Question about WOT table in $8D bin

[timsiford at hushmail.com]

EdmOnd,

The stock curves do NOT suck.  I ran 12.5's at 108mph with the stock fuel 
curves and a fully upgraded TPI intake (heads, cam, converter).  I only 
changed the fuel curves when I switched to the MiniRam due to the fact that 
the VEs were seriously off with the addition of the MiniRam.  As Bruce pointed 
out ... the point here is to not be misleading.  If you want to view my 
fuel curves ... fine.  But, I can pretty much guarantee you that you'll 
dial in your calibration quicker when working from the stock fuel curve 
as compared to my fuel curve.  Also - your point about the ZZ4 chip is not 
relevant ... we are only talking about VEs here.  Not the implementation 
of the entire chip's parameters.

Tim


At Fri, 17 Nov 2000 11:48:02 -0800, "NRGZ28" <euro at lvcm.com> wrote:

>
>Stock curves suck...    I used the curves from a chip designed for a 
>ZZ4 and
>I gained almost 4 tenths and 4 miles per hour in the 1/4 mile. Oh well... 
>I
>guess I'll just play with I got. Thanx anyway
>
>p.s. it's Edmond by the way
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <timsiford at hushmail.com>
>To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 11:10 AM
>Subject: Re: Question about WOT table in $8D bin
>
>
>| Edmund,
>|
>| Using my base curves would not be advised.  I recommend beginning 
>with a
>| stock base curve.  Why you ask?  My MiniRam intake, AFR heads, bigger
>exhaust,
>|  and 112LSA make my VE curves significantly different from stock ... 
>MUCH
>| more so than yours.  Your curves will be more similar to the stock 
>curves
>| due to the intake style, the heads, and the exhaust that you are running.
>|  Not just pulling a 'not sharing' on this one.  You REALLY will be 
>closer
>| to the stock curves than my curves.
>|
>| Tim
>|
>| At Fri, 17 Nov 2000 10:07:07 -0800, "NRGZ28" <euro at lvcm.com> wrote:
>|
>| >
>| >Tim, would you be so kind to show what your VE (ext) table values 
>are
>| >from
>| >90-100 kpa ? I got the same cam as you and I'd to at least get a 
>base
>| >to
>| >start from when I tune for WOT.
>| >
>| >----- Original Message -----
>| >From: <timsiford at hushmail.com>
>| >To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>| >Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 7:02 AM
>| >Subject: Re: Question about WOT table in $8D bin
>| >
>| >
>| >> Bob,
>| >>
>| >> Using the equation that you extracted from the ANHT hac and plugging
>| >in
>| >> my values for 5600RPMs and 80deg C I get ...
>| >> 6553.6 / ((149 + 58 + 128) * 445) / 256) = 11.25
>| >>
>| >> HOORAY!!!!  This is exactly what diacom reports for my setup in 
>this
>| >range.
>| >>  This is definitely the formula to utilize.  NEWBIE NOTE: the value
>| >149
>| >> was retrieved through a hex editor (Hex Workshop).  Simply using 
>the
>| >values
>| >> in TC will not work.
>| >>
>| >> Tim
>| >>
>| >>
>| >> At Thu, 16 Nov 2000 17:46:00 -0500, rr <RRauscher at nni.com> wrote:
>| >>
>| >> >
>| >> >
>| >> >Umm, I just checked the anht hac, and I can't get the equation 
>quoted
>| >> >below to give me the same answers as the code.
>| >> >
>| >> >Using tables L860D & L8617 @ 80c & 6400rpm, I get an AFR of
>| >> >11.6:1. Here is the equation using the raw bin values:
>| >> >
>| >> >WOT AFR = 6553.6 / ((TBL L8617 + TBL L860D + 128) * 445) / 256)
>| >> >
>| >> >w/vals:
>| >> >
>| >> >11.6 = 6553.6 / ((138 + 58 + 128) * 445) / 256)
>| >> >
>| >> >This is right from the hac and matches the code (I corrected the
>| >one
>| >> >table
>| >> >address in the equation). What are the AFR's when using this equation?
>| >> >
>| >> >Thanks,
>| >> >
>| >> >BobR.
>| >> >
>| >> >
>| >> >JN wrote:
>| >> >
>| >> >> Wow, in looking at my bin that was modified by a reputable tuner
>| >originally,
>| >> >> he has what I calc as a 14.12 AFR at 5200 and a 14.85 at 5600!
>| > I
>| >> >guess with
>| >> >> the miniram I should fatten these up some.  Tim, what do you 
>have
>| >> >for PE vs
