2.5L Iron Duke MPFI conversion.

[Joe Scruggs]

I'm playing catch-up with the group and I have a little input on this thread
because of the death of Smokey Yunick this past weekend.  In the early
'80's, Smokey was doing research on what he called the "Hot Air Engine".  It
was the kind of work that a group like this would really appreciate.  I'll
save the discussion of his technique later, but engine that he used in his
research and fabrication was no other than the Iron Duke (151 cid) is
relevant.  He chose the Iron Duke made by Pontiac because he wanted to use a
4-cylinder engine and, although not widely known, the Iron Duke was the most
successful engine in automotive racing history (at the time).  I don't know
where he got his information, but he is (was) one of the most respected
engine builders and have no reason to question his facts.

Also, there is some confustion about the 301 and it's history.  From what I
understand, the Iron Duke was the basis of it - not the other way around.
Pontiac liked the success of the Iron Duke and they believed they could make
an awesome V-8 by simply doubling it.  They weren't modifying a Pontiac 350,
but a 151 (yes, the math works out that it should be a 302, but I suppose
that Ford and Chevy already had a 302, so they called it a 301).

This engine might be a very good engine to play around with for efi
projects, especially if you wanted to run a turbo.

Incidently, I owned a '79 301-4V in a Firebird with a 4-speed and had much
fun.  I outran many a Camaro with a 350 and auto trans.  I still have one
sitting on an engine stand.

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Len Sabatine" <sabatine at epix.net>
To: <gmecm at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: 2.5L Iron Duke MPFI conversion.


>      Weeell , A 301 Pontiac was a VERY Scaled down 350 Pontiac V8 with
>      strange paired off Siamese ports , a Qjet with secondaries cast shut
>      non counterweighted crank, thin wall cast block, etc. They offered a
>      Turbo Version , that at least ran somewhat like a V8. [ Late 70's ].
>      Loosley put, one could call the Iron Duke [ 2.5] 1/2 of a 301 by the
math.
>      Size for size the 2.5 Cylinder head was better than the 301 V8.
>      [Tech 4 ] designation went with EFI,  and an improved  design Head .
>      Back in the 60's , Pontiac had a slant 4 in a Tempest , that design
> may have
>      been closer to it's V8 brethren of that time period. [ In
comparison ]
>      Bottom line, the 301 and Iron Duke  weren't derived from the same
sheet of
>      paper IMO.
>
>      Len
>
> >We're probably getting OT here, but I was of the impression that the
> >"Iron Duke", "Tech 4", or whatever else you want to call it, was a "true"
> >Pontiac motor.  The way I had understood the story, in the 70s, Pontiac
> >made a 4-cylinder and 8-cylinder version of essentially the same motor.
> >The V-8 was the 301 CID, the 4-banger was the Iron Duke.  Not true?
> >
> >  On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Len Sabatine wrote:
> >
> > >      Tracing the design to the beginning . '62 Chevy II,  as 153 CID.[
> > > 3.875 x 3.250 ]
> > >      non x flow head. When Pontiac took it over it became  151
ID[ 4.00 x
> > > 3.00] .
> > >      The 153 was popular in a Midget class with a ? Sesco Head.
> > >      Len
> > >
> > > >69 is the earliest that I know of, when it was installed in Novas.  I
> > > >don't know if
> > > >it was used prior to that, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it
was.
> > > >
> > > >Shannen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >ae2598 at wayne.edu wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > How long as the Iron Duke been around?  I thought it was first
built
> > > > > around '75/'76..
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Shannen Durphey wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ihe intake and exhaust on the real iron duke (from 60's and
70's)
> > was
> > > > on the same
> > > > > > side.  Later 2.5l engines used a cross flow head.  The intake is
on
> > > > the right (rear
> > > > > > in FWD apps) and exhaust on the left.
> > > > > > But the engines are tbi.
> > > > > > Shannen
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
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