[Gmecm] Ridiculous MAF MAP responses.

[David Cooley]

And on top of Jay's response, I can tell you first hand about leeches trying
to profit off people's ideas.
I had built an electronic boost controller for buick GN's that could be
adapted to any turbo vehicle with an electronic bleed solenoid for boost
control, or used with the GN solenoid to add control to any vehicle.  I had
hours and housr of time determining the proper frequency, pulsewidth etc to
control boost without causing a spike, or having boost climb too slowly to
be useful etc.  Box and parts were about 20 bucks worth once the design was
finalized.  I was building them for people and only charging for the cost of
the parts and housing, and even supplied the proper weatherpack connectors
so it was a direct plug in.
Some prick bought one, copied the schematic and started selling them for 75
bucks and advertising everywhere GN owners freq	uented, and even sold one to
a good friend that I had built one for... He thought it sounded familiar so
he bought one and compared them... Let me know what the ass was doing.  When
I confronted the jerk, he threatened me with bodily harm.  I referenced my
original messages showing dates I had designed and built (long before he
started selling) sent copies of my schematic and his to compare how exact
his were to mine to show it was copied, and even retained the services of an
attorney.  The jerk eventually quit, but the frustration of it all left a
very sore spot... Hence when you ask "How do I do this to make a 100 dollar
unit" you asked for all the grief you received. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:gmecm-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jay Vessels
> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 9:30 AM
> To: gmecm at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Gmecm] Ridiculous MAF MAP responses.
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> I've answered this sort-of out of order, so bear with me.
> 
>  > I am just
>  > appalled at the responses I have gotten from other members.
> 
> I'm not surprised at the response when you mentioned money, 
> and I'm not surprised at your reaction.  Here's the deal:  
> Many people on this list have been burned because their hard 
> work was exploited by someone else for profit.  There are a 
> LOT of people on this list that have put a LOT of time 
> researching, experimenting, and studying these systems and 
> the wealth of the collective knowledge here (both on the list 
> and in the
> archives) is staggering.  People feel slighted when someone 
> farms the list of information and uses that to make money.  
> Is it okay to make money working on GMECM stuff?  Yes.  Is it 
> okay to use knowledge gained from this list?  Sure, but don't 
> forget to give back what you learn outside of the list.
> 
> Take your MAP->MAF translator idea.  You've gotten a mix of 
> responses. 
> Take that, mix it with some reading of the archives (pay 
> attention to how MAF systems work, and how MAP systems work), 
> come back with some questions to clarify points you may not 
> get the first time, and then:
> 
> Take some data.  Model it on your PC.  Build something.  Try 
> it.  Post the results.
> 
> Hook a MAP sensor up to your car and hitch it to your laptop. 
>  Gather a big pile of data from the ECM and your MAP sensor, 
> stuff it into a spreadsheet, and see if you can figure out a 
> relationship given the information you have on how GM MAF and 
> MAP systems work.  Write up a piece of code (in Matlab, 
> Excel, C, whatever) to test your theory.  Get more data and 
> see if it fits.
> 
> Show the list your work -- you'll get a lot more constructive 
> feedback when you show "Here's what I've been doing and this 
> is what I think is happening" rather than "Tell me everything 
> I need to know".
> 
> It's a lot of work but I think it will be worth it.  It's 
> also the only way you'll get your MAP->MAF box working.
> 
>  >My original intent to charge $100 bucks was to be
> > a fully assembled conversion kit. 
> 
> This is not meant to discourage starting a small business, but:
> 
> Buying the parts, programming the ROM(s), assembling the 
> kits, writing and printing the documentation, testing, 
> shipping, and handing tech support calls and warranty 
> concerns is not cheap.  "I can build this all myself" may 
> well be true but if you add up your time per box divided into 
> the cash left just after parts procurement, and you're better 
> off mowing lawns.  Add in the additional time for tech 
> support (and people will have questions), warranty concerns 
> ("You sent me a junk box!  I want another one or my money 
> back!  If you don't I'll sue!"), and you have to really 
> *want* to do it as it's a charity case.
> 
> Oh yeah, the lawyers.  What happens if somebody wrecks their 
> car and decides it's because your box failed?  True or not, 
> welcome to legal hell.  It's mind-boggling how much THAT will 
> cost, but I'd wager you'll spend a good $100k defending yourself ONCE.
> 
> Which is why you need to indemnify yourself, and one way to 
> do that is have your device manufactured by a local company.  
> They'll want a guaranteed minimum order (probably in the 
> hundreds of units) so you'll have to front some money.
> 
> It's cool to try to build something that people want, 
> perusing a hobby and making money at it.  It's possible to 
> do, and done right you can turn it into a strong business.  I 
> just want to make sure you consider all the potential 
> pitfalls, and have a plan to dodge them.
> 
> Building and selling electronics is not as simple as, say, 
> selling a custom bracket or pretty add-on.  The electrical 
> system in an automobile is a very harsh environment.  If you 
> don't have a plan to handle ESD, RFI, reversed polarity, and 
> hard shorts to ground and power then your design needs 
> rework.  If you don't know what the term "alternator load 
> dump" means or how to handle it, you've got more reading to do.
> 
> An example of an automobile electronics project that went 
> right (at least, from an outsider-looking-in view) is the 
> DIY-WB project.  I'm sure those guys can tell you a lot more 
> than I can about successfully pulling off a small-quantity 
> auto electronics project for the masses.
> 
> Jay Vessels
> 1982 Chevrolet S-10 Sport, 2.8V6 TBI
> 1984 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer Sport, 2.8V6 carb. (for now) 
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