>| >> >> RPM.  Our motors are similar cams, intake and we both run 30 
>pound
>| >> >injectors
>| >> >> with a 33 pound injector constant.
>| >> >>
>| >> >> Jason
>| >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>| >> >> From: <timsiford at hushmail.com>
>| >> >> To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
>| >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 4:04 PM
>| >> >> Subject: Re: Question about WOT table in $8D bin
>| >> >>
>| >> >> > Bruce,
>| >> >> >
>| >> >> > I don't think its as bad as what you are saying.  Please -
> hear
>| >> >me out.
>| >> >> >  I said that the calculation shows that I am running 10.16 
>AFR.
>| >> > This was
>| >> >> > at 5600rpms and a coolant temp of 80deg C.  HOWEVER, the stock
>| >AUJP
>| >> >bin
>| >> >> > has a PE modifier of 7.8 at 4000rpms in WOT %Change in AFR 
>vs
>| >RPM
>| >> >and a
>| >> >> > modifier of 22.7 in WOT %Change in AFR vs Coolant.  This results
>| >> >in a
>| >> >> 10.22
>| >> >> > AFR.
>| >> >> >
>| >> >> > Now, I am NOT running 10.16 everywhere.  I just picked the 
>highest
>| >> >point
>| >> >> > of the curve and reported that point.  I also picked the highest
>| >> >point of
>| >> >> > the AUJP curve and reported that.  Again, the formula I am 
>using
>| >> >is the
>| >> >> > one previously supplied here on the list ....
>| >> >> >
>| >> >> > ( 1  -  (( RPM Mod  +  Coolant Mod )  /  100 )  *  14.7
>| >> >> >
>| >> >> > I am not concerned about the fueling.  I am close to 128 at 
>all
>| >> >points
>| >> >> when
>| >> >> > driving.  I spent significant time on the VE curves.  The 
>WOT
>| >%Change
>| >> >to
>| >> >> > AFR tables are modified from stock ... but, no so much in 
>the
>| >levels
>| >> >but
>| >> >> > more as to the shape.  The MiniRam doesn't need as much fuel
>| >at
>| >> >4000RPMs
>| >> >> > as compared to the TPI.  However, it does need more at 5600rpms.
>| >> >> >
>| >> >> > Tim
>| >> >> >
>| >> >> > At Wed, 15 Nov 2000 12:28:20 -0500, "Bruce Plecan"
>| ><nacelp at bright.net>
>| >> >> wrote:
>| >> >> >
>| >> >> > >
>| >> >> > >
>| >> >> > >IMO,
>| >> >> > >Your running a diesel now.
>| >> >> > >You have enough fuel that your CR is even up.
>| >> >> > >At tear down the ring lands will be knocked out and you'll 
>need
>| >> >pistons.
>| >> >> > >Just about beat you have a 160d and within one heat range 
>of
>| >stock
>| >> >plugs.
>| >> >> > >The tip of the plug is acting like a glow plug for lighting
>| >the
>| >> >change.
>| >> >> > >It kinda a typical thing when your at more fuel more timing
>| >agenda
>| >> >stuff,
>| >> >> > >just some guys go that route wastes gas, and tough on parts
>| >IMO.
>| >> >> > >No telling what the heads will be like, if (oem) iron probably
>| >> >cracked
>| >> >> > >between the seats.
>| >> >> > >Also, will have more carbon to deal with and more likely 
>to
>| >burn
>| >> >an
>| >> >> > >exhuast
>| >> >> > >valve.
>| >> >> > >It's like doing a nitro tune but with gas, eats parts
>| >> >> > >Bruce
>| >> >> > >
>| >> >> > >
>| >> >> > >> >Just remember you said that <g>
>| >> >> > >>
>| >> >> > >> I'll remember Bruce <g>.  But, I'm not a fluke.  I've talked
>| >> >to several
>| >> >> > >> other AFR190/MiniRam ownders that are running the same 
>type
>| >of
>| >> >spark
>| >> >> > >advance
>| >> >> > >> (max).  Now sure about the Air/Fuel ratio they are running
>| >though.
>| >> >> > > Will
>| >> >> > >> be pulling plugs soon to take a gander.
>| >> >> > >>
>| >> >> > >> Curious though .... I have a feeling that you think I'm 
>gonna
>| >> >blow
>| >> >> > >myself
>| >> >> > >> up :-)  Can I pick your mind and ask why?  I know that 
>I will
>| >> >> eventually
>| >> >> > >> lose the bottom end ... but, I don't think that it will 
>be
>| >PROM
>| >> >> related.
>| >> >> > >>
>| >> >> > >> Tim
>| >> >
>| >> >--------------------------------------------------------------
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>| >> >
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