Scope pics...

Tue Nov 14 14:40:58 GMT 2000

it's either the arc master or arc starter page  the guy is awesome.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp at bright.net]
> Sent:	Monday, November 13, 2000 8:06 PM
> To:	gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject:	Re: Scope pics...
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard of a guy over one one of the sister  lists here, that has a
> power
> pole tranformer hooked up as a tesla coil.
>   Doc really wants to see it in action
> Bruce
> 
> 
> > Yep, i shudda listened to my first instinct to shut up.
> > then after more reflection...I still shudda shut up.
> > Still more reflection on the resemblence of an
> > ignition coil to a Tesla coil, yeah---fed with a
> > high freqUENCY SOURCE --THIS COULD WORK!!
> >
> >
> > (please disregaurd any futher blithering--off the deep end)
> > Gerald
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <don.broadus at exeloncorp.com>
> > To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 7:55 AM
> > Subject: RE: Scope pics...
> >
> >
> > > Obewahn : I feel a tremor in the list Bruce
> > > Bruce:    There is a lot of stubbornness in this one Gerald
> > >               Obewahn
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Gerald Pelnar [SMTP:wd0fyf at mpks.net]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 1:01 AM
> > > > To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> > > > Cc: DIY-EFI
> > > > Subject: Re: Scope pics...
> > > >
> > > > Hey Bruce--
> > > >
> > > > I thought this was on DIY instead of GMECM.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, you have put forth a very good explanation. The only
> > > > problem I see, which may be a sticking point, is your use of A/C
> > > > rather than a more accurate discription of varying DC. AC
> > > > implies the current alternates (changes direction) which it doesn't,
> > > > except for some of the ocillations after the spark extinguishes,
> where
> > > > the voltage may drop below zero.
> > > >
> > > > Gerald Pelnar
> > > > wd0fyf at mpks.net
> > > > http://www.mpks.net/homepage/wd0fyf/
> > > > McPherson, KS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp at bright.net>
> > > > To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:38 PM
> > > > Subject: Fw: Scope pics...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Shannen
> > > > > If ya all (who are still interested), look at this, maybe we can
> get
> > > > > somewhere.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> http://www.aeswave.com/framedcatalog/product_0112sec.htm#accessories
> > > > >
> > > > > Starting at the left edge:
> > > > >
> > > > > Is a *12* volt signal,  then we have the points close signal (note
> > there
> > > > are
> > > > > coil condenser oscillations {ie A/C}), As the coil saturates you
> see
> > the
> > > > > voltage build, then the point open signal a huge vertical spike,
> note
> > > > that
> > > > > the are some *notches* *steps* as the voltage is at or near the
> max
> > > > voltage,
> > > > > these are the coil oscillations of the *ringing of the collapsing*
> > > > fields,
> > > > > *typically* this spike is around 25Kv, and is when the ionization
> is
> > > > forming
> > > > > between the electrodes, finally there is an arc over, and the
> *firing
> > > > line*
> > > > > reflects that with a horizontial segment (again typ. 12 Kv), that
> can
> > > > vary
> > > > > (at idle) from .7 to 1.8 msec. that is the time where there is an
> > > > > established arc.  Once there is no longer enough *ions* between
> the
> > > > > electrodes, the voltage is no longer high enough to maintain an
> arc
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > arc stops, and there is the large drop to 0 and even slightly
> less.
> > > > But,
> > > > > there is the current that was shut off still ringing in the system
> > > > remember
> > > > > the points are still open so there is still energy to disipate,
> we
> > ran
> > > > out
> > > > > of ions for a 12Kv path so we have 11.5Kv (about) that will have
> to
> > > > > disipate, and then we have the large coil condneser oscillations.
> > Then
> > > > we
> > > > > go off screen, and would again begin at the l/h border, and begin
> the
> > > > cycle
> > > > > all over again.
> > > > >    Other then at the + side of the coil everything else is
> voltages
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > collapsing fields weither charging or discharging,  the coil, A/C
> > > > >
> > > > > Take a transformer,
> > > > >    Put a meter across  the secondary posts,
> > > > >    Apply power to the primary,  secondary pegs for an instant,
> then
> > goes
> > > > 0,
> > > > > with the primary is still on, remove primary voltage another
> spike,
> > > > again
> > > > > output goes to 0.   Transformers don't work on a strickly DC
> > component,
> > > > > That's the best I can do.
> > > > > Slice it anyway you want but that is the only circumstance that
> > explains
> > > > all
> > > > > the conditions for a Waste spark.   IE one plug, can fire
> reguardless
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > is going on with the other.
> > > > >
> > > > > Take a convention autotransformer with a point open signal the one
> > side
> > > > of
> > > > > the secondary is only to 12+ thru the primary.   Since one side of
> the
> > > > > secondary is open to ground I guess the plug never fires.
> > > > >
> > > > > You check for spark with a grounded tester so that there is some
> > control
> > > > of
> > > > > spark energy.
> > > > > Opening both sides of a secondary side of ignition coil will force
> > then
> > > > > spark energy to disipate somewhere, and that is what ever is the
> path
> > of
> > > > > least resistance.   If the points are open the A/C will just ride
> > along
> > > > the
> > > > > 12+ supply side just fine.   Well til the capacidance (?) of the
> > battery
> > > > > *absorbs* it...
> > > > >
> > > > > HTH
> > > > > Bruce
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> >
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