the primary is still on, remove primary voltage another spike,
> again
> > output goes to 0.   Transformers don't work on a strickly DC component,
> > That's the best I can do.
> > Slice it anyway you want but that is the only circumstance that explains
> all
> > the conditions for a Waste spark.   IE one plug, can fire reguardless of
> the
> > is going on with the other.
> >
> > Take a convention autotransformer with a point open signal the one side
> of
> > the secondary is only to 12+ thru the primary.   Since one side of the
> > secondary is open to ground I guess the plug never fires.
> >
> > You check for spark with a grounded tester so that there is some control
> of
> > spark energy.
> > Opening both sides of a secondary side of ignition coil will force then
> > spark energy to disipate somewhere, and that is what ever is the path of
> > least resistance.   If the points are open the A/C will just ride along
> the
> > 12+ supply side just fine.   Well til the capacidance (?) of the battery
> > *absorbs* it...
> >
> > HTH
> > Bruce
> >
> >
> >
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